USE ANY PIECE OF THIS YOU LIKE. chomskysright
May 9, 2005
Hello Baptist Press people and in particular, Reverend Waylan Owens:
I come from a God-fearing family, a long, long line of Baptists. My mother is the salt of the earth and a saint. Ditto for all the people in my background: simple folk.
That being said, I continue to be appalled, disappointed, and horrified at the bullying tactics that you cannot seem to resist. Now, it is expanded, in Mr. Owens article, to spinning the information which is simply an attempt to hem-haw and dance on the head of a pin.
I believe that many Americans would like for the Baptists to stop politicizing their churches. Concerned people, and there are many, are not targeting the Baptists. The Catholics, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, ALL need to stop this practice. You are not being singled out.
Here's your letter, Mr. Owens and I have rebutted it utilizing references from ews reports and law firms (SoftMoneyHardLaw) which support the efforts of 501c3 entities.
I am disappointed that you have resorted to hearsay, frankly, as per the below article. And I also find demeaning and offensive your condescending tone as per the below.
FIRST-PERSON: Is there more to the N.C. church story?
Monday, May 9, 2005
By Waylan Owens ( Baptist Press)
WAKE FOREST, N.C. (BP)--Chan Chandler is one of my students. You may have heard of him. He is the pastor of the East Waynesville Baptist Church in Waynesville, N.C. According to the Associated Press, Chan ousted all the members of the church who would not support George W. Bush in the 2004 presidential election.
Another, more descriptive, local article: Ousted worshippers stand their ground on Mother's Day : by Andre A. Rodriguez, STAFF WRITER , published: May 9, 2005 6:00 am
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001Now, if that were true, that would be one sensational story. The real sensational story, though, has been the media’s frenzy over supposed evidence of the religious right’s imposition of a theocracy in America.
Undeniable evidence, across the board:
1: bill that would allow for pastors to say what they please w/o the church paying taxes for such partisan maneuvering:
http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h109-235 2.
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20050424/1026847.asp: Frist critics decry appeal to religion By HILARY ROXE Associated Press 4/24/2005
What a place for right-wing Christian radicals to begin, in a church of about 100 people in Waynesville, N.C., a community of about 9,200. What a time to start: nine members “ousted” seven months after the election because they would not vote for President Bush.
But what is the real story? The media has refused to do the work necessary to find out the truth.
Real news, real journalists, really there:
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050508/ap_on_re_us/church_politics&printer=1Dogging Chan, who understandably has refused to talk so far, the media has ignored all of the members of the church who actually did the voting. Why have we only heard from those voted out or from their supporters? Why are there no quotes from the members who said, "enough is enough?"
Why did Chan refuse to talk? He had plenty to say before:
"Sunday’s service “was the first sermon I’ve heard since October that politics wasn’t mentioned,” said Edith Nichols, a 29-year member of East Waynesville, who said she was voted out."
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001Many facts have gone unreported or obscured in the media’s efforts to scandalize a young minister who has taken a stand for biblical morality and the life of a baby resting in her mother’s womb.
You would have to have read closely to know that at least one of the members voted out of fellowship of the church is a self-confessed Republican.
Yes, and what did SHE have to say about all of this? :
“Our memberships were terminated because we did not agree to have a political church,” said Thelma Lowe, the lone Republican voted out. “I did not vote for Kerry.”
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001None of the media has seemed interested in the fact that perhaps a majority of the members doing the voting are registered Democrats.
So? Are you maligning the fact that they are Democrats?
Do you wonder how those nine had behaved during the seven months between Chan’s statement on John Kerry in October and last Monday evening? Have any reporters asked whether disunity and ongoing, uncharitable disruption in the church by this group of nine played any part in the final vote tally?
I assume you speculate that this 'disunity' had NOTHING to do with the pastor "sermons...with politics."
Does it tell us something that in spite of the Bible’s clear admonition not to take one another to court in 1 Corinthians 6, the nine’s first response was to go find a lawyer?
You admittedly lost me there. The pastor had an attorney; the people who were 'ousted' also had an attorney----both present in the service and who spoke to the press subsequent to church. If the Southern Baptists think it is un-Christian to have an attorney, then why did the pastor have one? :
"The pastor released a written statement through his attorney, John J. Pavey Jr.,"
http://www.citizen- times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS01/50508008/1001 Of note: I saw the attorney and so did the people of the church, speaking to the press subsequent to the service.
Is there more to this story, and is the media interested in finding it?
I keep waiting to read or to hear the fact that at the same time Chan called on members to repent for voting for John Kerry, he also called on members to repent if they had voted for two Republicans. I believe that October message was recorded.
When do you think the media will report that the core of Chan’s message was the very message of the Catholic Church and its new Pope who, before becoming Pope, wrote a paper calling for communion to be withheld from those who actively support abortion, presumably identifying Kerry clearly enough for even the media to understand it.
I grew up Baptist. Last time I checked, the Baptists never listened to anything the Catholics had to say and in fact talked about how they were 'going to hell'.
Now, Chan did not have the sophistication and public relations skills of a man about to become Pope. That may be one reason he has refused so far to open himself to the editing room of today’s media. But his message was the same. You cannot call yourself a member of a church that stands against abortion and then actively support abortion through your politics.
What a novel idea! Your life should match your religious profession. As we used to say when I was growing up, “You gotta walk the talk!” Imagine that, Christians living out with integrity what they claim to believe.
No one has a problem with Christians living their walk; indeed, I am grateful for people, like my mother, who pray for me. The problem occurs when they attempt to coerce others to replicate their 'religious profession.'
What is strange is that the media would not be sympathetic to Chan. After all, they are constantly reporting the lack of integrity among God’s people who claim to believe one way and then live another. Aren’t we all tired of the Christians, especially pastors and church leaders, who are caught in adultery and embezzlement and tax fraud each year? Wouldn’t we all like men who claim to preach the Word also call us to live the Word?
If Chan had taken my class before his October pronouncement about Kerry and the two Republicans, he would have heard my discouragement of naming names or political parties.
It sounds like you are saying that he was not educated 'enough' and that he is therefore 'guilty' of not functioning in a manner in keeping with a Baptist minister. And so why, Mr. Owens, was he allowed to administer to a congregation if he was not 'well enough' trained?
And while I am not certain that Chan violated any rules, I do teach my students to steer as wide a berth as possible in such matters, giving great respect to the law, even to IRS regulations.
That is undoubtedly important given the partisan nature of his preaching as associated with the Southern Baptist 501c3 status which precludes organizations from electioneering:
http://www.moresoftmoneyhardlaw.com/articles/20050223.cfm;However, since I believe that America should protect freedom of conscience and the right to speak freely in a religious pulpit, I am saddened that a young minister should be subject to such an inquisition for standing for biblical morality and the teachings of his church.
Then it appears that the Southern Baptists should pay taxes if they desire to act in this kind of partisan manner. : "The Internal Revenue Service exempts certain organizations from taxation including those organized and operated for religious purposes, provided that they do not engage in certain activities including involvement in “any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for public office.” Valerie Thornton, a spokeswoman for the Internal Revenue Service, said she could not comment on the East Waynesville situation, but said “in general if a church engages in partisan politics, it could put their tax-exempt status in jeopardy.”
http://www.citizen-times.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050507/NEWS01/50506036/1001That being said, we should not cower in fear before our government, but rather we should fear the Lord our God, and stand upon His word. Chan was not as diplomatic as he could have been, but his intended message is one we all should embrace, whatever our religious stripe. If you profess it, you should live it. If you believe it, your life should show it. Your religion should apply to, and impact, all areas of your life, or it is not a religion at all.
This is all fine if you are not engaged in electioneering, which appears to have been the case here.
Whether Jew or Muslim or Catholic or Protestant or whatever religion you hold -- even if you claim to be an atheist -- Chan’s exhortations should remind us all: Talk is cheap. Integrity demands that what we say and what we do should match.
--30--
Waylan Owens is vice president of planning and communications at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary in Wake Forest, NC. He also teaches a class in pastoral ministry.
And so, Mr. Owens, what kind of side-stepping is this?
Contrarily,
Christ said:
John 8:32
You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.
In my opinion, you are advocating mischevious phrasing and wording which leaves one scratching one's head, wondering, "now what did he mean by that?"
This was not an isolated incident in Waynesville. I witnessed it during my childhood, in the 1960's. Another pastor at another Baptist church in Waynesville testified that many of the local pastors had been 'preaching' to their flock to vote for Bush: "Pastor Robert Prince III of First Baptist Church of Waynesville said he was appalled to hear about the claims but noticed a lot of Southern Baptist ministers endorsing President Bush in November’s election.", Asheville Citizen-Times
Many, many people would testify to the politicization in which you have engaged.
My goodness, was not that big charade in Nashville with Senator Frist an attempt to maximize your
Here is yet another person talking about such, just a passing conversation on www.democraticunderground.com:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3626619 "My brother-in-law, before he passed, was a SO. Baptist music minister. He came right out and told me that Democrats aren't welcomed in his church.
I replied that I would want nothing to do with a church that doesn't teach Jesus' message. He and his kind can roll around in the mud while the rest of us continue to treat others with love and compassion the way Jesus did.
Overall, the fundamentalists, inclusive of yourselves as related to what you 'officially' state, are perceived as hatefully, maliciously attempting to destroy this democracy. Do you believe Christ would be pleased with that?
Please stop bullying us, manipulating us, telling half-truths, and in general, politicizing the churches. We wish to worship there. You wish to create some kind of beast that is of mamon, not of God.
Otherwise, the Southern Baptists should pay your taxes, Mr. Owens.
PRINT THIS, if you dare, Baptist Press.
Sincerely,
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