Gorbachev Calls Cuba A Victim Of Cold War Confrontations

[Say_What]

Based on Gorby's remarks and the conference on Cuba being held tomorrow in Coral Gables where he will be guest speaker, exile radio must be reaching new heights of hysteria.

As a bonus, he also made the statement that Iraq was a mistake--the Weasels in the White House can't be too happy about that :evilgrin:

<clips>

JACKSONVILLE, Florida (AP)--Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev came to the defense of Cuba, saying it was a Third World nation that fell victim to confrontations between the two super powers during the Cold War.

"Now that we have ended the Cold War, it's time to lift the embargo," he said Thursday during a forum at the University of North Florida.

Gorbachev is also to meet with government officials in Miami late Saturday concerning U.S. trade sanctions that were imposed against the Communist nation more than 40 years ago.

"If you look at all the pluses and minuses, you will see that they are all the result of the unique situation, the difficult situation in which Cuba was caught," said Gorbachev. "Nevertheless, the Cubans are a healthy nation, an educated nation with good potential."

<http://framehosting.dowjonesnews.com/sample/samplestory.asp?StoryID=2003100302220035&Take=1>

[Mika]

1. NINE hours..

.. and NO responses from DUers??!! :puke:

Maybe Dems like being oppressed?

[Osolomia]

3. More than 19 hours and nothing!

This thread is actually a dupe of an earlier one at
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=146022

Looks to me like the Dems are going to be caught with their pants down tomorrow looking like hypocritical morons on the world stage without an iota of a clue about what's actually going on in their own hemisphere and don't give a damn.

Can't get much more pathetic than still be standing with the extremist right wing minority in opposition to the bipartisan majority with the likes of Mikhail Gorbachev as keynote speaker bashing Bush!

SHAME on DUhers!

[joshcryer]

9. 2PM and 4AM. Nice timing.

C'mon. Threads drop. Other discussions get moved about. Doesn't mean people don't care or wouldn't like to be informed.

[joshcryer]

10. If you stop specifically bashing DUers, it might work.

Food for thought.

[Osolomia]

14. DUers who still don’t have the cojones to support the majority by now

And behave like ignorant puppets of Bush and the Batistianos instead, deserve all the criticism they can get for their complicity imho.

How the 2004 Dem presidential candidates and their supporters react to Noriega’s announcement on Cuba policy and Gorbachev’s speech about it tonight will be telling.

If you still can’t reconcile relations with your own neighbors then how are Dems going to do it with the rest of the world, huh?

Go ahead, choose to dwell on fantasy and ignore reality and see where that gets the party come election time.

[Mika]

23. Since when is decrying apathy considered bashing?

"If you stop specifically bashing DUers, it might work."

After being bashed repeatedly by DUers for being one of the "insane pro Cuba crowd" here, I find there is plenty of reason to decry (which is not bashing) the lack of responses to an important issue like our freedom to travel and the Miamicubano exile's impact on our democracy and economy. Its not like there's an information vacuum for those active enough to engage DU, so I don't understand the almost total disinterest in an important spoke in America's political wheel.


Josh, I'm sure that you'll post a similar comment to the DUers who bash the "insane pro Cuba crowd".. right? After all, the bashing against those of us in the "insane pro Cuba crowd" hasn't worked, but I rarely see posters admonishing those DUers who bash us. Silence is assent, or as Will Pitt so aptly put it - "The Greatest Sedition is Silence".

[joshcryer]

24. I found "like being oppressed" insulting, is all.

You guys accept non-replies as acts of complicity, in my opinion.

I can't see how this can be remotely true, it doesn't really follow. I don't reply to a lot of your posts, but I read quite a few of them. Other DUers have joined in your discussions, but they don't always participate (I can't name them off hand, but I'm sure their names would be as familiar as my own). Nah, I don't think non-responses are acts of complicity.

I just think you guys are left to your own devices for several reasons, first, these threads do have and will always lead to flamewars; so people stay away for that specific reason. And second, a lot of people, even though they're for pro-Cuba relations (and I guarantee you that quite a number of DUers are quite indeed for the lifting of sanctions), are still iffy on the issue of responding to a topic which could 'incriminate' them in the future (no matter how unfounded this belief is). Please don't interpret that the wrong way. I wouldn't respond to posts initially because I didn't want to be tagged a 'Castro lover' (I consider my ideological leanings anarchist, that 'associating with Castro' could quite well depreciate my very leanings from those with a less enlightened point of view. I don't care about my name being drug through the mud, mind you, but it complicates discussion when that's all people can hark on.)

I think you underestimate the number of people who are indeed for free travel and trade with Cuba, and I think that you misinterpret non-response as lack of action.

And yes, but I haven't seen "insane pro-Cuba crowd" posts very often, and when I do, you guys have effectively dessiminated their 'arguments,' so a response isn't usually even necessary. You have to understand that I defend their right to speak just as much as I defend yours, though; but I would quite make it clear that the facts are on your side.

(I read LBN almost exclusively though, I have no idea what goes on in GD or other forums; if such insults are made your way on a continual basis in those forums, then I'm sorry; I would certainly come into the discussions had I the time or energy.)

[Mika]

25. Josh, thanks

Thanks for taking the risk of being incriminated (:shrug:) by posting your opinions on the "Cuba threads" on DU.

Obviously, it takes a brave DUer to post on a "Cuba thread".

<sarcasm off>



"I think you underestimate the number of people who are indeed for free travel and trade with Cuba, and I think that you misinterpret non-response as lack of action."


No, Josh. I interpret our Dem party's lack of action on the normalization issue as Dem party lack of action.

This should be an issue of concern IF Dem party members considered that their opinions and voices should be represented - especially since a majority of Americans (not just Dems) support normalization w/Cuba.

Talk is cheap (except that anti Castro talk rakes in the campaign money for D's and R's from the so called "exiles'). Action speaks louder, and our Dem party has demonstrated little in the way of action.

[joshcryer]

26. Mika, you're welcome.

You're welcome that even with baseless insults I still stick around. :)

[Say_What]

27. Here's my opinion for what it's worth,

Remember that nifty little "# of times viewed" indicator that DU had for a short time on each thread? That confirmed what I've known for a long time--that many DUers read the Cuba threads but don't post for various reasons, which I tend to think is because they are now just learning some of the truth about the island and her people.

When the flamebaters show up and accuse anyone posting of being a Castro lover it's the form of intimidation and squelching of free speech that we've witnessed for decades in Miami--democracy--Miami style. Most times the main post or the responses have nothing to do with Castro. This is exactly what happens on Calle Ocho, in congress, or anywhere else where people who have enough cajones are speaking out and saying 'hey--this forty year failed policy obviously ain't working, we need to try something else'.

Folks should understand that people have been MURDERED, INTIMIDATED, BOMBED, political futures ruined, and free speech squelched because they dared to suggest dialog with the island. The anti-Cuba industry in FL, in addition to be very dangerous, is very lucrative--and ALL pols go there to PANDER for the crumbs they might throw into their campaign chest, but the ticket to the money is always the same--keep the embargo and strangle the Cuban economy more than it is already.

As for being tagged a Castro lover, well, all I can say to that is if he's good enough for Hugo Chavez, Lula, Nelson Mandela, and others around the planet then I guess I'm in good company ;-)

BTW, did you read Gorby's editorial in the WP? He blew the lid off of all the lies and who knows about Cuba better than him? Who would ever have thought that the former leader of the Soviet Union would be calling on an American pResident to "tear down that wall"? In my wildest dreams I could not have imagined that a former Soviet leader would be criticizing a US pResident of robbing the American people of their freedoms. Wow!! Keep an eye on the Cuba summit where Gorby is the keynote speaker tonight, history is being made.

Viva Cuba!!
Lee

[Mika]

29. In good company

"Folks should understand that people have been MURDERED, INTIMIDATED, BOMBED, political futures ruined, and free speech squelched because they dared to suggest dialog with the island."

That's what my sarcastic post to Josh was intimating.

Most people unfamiliar with Miami politics don't realize just how dangerous the anti Castro extremists are. Posting on a message board ain't shit compared to bravery of the participants in the pro democracy/ pro dialog debate here, many of whom are putting their lives and businesses at great risk by facing the Batistanos down on "exile" turf (Miami).

Here's to them - :toast:

[Judi Lynn]

39. Good points, Mika, as always

Concerning the courage of Miami Cubans who favor dialogue, and NO VIOLENCE, and no embargo, no travel ban: they're truly strong, determined people.

I've seen convincing photos and newspaper articles concerning the price some of them have been forced to pay for their moderate, civilized view points.

Because they are quiet, don't riot, and don't demand anything for themselves, unlike the others, Americans outside Miami usually don't even know they exist. Isn't that a shame?

[Judi Lynn]

40. Outstanding points brought to life in this post

Really appreciate your opening paragraph.

I'm painfully aware that it has been so easy to be totally in the dark about US-Cuban matters.

This is a subject you have to pursue on your own, it seems, as the NEWS BLACKOUT on all real information from Cuba, or other Latin American countries, even, (other than propaganda) certainly isn't going to help.

Can't wait to hear about Gorbachev's speech. Hope he makes it outta there in one piece!

[Osolomia]

43. It does not make any sense that DUers and their presidential candidates

are not going hog wild pulling the rug out from under Bush and the Batistiano “exiles” on this one with bipartisan majority world wide support while they have the chance.

Since an historic US trade fair in Havana last year 38 US STATES have sold about $200 million of their agricultural products to Cuba. They all want the trade embargo lifted.

Last March Bush tightened the travel restrictions on American-Americans and eliminated educational exchanges, but he threw the door wide open for Cuban-American “exiles” to travel to Cuba all they want and spend as much money there as they want and do whatever they want.

Last month a BIPARTISAN MAJORITY in the US House of Representatives voted to lift the travel ban against American-Americans going to Cuba. They all want the travel ban lifted now as the first step towards lifting the embargo.

Any week now, a BIPARTISAN MAJORITY in the US Senate is expected to vote to lift the travel ban against American-Americans going to Cuba.

But Bush has threatened to veto any easing of the travel ban or other sanctions against Cuba and instead has been unilaterally tightening them without much sign of any democratic opposition.

In fact, all the leading 2004 Democratic presidential candidates support the extremist minority who want to maintain the embargo and travel ban against American-Americans while allowing Cuba-Americans to freely travel and trade all they want.

If that’s not complicity with Bush’s Cuba policy then what is? And where’s the opposition to this complicity?

If DUers are afraid that supporting the overwhelming majority “could 'incriminate' them in the future” then I wonder what Gorbachev would have to say about that pathetic excuse, especially after speaking out in Florida no less!

What a shame seeing so many Dems making up so many hysterical excuses for avoiding taking a stand let alone any action on this issue when a golden opportunity is being handed to them on a silver platter.

TAKE DOWN THE WALL, NOW! Or forever hang your heads in shame.

[joshcryer]

45. Contridiction in your post;

If a bipartisen majority is going to vote to lift the sanctions, then clearly 'some' democrats are doing their job. So your comments about there being not "much sign of any democratic opposition," are quite clearly a fallacy.

[Osolomia]

49. Where does your favorite 2004 Democratic Presidential candidate stand?

And the other 10 contenders?

Sure as hell doesn't look like much opposition to Bush's Cuba policy to me when all the leading Dem candidates are still pandering to the extremist right wing minority and support maintaining the embargo and travel ban depite the wishes of the majority!

If it wasn't for the 22 House Democrats who voted against your freedom to travel last month it would have been a VETO PROOF bipartisan majority since 53 Republicans voted for it.

Clearly some democrats are NOT doing their job as expected!

[Judi Lynn]

47. Remarkable that 38 states have traded with Cuba in the LAST YEAR

Suddenly it's possible to get a clue about why _Bush has demanded that Americans can't participate in the current one, and no doubt he'll do the same next year.

Makes you wonder who the dictator is around here, doesn't it?

He and his crew are probably very interested in trying to surpress every possible transaction between all non-Miami-Cuban Americans and Cuba PERMANENTLY. He'd by god try to close it all down right now, if he thought he could get by with it.

The very idea that the Miami Cuban bloc is claiming "Mine, all mine" to all Cuba travel, and can get by with it, while Bush moves to block every possible form of American citizen travel to Cuba is so offensive, so UNDEMOCRATIC it should make people cringe.

[JoFerret]

2. Don't know about "Cuba"" but

...Cubans are definitely the victims.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

4. Is there a copy of the full speech anywhere?

(& is Gorbachov safe in Florida now?!)

Thanks if anyone can help.

[Say_What]

5. An article in the Jacksonville, FL buz journal

and watch the board tomorrow for a transcipt of his speech at the summit on Cuba. If there's a transcript someone will post it. I wasn't able to turn up any transcripts for today's speech at the University of North Florida where he appeared with Ronald Reagan's son Michael. Here's the Jacksonville Business Journal with a wee bit more info than this mornings article.

<clips>
Former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev kicked off his campaign for Cuba here Thursday night saying the small communist nation has a lot to offer in trade and tourism and should not remain shunned by the United States because of its Cold War alliances.

... "Now that we have ended the Cold War, it's time to lift the embargo," he said, concerning the U.S. trade sanctions imposed in the 1960s. "This regime is led by Fidel Castro, and I don't think we should demonize that person."

Gorbachev is scheduled to meet with various factions in Miami on Saturday to discuss the lifting of the embargo.

"If you look at all the pluses and minuses, you will see that they are all the result of the unique situation, the difficult situation in which Cuba was caught. Nevertheless, the Cubans are a healthy nation, an educated nation with good potential." He added that trade and tourism would be benefits to the U.S. economy.

http://www.bizjournals.com/jacksonville/stories/2003/09/29/daily31.html

On edit: You might also watch Reagan's website for information http://www.reagan.com/ he will probably interview Gorby after the summit this weekend.

[Osolomia]

16. The Last Wall By Mikhail Gorbachev

Article in today's Washington Post:

The Last Wall
By Mikhail Gorbachev
Washington Post
Saturday, October 4, 2003; Page A19

The changes that have occurred in the world in the past 20 years are truly remarkable. We have left behind the Cold War and the confrontation between two irreconcilable ideological systems. The symbol of divided Europe -- the Berlin Wall, which Ronald Reagan famously urged me to tear down in 1987 -- has long since been destroyed. But one relic of the Cold War remains: the wall of the economic embargo imposed by the United States on Cuba 43 years ago.

The lack of relations between the U.S. and Cuban governments, enshrined as it is in the U.S. policy of economic and diplomatic isolation of Cuba, has not allowed for an understanding that could benefit the citizens of both nations. The burden of the isolation of Cuba has been borne by ordinary people on both sides of the Florida Straits: the divided Cuban family.

That this situation is abnormal and that the embargo is counterproductive is increasingly recognized throughout the world and in the United States. The high-profile visit of Pope John Paul II symbolized the willingness of the world to open to Cuba and of Cuba to open to the world. Former President Jimmy Carter's trip to that country was a courageous and responsible step.

More..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A42248-2003Oct3.html

[Say_What]

17. Mr. Bush, tear down that wall!!

What a great article! A definite keeper and I think this summit will be a milestone in the undoing of the embargo and the Bushies. The entire planet has to be watching this just like they did when the Pope was there in 1998 and the Lewinsky scandal broke.

Thanks for posting.

On edit: Especially liked these remarks:

...Many other U.S. political leaders have spoken in favor of normalizing relations. Yet the U.S. government prohibits average Americans from even traveling to Cuba. While it calls for human rights in Cuba, the United States prevents its own citizens from sharing free enterprise, freedom of movement and free thinking with the Cuban people.

...An end to the embargo would complete the unfinished business of the Cold War in the Western Hemisphere. It is because of the Cold War that a country that saw an anti-dictatorial revolution, which had nothing to do with Communist ideology, became involved in the superpower confrontation. Isolated and belonging ideologically to the "socialist camp," its choice of the path of socioeconomic development became all but inevitable. And during the missile crisis Cuba nearly became the trigger for a nuclear war.

Yet it would be unfair to reduce Cuba's entire post-revolutionary history to that. The achievements of the Cuban people in education, health, science and the arts have been widely recognized. The Cubans withstood the consequences of the withdrawal of Soviet economic subsidies, and the country's economy has recently shown an 8 percent growth in gross domestic product. Cuba has pursued a responsible foreign policy, as I can confirm based on my own experience working with Fidel Castro to defuse regional crises in Central America and Africa.

[Judi Lynn]

20. This article is a work of art.

It's SO great hearing him read _Bush the riot act, knowing that everything he has said is totally true, and unassailable.

Glad to see it got published by the Washington Post. What could be more perfect?

It's startling to see this coming out now, as _Bush apparently think he OWNS Cuba's future, and has been so cocky about it, strutting for the Miami Cuban Mafia.

Hope it sobers the dimished capacity in the White House up.

It was a true MOMENT IN MESSAGE BOARDS reading that article, Osolomia. Woo Hoooo.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

21. Thank you very much for posting that

An excellent article. Thanks also too 'Say_What' for the other links.

[Judi Lynn]

6. Just stepped in to say that Larry Johnson, ex-CIA agent

said, on Aaron Brown's Newsnight show on CNN, 10:00 p.m., EST., that the Bush administration went after the senior CIA official who tried to block them from having State Department blowhard, John Bolton announce in a speech that Cuba is a biological weapons threat!

He was there to speak on the Bush staff going after the wife of Joe Wilson to bring that couple some grief, and he said that they have done this before, and cited the example of their intention to plant the bogus Cuban biological weapons story (right before Jimmy Carter went to Cuba) and how they attempted to bring harm to the CIA guy who attempted to stop them.

There should be more to explain this at some later time, I would think.

For anyone who's interested, I think the Aaron Brown show on CNN repeats later tonight.

Damned nasty people in the _Bush collection of knowledgeable professionals. @$$####$.

[Say_What]

12. Just checked for a transcript and it's not up yet

here's the link in case anyone is interested.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/asb.html

Wow. Looks like everything is beginning to unravel at once for the Bushies. And Gorby said that Iraq was a mistake and that the embargo should be lifted. Exile radio has to be in hyper hysteria mode.

:bounce: :bounce: :bounce:

[Say_What]

13. Transcript

Here's the remarks on Cuba:

<clips>

JOHNSON: Yes, Aaron, what is going on, there is an element within the Bush administration that believes that the CIA has been undermining the president's policy.

And for that reason, in my judgment, they launched this attack on Joe Wilson by mentioning his wife's name to try to suggest, imply, impugn the motives of the CIA people who sent Joe Wilson overseas. They refused to deal with the fact that it's not only Ambassador Wilson who was unable to corroborate the intelligence report about the yellowcake uranium being sold to Iraq, but the U.S. ambassador to Niger, a Bush appointee, as well as a Marine Corps general attached to one of the major U.S. military commands.

So instead of dealing with that issue, they've launched this partisan attack. And, unfortunately, this has been a pattern of behavior for this administration by these elements. For example, they launched a similar attack against the national intelligence officer for Latin America when he refused to allow secretary -- Undersecretary Bolton at the State Department to go testify that there were bioweapons in Cuba.

Bolton was going to hype the threat. He was stopped by the intelligence community. And, in response to that, they went after this intelligence officer, who was not undercover. But in this case, they've gone after a woman who was undercover, has been undercover since 1985. And it doesn't matter whether she's an analyst, whether she's an operator. She's undercover.

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0310/03/asb.00.html

[Judi Lynn]

18. Thanks for providing that transcript on Aaron Brown's show

I'll bet NO ONE's surprised to hear this low down and extremely dirty way of doing business is typical of the _Bush Brigade.

I sure would love to hear more about what they did to the National Intelligence Officer in Latin American affairs. Of course no one has ever heard a word about this before the CIA guy, Larry Johnson let it drop in the interview.

Now they'll probably be out to get him, too! He dared to inform the public that they are liars, and back stabbers!

[Osolomia]

7. Cuban-Americans to Protest Gorbachev's Appearance in Florida

(CNSNews.com) - Saturday's appearance of former Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev at a Florida summit focusing on the U.S. trade embargo against Cuba will draw protests from U.S. House members as well as anti-Castro Cuban-Americans.

Gorbachev is slated to meet with U.S. government officials at the Biltmore hotel in Coral Gables, Fla., to discuss the possible lifting of the 40-year-old embargo, originally put in place by the administration of President John F. Kennedy not long after Fidel Castro rose to power in Cuba and at the height of the Cold War with the Soviets.

Some in Congress have argued it's time to lift the embargo, in order to create another market for American farmers and help sow the seeds of capitalism in the communist island nation.

But congressional members representing South Florida continue to oppose the lifting of the embargo.

More...
http://www.townhall.com/news/politics/200310/POL20031003b.shtml

And who's side are DUers and the 2004 Dem presidential candidates on?

[Say_What]

11. Let me get out the violin!!

A vigil outside--yeah, after they've tried their damndest to starve their poorer island cousins for the sake of carrying on their 40+ year vendetta with Fidel Castro. Ah, the Ditzy-Balistic brothers. Fidel's favorite nephews. Gusanos extraordianaire.

:nopity: :nopity: :nopity:

Tomorrow ought to be interesting. Security for Gorby ought to be such that the shills Radio Mambi will no doubt incite to show up in Coral Gables to *protest* will be relegated to a street somewhere in Homestead.

Anyone listening to exile radio??? Where's Charles when you need him? ;-)

[Osolomia]

15. National Summit on Cuba - Saturday, October 4th

Biltmore Hotel, Coral Gables, Florida

Keynote Speaker
Mikhail Gorbachev

The U.S. State Department is currently reviewing all aspects of U.S. policy toward Cuba. Polls show a majority of Cuban-Americans have lost faith in current policy and are seeking new options that will promote the reunification of the divided Cuban family and address the needs of the Cuban people as they themselves express them. Changing national-security needs and new commercial opportunities are compelling Americans at large to reconsider relations with an important neighbor. The role of the international community is becoming an important part of the debate. The Summit will address the changing dynamics of the Cuba equation and explore what an effective, proactive U.S. policy could be, and what we can realistically expect it to achieve.


AGENDA

8:00am- Registration & Continental Breakfast
8:30am- Greetings from Cosponsors / Conference Overview and Goals
8:45am- Introductory Comments on behalf of former U.S. President Jimmy Carter
Shelley McConnell, Ph.D.-Associate Director, The Americas Program, The Carter Center will read a message of welcome from President Carter
9:00am - Our National Interest, Our National Security
Moderator: Lissa Weinmann, Cuba Project, World Policy Institute
General John Sheehan, USMC (Ret.), former Commander-in-Chief US Atlantic Command, Supreme Allied Commander Atlantic
The Honorable William D. Rogers- Vice Chair, Kissinger Associates, former Under Secretary of State
William Ratliff- Research Fellow, Hoover Institution, Stanford University
Ken Lindeman Ph.D.- Senior Scientist and Cuba Program Director, Environmental Defense
Michael Dow-Mayor of Mobile, Alabama
10:00am - Florida: A Changing Political Equation?
Moderator: Alfredo Duran- Cuban Committee for Democracy
Patricia Frank-Hillsborough County Commissioner
Kenneth Lipner, Ph.D.- Professor of Economics, Florida International University
Joe McClash- Manatee County Commissioner and Chairman of Port Manatee
Alvaro Fernández- Florida Director, SW Voter Registration Education Project
Former Florida State Rep. Annie Betancourt (District 115)
Rob Schroth- President, Schroth & Associates, conducted February 2003 poll on Cuban-American attitudes toward U.S.-Cuba policy
11:00am - Points of View from the New Generation of Cuban-Americans
Moderator: Silvia Wilhelm- Puentes Cubanos
Alejandro Portes, Ph.D.- Professor of Sociology, Princeton University
Elisabeth Cerejido- Exhibitions Coordinator, FIU Art Museum
José Latour- Immigration Attorney/Journalist/Musician/Former U.S. Diplomatic Officer
Cynthia Barrera- Ph.D. Candidate at University of Miami School of International Studies and Producer of Maria Elvira Confronta, one of the most popular Latin shows
Mayda Prego- Attorney with Hughes, Hubbard and Reed, Miami
12:15pm- Lunch in the Alhambra & Granada Rooms
1:30pm - The Human Dimensions of U.S. Policy
Moderator: Luly Duke-Fundación Amistad
José Miguel Vivanco- Executive Director, Americas Division, Human Rights Watch
Holly Ackerman, Ph.D.- Country Specialist for Cuba, Amnesty International USA
Robert Bach, Ph.D.- Senior Visiting Fellow, Inter-American Dialogue and former Executive Associate Commissioner for Policy, Planning and Programs, Immigration and Naturalization Service
Thomas Wenski- Coadjutor Bishop of Orlando, former Bishop of Miami
Donna Hicks, Ph.D.- Associate, Weatherhead Center for International Affairs, Harvard University
Peter Bourne, MD- Co-Chair MEDICC Academic Council, Former Chairman of the American Association for World Health, Special Assistant to the President for Health Issues in the Carter White House, former Assistant Secretary General of the United Nations
James Early - Director of Cultural Heritage Policy, Smithsonian Institution
2:30pm – Impetus for and Implications of Open Travel to Cuba
Moderator: Antonio Zamora- The Time is Now Coalition
Representative William Delahunt (D-MA)
Phil Peters- Vice President, Lexington Institute, staff of State Department under Reagan
Bradley Belt –Executive Director of the newly formed Association of Travel Related Industry Professionals (ATRIP)
3:30pm - The U.S., Cuba and the International Community: A Multilateral Perspective
Moderator: Patricia Gutierrez-Menoyo- Cambio Cubano
Joaquín Roy, Ph.D.- Jean Monnet Professor and Director of the EU Center at the University of Miami
Dr. Karl Buck, European Union Council of Minsters
The Honorable Mark Entwistle- former Canadian Ambassador to Cuba
John McAuliff – Expert on US opening to Vietnam, Fund For Reconciliation and Development
4:30pm - Closing Remarks
William LeoGrande, Ph.D.- Dean, School of Public Affairs, American University
5:00-6:00pm- Main Reception in Country Club Courtyard
5:00 - 6:00pm - Private Reception with keynote speaker in the Danielson Gallery
7:00pm - Dinner
7:45pm - Introduction of Keynote Speaker
Michael Putney, Political Commentator for ABC news affiliate in Miami, Channel 10.
8:00pm - Keynote Address given by MIKHAIL GORBACHEV
8:30pm - Question and Answer Session

http://www.worldpolicy.org/projects/uscuba/summitinvite.html

[Judi Lynn]

19. It should be interesting seeing the remaining Cuba-hostile "exiles"

have up their sleeves for tomorrow when Gorbachev speaks in Miami.

They'd damned well better get all the protesting and carrying on out of their system, as their days are numbered as the dim-witted, emotionally unbalanced, violent mob holding American's travel rights hostage.

We don't really need them to make those decisions for us, and the entire matter's going to be taken out of their hands. I can't wait.

[Osolomia]

22. It should be interesting seeing how Dems react

Will they keep their heads in the sand and continue to support Bush's policy despite the bipartisan majority that's opposed to it, or will they finally wake up and show some spine and integrity before it's too late. Wishfull thinking if DU is any indication:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=468981


Hold off on the pics from Angelfire, they really slow down loading this page btw.

[joshcryer]

8. edit

reply to wrong post

[Say_What]

28. FT: Miami rivals do battle over US policy on Cuba

<clips>

The 40-year struggle over US policy on Cuba will witness a new skirmish today, with Mikhail Gorbachev, former Soviet president, and Roger Noriega, assistant secretary of state for Latin America, taking conflicting positions at rival Miami conferences.
Advertisement

The two events - both at the elegant Biltmore Hotel resort - will present starkly different views on the trade embargo issue and are a clear sign of the importance Cuba policy plays in the state of Florida during the presidential election season.

Mr Noriega - making his first significant speech on Cuba since his confirmation - is expected to reiterate the pro-embargo, pro-travel ban policy he laid out in his confirmation hearings. But he may also announce new initiatives, including one on boosting the transmission capabilities of a pro-US television station.

Much of the conference featuring Mr Noriega will discuss internal conditions. An event discussing the embargo but not human rights violations would be "a travesty", says Jaime Suchlicki, director of the University of Miami's Institute for Cuban and Cuban American Studies and a conference organiser.

<http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1059480339590>

[Say_What]

30. Consensus, openness lead toward a free Cuba

<clips>

On Aug. 7, my father, Eloy Gutiérrez-Menoyo, decided not to return to the United States from what was supposed to be a short visit to Cuba. I can just see him when he said to himself: ``Why should I leave? This is my country.''

His action symbolizes a break with the past. It reflects his unwillingness to accept current preconceptions that the Cuban people cannot resolve their differences. It is a rejection of fear -- a new beginning. Above all it is an expression of love, determination and of his belief in the future of a united Cuban people.

In this spirit, an event will be held today at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables that will bring together prominent national, international and local leaders from a variety of sectors who also seek to challenge our habitual way of thinking and chart a new course for the Cuban community.

This event, the Florida National Summit on Cuba, is being led by Cuban-American groups, including my father's organization, Cambio Cubano (Cuban Change), representing the new consensus: U.S. policy toward Cuba must change before more people are thrown into prison, more bodies wash up on Florida's shores and another generation of Cubans gets lost in the suspended animation that U.S. policy -- hand in hand with Castro -- has led to all these years.

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/opinion/6929367.htm

[Mika]

31. Protesters are at the Biltmore today

On local Miami TV.. There is super security for blocks around the Coral Gables Biltmore hotel (ninja looking jackboots with M16's), but the usual "exiles" are allowed to protest across the street, as well as the press to video them. I have no idea how they got there because no one else can. Everyone else has to live in the area or have a reservation at the hotel to get past Bush's jackboot thug checkpoints.

move along.. nothing to see here except exiles.




Don't ask questions!

[Say_What]

33. Did Radio Mambi send out the call for the shills?

Where's the Ditzy-Balistic brother and the she-wolf? Article last night said they we're gonna be there keeping a *vigil*.

[Judi Lynn]

34. I just can't accept this, Mika!

Some mighty permanent assassinations have come from the "exile" community in Florida and New Jersey.

What CAN the authorities be thinking? Oh, never mind. The "authorities" are Cuban-Americans, too!

[Say_What]

32. Bush Administration Pledges Support To Cuban Exiles

Check the remarks by CANFer Joe Garcia. He intimates that BoyKing is bought-and-paid for, which he is. The logical question that should come out of this is: "Why do all pols pander to these people?" a known terrorist group at that!! :crazy:

<clips>

CORAL GABLES, Fla. -- A top State Department official urged unity Saturday among Cuban-Americans pushing for freedom in their communist homeland and pledged President George W. Bush's commitment to their efforts.

Roger Noriega, assistant secretary of state for Western Hemisphere affairs, noted Bush's support of the U.S. trade embargo on Cuba, travel restrictions to the island and efforts to raise worldwide awareness of Fidel Castro's oppressive regime. He said those policies would serve to help undermine the Cuban government.

His comments at a University of Miami event come as some Republicans and Democrats say Bush's support is waning among the Cuban-American community because of his failure to take action on certain policies.

The Cuban-American community support could be critical in the 2004 presidential election, particularly because Bush won Florida by such a slim margin three years ago.

http://www.nbc6.net/politics/2532291/detail.html

[Judi Lynn]

35. Comical statement from Noriega

(snip) "It is precisely because of the vigorous efforts of the Bush administration that Castro is more desperate than ever to pull us apart and to undermine our confidence," Noriega said. "To be sure, he wants his opponents on the island and in the exile community doubting one another rather than dogging his regime." (snip)

I think he's confused about just WHO is desperate. The U.S. is going to drop the embargo, after all, in the next few years, if not this year. That's o.k. with Cuba, from what we've heard. It's NOT o.k. with the Miami Mafia, which will be lost without someone to blame for their problems! Oh, ha ha ha.

What a comedian!

[Say_What]

42. Cuban-American political neaderthals on Gorby, etc.

Repuke Rep. Ros-Lehtinen, aka the she-wolf in Cuba, called Gorby a "former KGB guy who is a reformer with a small "r"". Like so many times in the past, they demonstrate what neaderthals they really are. Check out what Retired Gen. John Sheehan, who was chief of the U.S. Atlantic Command at Gitmo during the Cuban Missile Crisis, had to say about Noriega. Articles tomorrow ought to be interesting.

<clips>
MIAMI - (KRT) - Addressing rare competing seminars on U.S.-Cuba policy at a Coral Gables, Fla., hotel, Mikhail Gorbachev and the Bush administration's top diplomat for Latin America and on Saturday pushed strongly diverging views on how best to propel democracy in the communist-ruled nation.

Before an audience of about 200 people, Assistant Secretary of State for the Western Hemisphere Roger F. Noriega rattled off a list of pressures espoused by President Bush, who he said was ``wholly committed to the cause of Cuban freedom'' and ending President Fidel Castro's rule. Noriega's appearance was sponsored by the University of Miami's Institute for Cuba and Cuban-American Studies.

Hours later, former Soviet President Gorbachev spoke before an equally large audience and urged an end to the U.S. embargo on Cuba. His speech was sponsored by the World Policy Institute and several local and Washington organizations.

``I do believe it would be a great thing if the United States, as the only remaining superpower, would take the first step and lift the embargo,'' Gorbachev, who spoke in Russian, told reporters at a news briefing. ``I think it would have far-reaching consequences, and I would be the first to salute the American government for overcoming its fear of Cuba.''

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/breaking_news/6934953.htm

[Judi Lynn]

48. Cooll observation from Ret. General John Sheehan

concerning our sly, yet over-focused Roger Noriega:

(snip) Retired Gen. John Sheehan, who as chief of the U.S. Atlantic Command oversaw operations at the U.S. naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, said Noriega was just ``a little kid'' when the ex-Marine was facing the Cuban missile crisis.

``He's the newcomer to the issue and doesn't quite understand it,'' Sheehan said." (snip/)



Wouldn't you think that the guy who was the commander in chief of U.S. Atlantic Command might have some idea what he was talking about?

Thanks for posting that article.


Ret. General John Sheehan

[Osolomia]

44. Why do supporters let Presidential candidates pander to known terrorists

without a stink?! Talk about :crazy:, couldn't be complicity eh.

[ozone_man]

36. Has anyone been to Cuba?

I live pretty close to Montreal (an access point). Might take a vacation there next year with the family. It sounds like a great place. As I understand it, there is a restriction on spending money there. Maybe I could barter?

This whole embargo thing is ridiculous. I know, what if Gorby says "Mr. Bush tear down this wall." Do you think that would work?

[Say_What]

37. Ozone_man, Gorby DID say 'tear down that wall' it was in the WP editorial

section and it's posted here at this site and in the editorial threads as well. It's an excellent article and the anti-Cuba fanatics are going f*ck'n nuts in Miami. He's the keynote speaker today at the Cuba summit and if the speech is anything like the editorial, it'll be history in the making. :-) and yeah, a number of us have been to Cuba--legally of course (wink, wink, nod, nod)--here's a site that will answer some of your questions.

<clips>
These are some of the most frequently asked questions regarding traveling to Cuba.

(1) Is it legal to travel to Cuba?

Yes, it is legal to travel to Cuba if you are a politician, a Cuban American, a journalist or if you have a legitimate research project pertaining to Cuba. It is also possible for educational, athletic and religious groups to obtain a license from the Treasury Department OFAC in Washington DC. It is also possible to travel to Cuba on a "hosted" trip, meaning essentially that you do not spend any money in Cuba.

For the most part, according to our government it is illegal for tourists to spend money in Cuba. As recently as October of 2000, the Congress again tried to ban travel to Cuba. Did they? No, nothing significant has changed since the regulations were passed on May 15, 1982. All that has happened was an attempt to prevent former President Clinton from opening the door to the "freedom to travel" and to allow farmers to travel to Cuba in an effort to sell their products. Cuba said they would not buy them without the proper financial assistance provided to every other nation under these same conditions. More recently (in 2002), about $175 million in sales has been authorized.

President George W. Bush said he would unite this country. So far all that has meant is that he will veto any legislation to allow free travel to Cuba or anything that might help the Cuban people. According a recent poll by CNN in September (Wolf Blitzer Show), 86% of the American people want the embargo ended. The House of Representatives passed legislation to allow the freedom to travel to Cuba on July 23, 2002 (the vote was 262-167). Once again, the Senate did not vote on this matter. Even if they did, President George W. Bush has already said that he would "veto" it! You can read more about events connected with Cuba on our Cubanews. Just go to the button at the top that says "Lots of Cuba Info", then click on Cubanews.

http://www.cubatravelusa.com/FAQ.htm

[ozone_man]

38. Mucho gracias.

Good luck in the key note address Gorbachev. This would be great if he delivers that line tonight.

:toast:

[Mika]

41. "Has anyone been to Cuba?" Yes. From all over the world. Except America.

"Has anyone been to Cuba?"


Millions of free people from all over the world are free to visit Cuba, and they do.. everyone except Americans. Americans are not free to go to Cuba without 'special papers' and permits from the jackboot US regime occupying that white house. Americans face imprisonment or other unjust penalties pronounced at the whim of the tyrannical thugs anointed at the USDoJ by a religious zealot.

Cuba is a great place to visit. I would only recommend that you go legally - unless you feel like getting lawyered-up to face down Bush's jackboots and thugs now occupying USOFAC or facing some rat infested solitary in one of Bush's dungeons manned by experts in torture and abuse.

[Osolomia]

46. Gorbachev Urges Bush to End U.S. Embargo on Cuba, 4 Oct 2003

Former Soviet Leader Calls on U.S. to Take the First Step toward 'Constructive Engagement' with Cuba
Saturday October 4, 11:11 pm ET

CORAL GABLES, Fla., Oct. 4 /PRNewswire/ -- Mikhail Gorbachev, former president of the Soviet Union, urged U.S. President George W. Bush to change U.S.-Cuba policy in his address at the National Summit on Cuba Saturday evening at the Biltmore Hotel in Coral Gables, Florida. Gorbachev used language from former U.S. President Ronald Reagan's 1987 speech, which urged Gorbachev to tear down the Berlin Wall, to issue his own challenge to Bush.

"I'm urging President Bush to tear down the wall of the embargo now, in order to lay the foundation for a new relationship with Cuba," Gorbachev said. "The wall of the economic embargo is the last remaining relic of the Cold War."

Gorbachev also expressed his support for the legislation recently passed by the U.S. House of Representatives that would lift restrictions on Americans to travel to Cuba, recalling the beneficial aspects of Reagan's policy of open travel to the Soviet Union.

"Freedom of travel is something that should have been done a long time ago," said Gorbachev. He went on to state that U.S. engagement with Cuba could provide "an understanding that could benefit the citizens of both the U.S. and Cuba and hasten the reunification of the divided Cuban family".

Several South Florida Cuban American leaders invited Gorbachev to come to their community to discuss his longstanding interest in Cuba and other historic perspectives on U.S. foreign policy. Gorbachev's speech took place at the National Summit on Cuba: Florida. The event was organized by the World Policy Institute's Cuba Project at New School University, Puentes Cubanos, Cuban Committee for Democracy, Fundacion Amistad, the Time is Now Coalition, Cambio Cubano, and Americans for Humanitarian Trade with Cuba (AHTC).

The National Summit on Cuba: Florida presented approximately 30 speakers including: General John Sheehan, former Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command; former assistant Secretary of State William Rogers; U.S. Representative William Delahunt (D-MA), international dignitaries, elected officials from Florida and Alabama, Cuban-American leaders, former U.S. government officials, academics, business leaders, representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. The Summit also received a message from former U.S. President Jimmy Carter reiterating his own call that the U.S. take the first step towards engagement in order to improve conditions for more political freedoms in Cuba.

More...
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/031004/nysa018_1.html

[Judi Lynn]

50. Sure wish we had some Spanish-speaking DU'ers from Miami

around tonight to find out what they're saying on Miami's Cuban stations about this astonishing event!

The list of speakers and their organizations you included in your post was unequaled, no doubt, at any time in US/Cuba relations!

(snip) The National Summit on Cuba: Florida presented approximately 30 speakers including: General John Sheehan, former Commander in Chief, U.S. Atlantic Command; former assistant Secretary of State William Rogers; U.S. Representative William Delahunt (D-MA), international dignitaries, elected officials from Florida and Alabama, Cuban-American leaders, former U.S. government officials, academics, business leaders, representatives of Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International. The Summit also received a message from former U.S. President Jimmy Carter reiterating his own call that the U.S. take the first step towards engagement in order to improve conditions for more political freedoms in Cuba. (snip/)

Good grief! The Miami Mafia is going to be up all night, creating new slurs, charges, and insults for each speaker, in order to try to undercut his/her reputation, as always!

This is getting humongous. Surely _Bush should be able to realize the trend is GROWING, in such huge ways, it's NOT GOING TO GET REVERSED, without some alarming Operation Northwoods contrivance, and even then, too many people will know. It's WORLDWIDE.

[Mika]

52. I'm here

Hi JudiLyn :hi:

I just came in and read your post.

My verbal Spanish is reasonable.

I scanned the dial in my car on the way home and heard nothing but "exile" outrage and red baiting.. nothing new in that regard. The hard line supporting stations (which are nearly across the whole dial in Miami) have callers calling in sightings of the "commie supporters" at restaurants and following their cars to people's homes and giving addresses. Groups of exiles race across town to the scenes of the sightings and to some homeowners houses who were hosting some of the participants, where the police had to be called.


Scanning the radio dial in Miami on any given day/night is a real learning experience. Tonight I learned (again) that Carter is a commie. I learned that Jeff Flake (R) is a commie. I learned that Gorbachev is Castro's gay lover. I learned that Americans sipping mojitos while screwing little boys on the beach is what Democrats really want. I learned that Cubans have made Miami into what it is. I learned that Oswaldo Paya is a commie faggot for dealing with the Cuban National Assembly. It gets worse too.. but I’m learning. Oh yeah.. Mother Mary will rescue Cuba from the clutches of the commies & democrats, like she saved Elian with dolphin angels. Ninoska Perez, Joe Garcia, Jose Basulto, Alex Penelas, Raul Sanchez, the 3 Diaz Balart brothers, the Shewolf (Ros), and the usual crowd are all frothing at the microphones representing themselves as the real voice of Cubans.



Its pretty hard to take, even for five or ten minutes. :puke: I switched back to a CD for the rest of the drive home before I blew a gasget laughing/crying.

[Judi Lynn]

53. Fantastically AWFUL! Thanks, Mika!

I've read before that Radio Mambi can mobilize whole segments of Cuban listeners to hop in their cars, or even buses, as in the 2000 Presidential vote recount, or in trying to intimidate the St. Augustine city council into backing out of setting up a sister-cities arrangement with Baracoa, Cuba.

The very idea they are out whizzing around in the dark, following people home from that conference almost makes one's hair stand on end. Now that's creepy!

So much hostility all in one area must be OVERWHELMING. I can see why you wouldn't want to just leave your radio on those stations for longer than a few minutes.

Thanks so much for the Miami view. It's simply amazing to people living in very Q-U-I-E-T cities!

[Judi Lynn]

51. An article written for the Cuban "exile" readers, no doubt

in an area represented by Mario Diaz-Balart has a skewed beginning, really bent and spun, but contains some quotes which simply can't be beat!

(snip) Speaking earlier in the day, retired Marine Gen. John Sheehan, former commander-in-chief of the U.S. Atlantic Command, called allegations that Cuba is developing weapons of mass destruction "the politicization of intelligence" as seemingly has been evidenced in Iraq.

"The fact is, there are no weapons of mass destruction in Cuba," Sheehan said. "It is no military threat to the U.S."

He characterized the U.S. government's stance on Cuba as being inconsistent with other foreign policy.

"We're killing ourselves to talk with North Korea and at the same time 90 miles away we can't do the same thing," he said. "That is inconsistent, and it is not what America is about."

What speakers from both groups could agree about America is its ideal of democracy.

"If you will the winds of democracy," said U.S. Rep. William Delahunt, D-Mass., "the first step is to allow Americans to come and (bring) their ideas to the Cuban people. The next time we invade, we're going to win — because we're going to invade with thousands of tourists.

"Don't tell me as an American that you are going to use my constitutional right to travel as a bargaining chip." (snip/...)

http://www.naplesnews.com/03/10/naples/e6480a.htm

It was amusing to see William Delahunt, who has sponsored Cuba-related amendments in the House getting referred to as a "Democratic Congressman from Massachusetts." Ha.

You might note that they, Miami Mafia, have revived the old "biological weapons" lie, which was mentioned as a bogus charge only yesterday by Larry Johnson, ex-C.I.A. officer in an interview, only yesterday.
(See transcript located by Say_What to check his remarks on Cuba in post #13 in this thread.)


They are desperate, and they're going to fight like madmen, but too many people are "on" to them now. Their days are numbered.

[Osolomia]

54. The lies and bullshit and pretzel logic of US Cuba policy

for all the world to see:

Text of Statement by Assistant Secretary of State for Western Hemisphere Affairs Roger F. Noriega before the Senate Foreign Relations Committee

October 2, 2003

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2003&m=October&x=20031002175233rellims0.9553797&t=usinfo/wf-latest.html

Funny how he makes much ado about a supposed international coalition while failing to acknowledge what's happening in Congress and State legislatures.

[Mika]

55. Dontcha just love it..

I love the way that the State dept cites famous communist supporters, (authors, poets, and pols, previously labeled as loons and insane), as credible sources the second they might dissagree with the Cuban government on any one thing (irrespective of the fact that they remain communist supporters and supporters of Cuba and are not considered credible overall by the State dept).



Thanks for posting those demented ravings by Noriega and State.