Inside Guantanamo

[Say_What]

<clips>
Inside Guantanamo will be broadcast on BBC One on Sunday, 5 October, 2003 at 22:15 BST.

Panorama uncovers the true picture of this new system of arrest, detention, interrogation and eventual trial by military commission, a key part of America's war against terror following the events of 9/11.

President Bush, in common with most Americans, is confident that Guantanamo Bay, where 600 or so men are held, is necessary, and makes us all safer.

As he puts it, the detainees are "bad people".

A six month investigation takes reporter Vivian White to Asia, Africa, Europe, and America, to talk to those on the receiving end of American justice, and to those responsible for administering it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/panorama/3122416.stm

[Tommy_Douglas]

1. Interesting quote...

"We didn't come here to start terror, we came here to stop terror..."

Its too bad Cruise and TOW missles have their own way of formulating terror.

[pink_poodle]

2. This is shameful. It's an outrage. They have not even been tried nor....

have they even been formally charged with anything that has any evidence to support their "crimes", in most cases. What the hell is going on????? Either prove their guilt or let them go. Look at that picture. It makes me want to hurl.

[DeathvadeR]

5. Sounds like Freedom to me.

Held without charges, No representation, Yup all hail the glorious freedom of Democracy, America has brought to you IRaq!!! Yawn

[donsu]

3. can you feel the world's hatred over Gitmo?

can you feel our frustration over not being able to stop it?

Gitmo sits there under our name AMERICA.

Oh, the shame of it.

(and soiling the beautiful island of Cuba.)

[CheshireCat]

4. Sick!

The thought of what is happening in that hellhole of a place has been making me ill since day one.

NOT IN MY NAME!

[Say_What]

6. What happened to the 13 and 14 year old kids they're holding??

In August, after complaints from around the globe, they said they *may* free them but I haven't heard anything since. Disgusting.

<clips>

The BBC's Gordon Corera, in Guantanamo Bay, says the US's interviews with the three children - aged between 13 and 15 - reveal they may have been coerced into fighting in Afghanistan.

General Geoffrey Miller who leads operations at the camp is seeking to have the children released in recognition of their age and co-operation, our correspondent says.

"These juvenile enemy combatants were impressed, were kidnapped into terrorism. They have given us some very valuable intelligence. We are very close to making a recommendation on their transfer back to their home countries," General Miller said.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3172617.stm

[JoFerret]

10. The children?

...they get older. Soon they can be tried as adults. (If any trials are forthcoming for these poor people. Oops...bad people, naughty people. evil doers. (And ...maybe some of them are, but lets find out which ones.)This is a disgrace. But what a noble and unpopular cause to ask for justice on their behalf. I thank all those who have the courage to seek justice for prisoners.

[cprise]

7. Hogan's Heros its not

It's more like somthing out of Minority Report.

[pfitz59]

8. Keeper of the Secrets!

These are former Mujadeen Freedom Fighters who Saint Ronnie once likened to our own Founding Fathers! Somewhere amongst the 'detainees' is the Afghan equivalent of a Patrick Henry, George Washington or Benjamin Franklin! How many know of the "carpet of gold, or carpet of bombs" threat? The seeds of our nation's destruction lie dormant at Guatanamo! What bitter weed shall they sprout?

[bobthedrummer]

9. He has spoken

they are "bad people" all of them, no one knows who they are but they are "bad people".
Truth serum and torture is too good for them
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2002/060402a.html

[jiacinto]

11. Well

I don't understand why so many people here sympathize with terrorists and put them ahead of the people they harm.

[muriel_volestrangler]

12. The proof that the people are terrorists is unknown

For instance, one of the British men in Guantanamo was arrested in Pakistan, in a house where he was staying with his family and children. He had previously been in Afghanistan (at first with, and then without, his family). So it's not obvious what he did wrong; not having been charged, and unable to communicate with his family, no-one on the outside knows. Under the normal laws of any civilised country, he'd have to be charged within a few days, and have proper independent legal representation. Instead, he's had over a year sitting in jail.

Why should a British man arrested in Pakistan, and not caught 'red-handed', be tried by an American military court, presumably for activities in Afghanistan? Though that would be an improvement on his current situation.

The Bush admin has apparently talked about getting people liked him tried in their own countries. Unfortunately, Bush the Dim has screwed that up by saying in an international press conference "I know they're bad people", which is prejudicial to a fair trial in the UK.

Worst President Ever.

[leftchick]

13. are you assuming they are terrorists

just because they were snatched by the BFEE and put in prison? The point is how the hell would anyone know if they are or not with everything kept SECRET! I think you need to read the article....

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

14. Watch the program

It will be online (via the link above) tomorrow night after the BBC airs it over here.

There are British citizens in Guantanamo who were abducted by the CIA in Pakistan & 18 months later not a single piece of evidence has been given as to why they are supposedly "terrorists". And IF there are "terrorists" in Guantanamo, then they should be given exactly the same rights that you or I would receive. America is shaming itself totally with this. Everything that your country stands for is being undermined by this camp.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

15. It's been admitted that only about 15% of these people were "terrorists"..

...why are we still holding the rest of them? Is it because we don't want them to discuss what happened to them while at Gitmo? How many got shipped to other countries to be tortured only to discover that they not only knew nothing, but that they were ordinary civilians?

Aren't these the same tactics used by the Nazis, Soviets, and any other tin-horn dictatorship for the last 100 years? Is that what you want to be?

At least your posts follow a consistent pattern.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

18. Carlos, the only proof that these people are "terrorists"

is that the Busheviks say so.

They have had no trials, no legal representation, no nothing. Just interrogation.

The apologists say that that's okay because they're not American citizens, and foreigners are not entitled to Constitutional protections.

That attitude is so morally indefensible that I don't know where to start.

The prisoners may all be terrorists. The prisoners may all be goatherds who were commandeered into marching with the Taliban and whose families think they're dead. The truth is undoubtedly somewhere in-between.

If they're guilty, let the government prove it according to the standards of proof used in our courts of law--or even in a military courtmartial. Let them have public trials with legal representation, full knowledge of the charges against them, and the chance to face their accusers.

I don't want us turning into the Soviet Union, not even when it comes to dealing with suspected terrorists, just for the emotional satisfaction of the people whose fear of terrorism has interfered with their thought processes.

[tkmorris]

21. Are they?

I can't understand why some people object to actually PRESENTING EVIDENCE and proving your case in a court of law. If they are guilty, fine, jail em.

Tell you what Jiacinto, would you support them arresting YOU and holding you indefinately, without any rights, no lawyer, no trial, no anything? Sometimes I swear I can't tell if you are kidding or what.

[bpilgrim]

22. that is just what ordinary germans said

as well as promoted by the rulers during their last big war.

do you see the slippery slope you are on?

think about it...

peace

[thebigidea]

23. there's a surprise!

the same line again and again. And as per usual, you don't address the chorus of voices screaming: "But we don't KNOW they're terrorists... that's the problem!"

[AntiCoup2K4]

16. For those of you that doubt the Bush - Hitler comparisons.....

Here's your Auschwitz..... built by Halliburton's construction division, no less.

Nobody knows exactly who is there... no names, no exact numbers, etc.

No trials, no convictions. Just round them up and imprison them until they die. Torture? highly likely.

As for things like ovens, gas showers, mass graves and such, you don't need em. Just toss the bodies offshore and let the sharks handle the rest. Why do you think they chose this location?

[lostnfound]

17. Does anybody understand WHY they are being treated like this?

Because I really don't get it. There's no money to be made (or very little). Torture doesn't really get you good information, does it? Especially after 18 months or however long it's been. If it's being used as a deterrent, then why bring them to this part of the world?

What good is it doing for the Bush administration? Was it just another poorly thought out plan, followed up by a cover-up-at-all-costs? After the first couple of months they figured out it was a bad plan, but have no way to get rid of the evidence?

Experiments maybe..?

[karlschneider]

19. Well, of COURSE they're bad people. They're in prison aren't they?

:eyes:

[Gin]

20. Do I see Bob Novak in there?

gin