Rocker defends Rush; Sapp goes after Rocker, ESPN analysts

[underpants]

Yes THAT John Rocker :eyes:

http://www.ajc.com/sports/content/sports/1003/03rocker.html
John Rocker, the former Atlanta Brave who's hardly the voice of discretion, has come out in defense of Rush Limbaugh.

"All I will say, is people need stop being so sensitive," Rocker said while appearing on Sporting News Radio's Peter Brown Show this week. "(Rush) wasn't trying to physically hurt or mentally hurt Donovan McNabb. I mean, he just wasn't doing it. I know Donovan is probably a little upset by it, but that certainly wasn't his intent. He has been a journalist and newsman long enough to know better than to intentionally, blatantly make a comment like that to intentionally offend somebody."


Tampa Bay star defensive tackle Warren Sapp also sounded off on the Limbaugh situation on Sporting News Radio's James Brown Show.

"I think Rush Limbaugh has already laid his blueprint in front of America on what he thinks and how he views," Sapp said. "It was just a shock to me that ESPN gave him an opportunity and an open mike in front of a nation to spew out what he wants to spew out, then it came to a head. The thing I want ESPN to do is, don't take his resignation ... fire the man, because he stepped across the line. Once you step across that line someone has to be an authority to say that's wrong and I'm going to take a stance on it."

"I'm shocked that Tom Jackson and Michael Irvin just sat there and let this roll across their faces and didn't say anything. Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up? Trust me, it's not even close. I don't know what Rush Limbaugh was thinking, but Michael Irvin and Tom Jackson didn't do us much justice, that's the one thing I was more teed off about than anything."

[Wetzelbill]

1. I bet the last person Rush wanted to come to his aid was Rocker

talk about making a bad situation worse.

What I like about Warren Sapp is he has the balls to come out and say something about this. Most people would just mind their own business, but Sapp has never been one to stand idly by. Good for him.

[underpants]

2. I'd guess Rush defended Rocker

Just a guess.

[sendero]

5. not much of a sports fan...

... and never heard of Mr. Sapp, but I have now. At least *someone* on the inside has the integrity to say what needs to be said.

[Guaranteed]

13. Very popular defensive end for the Bucs...

...famous for sacking the quarterback.
On edit: Article says he's a tackle. Whatev. :)

[VermontDem2004]

34. He is a tackle, a Defensive Tackle

[SidDithers]

17. Warren Sapp is a monster...

But his comments were bang on. Don't misunderestimate* a guy, just 'cause he looks like this:



Sid

Edit, fixed link, i think

[SidDithers]

19. Link fixed nt

[maveric]

22. Warren Sapp is a very intellegent guy.

Of genius level IQ. He is also very outspoken and a free thinker who is not afraid TO SPEAK HIS MIND.

Go Warren!

[fishnfla]

46. Lets not get carried away

warren sapp is a great football player. he has skeletons of his own. This past summer he tried to fake a paternity test, totally got busted and burned by a judge. Not too smart, IMO.

Last season he blind-sided Chad Clifton on a play 3o yards awy from the ball. the guy was in the hospital for weeks.

he's just a football player.

[atlien]

49. Agreed

While his comments yesterday might have been on point. He is just an outspoken football player.

[Uzybone]

58. The Clifton play

was a clean play. Football is a violent sport ...shit like that will happen. BTW is think Sapp is a blowhard most of the time.

[fishnfla]

62. It was a legal hit. It wasnt a clean play.

And it sure as hell didn't take a "genius" to pull it. Kind of like when he impregnated a woman. When a man hides and runs away from the responsibility of fathering a child, thats the type of cheap play that ruins lives. life is not a sport.

[jamesinca]

90. Let us bring up this one

Green Bay and Dallas, NFC title game. Reggie White was face masked how many times and it was never called? Did that make it clean and legal, or just never called. Green Bay lost their center that day, late in the game. They also lost one of the assistant coaches. Penalty or not, the damage and repercussions went well beyond any yellow flag!

[RetroLounge]

72. You wouldn't be biased at all, would you?

Being a Packer fan and all, would you?

I mean, Sapp only creams Favre in every game...

[shanti]

64. yes, go warren!

he NEVER holds back!

[CounterCoulter]

3. Good for Warren

I too was upset that Michael Irvin just let Rush bitch slap him like that. Too be fair, though, it did put Mr.'s Irvin and Jackson in a very awkward position, considering that they had to be thinking, "This is what ESPN wants."

ESPN behaved in a truly despicable manner in deciding to bring in Rush Limbaugh.

[atlien]

51. Nail on the head

You hit it. ESPN is despicable for even bringing the guy in. They knew he was a racist.

[LeftistGorilla]

60. The Sapp....

tells it like it is....

[Brucey]

4. Maybe Rocker doesn't get it.

Rush said that blacks are inferior. It wasn't about McNabb. It was the old bigot idea that blacks aren't smart enough to play quarterback. Then he gets to add to that chestnut the idea that the media are liberal and so politically correct that they have to cover up the "truth" about black quarterbacks. That's what he meant.

[underpants]

7. You know what? That is the best summary of this I have read

You are absolutely correct. Thanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. That's EXACTLY What He Meant

I was castigated in an earlier thread for assuming, or inferring, i knew what Rush was really saying.

I'm now officially declaring that i'm not the only one who interpreted this statement the way i did. Thanks Brucey.
The Professor

[sendero]

37. gee...

... I thought that part was obvious :) That's been the old racist saw in football forever, blacks can be lineman but they are not smart enough to be a qb or a manager. What a bunch of bullshit.

[jamesinca]

89. To this I say Doug Williams

Washington Redskins, Super Bowl. Yes doug Williams is a black QB and yes the Redskins did with him as their QB in the Super Bowl.

[gratuitous]

6. ESPN laid down with the dogs

And got up with fleas. Who'da thunk it?

[bleedingheart]

8. Rush is not a Journalists ...neither is O'Lielly

[chaumont58]

9. One thing about Tom Jackson,

Hesiod at Counterspin.blogspot.com has a story that Tom Jackson did NOT take in laying down.

This from Hesiod:

"Jackson, who did challenge the football element of Limbaugh's commentary but not the racist part, also caught heat in some media quarters and from some of his friends.

On Wednesday, Jackson told an ESPN executive by phone he was going to attend the "Countdown" production meeting tomorrow, tell Limbaugh what he thought of him, quit the show and fly home.

Jackson's stance was exactly opposite to the one ESPN wanted the "Countdown" cast to take. With outside pressure mounting, management wanted Jackson & Co. to cooperate and help cool things down.

That might explain why Berman went on the record saying he didn't believe Limbaugh's tone or intent was malicious, but "I probably should have looked to soften it."

Spies say Jackson wasn't buying Berman's spin, or the words of ESPN executive VP Mark Shapiro, who rushed to Limbaugh's defense in Wednesday's USA Today.

Even Shapiro had to know there would be major problems if Jackson had quit......."

see the rest at

http://counterspin.blogspot.com/

Hesiod does good work.

[underpants]

11. Some may say too little too late but.....

I was expecting to hear something like that. Not that I have personal knowledge but Jackson just seems to me to the kind of guy who would do that. Maybe he is covering his a** I dunno.

Now if Rush had tried something like that in front of say Joe Morgan there would have been hell to pay right there and right then.

[CatWoman]

15. Jackson and Irvin were in SHOCK

as was I.

I well understand why they didn't say anything --

1. They couldn't believe what Rush was saying.

2. It's best they didn't go off on him on live TV in front of the nation.

This from someone who has been there...............

[atlien]

50. Under Complete Control

They weren't in shock. What they were is completely under control. Just like every other commentator or major network reporter. Those guys can only say what they are allowed to say. On a sports show where you got guys speaking off the cuff, it may seem loose and free. But all it takes is a situation like this and you see just how much freedom the guys really have.
They weren't in shock. They just know that they might not have a job if they tell the truth on some issues. Completely under control. Just like the network whores that won't say Bush lied about that WMD stuff. Not shock. Under control.

[gratuitous]

12. Okay, hold Jackson and Michael Irvin to account

But what about the other guys sitting in front of live mics in that studio? Chris Berman is willing to let Rush off the hook because he doesn't think Rush was "malicious." What in the hell (pardon my freedom) does that mean? "Sure, Medgar Evers was gunned down in his driveway, but I don't think the shooter was malicious; he was just defending his way of life."

And what about Steve Young? Seems to me he made a whole lot of money over the course of his career handing the ball off to the likes of Ricky Watters and Garrison Hearst, and throwing the ball to Jerry Rice and John Taylor. Or does he think all those touchdowns and all those victories just happened by the grace of God and the white folks on his team? I'm pretty sure he doesn't, and from what I've seen in interviews, Young appears to be a pretty good guy. But he and Berman both dropped the ball on this one, every bit as much as anyone else in that studio.

[chaumont58]

16. Just to be sure here, I am a Tom Jackson fan

I think he handled it right. He put the fear of god in ESPN. As for Berman, fuck 'em.
ESPN just might have saved Flush's life. Just imagine Flush mouthing some horseshit around someone like Lawrence Taylor? Taylor would sqaush the little pissant.
Steve Young is a repuke mormon.

[gratuitous]

21. I too like Tom Jackson

And I'm sure it was the possibility of him taking leave at ESPN that inspired Rush's "resignation."* But I've seen more than one column that implied that either Jackson or Irvin should have spoken up at the time, on camera. I presume this is because those two guys are black, but I don't see that Berman or Young should be excused from the "coulda/shoulda" simply because they're white.

I'm not aware of Steve Young's (or Chris Berman's) politics, though of course I know that he's a direct descendant of Brigham Young. And though Mormons are not the most outspoken advocates of civil rights, the sort of comment Rush made was an assault on all of our common humanity. For those writers who say that Jackson or Irvin should have said something, I'm just saying the same holds true for Berman and Young.

Of course, in the course of a show like that, with everybody taking turns talking and no real script, it's possible that when the stupid comment fell out of Limbaugh's mouth, none of the others could quite believe he said what he did for a second, and then the opportune moment to register a response passed. It's possible. But still doesn't qualify as a reason, or even an excuse.

*Did Rush jump, or was he pushed? I don't give a flying fig.

[damnraddem]

10. Ooh, the perfect defender for Rush.

Maybe the KKK will ride to his defense, too!

[Chomskyite]

14. I would have given anything to hear Tom Jackson tell Rush,

"PUT A JERSEY ON! PUT A JERSEY ON!"

[SWPAdem]

18. Man, I'd pay big bucks to see Sapp deal with Rush

n/t

[rocktivity]

30. Great idea, SWPAdem! And Jackson can referee!

rocknation

[shanti]

65. yesssss

*salivating at the thought* ;-)

[2cents]

20. Interesting

"Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up? Trust me, it's not even close."

Methinks Sapp is the other side of the Limbaugh coin.

[BigDaddyLove]

23. Interesting is right...............

Limbaugh says that a certain black player isn't as good as he's hyped up to be and he's called a racist, while Sapp says the same about whites and no one says a word, except to praise him for 'speaking up'.

For the record, I agree with Rush on one point; the Eagles defense has consistently been the reason they've won games.....not just during McNabbs tenure, but for the last decade.

[FuseONE]

24. man

the Eagles averaged more points per game last year than they had in the last 25 years (or something like that), all of which is strictly due to donovan mcnabb who has CRAP around him.

[DemVet]

36. Uh.....no.

No QB, black or white, can do it alone.

[atlien]

44. Vick might...

We'll see when Vick comes back.

I'm just kidding, sorta.

[FredScuttle]

76. He can when the only receivers he has

are the likes of James Thrash and Todd Pinkston...you can find better receiving tandems in the women's professional football league.

[VermontDem2004]

39. Everyone with half a brain knows that

But what Rush's doesn't know is that McNabb went to three pro bowls in 4 years, he was runner up to league MVP 2 years ago, and without him the Eagles wouldn't have gone to the NFC Championship Game two straight years, yes the defense stops the other team from scoring but it is the offense that scores more points then the other team. What if McNabb was a disaster and scored only 0 points a game? Did Elway execute that drive to lead them to the Super Bowl or was it the Broncos Defense? What McNabb has done in his first four years is incredible.

[atlien]

43. Eye on the ball

What Rush was saying has nothing to do with the Eagles defense. He just used that to "try" and make PC what he really wanted to say.

Eye on the ball.

[oxycontinrush]

54. McNabb was elected to Pro-Bowls by his peers.

Donovan McNabb wasn't put in the Pro Bowl by rabid Philly fans. The fans don't vote on football's all-star game. The players do. If NFL players think McNabb is one of the best QBs in the league, that's good enough for me.

One thing I haven't seen discussed in all this discussion of McNabb is what his ability to run the football does to allow his teammates to excel. When a team is playing McNabb's Eagles they have to assign a linebacker to him to basically follow him around the field. That's a linebacker that is not participating in stopping the run or pass coverage. That means, to put it simply, the other players are more likely to play well.

So when you judge McNabb, you don't just consider how well he does, you have to consider he's helping the other Eagles on the field perform better as well.

[VermontDem2004]

69. I agree

Like Vick, McNabb is a type a player that forces you to change your defense by running a QB Spy with your linebacker.

[scottxyz]

81. Both BigDaddyLove and 2Cents got it wrong - subtly wrong

Nice try - trying to equate Sapp's statement with Rush's to come to the conclusion they're both racists.

You'll have to hone your rhetorical skills a bit better to pull off a sly one like that.

Here's where your logic falls apart:

The implication and the context of Sapp's remark ("Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up?") are that NOW THAT WE'RE ON THE SUBJECT OF BEING SOFT ON MEDIOCRE PLAYERS, let's take a look and see which players REALLY get this kind of benefit.

Sapp was quite on the ball to point out that this IS already going on - and most often for the benefit of white guys.

I know many, many black people in many professions who have related that no matter HOW good they are, they get a whole lot more scrutiny and critisism than similarly-talented white people who tend to get a free pass. This is the well-known phenomenon Sapp appears to be referring to. If you haven't heard of it, do some social research before you start implying Sapp is a racist.

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Sorry 2cents

I said the same thing in my post, and posted before i read all the way down. Didn't mean to step on your sentiment. Apparently, we thought of the exact same thing.
The Professor

[2cents]

28. No problem - cheers.

[scottxyz]

79. Funny you didn't like this line - it was my FAVORITE

C'mon you've never noticed how even mediocre white guys tend to get lionized while stellar black guys tend to get more scrutinized in most fields?

Sapp and Rush WERE saying the same thing as two side of the same coin.

However, that doesn't mean the situation they're talking about is just as symmetric.

You sound like you're trying to imply that in the real world Rush and Sapp are talking about, BOTH white guys and black guys get about the same share of overpromotion.

[ProfessorGAC]

25. Methinks Warren Sapp Crossed the Line Himself

As much as i detest Limbaugh and what he did, i don't think Warren helped the cause here. Why did HE have to bring up the Anglo scrub thing? Not the cleverest thing to have done, i would think! He has just armed the pro-Rush buffoons who will now scream "double standard".

Thanks Warren, but please sit this one out!
The Professor

[underpants]

31. Like Kurt Warner,Testaverde, Kitna, Rob Johnson, etc.

There are many QB's in the NFL who at any other time would AT BEST be wearing baseball hats and carrying clip boards at any other time.

That was off the top of my head. I'm just saying..........

[VermontDem2004]

41. Kitna agreed

Not Testaverde and Warner, Testaverde is actually solid this season. Just his team is not winning any games.

[underpants]

71. I included Warner really because of the Giants game

That was a clear example of what Sapp is talking about. He was fumbling all over the place (hands were low) and yet Marks refused to take him out and let Bulger get in.

as far as Testaverde........I stick with what I said.

Another example was Jeff George. His career from one great day (conmbine) saw a fantastic arm that couldn't produce wins. He still was picked up what twice and eventually he apparently was such a jerk (my reading of it) that he was let go as they would rather not have his arm if it was attached to the same body as his head.

[VermontDem2004]

73. He also had a concussion

Have you ever played a game with a concussion? Plus Testaverde has been to two pro bowls and an AFC Championship game, look at SOME of these stats.

1996, 59% completion %, 4177 yards, 33 TD
1998, 62% completion %, 3256 yards, 29 TD


What I am saying is no one is saying he is the best ever, but he was a solid QB later in his career and he is having a solid season, unfortanetly it isn't producing wins. Warner was great earlier in his career and I still think he can still do it. Now Jeff George? That is rediculous, he wasn't in the top 10 or top 20 greatest of all time but he was a solid QB.

[underpants]

74. Concussion or not it is about Marks sticking with his guy

That's I meant by that. If someone is having a bad day (for whatever reason) and you have someone available you pull them. Marks himself said that he knew something was wrong but he stubbornly refused to yank him.

Jeff George? Please.

As far as Testaverde okay he is steady but he really is living off that one year with the Jets still. Last year they saw a direct effect of giving Pennington a chance to play as he should have been the whole season and possibly the one before. No, I wasn't in the coaches' offices but it was glaringly obvious but then I can't stand Vinnie and I saw Chad play several times in college so I'm not very objective about it.

[DemVet]

35. True.

[VermontDem2004]

38. I agree

That comment was over the line.

[scottxyz]

82. Sorry ProfessorGAC, 2Cent and BigDaddyLove

I have to let you know that the line that disturbed you so much was in my opinion PRECISELY the most insightful thing he said.

Do you mean to say you're entirely unacquainted with that distinctly American phenomenon where an "Anglo scrub" will get lots of free passes in life whereas his black colleague will have to pass lots of extra hurdles and extra scrutiny?

Rush was trying to say McNabb was getting a kind of free pass. Sapp quite rightly pointed out that if we're gonna talk about people getting free passes, it more often tends to be white people in this country. He wasn't calling white players scrubs, just like Rush wasn't just calling McNabb a scrub. He, like Rush, was trying to identify WHICH scrubs tend to get a free pass. Rush claimed that black ones do and Sapp claimed that white ones do. Yes, these statements are mirror images of each other. Do you think they are both equally correct?

The asymmetry in the careers of black and Anglo scrubs in this country is quite obvious to everyone. Sapp is quite right to bring the discussion to that point. Sapp's statement would only be a mirror image of Rush's if the sitution of incompetent black and incompetent white people in America were also symmetric. It isn't, so your implication that Sapp is somehow a racist is erroneous.

Again, to summarize, Rush wasn't saying that black players ARE scrubs, nor was Sapp saying that Anglo players are scrubs. (You would have been correct if you said that these mirror-images statements showed both Sapp and Rush are both racists.)

Rush was saying that black players WHO HAPPEN TO BE SCRUBS tend to get a free pass (because of that vast left-wing conspiracy he and his dittoheads have talked themselves into believing in).

And Sapp replied that Anglo players WHO HAPPEN TO BE SCRUBS are the ones who tend to get a free pass (because of racism).

These are mirror image statements, but they don't mean both Rush and Sapp are racists. They're not commenting on the number of scrubs in the game - they're commenting on the color of the scrubs who get a free pass. They ARE indeed mirror-image statements. But Sapp's sounds quite believable, whereas Rush's doesn't. And the only statement that sounds racist is Rush's.

[Mixxster]

29. I'm still trying to figure out what Sapp means by this:

"Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up? Trust me, it's not even close."

[VermontDem2004]

40. I guess I figured it out

He said that there way more scrubs in the game that are white

then black ones getting more credit then they deserve. At first I thought he was out of line but now he makes sense. It wasn't like he said there are more white scrubs then black scrubs in the NFL.

[atlien]

42. I understand what he means

He means Keith Brookings. That is what he means. I'm sure that Af-Amers like Sapp see it much more clearly. When you're out there on the field, you don't have to listen to the commentators and thus aren't affected by the bs they spew from the opening kickoff to the final whistle. Sapp and others know who can play and who can't. And they know it from personal experience. From chasing a guy down or not being able to. Not from listening to some fat commentator that won't stop talking about some guys dreadlocks. There are many, many that I can think of, over the years up to this very moment, players like Keith Brookings, that were overly hyped for the usual reasons and other players that were talked down, again for the usual reasons.
I know that people don't like to hear about the "race" issue, ever. Guilt is often used by people with all kinds of angles so most Eur-Amers are sensitive to any claims of prejudice, institutional or personal. If you feel guilty about it, you feel guilty. I don't advocate guilt, I advocate action, personally. But racial prejudice is alive and well througout American society.
Rush doesn't have 22 million listeners for nothing.

But about the athletes. Anyone remember Gino Torreta? Anyone remember Brian Bosworth? Well, how about Charlie Ward? He, like Torreta won the Heisman, came from a perennially huge football school but unlike Torreta, was being told before he even declared himself eligible for the NFL draft, that he might go late in the draft because they didn't know if he was "NFL" material. Remember now, this is the Heisman trophy winner, at QB. Should be an automatic #1 pick, no matter what your team needs, unless you have a Mike Vick already. So instead of being "Kordelled", Ward decides to go play another professional sport and becomes a guard for the New York Knicks, in the NBA where an African-American is good "material" no matter the position.
Point is, the prejudice in the NFL has been going on for decades and is just now, with guys like Culpepper, Vick, McNabb, McNair, coming to an end. Well, I won't speak prematurely about it's end but the color line appears to be breaking.

I'm just glad that Sapp included that line in his comments. It takes a guy like him to say what no other commentator in any sport will ever, ever, ever (did I say "ever"), ever say, there is blatant racism in the sport and it's perpetuated by the media that hypes certain players and downs others.

[VermontDem2004]

45. That is BS

2001 He has 106 tackles
2002 he has 114 tackles and a pro bowl season.

Fact is he is not in the top 5 in anybodys top linebacker list but he is not overhyped, getting 100+ solo tackles in a season is a milestone for a linebacker, it is like getting 1,000 yards for a running back or getting 3,000 yards for a Quarterback.

Plus many heisman trophy winners were flops and Charlie Ward made it clear he was going to the NBA if he wasn't drafted in the first round. Plus players go through combines, team workouts, drills, etc the months leading up to the draft. No owner is going to draft a player simply because they won a heisman trophy, he is going to evaluate their talent and decide how could he is, does he have the ability to develop into a better player, then decide who they will look for first before drafting that certain person. Plus it is not all black heisman trophy winners being bumped, you remember Tim Crouch don't you? A White Heisman Trophy winning QB from Nebraska was drafted in the 4th round only to play wide reciever, he later retired from the NFL because he didn't want to play WR. But the fact that Brookings is over hyped is rediculous. Plus you forgot to add Rodney Peete, Randall Cunningham, Warren Moon, and others to that list. Plus Warren said there are more scrubs that are white then there are blacks who are overhyped. If you think Brookings is a scrub, then you need to give me some of that stuff you are smoking.

[atlien]

48. No, Tim Crouch was BS

Comparing Tim Crouch, who is only an example that strengthens my argument (uhh..why did he even win the Heisman?) to Charlie Ward, is ridiculous. That's what's BS. Not even in the same league of football player. And that is what everyone saw. Charlie Ward, was a first round QB and it was known. He made it clear he was going to the NBA "because" of the negative publicity he had been receiving the entire time. Even while winning the Heisman. The talk about his height and his abiity to lead was the same ole crap heard everytime you had an Af-Amer in the position to play QB. Heck, Doug Johnson got kicked out the year after winning the SuperBowl, earning MVP honors while doing it.

About Keith Brookings. Screw the stats bud, I'm an Atlantan, a 20 year season ticket holder Falcons Fan. You need to watch the games. Keith Brookings has been overhyped from the start. And now that they gave him this huge contract, he's locked in. But it's obvious that he sucks. He's surrounded by guys that suck more, but he still sucks. So yeah, he has some tackles. Someone has to get em. My point and the point of this thread, was and is the overhyping. And he was overhyped. Screw the media, go to some Falcons sites and see what fans think of Brookings.

[VermontDem2004]

52. You can screw the stats

but 114 Tackles last season is impressive, I don't care how many season tickets you have with the Falcons. I seen him play and to get that many tackles means you have great awareness and that is what you need to be a great linebacker. Plus unless you were there at the combines, the drills, etc you have no idea if Charlie Ward was a first round draft pick, but you said if a QB wins the heisman trophy he should automatically be the first pick, well no, remember Danny Wuerffel? Also from what I knew Charlie Ward didn't have a strong arm and you need that to be a competitor in the NFL, if you think 28 teams passed him up 7 times purely based on racism, whatever. By the way, I don't care what fans say, alot of fans have nothing better to say then Your team sucks! I've been to team message boards, trust me, I know the rhetoric that goes on there. If getting 114 Solo tackles means you suck? Then why don't you go out there and do better? Not many Linebackers can get that many, most get around 80-90.

[scottxyz]

83. It's the crux of a very insightful argument Mixxster

He's saying that if anyone gets a free pass, it's inferior white players, not black ones.

This is a well-known phenomenon both in sports and in other walks of life. Black professionals are often subject to a whole lot more scrutiny and obstacles to advancement than white professionals are, in many fields.

Sapp was quite on the ball to point this out. After all, this was what Rush was implying - Rush wasn't so much saying that blacks are inferior; he was being more subtle: he was saying that the country is so LIBERAL now that inferior blacks are getting a free pass.

Sapp pointed out, correctly I think, that the country is still so RACIST that if anyone's getting a free pass around here, it's usually the white people.

[MadHound]

32. One bigot defending another, what's new?

n/t

[VermontDem2004]

33. It is interesting

Because Sapp got a contract to do ads and put his face on the Cover of the video game ESPN Football.

[atlien]

47. This is about America

This isn't about Rush. This isn't about Rocker. This isn't about Sapp. This isn't even about ESPN. This is about America. A place where a company like ESPN would even consider hiring a guy like Rush Limbaugh to commentate on a sport dominated by African-Americans. That is what this issue is really about. Look past the soundbites and the numerous quotes of reactions that we are going to hear. This is about America.
Real questions to ask:

1) Why is Rush Limbaugh popular?

2) Why would ESPN think it acceptable, knowing the track record of Mr. Limbaugh, to hire him in this capacity?

3) Why isn't the ire of the masses directed towards ESPN, the entity ultimately responsible for this very predictable situation?

4) Why don't African-American athletes, the moneymakers and thus actual controllers, in this arena, use their collective power to change the landscape and atmosphere of it all?

These are real points to think on? Not Rush (he hasn't done anything that he hasn't BEEN doing) not Rocker or Sapp.

This is about the culture of America.

[Desperadoe]

53. You just go, atlien

That's the best damn post on this whole thread. You are right on the money, this is not about Rush. It's about ESPN and why an idiot, racist bigot was hired in the first place.

Firing Rush doesn't change a damn thing here. The jerks that hired him are still in control of this network and this network does not represent the America that I wish to be a part of.

Racism is alive and doing very well at the good ol' boys ESPN network and firing Rush Limbaugh does not change a thing. The real people that need to be fired are the executives that promote this type of garbage. I am so damn sick and tired of re-fighting battles that were fought and won 25-30 years ago just because these bigoted, racist Republicans can't stand it that the good ol USA isn't the way it used to be. Their whole mission is to undo all of the civil liberties that we have clawed and scratched for and to refight all the lost wars that we fought ingloriously for and lost because we shouldn't have been fighting them in the first place.

Rush or no Rush, I will never watch this piece of shit network or their parent Disney until they clean house and get this garbage out to the shitpile where it belongs.

[VermontDem2004]

56. ESPN are such racists

that hired Joe Morgan, Tom Jackson, Sterling Sharpe, Michael Irvin, Stuart Scott, Bryan Cox, Kevin Frazier, need I to name more? They hired so many african americans it is impossible to name them all, but this is one little mistake ESPN made. He's gone, let's move on.

[VermontDem2004]

55. It's a sport

with the majority which are african-american, not "dominated". Brett Farve and others are dominate players in the NFL, Dante Culpepper is a dominate player in the NFL, A.J. Feeley is just another backup, Akili Smith is just another backup.

[Uzybone]

59. No your wrong there

not that it matters, but black players dominate the NFL. There are many dominant white players, but far and away, the most dominant players are majority black. Which to me means nothing, but its the truth.

[VermontDem2004]

68. No there are dominate PLAYERS

I sure as hell wish we can get beyond this race thing. Ed McCaffery is a dominate player, John Lynch is a dominate player, Brett Farve is a dominate player, Randy Moss is a dominate player, Marvin Harrison is a dominate player, Peyton Manning is a dominate player, Edgerring James is a dominate player, Jon Kitna isn't, Akili Smith isn't, you get my point?

[FredScuttle]

77. Excuse me....

I take issue with two of your white "dominate" players (I'm sure you meant "dominant"):

McCaffrey - was dominant before September 10, 2001, but has been marginal since

Favre - have you seen any Packer games this season? Favre has been, apart from the MNF domination of the Bears, abysmal. Of course, you might say he's struggling this year, but he's been great over the past few years....same goes for Donovan, eh?

[fishnfla]

57. Very good point, very good post, and welcome to DU

Donovan Mcnabb had as much to say in his reaction to this fiasco. obviously, he said there are people in this country who feel this way.

sad but true.

[2cents]

63. Disagree

This isn't about America, it's about business. As a business, ESPN aspires to increase revenue through increased viewership.

One way to generate interest is to gamble by introducing controversy (I don't think interest in controversy is uniquely American).

Bottom line - in my opinion, the hiring, the ensuing flap and chastizing of the Limp One will prove to be a win-win for ESPN.

That's en-ter-tain-ment (and good business).



.

[scottxyz]

85. Shorter 2Cent: "Racism is good for ratings"

I wrote ESPN a couple of times before Rush resigned and told them "Way to go! Maybe now you can hire David Duke too!"

There was of course no danger of their missing my sarcasm, because the notion that "racism is good for ratings" is so obviously foolish.

C'mon 2Cent, don't camoflage it and say "controversy is good for ratings". You know what kind of "controversy" Rush has generated for years on his show and what he was trying to stir up on ESPN.

ESPN knew Rush was a racist when they hired him. That's what his radio show was based on in large part.

What they didn't realize (and Rush didn't realize) is that talking on-air on ESPN is different than talking to carefully screened dittohead callers.

I agree this has been a win-win thing - but not for ESPN. It's been win-win for the country as a whole to finally have proof of what a racist Rush really is.

[2cents]

87. Hiring Rush proved to be most controversial...

ESPN took a calculated risk to attract more viewers - it worked, they did attract more viewers (that's one win).

Rush, as expected, stuck his foot in his mouth and generated more publicity/interest.

ESPN exonerated themselves by dumping Rush. If their ratings continue as high or higher (that would be the second win).

[scottxyz]

84. 2Cent, ProfessorGAC, BigDaddyLove and Mixxter need to read ATLIEN

Atlien gets it about the most insightful and courageous comment in Sapp's speech (which you all had trouble getting):

Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up?

Remember, Sapp isn't saying "Anglos are scrubs" - and Rush didn't imply "black are scrubbs" - so please don't try to say Rush and Sapp are two sides of the same coin. (They would have both been racists if this had been all they talked about. But it wasn't. They weren't saying which players were more likely to be scrubs - black or white. They were saying which scrubs were more more likely to be overhyped - black or white.)

Rush implied black scrubs get overhyped {by liberals}. Sapp pointed out that if you're gonna talk about which scrubs get overhyped, it's more likely to be Anglo ones rather than black ones.

[2cents]

88. Forget the scrub bit

Rush implied the media and the league, because of political correctness, favored black players.

Sapp implied the media and the league, because of racism, favored white players.

To me, they're both subjective "Mom likes you best" racial arguments and two sides of the same coin.

[scottxyz]

86. Best post in this thread, Atlien!

Such a breath of fresh air after the many other posters who are trying to equate Sapp with Rush.

Rush didn't say blacks were inferior. He implied inferior black players can be overhyped. He was really trying to paint the media as "liberal", a common ploy by the right.

Sapp didn't say whites were inferior. He replied that if anyone's more likely to be overhyped, it's inferior white players. He reminded us that the media is still quite racist.

Sapp didn't step over the line by pointing out a little-known fact. Rush did step over the line by mouthing a well-worn lie.

[goforit]

61. OMG!!!!!........................John Rocker is a racist KKKlansmen!!!

Hey.....Why doesn't he just go to cry over spilt milk together.

Two total loooooooosers!!!!!!

[camero]

66. Successful Black Quarterbacks

Warren Moon (40,000 career passing yards)
Micheal Vick (Led Atlanta to Playoffs last year)
Doug Williams (Won a Super Bowl)
Dante Culpepper (Vikings are 4-0)
Donovan McNabb (of course)
Shaun King (Took Bucs to NFC Championship as rookie in 99)
Kordell Stewart (Took Steelers to Playoffs twice)

Rush should have done his homework.

[camero]

67. And before I forget

Randall Cunningham

I can't believe I missed him.

[VermontDem2004]

70. How the hell could you forget Steve McNair?

I agree with that list except for Shaun King, he had a great rookie year but since then he really hasn't shined. Also I think Dante should be on that list because in all of his seasons with the exception of last season his QB Rating was in the high 90's, low 100's.

[camero]

75. Yea, I did.

He is one of the toughest and made it to the Super Bowl.

[scottxyz]

78. Great line about which scrubs are being pumped up - Anglo ones, not black

"Do we not have anybody that understands that there's way more scrubs in this game that are Anglos than there are black ones that are being pumped up?"

[Loyal]

80. Rocker is scum

:puke: