US claims bio-weapon found in Iraq

[bemildred]

Weapons of mass destruction (WMD) have been found in Iraq in the form of a vial of botulinum bacteria discovered
by US arms inspectors, the State Department said.

"Botulinum kills people, it kills people in large quantities," spokesman Richard Boucher said. "Botulinum is a weapon
of mass destruction, yes."

"Anything that destroys on a massive scale is a weapon of mass destruction," he said.

His comments came in response to questions about comments made earlier by Secretary of State Colin Powell who
said a report on Saddam Hussein's weapons programs released by lead US inspector David Kay had justified the
decision to go to war against Iraq.

Age.AU

[nadinbrzezinski]

1. God careful there

Botulinum has never been weaponized, and quick ban botox

[Sufi Marmot]

20. Several groups have allegedly produced the toxin...

According to CBWInfo several terrorist groups are believed to have purified the toxin. I'm sure our government and the Soviets/Russians produced it also, but I'll double check. Unlike anthrax, it's not the bacteria itself that gets weaponized, but the purified toxin. But I don't think an old vial of bacteria in a fridge somewhere is a big deal...

-SM

[wryter2000]

2. A vial?

As in one (1) vial? That must be a big vial to hold tons of wmds.

[rfranklin]

14. There was a can of Bon Vivant soup in Saddam's kitchen cabinet...

that stuff's a killer!

More at

http://www.ahherald.com/senior/2003/ss030626_botox_bush.htm

[sam sarrha]

60. Vial could have been an old jar of peach jam lost in the frig with the

power off for 2 months cooking up a most common bacteria.......

[MuseRider]

3. Open a bad can of

green beans? That will kill a couple I guess.

[IndianaGreen]

4. No UN inspectors in Iraq

US has no credibility on WMD, and everyone else in the world expects the US to plant evidence. I am half expecting David Kay to find the same anthrax that was sent to Daschle's office.

[jenk]

5. Isn't that used in the NY Subway system to kill rats?

They found a vial and claim WMD????

[democrat in Tallahassee]

6. don't look in my fridge, they might find microbes in there, too

*

[Must_B_Free]

7. botulinum bacteria - AKA FOOD POISONING

leave some meat out overnight and you can find this WMD anywhere in the world.

[DeathvadeR]

46. Shhhhhhh

You shouldn't tell the Sheeple these things. We must be convinced by what ever means that WMD existed and were going to be used on us....

[atlien]

8. US Media=Comletely Under Control

I am always amazed at the common sense I find in the forums and yet you coulndn't pay a anchorperson to use it and say something credible on live TV. The lies are so obvious and yet not one of the TV News guys/gals will call them on it. They just give the lies more and more air time (and thus, credibility).

The presstitutes are under complete control.

[alcuno]

16. Welcome to DU, atlien

The US media, in general, is a total disgrace. I read things here all the time that couldn't make it by a classroom of 12 year olds yet manage to slip by the crack Washington press corp with nary a blink.

[number6]

54. my feelings exactly

"The US media, in general, is a total disgrace."

[NNN0LHI]

9. Don't these people realize that they are doing themselves no favor?

Note to Richard Boucher: Quit while you are behind.

Don

[kainah]

10. Note the American press didn't even bother to pick this one up

I guess they preferred to just let this little, "No, really, trust us!" pass them by.

[remfan]

11. Um, wasn't that on the list of things we sold them in the 80s?

Listed right after anthrax?

[bemildred]

12. FWIW

Botulinum and anthrax are both naturally occurring bacteria,
botulinum is anaerobic, anthrax is aerobic; having the bacteria
means nothing at all, one might have it for legitimate medical
research reasons, having a vial of the botulin toxin might
mean something, it is one of the most toxic organic poisons known,
but this is just the bacteria, as far as I can see, and it will all
die immediately if he opens the vial.

He's grabbing for straws.

[dkf]

13. See Kos for this

http://www.dailykos.com/

Bacteria in Iraq
Kay's "we didn't find shit in Iraq" report notes that it found "live strains of the deadly botulinum bacteria" in Iraq. This will undoubtedly be used by the administration and its apologists as evidence of Saddam's deadly aspirations (or something like that).

RR, a PhD candidate in pathology and laboratory medicine, wrote in to explain what that meant (or actually, what it didn't mean:

Clostridium botulinum, the bacteria which produces botulinum toxin, is a normal soil bacterium. You've probably ingested large quantities of it yourself, if you've ever eaten vegetables straight out of a garden without washing them thoroughly, or if you've ever eaten unfiltered honey. Live C. botulinum is used in undergraduate microbiology labs as a teaching tool...the live bacteria are not dangerous, are ubiquitous in nature, and are ubiquitous in microbiology labs around the globe--even those not hell-bent on the destruction of American liberty & whatnot.

If Kay said that large quantities of purified botulinum toxin had been found, that would be significant. It's difficult to purify the toxin from the bacteria (which produce the toxin in exceedinly small amounts), and there's no good reason to have lots of it. (Although it would not mean much if only small amounts of purified botulinum toxin were found anywhere--small amounts of the toxin are injected by doctors into patients for the treatment of chronic pain and wrinkles--that's what BoTox is.)

[BattyDem]

45. Wait a minute ...

you're telling me that we bombed the hell out of Iraq because Saddam has a vial of BoTox? Joan Rivers has more than that! :P

[peterh]

15. Oh please…they’re trying to put legs on this…

If this had any friggin significance to it, Pat Roberts would’ve been all over this when he came out of the briefing, instead of sounding very disappointed in his remarks afterward.

[Gin]

18. A scientist had this at home...this story is a shudda- kuda - wudda.

I am so sick of hearing they could, they would, they might.
We are all guilty of intent of something. Including those psycopaths in the mis-administration.

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

21. A UK minister (Peter Hain)

was raving about this on Question Time yesterday in defence of the war. My favorite line though was "Well, the Iraq Survey Group has proved that we were 100% correct all along" (queue boos & hisses from the audience).

This is getting farkin' ridiculous!!

[FauxNewsBlues]

17. Botox

I bet the guy was a plastic surgeon.

[J B]

19. You mean... this isn't The Onion!?

They really said this!?!?!?

Oh, my aching logic centers.

[Rose Siding]

22. It killed over 300 Americans, didn't it?

Potent stuff

[karlschneider]

24. Wry grin. Took me a minute to get yer point. Well taken.

:eyes:

[karlschneider]

23. That is a GODDAMN LIE. Botulism is NOT a WMD.

It is not contagious and would be useless in attempting to kill large numbers of people. The only WMDs are high explosives (including nuclear.)

http://bioterrorism.dc.gov/services/botulism/faq_answ.shtm#3

[Sufi Marmot]

27. It's the pure TOXIN, not the live bacteria....

Just so people are clear here - the kerfuffle over botulism as a WMD isn't because of the bacteria itself, which causes food poisoning, rather the toxin (a specific protein) produced by Clostridium botulinum (which is what makes you sick when you ingest the bacteria and get food poisoning...) When purified in large quantities and "weaponized", it could be potentially used as a biological weapon - one scenario of indeterminate plausibilty has it being sprayed in aerosol form on advancing troops from above - I have no idea whether this scenario is feasible or not.
Botulinum toxin isn't an infectious agent like anthrax, it isn't alive, rather it's just a very complex poison produced by the bacteria.

-SM

Edited for spelling

[karlschneider]

32. Yes, indeed. All the TERISTS need to do is inject some of this stuff into

every goddamn potato in a town and it would be a disaster. How simple can it get?
:grr:
:eyes:

[MisterP]

42. the article said "botulinum bacteria"

which is almost exclusively food-vectored

[Guaranteed]

47. Which can be found on some of the food in your fridge...

....most likely.

[MisterP]

50. (good thing you added the qualifier)

I deal with pelicans with (avian) botulism, and it's not fun, but the bacteria are not really weaponizable; it grows conditionally.

[DeathvadeR]

49. but but but but your missing the point....

If they continue to through big words out for the sheeple to gobble up.. 1 here, we found this there, a can of this here, a vial of that there.... It's only a matter of time before we all believe that there was WMD in back yards of every Iraqie home.

Believe.... Yes Master,,, I hear and obey!!!!!! Weapons were there....

[Braden]

25. food poisoning?

how about real weapons? and an actual delivery system?

still waiting.

[gasperc]

26. this stuff is on the vegetables in your supermarket

oh fuck, this is fucking sick. this is the bacteria on your fucking vegetables in your supermarket. That's why you have to wash them before you eat them. fuck fuck fuck this is bullshit, someone needs to get shot this is fucked up

[quaker bill]

28. Maybe it is just for the Botox

Saddam is getting a bit older, he dyes his hair, perhaps he wants to relax a few wrinkles.

Clostridium botulinum is also the source for Botox.

[goforit]

29. That hasn't been used ..............yet.

Is there proof that the Bush's didn't put it there????

[are_we_united_yet]

30. Yawnnnnnnnn n/t

[Media_Lies_Daily]

31. Gee...if that were true, how come the media hasn't gone to a...

...24-hour format to trumpet the find?

What we have here is a failure to communicate...truthfully.

[chenGOD]

33. So does this mean the people having Botox parties are...

giving aid and support to terrorists?

[comsymp]

43. Yup, and Cher's a WMD

Which now gives * the justification to invade CA if the recall doesn't work.

[truthisfreedom]

34. botox. the other use for botulinum. sheesh. read this article too...

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20031004/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_weapons_hunt&cid=540&ncid=1480

<snip>
"We are more convinced by the Kay report that we did the right thing," Powell told reporters. "Do you think vials of botulism should constitute a weapon of mass destruction? .... They never lost that capability. They never lost that intent."



State Department spokesman Richard Boucher added: "You kill people with botuli. They have no other use."



The vial contained live bacteria that make botulinum toxin — a toxin that can be used as a biological weapon. But experts say there are many, complicated steps between possessing a vial of bacteria and producing enough of the toxin to create a weapon. That would require relatively sophisticated equipment and processing.

<snip>

they do have another use. botox. sheesh, more lies. and look at powell, saying "vials of botulism" when it was ONE vial. at every turn, they twist, distort, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie.

[rocktivity]

35. Dupe, sorry

eom

[rocktivity]

36. So you found a vial of some thing that can "kill in large quantities"

Now all you have to do is explain how that vial was going to get to the United States within 45 minutes.


rocknation

[kodi]

37. with all the practice, you'd have thought they could lie better by now

i watched commander codpiece today and was stunned and actually insulted that the little prick could stand there and call chicken shit chicken salad with a straight face.

this man has no shame. none.

[LeighAnn]

38. Probably just Rummy's Botox <eom>

[Trek234]

39. Please

Did they forgot to remove the "FOR CIA BLACK OPS ONLY" sticker? Oh, no? Good.

[patdem]

40. E-Coli kills people and it was found in abundance in the

Cargil company meet products and the Administration ignored all warnings...and it was going to KILL AMERICANS...

compare and contrast please

[burrowowl]

41. I wonder

how many amateur canners have botulism in their Mason jars.
I' f**king impressed with the Kay report and they want $600 megs more!
If you have an old can good and it is bombed out, you may have botulism!
Botulism is killed by boiling.

[xJlM]

59. If you watch Emeril...

You'd of course already know how important it is to sterilize your canning implementia. Or if you were raised in a country home, by older folks. This is just more bullshit for the Americans too stupid to watch anything other than Fox.

[burrowowl]

44. Reading this, I started to

clean out my frig and couldn't bring myself to destroy the beautiful growth of fungi in a jar of left-over chicken broth, beautiful: orange, brown, green and a little purple.

[jamesinca]

48. Ok so they found 1 vial of C.botulinum

Was it the dreaded dual use item?

Was the scientist a college professor who teaches microbiology or some type of agriculture/ plant science class?

Do they have the equipment to extract the toxin?

Are there any other things around that would suggest that this was not looted from the factories after the invasion?

Do they have the capabilities to transfer the microbe with out killing it, it is an obligate anaerobe.

So many questions, so few answers. Maybe they are so tied up with the leak of a CIA agent that they have not been able to exploit this tasty morsel.

[dArKeR]

51. Inspector plays down bacteria vial - AP Taipei Times

David Kay said that some botulinum that Bush said was proof of a `clandestine' network had been sitting in a scientist's refrigerator for 10 years.

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/front/archives/2003/10/05/2003070432

I've had a half eaten can of Campbell's soup in my fridge for 2 years that's deadier!

[Dr Fate]

52. So why didnt Saddam use it on the troops?

????

[karlschneider]

53. He probably thought the MREs were bad enough.......

;-)

[BonjourUSA]

55. One lonesome vial, hidden in a drawer or on a shelf ???!!!!

This poor little vial was waiting there for a very lucky inspector !!! :bounce:

had it to whistle him ?

[Nlighten1]

56. Boy they are getting quite a pile there.

throw that on top of the centrifuge that was buried for 12 years and you have got yourself a real dangerous regime.

[Bragi]

57. Ladies and gentlemen, the President of the United States...

<GOP ovation>

Thank you. I stand before this joint session of Congress today to ask for your support for launching war against Iraq.

<GOP ovation>

I ask this not because I want to, but because intelligence sources have revealed that an Iraqi scientist has had a vial of botulism in his household fridge since 1993.

Furthermore, intelligence has also confirmed that another scientist has a suspicious hunk of metal buried in his backyard, metal which, according to my good friend Tony Blair, could be used to build a nuclear weapon in less than 45 minutes.

These are indeed clear and grave threats to the security of our country, and the world. I ask for your support in mounting an invasion and occupation to liberate this oil rich nation. And to build democracy, or something like that. Err. Imminent threat.

Thank you. I look forward to your support.

<GOP ovation>

- W

[sam sarrha]

58. that organism is everywhere, thats why you pressure cook fruits and

vegetables when you can them, I grew up in a farm and we produced and stored 90% of our food. it only produces toxin in the absence of 02 and acidity. i would like to know if it was a pure culture, I was a biologist and did taxonomy on bacteria... oh oh.. now i'll be investigated..

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

61. Why do I see an image of

a lone man, suddenly bursting forth from a half-collapsed building out on the edge of the desert, sprinting down the road, holding the single vial of goo as if it were the olympic torch? American soldiers, weapons raised in grateful salute, line the boulevard as he strides manfully along, grinning with pride at the enormity of the discovery.

The soldiers begin the chant slowly, gutterally: "Wmd. Wmd. WMD! WMD! W M D!!!!!!!! (Join in, folks! Stomp your feet! Clap your hands! WMD! WMD! WMD!)

The crowd goes wild! We did it! Let's go attack Syria and Iran now! WE FOUND A VIAL OF WWW MMM DDD!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Emillereid]

62. This is no big deal --

every microbiology lab in the world has botulinum. If a vial of botulinum bacteria is now the excuse for the war, this administration is well past desparate, they're embarrassing. Botulinum bacteria are wide spread. Routinely is found in soil and food. The toxin the bacteria produces is the poisonous part and there is no suggestion that they found purified, weaponized toxin. This is horse pucky, pure and simple.

[imax2268]

63. man...

I better get that Burrito I bought from Taco Bell a few months ago out of my fridge...it might be considered a WMD...

[raifield]

64. Actually...

Anything coming from Taco Bell could be considered WAD, Weapons of Ass Destruction. Well, for me at least.

Your two-month old Burrito could defintely kill me, so...SWAT team for you!