LA Times : 3 More Women Allege Misconduct

[Manix]

Three more women said Friday that Arnold Schwarzenegger had grabbed or groped them.

http://tinyurl.com/pola

[annagull]

1. The "Predator" is facing reality

Yah, Ahnold, you grab boobies and women get maaad. Oh, and Maria is a manlywoman for putting up with it.

[Say_What]

2. Don't think ahhhnold is gonna terminate California anytime soon

This guy is a real creep.

From the article:

...Harwell said her job on "Twins" frequently required her to get Schwarzenegger from his dressing room. She said he regularly stripped naked in front of her. "I never had that experience with other actors," Harwell said. "It was just inappropriate."

She said that one time, as she waited for Schwarzenegger to sign a release in his room, he began taking off his clothes. "I said, 'Can you please sign this? I have to go back to the set.' " Harwell said Schwarzenegger, dressed in undershorts, approached her and started pulling her down on the bed.

"He said, 'I'll sign it, why don't you lay down next to me?' " Harwell said. "He was laughing like it was all a big joke. Well, it wasn't. It was scary."

When someone called on her walkie-talkie, Harwell said, Schwarzenegger let her go. After that, Harwell said, she always made sure another person accompanied her on the set, and she avoided entering Schwarzenegger's dressing room.

[dd123]

3. What would happen if Ahnold won

and these women keep on popping up?

What would happen if one decides to press charges?

Yikes.

[kskiska]

5. They were discussing this on Buchanan & Press

I don't remember who the two guests were, but they were saying that if Arnold is elected, this will only get much worse.

Even with Clinton, most of the women didn't come out until he was elected president.

[realFedUp]

50. Laurence O'Donnell and another reporter

O'Donnell rocked. He said more of this would come
out even if Arnold won.

This article names names.

[FlaGranny]

56. I think you

mean that with Clinton, most of the women didn't start coming out until they were promised nose jobs and cash by Scaife and friends, didn't you? :-)

[LibDemAlways]

9. Hell at the rate they're popping up

maybe a class action lawsuit will be in order. Would love to see the creep be forced to pony up damages to every woman he's groped. Just might bankrupt him.

[Booberdawg]

4. Keep it coming!!

Gawd - these accounts of his behavior are always so fucking disgusting. I don't understand for the LIFE of me why men like Ahnold think behaving like such crass pigs makes them so irresistible.

:puke:

[IndianaGreen]

12. Where is the evidence?

What I have seen so far is the Democratic version of the Arkansas project. There have been several versions of the "Hitler" quote, two of them by the same producer. As to the allegations of sexual misconduct, none of the allegations have been corroborated, while four of the six alleged victims remain unidentified.

Seeing Davis speak of being disturbed about the sexual charges against Arnold is laughable when one considers that this is the same Davis that a few days earlier shared the same platform with convicted sexual perjurer Bill Clinton.

And seriously, when was the last time that Gloria Allred stood for anything that was not a self-agrandizing ego trip for herself?

We have seen many Democratic candidates in the past being subjected to the same kind of last-minute attacks by desperate Republican opponents. I am not about to endorse the same sordid tactics just because the Democrats are doing it.

Nothing can save Davis, and you might as well accept that fact. The only viable alternative, no matter how one votes on the recall, is to vote for Cruz Bustamante. A vote to retain Davis is a vote for the status-quo. A vote for Arnold is a vote for Pete Wilson & company. Bustamante is the man of the hour!

[KharmaTrain]

16. I Agree

After talking to family and friends in California the past couple nights it's almost certain Davis is going down. And your point about it being about the "status quo" is spot on. Many, if given the chance to recall the manchild would do the same thing. They're just honked off and this recall is their chance to lash out at all-things political. Unfortunately it's a Democrat that's their target.

I'm really disappointed in what I've seen in the Bustamante campaign...if there is one. Either the media is totally ignoring it, or he's just so boring no one cares to cover what he's saying or doing. Seems like after the Indian Casino stuff broke, he shrunk into the hole and we haven't seen him since. Then the other day I read that there's a group that's already looking to slate him for Congress next year...a true indication that even his most loyal diehards don't see much of a chance for him.

This last minute sleeze is working FOR this stupid android. Some talking head on Keith Olbermann made the point that the Sliminator's campaign warned that this stuff was coming down the pike and the fact that so much got dumped in the last week of the campaign is making a lot of people just ignore what's being put out there...and the more that's paraded, the more they feel this is political overkill.

A majority of Americans are pissed today...but you can't find two who can agree on what they're pissed about the most. But one thing for certain, they're pissed at politicians. There are the 20-30% of us who are partisan in one direction and there's the equal number on the other side, but that number in the middle is pissed, too and they only pay attention to politics when its shoved in their faces and if they're mad, pity be the incumbent.

[Booberdawg]

17. There are 11 women alleging this so far and Ahnold had a chance

to deny the accusations - but he didn't. Instead - he admitted to past behavior unbecoming and apologized for it.

And, 11 women coming forward with personal accounts of his boorish and predatory behavior towrds them and you dismiss this out of hand because four of them remain unidentified. :wtf:

You seem to be stretching to great lengths to minimize facts that reflect poorly on this Republican meathead joke of a candidate Ahnold and stretch just as far in the other direction condemning Davis for sharing space with Clinton who lied about a fucking consensual blowjob. Jeeze - why is it always about Clinton when a Republican is revealed as a liar, a crook, or a pig?

It is POSSIBLE to be for Bustamante without trashing Davis and pumping up Ahnold the Republican, ya know. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

18. There was nothing consensual about Juanita Brodderick!

The hypocrisy of both major parties is astonishing!

[Booberdawg]

23. I ask again -

What the fuck does Clinton have to do with Arnold or the California recall?? Why do you frame your arguments with Republican talking points?

I don't have a clue what happened with Juanita Brodderick and neither do you. All I know is that Ken Starr spent a lot of time and money investigating Clinton's underwear and he didn't come up with anything he could use with Juanita Brodderick.

You must be a Green.

[IndianaGreen]

24. We do know what happened with Juanita Brodderick

it was in the grand jury testimony that she gave, and she did testify that Clinton groped her in the White House shortly after her husband had died.

We cannot use one standard with Clinton, just because he had a "D" after his name, and another with Republicans because they had an "R" after theirs.

[rooboy]

28. Juanita Broaddrick didn't testify...

that Clinton groped her after her husband died - that was Willey.

[IndianaGreen]

29. You are right, Brodderick was not groped, she was raped.

We should hold Arnold to the same standards that we held Clinton.

Bill Clinton, Jack Rabbit

(Irreverent Opinion)

Nothing sickens me more than the specter of famous-name feminists jumping to the defense of President Clinton whenever a new story emerges about his sexual habits. I voted for the lyin', cheatin, cutie pie twice, in line with the "lesser evil" theory of electoral politics, and I'm not sorry I did, but you won't catch me apologizing for him in public. On the other hand, I haven't been screaming for his resignation, either. Let's face it: the amiable rake with the wham-bam-thank-you-ma'am compulsions has shadow-boxed feminists into a corner. It's time for my sisters who sold their souls to the Democratic Party to fall on their swords and admit they've been mightily bamboozled, rather than pooh-pooh each fresh accusation.

The cost of defending our prez has become entirely too high. It's turned into a repudiation of everything we've said for years about rape and sexual harassment. It's placed us in the disgusting, anti-feminist position of blaming the victim. It's ceded the moral high ground to cynical right-wingers who gleefully employ our rhetoric for their own nefarious ends. And it's prevented us from reminding the public that the charismatic liar with the crooked finger and lopsided grin has failed us on the important issues over and over.

<snip>

I do see fine distinctions between the Jones, Willey, and Brodderick stories. I've always suspected that he got his signals crossed with Jones; the scenario that makes the most sense is that he stupidly mistook her for a professional prostitute. And evidently he mistook the distraught Willey for a willing and eager Monica type. But Brodderick's story cannot be explained away. Yet you should hear some of my feminist sisters saying lame things like "She shouldn't have let him into her hotel room."

She shouldn't have? Well, in retrospect I guess she shouldn't have, but remember, the venue was his suggestion. Brodderick thought the meeting was arranged to discuss nursing home regulations. Men take meetings in their hotel rooms all the time. Why should Brodderick have suspected that the earnest young pol was going to jump her the minute the door was closed? Okay, we have to concede that women still can't claim the privileges that men take for granted, like take a meeting in a hotel room without worrying whether it looks like an open invitation to rape or seduction, but feminists should not be blaming Brodderick for Bill Clinton's egregious misreading of her intentions. Rapists always say, "Gee, I thought that's what she wanted."

http://www.susanbrownmiller.com/html/opinion-clinton.html

[Media_Lies_Daily]

66. You really need to get your facts straight about Broaddrick...

...because IMHO, each additional posting of comments like yours just continues to cloud the real story.

Ever hear of the book "The Hunting of the President" by Joe Conason and Gene Lyons, and published in 2000 by St. Martin's Press in New York? Ever hear of the Arkansas Project, an operation funded by the American Spectator, who received their funds from Richard Mellon Scaife?

From page 345-346 of the aforementioned book:

"Nor was Paula Jones the only witness called whose story was far from persuasive. With the exception of Larry Nichols, Larry Case, and Say Mcintosh, virtually the whole cast of characters from the sexual side of the 'Clinton scandals' either filed afadavits or gave depositions between October 1997 and January 1998. Juanita Broaddrick had done both, adamantly insisting that the allegations made in Phillip Yoakum's widely circulated letter claiming Bill Clinton had sexually assaulted her in a Little Rock hotel in 1978 were spurious. No copies of tape recordings Yoakum claimed to have made of her allegedly confirming the charge ever materialized. Nothing surfaced that hadn't previously been reported. None of the president' accusers had done very well."

Webster's defines "spurious" as: "2. false; counterfeit; not genuine".

The story, as promoted by those associated with the Arkansas Project, was completely false. The Arkansas Project used her to attempt to do even more danage to Clinton's public image. Knowing how the mainstream media is controlled, Broaddrick never have been given the television airtime to tell her side of the story.

Please note the timing of the filing of the deposition and affadavit given by Juanita Broaddrick as sometime between October 1997 and January 1998. Clinton was president until January 2001, wasn't he?

I'm surprised that anyone, particularly if they knew about the Arkansas Project, believed ANY of the nonsense leaked to the press during Clinton's presidency. The only way anyone could continue to believe the "Broaddrick rape story" was true would be to also believe that Lyons and Conason are lying.

========================================

The information posted above was previously posted in the following thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=456048#457131

[shrike]

78. As a victim of sexual assault myself

I do not find Broaddrick credible. And believe me, I was more than willing to give her the benefit of the doubt at first. The last straw for me was learning that she was earning cash as Bill Clinton's rape victim. She was on tour at one point, peddling her story at who knows how much a pop, to conservative groups. Sorry, a sexual assault victim does not behave like that. I am willing to believe she had consensual sex and then regretted it, but this does not fit the definition of rape. There is also the possibility the sex got rougher than she would have liked. There we are on murky ground.

Plus, Paula Jones' account describes Clinton making a (admittedly very crude)sexual advance, then backing down immediately when she said no. Doesn't sound like the behavior of a man who goes where he's not wanted.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NicoleM]

55. I don't know if you're aware but

Bill Clinton is not the president anymore.

I don't know what Bill Clinton did. As somebody else said somewhere, his personality is more "seducer" than "groper." However, it's over.

What Bill Clinton did or did not do does not in any way mitigate someone else's sexual assaults.

These stories have been around for a long time. Premiere magazine published some of them several years ago. Arnold does not deny it. He didn't then and he doesn't now.

Furthermore, there were witnesses to a lot of these assaults. He did them in front of people who are probably too afraid of never working again to come forward and corroborate, but nobody has said "I was there and he didn't do it," either, AFAIK.

[piece sine]

73. connect the dots

if you offended by Clinton's public and media treatment on personal behavior matters, you can either stick to your values and denounce when this sort dirt re-appears or you can spin like a weathervane and change your values every time it's politically convenient. The choice is yours --just remember to live with your choices.

Although I'm in the gay world, I managed to get my fanny pinched a few times without it ruining my life. In Europe, they are scratching their heads over America's puritanical hissy-fit. I, for one, am dismayed to see so many lefties act like bible-belters.

[The Zanti Regent]

37. Brodderick lied

Stop spreading GOP bullshit.

She lied. Period.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

67. Actually, Broaddrick didn't lie about anything...

...but Phillip Yoakum, a man associated with the Arkansas Project, certainly did in a letter that he wrote and circulated widely. His letter contained the allegations that Broaddrick had been sexually assaulted by Clinton, and the Starr team attempted to run with it.

But even Ken Starr had to eventually back away from that story.

Please see my post #66 in this thread.

[Frances]

51. I am a woman

and I have been asking myself about the difference between Arnold and Clinton.

When I look at Clinton, I see Elvis Presley. I believe that women threw themselves at Clinton just as they threw themselves at Elvis. Monica admitted that she flashed her thong at Clinton. I did not find Juanita believable because I don't think Clinton ever needed to rape a woman. There were plenty of women begging him for a sexual encounter. Clinton is like the hero in a romance novel. He is a woman's idea of sex--warm and lovable and teddy bear like.

What many people are saying about Arnold is that he was the aggressor. The women who have stepped forward did not throw themselves at Arnold. He grabbed their breasts and/or buttocks. They felt degraded. I don't think Arnold wants women to come on to him. He wants to be the cave man and grab the women. He is Conan the Barbarian.

That's just my assessment as a woman.

[intheozone]

74. I, also as a women, agree with you

I believe you assessment is 100% accurate. I would only add that in Clinton's case, there is a vast right-wing conspiracy to degrade and destroy the man -- but in Arnie's case, those same right-wing nuts are praising him and telling us to forget about the past.

[CatWoman]

79. absolutely

apples and oranges.

Clinton didn't go around grabbing people -- the women came to him.

This is not the case with Arnold -- he was clearly the aggressor.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

70. Read my post #66 in this thread, and get your facts straight.

[Le Taz Hot]

43. Oh, IG, where DO I begin?

This is no Arkansas project. There's no big money or Democratic version of Scaiff going on here. No one's being paid to come out about these incidences AND all have been coroborated by people the victims relayed the story to at the time it happened.

This is iminently different from Clinton where for example Paula Jones stated to friends and family that she wanted to be Clinton's girlfriend then, 20 years later, when approached by operativs of the Arkansas Project decided it was sexual harrassment and was PAID WELL to come out with the story.

Gennifer Flowers had a CONSENSUAL affair with Clinton and again, was paid by the Arkansas Project to come out with her story.

Monica Lewinsky engaged in CONSENSUAL oral sex with Clinton and it would have stayed between the two of them had the sweet young thing not naively confided in Linda Tripp who then furnished the information to a Republican-paid book publisher looking for dirt on Clinton.

The "Hitler" comments are from a PUBLISHED magazine article.

Clinton was NOT convicted of perjury because perjury was not one of the charges. He was convicted of lying to Congress and no, it's not the same thing.

Gloria Alred, love her or hate her, is a feminist attorney who stands up for the rights of women and many of her cases are pro bono.

Every woman in the history of the universe has had to deal with a masher at sometime in her life. The effect, though not life threatening, is humiliating and, depending upon the age of the victim, the effects can last a lifetime.

And may I say that I'm sickened by your complete lack of understanding and empathy toward the victims. I've no idea what gender you are but if you are a male, ANY of them could have been your daughter, wife, or mother. If you are a female, you're no better than the self-loathing Stepford women who support this molester. It's amazing that even here on DU groping is relegated to the "boys will be boys" category by some.

[IndianaGreen]

48. I hear you, and I understand where you are coming from

but you must also understand that I am looking at this from a another point of view. Slander and libel are common occurrences in the closing days of a campaign. Accusations are made at this late date precisely because there is little time to refute the charges. The more so when there is an endless parade of parties alleging injury.

Why wasn't this brought up right after Arnold announced? This is the question that many voters are asking. Why wasn't Arnold sued? I don't know the answers to those questions, so all I have is my belief that there is a presumption of innocence, and that if the case were to be tried in court there must be at least enough grounds on the preponderance of the evidence to find that Arnold was civilly at fault.

The substantive issue that should be before the voters is being drowned out by the sex allegations. Read the thread that FloridaPat posted in GD so that you see what I am talking about:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=468716

[Media_Lies_Daily]

68. The LA Times took seven weeks to research, fact-check, and write the...

...stories contained in their articles. How quickly do YOU believe the information should have come out? Don't you think the LA Times owes their readers the facts before they publish information of this magnitude?

As to why each individual didn't take Arnold to court when the incidents first took place, who in their right mind is going to attempt to bring down a man as wealthy and politically well-connected as Arnold without equal backing? And I doubt seriously that any of the women knew that there had been others that Arnold had gone after.

[FlemingsGhost]

77. A curious argument from someone named: "Media_Lies_Daily"

Wouldn't you agree?

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. Hmm - NOT really takin Aahnold's side here - BUT

- sorta convenient that all these "sins" from 15 - 20 years ago start popping up 5 days for the election ??

- guess ya can't blame them tho

- Monika got her own talk show outta "talkin' it up"

- I admit, I didn't think of it that way until I saw Jay Leno do a spoof on his show tonight about just that - -

[truthisfreedom]

10. don't be an idiot.

these women have made clear why they didn't come out in the past... most of them are part of the hollywood acting scene and they don't want to be labeled as "difficult" (blacklisted), so they kept their mouths shut until they couldn't live with the knowledge that he might actually have a real position of power... a steriod-created freak born in another country with a nazi father, in charge of the 5th largest economy in the world. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE COMING OUT OF THE WOODWORK.

[IndianaGreen]

14. Why have some Democrats adopted Freeper language?

All I have seen so far is the same bile that I heard from Freepers when they went berserk when a waitress at Chuy's had the audacity to call the police on Jenna and Barbara Bush for trying to pass a fake ID in order to get alcoholic drinks.

Pat Buchanan said once that Republicans and Democrats are two wings of the same bird of prey. I hope that next year we confront Bush on the issues instead of making a public spectacle of ourselves as we are today.

Arnold should not be governor simply because he is a front man for the likes of Pete Wilson and David Dreier, and those are the men that will be running California if Arnold gets elected. The rest of this Hitler and sexual allegations is nothing but last minute bullshit that has no bearing on the recall question.

Come Wednesday, when Governor Bustamante takes office, the people screaming today about Hitler quotes and groping will fade to black, never to be seen or heard from again (and will never have to face cross examination in a court of law!). Another Hollywood creation to feed a media frenzy!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

69. Why have some "democrats" chosen to believe what they've...

...been told by the Freepers?

[BQueen]

11. There is a certain serendipity, however

no more so than with Anita Hill/Clarence Thomas. If you go after a public figure on this stuff as a woman, you go in knowing that you will be vilified. It's not a pleasant prospect for anyone. The body builder's wife worried about what he might do to her husband's career. The film industry underlings worried about their own jobs - who they gonna fire, AS, or them?

My feeling about the timing is that these women started hearing all this garbage in the media about how AS was gonna win it, and felt they just couldn't allow that to happen, knowing what they know. Same as Anita Hill reasonably thought Clarence Thomas had a snowball's chance of getting on the Supreme Court, but when she saw it happening, civic duty took precedence over personal privacy/security.

I'm disgusted at the number of times I heard RWers say Anita Hill was seeking attention. Who in the world would want *that* kind of attention: Rush Limbaugh calling you names, those arrogant Repugs grilling you on national TV? Ugh!

[IndianaGreen]

15. Anita Hill was a respected law professor

and she had specificity to her charges against Clarence Thomas. There is no comparison between Professor Hill and the so-called witnesses that Gloria Allred paraded on TV yesterday.

Amazing how the presumption of innocence is ignored by Republicans and Democrats when it is politically expedient!

[0007]

21. Glad I missed seeing Gloria Allred

maybe it's because I don't hang out at places where Gloria appears. And I still can't get over the Thomas and Hill debacle.

[KayLaw]

32. You are mistaken

This report is part of a seven-week investigation by the LA Times which would put the start about two months before the election. Furthermore, according to the Times, none of the women approached the paper.
As far as the women coming forward now, one would expect the article to have that effect on victims too timid and isolated to speak up before.

[Darth_Kitten]

45. Actually, the info has been the net......

for a while......I knew about it before the mainstream media picked up on it.

[Gin]

54. When a person runs for public office...it changes the equation...

The time to disclose is NOW! He has not changed. If he manages to get in...stand by...the side show will only get worse.

[PurityOfEssence]

93. Ever work in the business?

I guarantee you that people regularly put up with things out of fear of losing work. It happens a lot.

Stars can basically do as they please, believe me.

I know one of these women personally and professionally; she's perfectly honest and is risking loss of income--more like assuring it--to come forward.

[BQueen]

7. Linda Hamilton told a great story on So Graham Norton

about an incident while filming T2. She was laughing about how it backfired on Ahnold, but all this coverage made me remember it.

They needed a double in T2 to play Sarah Connor as she was in T1 (flashback maybe?), and Linda was already rock-solid. She said (and I think she mentioned AS was at the table for this discussion), "Well, I have a twin." So her twin came in to do the scenes, and one day Linda walks onto the set to see her sister bent over to pick something up and AS grabbing her backside and making those familiar motions. Her sister calmly looked over her shoulder and dead-panned, "I'll bet you think I'm Linda!"

Makes me wonder now whether he did or not. Linda probably would have been able to knock him on his gluteus maximus at that point.

[0007]

22. I'm gonna have to see one of Arnold's film.

I've yet to see one!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

8. Bernie Ward is covering this right now.

[Resistance Is Futile]

13. Show me the money

Time for some plausibly deniable backroom operator to pull a Scaife and fund these victims' quests for justice. Nothing will bring substantive alligations and lawsuits out into the open like a blank cheque. Just look at what dragging $100 bills through trailer parks did for the Texas Idiot Party in their drive to dismantle Clinton.

[Room101]

19. LA Times- Link

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/la-me-cases4oct04-1,1,3896705.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[IndianaGreen]

20. On closer scrutinity, what was she doing inside Arnold's trailer?

Regarding the alleged incidents on the "Twins" set, Schwarzenegger said through spokesman Sean Walsh that "neither of these events occurred."

Walsh said he had spoken to "Twins" director Ivan Reitman, along with the producer, publicist and others who worked on the film, "all of whom were on the set almost nonstop. All have said that they never witnessed this and would find it impossible to believe that this would have occurred."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/la-me-cases4oct04-1,1,3896705.story?coll=la-home-headlines

[Booberdawg]

25. Oh puh-leeeeze! Can men not be responsible for their own behavior??

"On closer scrutinity, what was she doing inside Arnold's trailer?"

What the fuck difference does it make why she was there??

Don't you understand business is conducted in actor's trailers and they are not furnished to actors for the sole purpose of fucking?

And are you suggesting that a woman's mere presence in a room alone with a man gives him permission to GROPE and MOLEST her?? Does it make it more acceptable to you for a man to act like an ASSHOLE and make unwanted, lewd gestures to women if they are alone?? Jesus H. fucking Christ on a stick and Holy Nipples of Mary! I guess we just can't expect men to take ANY responsibility for themselves, can we? "She made me do it" - typical abuse excuse for wife beaters as well.

I'm happy to say I don't think most men feel the way you do. I have had many male aquaintances over the years and have spent time alone with many of them as well and not once have I ever been GROPED by any of them. I guess I expect a little more integrity out of men than you do.

For the sake of argument - let's say the woman was stupid for going into Ahnolds trailor alone. I mean, this chick is a real shitforbrains idiot. A dumbfuck. So my question is: Is it okay to molest idiots? Is it okay to rape them too? Because, afterall, they are idiots, and men can't be responsible for their own behavior.

[IndianaGreen]

26. What I am saying is that there is conflicting evidence in here

and that none of the alleged victims have been subjected to any scrutinity, and never will. After Tuesday's election the alleged victims will disappear from view, before their allegations are further explored by the media.

The voters will equate this sleazy with Davis, and Davis style of campaigning, and it will solidify their desire to recall the governor.

[Booberdawg]

30. No. What you said was "what was she doing inside Arnold's trailer?"

And earlier in the thread you dismissed the fact that 11 women have come forward with personal accounts of groping and lewd behavior because, you point out, 4 of these women are unidentifed. :eyes:

This is Clinton's fault too. :eyes: :eyes:

And last but not least, it means that Davis is sleazy.:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

The Republican Party thanks you.

[IndianaGreen]

36. Davis is not sleazy, he is just plain incompetent

and he will be recalled on Tuesday.

Now, these are the choices we have today (since Davis is obviously not going to stepdown in favor of Bustamante):

1. We can continue playing the sleazy politics that the GOP made infamous during the Clinton sex scandals, and lose the election to Wilson's puppet, or

2. We can go back to the issues and attack Arnold for what he is, a front man for the corporate moguls, as described by Greg Palast in an story posted by FloridaPat in GD:

ARNOLD UNPLUGGED - IT'S HASTA LA VISTA TO $9 BILLION IF THE GOVERNATOR IS SELECTED
Friday Oct 3, 2003

It's not what Arnold Schwarzenegger did to the girls a decade back that should raise an eyebrow. According to a series of memoranda our office obtained today, it's his dalliance with the boys in a hotel room just two years ago that's the real scandal.

The wannabe governor has yet to deny that on May 17, 2001, at the Peninsula Hotel in Los Angeles, he had consensual political intercourse with Enron chieftain Kenneth Lay. Also frolicking with Arnold and Ken was convicted stock swindler Mike Milken.

Now, thirty-four pages of internal Enron memoranda have just come through this reporter's fax machine tell all about the tryst between Maria's husband and the corporate con men. It turns out that Schwarzenegger knowingly joined the hush-hush encounter as part of a campaign to sabotage a Davis-Bustamante plan to make Enron and other power pirates then ravaging California pay back the $9 billion in illicit profits they carried off.

Here's the story Arnold doesn't want you to hear. The biggest single threat to Ken Lay and the electricity lords is a private lawsuit filed last year under California's unique Civil Code provision 17200, the "Unfair Business Practices Act." This litigation, heading to trial now in Los Angeles, would make the power companies return the $9 billion they filched from California electricity and gas customers.

It takes real cojones to bring such a suit. Who's the plaintiff taking on the bad guys? Cruz Bustamante, Lieutenant Governor and reluctant leading candidate against Schwarzenegger.

http://www.gregpalast.com/

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=468716

[Booberdawg]

38. Bustamante should drop out and endorse Davis

Bustamante should have never interfered in the first place.

And the Greens shouldn't have been out collecting signatures to start this recall in the first place either.

Clinton still has nothing to do with this. Get over it.

Ahnold does not get a free pass for sleazy behavior that he is not willing to deny and so much as admitted to and apologized for yesterday morning. You want to minimize it and dismiss it out of hand - I think it IS an issue.

I've seen the Palast story. I'm not sure it's enough at this stage of the game to undo the damage the Green Party has contributed to this mess.

[KayLaw]

35. That was Arnold's doing

When he issued his blanket apology and admission of guilt and ran for cover in his bus, he cut off further discussion of the charges. We are not discussing evidence needed for an actual conviction here, we are talking about an election and whether or not there is evidence that Arnold's behavior and demeanor and moral fiber add up to what makes for a good governor. And I really don't think you should say Bill Clinton raped Broderick since he was not convicted nor did he admit to it.

[joycep]

92. I can not understand your reasoning

Arnold admitted to doing this stuff. What else do you need?

[theHandpuppet]

27. Thanks, Booberdawg!!

After reading an increasingly offensive series of posts by IndianaGreen, I was just about to get myself kicked off DU when you made this great post. Thanks!

[Booberdawg]

33. Glad you didn't have to make the ultimate sacrifice!!

And I agree. Increasingly offensive. "What was she doing in his trailor anyway" just blew me over the edge.:eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

34. A juror would ask precisely that sort of question

and the answer will bear some weight on the juror's decision.

[Booberdawg]

40. We are not in a courtroom!

This is in the court of public opinion. And I consider the implication of your question highly offensive for the reasons I have already stated above. You have already demonstrated in this thread that no amount of evidence would satisfy you that ahnold is a pig. Not even his own admission would satisfy you without actual footage of the incident.

I have an idea! I think you should encourage Ahnold to sue all these women for libel. They have obviously all entered into a conspiracy against him and are willing to jeopardize their credibility and integrity, and subject themselves to public scrutiny (including suggestions that they were just ASKING FOR IT if they were ever alone with him) just to smear him unjustly. I really think ahnold ought to see a lawyer and throw the book at these women.

Do you think he would be willing to do that? Really You are so anxious to consult a jury. Why not?

[brook]

72. Well then, let me...

answer it for you.

The young lady in question may have been a 2nd asst. director; a DGA trainee - perhaps a lowly production assistant. She may even have been in the prop dept. or wardrobe. There are many reasons why someone, male or female, in those positions (and others) would be required to enter an actor's trailer -all legitimate in the course of conducting the business of film making. It is not an open invitation to sexual misconduct. I know this because I worked in Hollywood for many years and have entered many trailers.

[IndianaGreen]

76. Yes, but the question would invariably be asked

Assuming a civil trial, the question would be asked in the first place by the plaintiff's counsel to defeat any defenses of consensual sex by the defendant (Arnold).

[brook]

80. and I'm saying....

It's a question easily disposed of - no matter who asks it.
People stream into those trailers all day long on legitimate errands. The young lady in question was in Arnold's trailer as part of whatever her function on the film was.

Although I take exception to this kind of question as a woman- as a former film professional, I am trying to show you that this approach would be a non-starter. That's all.

[Le Taz Hot]

44. Next question . . .

"What was she wearing?" :puke:

[IndianaGreen]

46. Actually such a question was asked by the prosecutor in the Tyson case

in order to shut the door to any defenses of consensual sex, Sarah Washington was asked why she went unescorted to Mike Tyson's hotel room at such late hour. Sarah answer was that she was expecting to meet Tyson and have her picture taken with him (she actually took a camera with her). Tyson was convicted!

[Le Taz Hot]

47. That "whooshing" sound you hear, IG

is my point flying over your head. :eyes:

[IndianaGreen]

52. I fear we are both missing each other's points.

Yes, if Arnold did all of the things he is alleged to have done he should be held accountable for it.

Do I believe the accusations? No

Do I disbelieve the accusations? No

We need more information, and also need corroboration.

[Le Taz Hot]

57. Corroboration was furnished

Read the L.A. Times article again. The victims confided in others at the time of the incident. The L.A. Times did their homework and all incidents were confirmed.

[IndianaGreen]

60. The Greg Palast story that I alluded in another post on this thread

is more effective and believable that anything that Gloria Allred is advocating.

Two million absentee ballots have already been cast in this election. I wonder if they will determine the outcome of this election...

I will re-read the LA Times story.

[Le Taz Hot]

61. I've already blasted the Palast story

but frankly, sex sells and that's what's getting the publicity right how. We have 3 days and we need to latch on to anything right now that gets the headlines.

Btw, I see Koby Bryant is in the news again today. "Hey, look over there!" (sigh)

[IndianaGreen]

63. that's another story...

Do NBA stars get breaks that no one else gets?

BTW, good job on spreading the Palast story to the mainstream media.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

89. Have you ever been on a film set?

I have. Lots of them.

From what that woman is describing it is perfectly in keeping with several jobs on the set, the most likely being some sort of production assistant. They act as "gophers" on the set, oftentimes being responsible for calling the talent back onto the set when the director is ready for a take. There are LONG intervals during shooting during which a star will return to their trailer to take a break, make a costume change, etc. When the director is ready to go, the PA will go to the talent's caravan and request their presence on the set. Most often that involves knocking on the door and entering the trailer to let the actor know the status of shooting. Incidentially, most often, these PA's are women.

Totally common. Totally above board.

[Susang]

96. I have

And you are completely correct in your assessment. PAs, makeup artists, costumers and many other jobs require going to and entering star's trailers. IG implying that there was something wrong with her being there could only be made by someone totally ignorant of the film industry.

[PurityOfEssence]

97. A.D.s go into trailers all the time; this is THE NORM, not an exception

When you're dealing with stars, you ALWAYS go into their trailers. They don't want to be outside doing business, even if it's signing their Exhibit G (the daily SAG sign-in and out sheet) or to be handed a call sheet. Stars, especially big ones, don't hang out outside between shots, they keep well out of sight.

When you're dealing with a major star, sometimes their personal assistant will take care of that for you, but usually, the assistants are above that kind of thing too. It would be unusual to not go into the trailer; this is by far the standard operating procedure.

[nwstrn]

39. Will voters care?

Sadly, many California voters will likely agree with Indiana Green and vote for Arnie, thinking that all of the women are liars, deserved to have been groped, and/or are tools of the vast left wing conspiracy.
The short time frame for the recall is precisely why Arnie got involved. There have been rumors about him running for office for years, and the problem always was that his background would catch up to him. Now it may be too late. Many will see the October surprise, like Bush's DWI, as a dirty trick. So, if a Repub gropes women, just remember---it's the Democrats' fault.

[Booberdawg]

41. "and the problem always was that his background would catch up to him"

yet that reputation is easily dismissed by a liberal on a Democratic forum when several women come forward with personal accounts.

"So, if a Repub gropes women, just remember---it's the Democrats' fault."

Yes, as we have seen in this thread, it was Clintons fault again.:eyes:

[rocketdem]

42. I don't think that people care

After 8 years of ratcheting up the rhetoric about imaginary scandals of the Clinton administration, the Repugs have effectively dulled the senses of the voters to such things. Most people, I'm afraid, are going to shrug their shoulders, make excuses for Arnold, and blame it all on politics.

"It's certainly not as bad as everyone says," they'll say while remembering the fact that none of the Clinton supposed-scandals ever amounted to anything.

"So what? He had a lively youth," they'll say remembering of course that Henry Hyde drew the line at youthful indiscretions of someone in their forties. Shoot, even the occupant of the White House was a drunken slob until he turned forty and look how wonderful he turned out to be.

"Besides," they'll say, "having the Terminator as governor would be really neato."

[robbedvoter]

49. But what about the Hitler thingy? No apologies yet on that!

As for the 3 - does it mean 3 more apologies?

[IndianaGreen]

53. Read the MSNBC story on the "retraction" by the detractor

SUPPORT ON NAZI CHARGE

Schwarzenegger did get something of a boost Friday in his denial of ever having praised Hitler when George Butler, who produced “Pumping Iron,” said he may have misquoted the actor.

Butler shopped a book proposal on Schwarzenegger’s life six years ago, parts of which were reported in the media overnight. In the proposal, he said that in conversations he left out of the movie, Schwarzenegger named Hitler as one of his heroes.

“It depends for what,” Schwarzenegger said when asked whom he admired, according to the proposal. “I admired Hitler, for instance, because he came from being a little man with almost no formal education up to power. And I admire him for being such a good public speaker and for what he did with it.”

However, Butler contacted The New York Times, which ran a story about the book proposal, on Friday morning, saying he had found another transcript of the interview, with different wording.

That one has Schwarzenegger saying: “I admire him (Hitler) for being such a good public speaker and for his way of getting to the people and so on. But I didn’t admire him for what he did with it. It’s very hard to say who I admire, who are my heroes.”

http://www.msnbc.com/news/945950.asp?0cv=CB10

[Booberdawg]

58. The part you didn't chose to post

OTHER NAZI ALLEGATIONS
The Times also quoted Butler as saying he saw Schwarzenegger play Nazi marching songs on his record player and even click his heels and pretend to be an officer of the Schutzstaffel, the Nazi Party paramilitary unit known as the SS.
Butler said that in the 1970s he considered Schwarzenegger to be a “flagrant, outspoken admirer of Hitler.”


What I see is someone (you) going to great lengths to defend anything and everything that sheds a negative light on this Republican, and bending equally as far the other way to sabotage a Democrat who was fairly elected to the office of Governor by the people of California.

[IndianaGreen]

64. And in the 1970s, at the same time Arnold was goosestepping to

the tunes of a German band, I was an avowed ultra-Zionist and I believed that rabbi Meir Kahane was a great American and that the Jewish Defense League was a wonderful idea that was long overdue.

[Booberdawg]

84. That little sugar plum certainly doesn't help your credibility.

[IndianaGreen]

85. It shows that people do change over time

and that they should be judged on who they are today and not on who they were 30 years ago.

[lovedems]

59. Are Maria and Ann Coulter on the same diet?

They both look like shit. Anyway, it appearst that this probably won't hurt Ahnold because so many absentee ballots have been sent in already. Just one more example of neocon hypocrisy. They go after Clinton and impeach him and then support an admitted sexual harrasser. Oh the irony!

[IndianaGreen]

62. Two million absentee ballots have already been cast

I expect the recall to pass easily, but the race between Bustamante and his two GOP opponents will be close. If Arnold crashes and burns, no one can predict how many of his votes will go to McClintock.

[KayLaw]

65. Abentee ballots

I just read the Sun Times article on all this and one young woman - a first-time voter - said she had already voted for Arnold but wishes she could take her vote back after hearing this news. It makes me wonder if Arnold wins whether there will be another recall.

[tlcandie]

71. Well, IMO if all of the info about Clinton came out BEFORE his

Presidency, do you honestly think he would have gotten the Presidency?

NO WAY IN HELL would the rethugs have allowed it!

There is a lot about Ahhhhnuld that needs clarification IMO!! False, true?! :shrug: As a woman, mother, daughter, wife and having experienced this TYPE of male testosterone (self-evident) it should ALL be examined thoroughly!

If anyone truly cared about the women in their lives, then they would do whatever they had to do to get to the bottom of this fast! It should have already been done! IndyGreen, I think you mean well, at least I hope you do, but there's something about how or what you are saying that bothers me as a woman somehow and I can't quite put my finger on it. The best way I can sum it up is what I heard on one of the main news channels in passing my husband's TV is that the reason Ahhhnuld is running away with this campaign is it is about the men! They are going crazy over his testosteroness.. the MALEneses of it all or something like that. Very much paraphrased, but you get the drift and I believe it said the women were nothing more than a mere side-line distraction? :shrug?

I heard Maria almost yelling in an interview she gave to a room full of people, "Who are you going to believe?!?! Me or them?!!? I'm telling you to believe me, the woman who has lived with this man... etc., etc., etc."

That also bothers me for her to be so defensive about it.

Don't you wish we would have taken *its stories more seriously when they were just kind of slowly leaking out little by little right before his election as pResident? This reminds me of the same thing. Sometimes people feel live and let live as long as I don't ever have to deal with them again UNTIL they see that they will be overseeing their entire lives or the lives of those they love and cherish?!

<awaits flames>

[IndianaGreen]

75. Those are excellent points, tlcandie

I will point out that it was Bustamante who said Friday that if that had been his daughters that had been groped by Arnold that he would have made a big stink about it right then and there.

This sex scandal will not prevent the recall of Davis. It is clear that a majority of Californians decided long-ago to oust him. The question remains who would we prefer to have as governor after Davis is gone? The media coverage of the sex scandal has drowned the voice of Cruz Bustamante, and what little coverage he got after the debate was negative. Remember how he was criticized for being condescending to Arianna? Never mind that Arianna didn't know what the shit she was talking about, and Bustamante did, as described here:

Bustamante had the courage to tout his budget-balancing tax increases during the debate, but he came across not only as passive but — here comes that word again — condescending.

Take the moment when Arianna Huffington asked Bustamante if he would support canceling an expensive prison project so that state university tuition could be lowered. Bustamante, knowing that the prison construction money couldn't be transferred, began: "Let me tell you, Arianna, you may not understand how the process works."

"Oh please!" Huffington spat as if scolding an estranged husband. "You keep saying that to me, and it's getting a little tired."

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/recall/la-me-cruz3oct03005417,1,2997513.story

[Booberdawg]

83. Correction:

It is clear that a majority of Californians decided long-ago to oust him.

No. The majority of Californians had JUST elected him, then the GREENS and REPUBLICANS decided IMMEDIATELY to collect signatures for a recall. I find it HIGHLY offensive that you not only approve, but aid and abet, and ACTIVELY PROMOTE a blatant GOP POWER GRAB on a DEMOCRATIC Forum.

Bustamante needs to drop the fuck out and start campaigning for Davis, just like he should have been doing all along.

[IndianaGreen]

87. Why should Bustamante endorse a man that has disrespected him

Why should Bustamante endorse a man that has disrespected him from day one?

Davis should drop out and endorse Bustamante!

[Booberdawg]

98. Bustamante is not the Governor. DAVIS IS?? REMEMBER??

I repeat:

IndianaGreen:
It is clear that a majority of Californians decided long-ago to oust him.

Booberdawg:
No. The majority of Californians had JUST elected him, then the GREENS and REPUBLICANS decided IMMEDIATELY to collect signatures for a recall. I find it HIGHLY offensive that you not only approve, but aid and abet, and ACTIVELY PROMOTE a blatant GOP POWER GRAB on a DEMOCRATIC Forum.

Bustamante is not entitled to the Office of Governor - DAVIS IS THE ONE THAT THE PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA ELECTED.

The PEOPLE OF CALIFORNIA did not ask for this recall, REPUBLICANS (out of state Republicans!) promoted the idea of a recall to STEAL an election because they LOST the fair and square one and wanted DO-OVERS. They recruited and received help from GREENS to assist them in this NAKED GOP POWER GRAB.

Bustamante is not entitled to any deference from Davis.

Bustamante is not entitled to any respect from Davis for seeking to participate in a coup and take over his job.

Bustamante is not entitled to a resignation from Davis.

Bustamante is not entitled to an endorsement from Davis.

If anyone is to drop out it is Bustamante's place to step out and endorse Davis. Bustamante should have been playing on the same team all along.

[haymaker]

81. Indianagreen, which is it?

Are you saying that Clinton is, beyond a shadow of a doubt, a rapist? Or is it OK that Arnold groped those women? I am confused. It seems like you are defending Arnold by convicting Clinton.

You really need to check yourself. You know what you sound like, a hypocrite. If it is not OK to attack Arnold without the facts, it is not OK to attack Clinton in the same way. If it is wrong what Clinton did, (allegedly and never proven, any of it), then it is wrong what Arnold did.

Man, talk about a DUer who has suddenly switched boats midstream. Why don't you start with the Clinton murder list. They come from some of the same sources. Cooome On! Listen to yourself.

[IndianaGreen]

82. I ignored Clinton's sexual behaviour

I was among the early signers to MoveOn right after it was formed to counter the GOP's obsession about Clinton's sexual indiscretions. That was the basic message then, whatever Clinton did years before was not relevant to his job as President and it was time to move on.

I mention the Clinton issue because it is a yardstick.

[haymaker]

86. So are Arnold's indescretions (likeley ongoing)

not an issue? If not, then why bring up Clinton's? It seems to me that the LA Times is responsible for what it publishes. This is not Drudge or the American Spectator. There was an article today in the Chicago Sun-Times.

I know that the GOP screams daily that the media is on the side of the Democrats, but this stuff is just the same as all the other bullshit, hysterical, and invasive news that gets reported every day, except it now affects their last ditch, desperate effort to steal their way into the govenor's office. Now, and only now are they screaming about this type of reporting. They relished in it for years, and still do, as long as it doesn't attack their guy.

It is not the Democratic Party doing this. Again, it is not the Democratic Party doing this. It is the nature of the beast in this day and age. This is the way the press operates these days. Saying it is bad strategy for the Dems, or tying it in any way to the anti-recall effort is just GOP spin.

[DemNoir]

88. This is a sad group indeed

This thread just shows that we dont need Republicans to make every issue about Clinton, no sireee bob. We are more than happy to eat our own livers.

Please stop and think.

[Democat]

90. In politics, "nice" Democrats are loser Democrats these days!

I don't know exactly what your politics are, but Arnold attacked Gray Davis with lies and compared California under Davis to Iraq long before these facts about Arnold came out.

We can sit around and be nice losers, or fight like Republicans fight and have a chance to win and make the world a better place.

Personally, I'm sick of hand wringing "nice guy" loser Democrats.

Let's start winning, even if it means fighting like the Republicans fight.

In politics, losers have no power.

[lebkuchen]

91. One wonders how many extramarital affairs Arnie has had

Not that that's illegal, if you ignore the wrath of the Catholics' God and Maria's mother Eunice.

How about rape? Doesn't sound like Arnie is above that crime, if you listen to him talk about his past escapades, or believe any of his many victims' versions of gross encounters.

BTW, sexual assault is not part of Austrian culture, contrary to Arnie's argument for excusing his loathsome behavior. Assault is against the law in Austria as well.

[marigold20]

94. Gropers of California unite!

Someone on "Capital Gang" said that Arnold's "overnight" polling shows him actually increasing his numbers since the LA Times story. All of the panelists except for Mark Shields predicted a yes on recall with the groper winning. Mark, the optimist, believes the recall will fail, narrowly. Hope he's right.

[Nancy Waterman]

95. These women should get together

and press charges for sexual battery. Every one of them has someone they told at the time, years ago. The pattern is very clear. He is a sexual predator and should be in jail, not Sacramento.

[Manix]

99. Rove, Delay.Cheney etc, have crawled out of the sewer and playing nice

..with them is a recipe for failure.