Ms. Plame was a 'NOC'

[kstewart33]

From the New York Times:

But within the C.I.A., the exposure of Ms. Plame is now considered an even greater instance of treachery. Ms. Plame, a specialist in nonconventional weapons who worked overseas, had "nonofficial cover," and was what in C.I.A. parlance is called a Noc, the most difficult kind of false identity for the agency to create. While most undercover agency officers disguise their real profession by pretending to be American embassy diplomats or other United States government employees, Ms. Plame passed herself off as a private energy expert. Intelligence experts said that Nocs have especially dangerous jobs.

"Nocs are the holiest of holies," said Kenneth M. Pollack, a former agency officer who is now director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. "This is real James Bond stuff. You're going overseas posing as a businessman, and if the other government finds out about you, they're probably going to shoot you. The United States has basically no way to protect you."

For more see: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/politics/05TENE.html?hp

[UpInArms]

1. see also

http://slate.msn.com/id/2089062/

Nonofficial cover. NOCs (the word rhymes with "rocks") are the most covert CIA operatives. They typically work abroad without diplomatic protection (often they pretend to work for some commercial enterprise). If these spies are caught, there's no guarantee that the United States would admit their true identities. When using official cover could put a spy's life and work at risk, NOC is the only alternative.

Why is it such a big deal that someone outed Valerie Plame? For starters, it's a felony. And Plame was also reportedly a NOC with years of experience investigating weapons of mass destruction. If this is true, her discovery could compromise intelligence operations she was involved with around the world, which would explain why she maintained her nonofficial cover even when she was back in the United States. "Hard target" countries like China and North Korea often keep records of every known meeting between Americans and their scientists and officials. Almost certainly, those lists would have been frantically reviewed when Plame's identity was revealed, and any sources she recruited could have been exposed.

[never cry wolf]

22. Plus, think of the future consequences.

Obviously everyone who worked with Plame is in grave danger, her network and sources alike, not just co-workers for the company. How will this affect the credibility of other agents in the field when they try to obtain information and contacts. Will they now get the cold shoulder because a potential ally does not trust that this agent will not be outed and himself put in mortal danger??

The credibility of the entire outfit is now in question around the world, you can bet there will be a general drying up of cooperation on all matters.

[Loyal]

50. yeah

n/t

[jenk]

2. this is really juicy

and for the Bush administration, really dangerous


but this Valerie Plame is really intriguing, the more I read about her, the more I want to see her. I always thought these Bond type characters only existed in movies, but here she is........

[Beetwasher]

11. Yup, She WAS the real deal, Cloak and Dagger, James Bond etc.

WAS being the operative word. It's INCREDIBLY dangerous that they blew her cover. I can't even stress or communicate how dangerous. Anyone who was ever associated with her can now conceivably end up terminated. He whole network is gone, kaput, shattered, and WMD's may very well end up in the hands of terrorists as a result. This is beyond a catastrophe for the CIA and for the safety of the US.

[Resistance Is Futile]

27. Not James Bond

James Bond is basically fantasy. Here's a few books that cover the reality:

Spycatcher
Peter Wright
Dell Publishing, 1988

A real-world account of an MI5 (UK domestic intelligence) operative's efforts to track down Soviet moles during the Cold War. This book is long out of print but can probably be found in some libraries.


By Way of Deception
Victor Ostrovsky, Claire Hoy (Contributor)
St. Martin's Press, 1991

The career of an Israeli Mossad agent.


See No Evil: The True Story of a Ground Soldier in the CIA's War on Terrorism
Robert Baer
Three Rivers Press, 2003

A contemporary inditement of CIA and US government incompetence, as told by a former field agent.



The Master of Disguise: My Secret Life in the CIA
Antonio J. Mendez
Perennial, 2000

Memoirs of a CIA technical services agent.

[Beetwasher]

29. Really? I thought he was real

Duh! Comparing her to JB is merely stressing the importance of this in terms people not familiar with NOC's can understand more fully. Did this really have to be explained to you? The comparison is NOT mine. Take it up w/ Ken Pollack, you know, the guy they quote in the article. Did you read it?

[calimary]

43. And that asshole Novak was carrying on how this was no big deal.

Just a reminder - we're going into Week Two of this scandal. We need to push it with our reps!!!

1 (800) 839 - 5276 or 1 (800) 648 - 3516 - those TOLL FREE numbers to the Capitol Switchboard. They'll transfer you, for free, to anybody's office in the Senate or the House. Call them and DEMAND an independent prosecutor, FIRST THING MONDAY MORNING! Won't cost anything!

[truthseeker1]

40. They showed a picture of her on the news

I don't remember which program it was but they showed her standing behind Wilson (who was seated) on a large boat. Her face was fuzzied out but you could see she had pretty blonde hair and had a nice figure. I think it's irresponsible of any news organization to air her picture - regardless of the fact that they didn't show her face. It was enough to put two and two together if you were a person who might have dealt with her in the past.

[Wickerman]

3. NOC=Analyst?

Nope, I thought not. Novak should be fired for his mistatements and willingly misleading the public. The whole Bus* cabal should go down for exposing her and Bus* should accept some responsibility. Ha, what am I saying - Bus* and responsibility in the same sentence even felt weird to type! :eyes:

[Junkdrawer]

5. Novak came right out and said she was a desk jockey and NOT..

a "James Bond" type.

[Rose Siding]

9. Novak was a tool

He didn't know what was going on because she was GOOD.

The CIA is pissed. I hope they rattle the WHOLE govt. Who knows what else will come flying out when the repubs try to hit back.

[lebkuchen]

30. Don't journalists know that's why they're not supposed to OUT the CIA?

Christ, they could be anybody.

But I guess Novak is smarter than everybody else.

He's finished as a "journalist," as far as I'm concerned. He can go the way of Rush-bo.

[Patriot_Spear]

45. Wait a mintue- the CIA asked him NOT to reveal her identity...

He called it, 'a weak request'- and did it anyway. Don't sweat it, the CIA will get justice from Novak one way or antoher.

[polmaven]

33. Novak is allegedly an intelligent man.

At least that's what all of the media would like us to believe.

What he did may not have been illegal, but it was certainly unintelligent, and unquestionably immoral.

To have written that column was as hateful and dangerous as it gets. The man is loathsome.

[truthseeker1]

37. He even went so far

as to suggest that she could be a SECRETARY!! Can you believe it?(when he was on Crossfire)

[wryter2000]

38. Actually, that wasn't Novak

It was the mouth-breather Congressman on the conservative side. Gag.

[VolcanoJen]

13. Yep. This article pretty much blows Novak's...

... ex post facto insistence that Plame was not undercover out of the water, eh?

I wish that Plame and Wilson would take John Dean's advice and file a civil suit against the White House....

[Wickerman]

16. And if they don't

I hope the CIA continues on with their "suit". Something tells me theirs could be a LOT more deadly than the Wilson's. I do hope that the Wilsons do too, particularly as so well stated by Beetwasher above -this WH has compromised so much more than just them - that suit would get it all out in the open.
I'm thinking Novak should consider staying out of small planes and not spend a lotta time alone for the next several years...

[UpInArms]

18. maybe he could get a cell

next to Martha Stewart -- and before I get flamed on that one -- it was said with humor in mind.

We all know that the Justice Department will continue to prosecute Martha Stewart and NoFacts will continue to spew his bile on CNN and in print.

:mad:

[realFedUp]

4. I'm glad they either filed or are filing a civil suit

This woman's career is over in this field
and her life and the lives of others she
dealt with have been compromised and in possible
danger.

I think Bob Novak's career should end with this
one also.

[LittleApple81]

8. Did you see the other link in GD forum (the one by John Dean?)

It is really interesting and is talking about the Wilsons' needing to file a civil suit.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=470686

[VolcanoJen]

14. Ooooh! Oooooh!!

Realfedup, I've been a little out-of-the-loop. Did Wilson/Plame accept John Dean's challenge to file a civil suit?????

Good stuff!!! Let me know,
Jennifer :-)

[Beetwasher]

24. I believe they got the ball rolling, not sure if it's filed yet

I thought I saw a story about it this past week (aside from the Dean article). It's something that absolutely MUST be done.

[wryter2000]

39. This is essential

Law suits are totally public. The thugs in the White House couldn't cover it up. Wonder if Novakula will start singing.

[scarletwoman]

46. "Mr. Wilson and his wife.. considering civil action over the disclosure.."

From a new NYTimes article -- which should probably have its own thread:

His lawyer, Christopher Wolf, said that Mr. Wilson and his wife were considering civil action over the disclosure of her C.I.A. ties.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/05/national/05WILS.html?pagewanted=2

I really hope they do it!

(now I'm going to post this article in its own thread...)

sw

[radfringe]

6. ahhhhhh.... looks like the toothpick house of lies is getting

shakier and shakier...

Scroll to bottom right

One co-worker is a die-hard repug... we often tangle, but seeing as he gets all his news from FAUX, it's not that hard to punch holes in his arguments..

He's concerned about the leak, but not ready to jump the GOP ship... I may have gotten him to reconsider when I pointed out that the "MISPEAKS" (i.e. lies) and the Outing of Plame is not a case of just lying to Dem's or betraying Dem's but it's lying and betraying all of us - Dems, Repubs, Greens, libertarians, moderates, conservatives, liberals, right-wingers, left-wingers - his lies and betrayal effects all of us equally

[dkf]

7. Doesn't this mean that with the exposure of the CIA front company

that more NOCS are compromised?

[Beetwasher]

12. Yes. And it's even worse than that

Anyone in any way associated with that company is now compromised. Hundreds of people's lives are now in serious danger. It would not surprise me in the least if people end up dead as a result of this leak; people may in fact already be dead because of it. Additionally, none of these people can continue doing their important work. Any ongoing operations have been irretreivably compromised. WMD's may now find their way into terrorists hands as a result of this and ultimately into and used in the US. I'm not being hyperbolic in the least. The consequences are that dire.

[UpInArms]

15. someone should have stuffed

bulging boy's sock in NoFacts mouth - yes, indeed, on Thursday he outed the CIA front company and probably put so many people in jeopardy that we will feel the fallout on this for years to come.

Anyone remember Aldrich Ames?

http://www.loyola.edu/dept/politics/intel/dec95dci.html

Aldrich Ames' espionage on behalf of the Soviet Union and Russia from April 1985 through February 1994 caused severe, wide-ranging and continuing damage to US national security interests. In addition to the points that I made in my public statement on 31 October, Ames did the following:



In June 1985, he disclosed the identity of numerous U.S. clandestine agents in the Soviet Union, at least nine of whom were executed. These agents were at the heart of our effort to collect intelligence and counterintelligence against the Soviet Union. As a result, we lost opportunities to better understand what was going on in the Soviet Union at a crucial time in history.

He disclosed, over the next decade, the identity of many US agents run against the Soviets, and later the Russians.

He disclosed the techniques and methods of double agent operations, details of our clandestine trade craft, communication techniques and agent validation methods. He went to extraordinary length to learn about U.S. double agent operations and pass information on them to the Soviets.

He disclosed details about US counterintelligence activities that not only devastated our efforts at the time, but also made us more vulnerable to KGB operations against us.

He identified CIA and other intelligence community personnel. Ames contends that he disclosed personal information on, or the identities of, only a few American intelligence officials. We do not believe that assertion.

He provided details of US intelligence technical collection activities and analytic techniques.

He provided finished intelligence reports, current intelligence reporting, arms control papers, and selected Department of State and Department of Defense cables. For example, during one assignment, he gave the KGB a stack of documents estimated to be 15 to 20 feet high.

I'm certain that there are many "compromised" people all across the globe from the loose lips of NoFacts. :mad:

[slor]

10. Wow, the whole rotten bunch...

of idiots should go down for this! Their stupidity is matched only by their malevolence.

[lovedems]

17. I wonder if Novak feels like an ass...

Probably not but it looks as though the very neocons he supports pulled a fast one on him. I don't want to take any responsibility away from him, he was the only reporter willing to be "house bitch". But do you think he knew the extent of her cover? I don't know, I am just speculating...it is possible that Libby, Cheney and especially Rove could give 2 shits about Novak's career and just used him to be the messenger boy while he was not fully aware of the message he was sending?

[Lugnut]

19. I think....

FWIW that Novak was played like a fiddle. I wish I could locate an article that said he (Novak) bristled when someone suggested that he was used by the WH.

[lovedems]

23. The WH has used people more important than him

But he thinks he is soooooooo important. 46 years in neocon journalism...they (neocons) are starting to turn on each other now!

[lebkuchen]

31. It doesn't matter whether he knew the extent of her cover or not

Journalists are not supposed to expose CIA agents.

Novak said Palme was a well-known agent. How can that possibly be when she has such a deep cover?

Novak is a lying sack of shit. He's a traitor to the US, and there is no excuse for his actions. I hope he got a good lawyer, one that will cost him big bucks.

[lovedems]

35. I agree with you 100% and I hope that he goes down for this

just as much as you do. I was just speculating that maybe he was given this information "well known agent" and was duped by the WH. I hope he goes broke defending himself on this, he is the one who outed her publicly. Someone gave him that information and I was speculating that he was also used as a means to an end.

[chasqui]

44. I SUPPOSE

They could use the PATRIOT ACT on Novak.

[Buns_of_Fire]

34. He's been a "useful fool" for them

But his arrogance seems to be right up there with the junta in the WH. He's obviously forgotten that after Hubris, comes Nemesis.

Gitmo calls, Bob. But don't worry. The CIA will now do its damnedest to make sure you have company.

[realFedUp]

42. He looks like week old meatloaf

ok, that was mean...
maybe just two day old meatloaf.

He should get canned.

[hedda_foil]

20. Ken Pollack quote .... Holy #@$!^#!! He's totally PNAC too.

First Kristol, now Pollack. Neocons abandon the * ship? I expect them to turn up with the Dems again. These bastards aren't interested in traditional lib/con ideology. They'll use either side to promote their interests.

"Nocs are the holiest of holies," said Kenneth M. Pollack, a former agency officer who is now director of research at the Saban Center for Middle East Policy at the Brookings Institution. "This is real James Bond stuff. You're going overseas posing as a businessman, and if the other government finds out about you, they're probably going to shoot you. The United States has basically no way to protect you."

[0007]

21. Senate Tom Harkins

will bring this story to the senate floor Monday. He has been keeping the senate updated. And asking for a Special Investigation.

I think the shit has just hit the fan.

[NickB79]

25. Don't F**K with the CIA!!!

They are going to nail someone for this screw-up, and it won't be pretty. They are some of the last people you ever want to piss off.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. No wonder the Agency is pissed

[JackDragna]

28. But..but..wait!

I thought she was just an analyst! I thought everyone knew! You liberal liars! Just shut up, shut up, SHUT UP!

(If it works for o'Reilly, it works for me).

[TacticalPeek]

32. Thread on last night's Nightline with 5 ex-CIA agents.

Very compelling.

Promo blurb:

Yesterday, we were approached by several former CIA officers who had trained with Amb. Wilson's wife. They are furious. They said they wanted to come on and talk about what they do, the lives they lead, and why the disclosure of an officer's identity is so harmful. They say their concerns are not political, in fact there's not a Democrat in the group. They'll talk about their motivation for coming forward. We thought this was an opportunity to hear about a world that most of us only know through books and movies. In fact, one of them, even though no longer an officer, will still have to have their identity and voice disguised, for fear of compromising other agents, and of the danger that they themselves would face.

So tonight will be a slightly different kind of Nightline. Chris Bury will sit down with our five guests, and they will give us a glimpse of their world. It should be fascinating.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=464668

[lebkuchen]

36. Excusing complaints of outing CIA agents-using party affiliation arguments

-is as ludicrous as dismissing complaints of sexual battery because of the victim's political persuasion.

In either case, the victim's political affiliation doesn't mean squat. Exposing CIA agents and committing sexual battery are against the law, PERIOD.

The next thing you know, Novak is going to say Palme deserved to be outed because of the "provacative" clothing she wore. As usual, Nightline is way off base, to even suggest that party affiliation can even be considered a part of the argument.

If Nightline wants to start making connections, why doesn't it start w/Cheney and Halliburton, or the implosion of the GOP and everyone who comprises it due to one incestuous affair after the other?

[gulliver]

41. Republics tolerating this!!!

This exposes them for what they are. Dems were willing to let Clinton slide for his stupid Monica thing. Big deal.

Republicans spin for national security criminals. Republicans are soft on national security crime.

I hope the pubbies keep holding out. Let them explain to their constituents that they didn't show any great concern over this CIA agent outing.

[robbedvoter]

47. Who cares about Nofacts? Karl and Scooter and the GOP

strong on National security - this is what I want to see exposed. I won't see anyone frogmarched on this - as long as the thugs are in power. But this will help dislodging them - they are all showing their red ass by the way they react to this. All the poetry Karen Hugues writes in W's name to fuzzy up his image won't insulate them from Dean's "they outnixoned Nixon" or Dowd's: "They are doing a pretty good impression of OJ Simpson looking for the murderer". These soundbytes will define them years and years from now. (Trhough the time when they'll really be punished for their treason)

[E_Zapata]

48. The US taxpayers should sue too.

How much money was invested in Plame and all of her operatives and the cover company and training and on and on for many years?

MILLIONS, if not more.

And the Novak and Rove and Cheney should have to pay the US govt back -- with interest -- for the entire period that Novak and crew were funded by the CIA.

uh hum.

[Nottingham]

49. WOW this was a real tragedy! Somebody Better PAY

:bounce: