Promise Keepers pans 'feminization' of males (the cult of misogynism)

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

This group has been around for about 11 or 12 years...creepy guys.

snip>

Group defends rally at Arkansas stadium despite NOW protest

By David Hammer, Associated Press
June 1, 2005

LITTLE ROCK, Ark. - Promise Keepers, a Denver-based national men's ministry, responded Tuesday to allegations it is sexist and anti- gay by decrying the "feminization of men" and by defending plans to hold a rally at the University of Arkansas' taxpayer-financed stadium.

"Men break out with feminine attitudes; they've been feminized," the Rev. Robert Smith, senior pastor of Total Outreach for Christ Ministries in Little Rock, said on behalf of Promise Keepers. "They're not being a man for their women. There's an Eve in every man until it's taken out."


snip>

Promise Keepers says it teaches men to be both servants and leaders to their wives in the way that Jesus Christ was a servant and leader to the church.

Melanie Dietzel, president of the local and state chapters of NOW, has said leaders of Promise Keepers make anti-feminist, anti-women and anti-homosexual comments, and it isn't appropriate for them to hold the rally at the stadium.

http://www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/state/article/0,1299,DRMN_21_3820693,00.html


MKJ

[Mizmoon]

1. It about men who don't know who they are

I knew a man who was involved with the PKs. He had a lot of anger at his mother. He blamed her for his father leaving them for another woman (why didn't she stop him, shuold have been a better wife, etc). Promise Keepers played into all his emotional vulnerabilities. It was sad to watch them consume more and more of his time and money.

[SharonAnn]

108. Christ died and his Church became stronger. So, I suggest that

husbands die and their wives will become stronger.

Like they said, "to be both servants and leaders to their wives in the way that Jesus Christ was a servant and leader to the church."

Just a thought.

I mean, if you follow the whole thought process this would be a natural conclusion.

[TahitiNut]

2. "Men break out with feminine attitudes" ... the Homophobe's Auxiliary

.. is on the march again. This kind of shit is peddled by people who haven't the slightest idea of what being 'male' or 'female' is about.

[Sabriel]

50. It's not a rash or something!

Doing "female" and "male" things in society doesn't necessarily make you either one of them (or both). Haven't any of these people ever taken a college course in sociology or women's studies? Or anything?

[Chovexani]

57. Ha

That sounds like witch talk to me! </Chief Wiggum>

Don't you know colleges are run by the gay librul commie mafia and women's studies only exists to recruit good Christian virgins into the lesbian lifestyle? :sarcasm:

(I have seriously heard this said on the local fundie Xian radio station)

[NuttyFluffers]

70. but they do! :P

women studies is this wonderful lesbian orgy for an entire 4 year college career. bastards are just jealous.

:evilgrin:

i've stopped trying to rationalize with some of these insane nitwits; i just validate their fears, elaborate, and then shoot for the moon exaggerating. sometimes their BS detector goes off, which might short out their RW brainwash chip, and some rational thought starts kicking in (beginning the horrific slippery slope towards being a liberal -- because we are that sneaky and evil! :7) or they go head explody. either way is fine with me.

[MisterP]

73. noooo! we can't mock these wonderful people! we must open our arms

and embrace them! compromise! reason! sanity! we're not smarter or righter than they are! you're being divisive! *seizes*
(sarcasm)

[ptolle]

82. good xian virgins

Yeashbut if they were recruited into the "lesbian lifestyle" wouldn't that contribute to their remaining virgins? What's the beef here?
Try as I might understanding of the real true believers eludes me, but then again maybe I'm not so sure I really want to understand them.

[Eloriel]

85. Just how do you define virgin?

I'm seriously confused by your post -- but methinks it's YOU who are seriously confused.

:evilgrin:

[davidinalameda]

66. of course they haven't

taken classes in women's studies

they think women's studies are how to cook and clean better

[Ripley]

76. I must be old.

I remember 7th grade, when I wasn't allowed to take shop class, but had to take sewing and cooking class because I was a girl.

Funny thing is the cooking teacher made fun of me for making brownies and lemonade (together) as my project. Just imagine what a BOY would have done!

Also funny that in my woodworking class in college, the male instructor at a very large University was missing index and middle fingers to the second knuckle on his right hand. Yeah, great confidence in that guy!

Despite all the bullshit, I can cook very well and use power tools without injury. :)

[davidinalameda]

79. I think every shop teacher is missing fingers

[AndyTiedye]

118. Think of Us Poor Guys...

...having to teach ourselves how to cook and sew.

Even when I was in jr high it was obvious to me that there was
something wrong with that picture.

EVERYBODY should be taught how to cook and sew, as well as basic
carpentry skills.

[CitySky]

121. shh!!!

if you're a dude who can sew, you might want to keep quiet about it. i'm sure i'm not the only all-thumbs alpha female around here who thinks that a guy who can do carpentry AND sew would rank a close second to the one who did carpentry and walked on water... ;)

[Eloriel]

83. A little psychology wouldn't hurt, either

esp. Jungian I'm thinking.

In the meantime, I found this article VERY revealing, and apt:


March 2, 2005
The Wimp Factor: Gender Gaps, Holy Wars, and the Politics of Anxious Masculinity
Stephen J. Ducat Dissects "Anxious Masculinity," Making Sense of America's Strutting, in a Psychoanalytic Kind of Way
A BUZZFLASH INTERVIEW
http://www.buzzflash.com/interviews/05/03/int05011.html
discussed here:
Ducat connects Gannon, Arnold and Hyper Masculinity
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3206161

[atommom]

3. PK has always made me nervous. They're pushing a very

reactionary agenda, under cover of religion. The men are told to be good to their wives, but they're also told that they must be the lords and masters of their households.

[DBoon]

32. Lords and Masters is correct here

In their minds, there is no democracy in the kingdom of god.

As the household is governed, so will the nation.

The dictatorship of Franco's "christian soldiers" arises in the US, as it has died in Spain:

[SouthDakota]

75. I agree

These guys make the hair on the back of my neck stand up. They somehow think their message of male dominance to female subservience is too subtle to be noticed. Any man who claims to love his wife as an equal yet also claims the right to be "head of household" and needs to attend promise keeper meetings to remind himself to be faithful to her needs help. It seems so outrageous I can hardly believe anyone agrees with it, but the number of people who think this way is frightening.

[Eloriel]

87. Welcome to DU, SouthDakota! n/t

[meegbear]

4. There's an Eve in every man until it's taken out?

Huh?

[Triana]

6. Yes. Huh?

:wtf: is that bullshit? Sounds mysogenist to me.

[Kolesar]

8. Sometimes I feel like DU is the last bastion of sanity

Anybody want to hug me, even though I am male?

[Lerkfish]

12. here's a self-confident male hug from a straight guy secure in his

masculinity but completely in touch with his feminine side:

:hug:

[Kolesar]

28. That was the "Eve" in me talking

And I am not going to apologize to anybody about it! :hug:

[Skittles]

41. homophobic too

it's pretty pathetic

[ovidsen]

95. I rather like my "Eve"

It compliments my maleness.;-)

My wife like it too.

[TankLV]

112. I thought that was "irish spring"!

[BuelahWitch]

9. It's a reference to Eve as "Adam's rib"

According to Genesis, God took a rib out of Adam and made Eve...

[meegbear]

17. But what metaphor are they trying to convey?

[brooklynite]

94. Okay, so if Adam and Eve were never married...

(there's no reference to it in the Bible, and so it has to be true...), and conceived Cain and Abel, does that mean the church condones premarital sex or out of wedlock births?

[short bus president]

23. I believe this is an ad for rib-removal surgery.

;-)

[meegbear]

24. You mean like Marilyn Manson did ....

so he can blow himself? I saw that on the internet, so I know it's true.

[Paulie]

30. The X chromosome is the problem????

Do they pray, prey, or pry it out???

[Orangepeel]

43. that has got to be one of the most ignorant-ass statements

I have EVER read.

[TankLV]

113. I think the judge one on another thread beats this.

But it's certainly up there!

[Fridays Child]

49. There is only one way to cleanse a man of his inner Eve...

[donsu]

55. LOL - they need to douche their brains

nt

[Megahurtz]

81. Lol!

:D

[Shallah Kali]

105. Where is Eve located? Does this require surgery?

But seriously this sounds like they are thinking along the lines of those groups that practice female circumcision who say it is to remove the male part of women so they won't get uppity but in reverse.

[IndianaGreen]

110. The old "inside every gook there is an American struggling to come out"

which was an actual quote from an American general, a quote that Stanley Kubrick used in his masterpiece Full Metal Jacket.

Just as that quote was an expression of the racist contempt many had for the Vietnamese, the Promise Keepers' "There's an Eve in every man until it's taken out" is based on the same mind set. One is superior to another on the basis of gender, culture, and race.

[TankLV]

111. Don't know about the "eve" - but I've got a pair of tweezers and a

magnifying glass to try to find something else that is seriously underdeveloped in these "guys"!

[leftofcool]

5. Attention ALL Wives................

Submit yourself unto your Promise Keeper hubby, even if he is a shithole because the good book (if you can find it in there) says that he is supposed to be a homophobic, wife beating moron, and you're not supposed to have a brain.

Left of Cool

[renaissanceguy]

31. I once heard a fundie say

"the Bible says 'A-MEN', not 'A-WOMEN,' so men are superior to women."

It's amazing what a tiny piece of flesh can determine one's worth.


http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues.21272015

[leftofcool]

69. That is so sad, isn't it..........

I am always amazed at what fundies pull out of their asses.

Left of Cool

[wtmusic]

7. Got it...gonna be a man for my woman

now where the hell did my Eve go?

[cap]

10. What about ethnic groups that are matriarchies?

Polish, Jewish, Italian families are matriarchies... Always have been!

[BiggJawn]

11. So did Jeebus beat the Church and keep it constantly knocked-up?

Damn Cult. but it's NOT a Cult, because it's Christian, and everyone KNOWS Christianity isn't a Cult...

Just ask Jim Jones and David Koresh...

[atommom]

13. Advice for women from the PK website...

How can I encourage the man in my life to attend a Promise Keepers event?

Be sensitive that any suggestion or recommendation might be received as an accusation by a man who is defensive. Nevertheless, encourage him to spend time with other Christian men in the setting of a PK event. Suggest he use the weekend as a "father-son" event, or a good opportunity to spend time with his own father or father-in-law. Don't overlook the fact that he may wish to go alone, join a church or employee group, or just join another friend.

What steps can I take to be an enthusiastic and effective "Promise Reaper?"

Be grateful for the spiritual hunger your man is showing. Acknowledge the little steps he is making to lead you and your family well. Be affirming in public. Practice patience. Paul wrote in Ephesians chapter five that respect is one of the important things we can give our husbands. It has been said that the wife is the spiritual barometer in the home. Protect your own time with the Lord so that you will be able to discern the spiritual cues in your home and with your man.

http://www.promisekeepers.org/women

A truly good woman is always walking on eggshells, apparently; always being careful about what she says and does, always hoping her man decides to be nice to her. :eyes:

[HuckleB]

68. Exactly.

These are "adult males" doing everything in their power to live their entire lives in a juvenile fantasy position of power. In other words, they don't want to grow up, and it's the rest of the family (and the community at large) that pays for their infantile nonsense.

[CTyankee]

92. Yeah, like "faith based" domestic violence prevention

Pray that he doesn't kill you next time.

[lolly]

96. My own take on this

If everything goes "right" in a marriage, it is because the man is leading properly.

If anything goes wrong, it is because the woman is not following properly.

If her "head of household" beats her, it is because she is not doing whatever she is supposed to be doing to keep him happy.

If he leaves her for a trophy wife, see above.

etc. etc.

Yes, walking on eggshells is a good metaphor.

[Sabriel]

107. Or, maybe her barometer's broken

Mine does occasionally hit a low...does that mean I'm experiencing a marital hurricane, or is it just a malfunction?

This is so confusing....

[cap]

126. walking on eggshells is a sign of an abusive husband

eom

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

127. Wow, I never ventured onto to the pk website...However, I had the bad

luck to be driving past Folsom field, in Boulder, years ago, when there was a pk get together there.


The 100% Caucasian hoardes of men and boys heading to the event were, as I said in the OP, "creepy." I remember my first thought was "pod people." and I couldn't get out of there fast enough.

MKJ

[LizW]

14. Promise Keepers is still around?

I thought it was exposed as a scam.

[rodeodance]

20. PK paying $60.000 to state and expects to make 1.7 m. (20,000 to attend)

......It's the first time the university stadium has hosted a private, non-athletic event, but the school said that's only because no one has ever asked to rent it before. Promise Keepers says it is paying the state $60,000 to use the stadium for two days. It expects 20,000 men to buy tickets, and Chavis said the $1.7 million that should raise would pay for lighting, music and year-round expenses of the nonprofit ministry

[northzax]

37. as long as they're paying the going rate

I have no problem with them using the stadium. Just as I'd have no problem is Billy Graham or Bruce Springsteen rented it for a day.

[sinkingfeeling]

38. The worse, is that they will be running all over my town!! The U of A

is renting out its multi-million dollar stadium for a measly $30K a day. And the Athletic Director is doing TV commericals for this 'event'. I wish someone would tell me why I moved to Arkansas again.

[Occulus]

117. I think taxpayers deserve a cut of the final take

not a set amount beforehand. Into its sleeves, PK is laughing at the state and saying "suckers!"

The state should insist on a cut of the final take.

[lolly]

120. True believers

Don't let the fact that it's all a scam get in the way of their faith-based stupidity.

[tanyev]

15. "The problem wasn't only with the women," he says.

"The main problem was with the men. There was nothing for them anymore....There was nothing to work for, nothing to fight for."
---The Commander, The Handmaid's Tale, 1986

[The Stranger]

18. An excellent work.

Excellent post.

[tanyev]

25. I just finished re-reading it.

Much more chilling now than when it first came out. Perhaps because it seems even more possible now.

Anyone who has never read The Handmaid's Tale should read it NOW. Anyone who hasn't read it recently should re-read it NOW. If you have any friends who aren't alarmed and aren't paying attention, give them a copy NOW.

[CTyankee]

93. Great book but scary

I also saw the film made on the book. It was very good but didn't last long in the theaters. Get it on rental if you can. Faye Dunaway was great!

[SpiralHawk]

22. Something to fight for

The well-being of the planet we share, and that is necessary to every life. Take a peaceful, principled stand for a clean, healthy earth -- airs, waters, and soils -- and you will be engaging in the most courageous deed of our age.

[KittyWampus]

26. Oh SpiralHawk, That's For Girlie-Men

[lildreamer316]

16. Just call me Lilith. n/t

[izzie]

19. what do they mean? A man is a man.

One must re-call that all babies were dressed in dressers at one time and even boys had long curls. Are they talking about that type of stuff or things in the mind? I and my friends were told we did not think like women but they were wrong. We did think like women but just not like some one wished women to think. People are not a mold.

[One_Life_To_Give]

39. Shssssssssssssssh

Don't get caught telling people that little boys wore dresses up till WW1. It's a state secret. Can't have anybody think that all males outside of Scotland have always worn pants.

[femmecahors]

21. I thought that MAN was created in God's image . . .

These self-righteous PK's would find Jesus to be a hyper "girly-man" -- after all, Jesus' big innovation was that he FEMINISED the TORAH (Bible)!

never married
never had children . . . in an age and culture that REVERED the family and children and thought that it was your duty to God to have children.
hung around with twelve other men and didn't play or watch sports
sported long feminine hair
refused to fight (what a sissy) telling the world to "turn the other cheek" and "do onto others" . . . what a whimp



In other words, if these PKers were truly Christian, they would develop MORE of their feminine attributes.

[Lochloosa]

27. I love getting in touch with my Feminine Side

and my wife gets real turned on when I wear her thongs....:rofl:

[Eloriel]

88. I seriously doubt it

Pathetic -- and tasteless -- attempt at humor in an inappropriate setting.

[TankLV]

115. I won't even go there with the "tasteless" thing.

Ewewwwwwwwww!

[TankLV]

114. But how do you keep it all in?

Not exactly built to hold anything, if you get my drift!

Not to mention the butt floss factor - ewewwwwwww!

[bemildred]

29. Infantile babble.

They should work on making men to be friends with their wives.
What is all this fascination with ordering people around and
gender purification?

[undergroundpanther]

35. men are scared to death

that women could do just fine without them.
Men like these little boy Hitlers in PK need to GROW UP and get over themselves and get help with their issues and quit blaming mommy and other women for not taking care of them all the time and do something about those overweening egos.
Domination is bullying, ruling the house is bullying. Dominion ism is bullying made into a religion .I submit to no one. Any male who thinks he has a god given right to rule over me just might find himself feminized permanently,that little skin tag between the legs clawed off in his sleep, I don't suffer narcissistic fools who wanna be kings lightly.As for abusive men I HATE them as much as I hate abusive women.
Bullies are bullies and there is no excuse for the choice to bully people not hurting other people or you.

[bemildred]

45. I'm not.

Women can do fine without me. More power to them.
You are right on with the bullying stuff.
Being a control freak sucks for everybody.

[undergroundpanther]

51. Thanks I agree bullying sucks

When men women or kids do it it ALWAYS sucks.
And there is no reason for it.

[Beausoir]

33. I have a friend whose husband is a PK.

He is a big dumb gorilla.

He claims to be the family leader but in all actuality, she does everything. Except for manage the money. He won't let her near the money. He gives her a cash allowance every week...even though she works. He decides what she can spend her hard earned cash on.

He's a racist, sexist moron. He can't hold a job (fork-lift driver on the graveyard shift) because he's such a hateful KKK-er. He is particularly obsessed with his male co-workers and their personal hygiene. And he's one of the most physically unappealing men I've ever seen.

He's just a massive ball of insecurity and hate.

And I blame her for putting up with it. She claims to love the fact that he "leads" the family. She is more than happy to abdicate her responsibility to be a free thinking woman.

[Maat]

34. I'm hearing more of this type of crud on so-called 'mainstream'

sites (read Religious Hardright).

Even the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention) implores wives to SUBMIT to their husbands, who are HEAD of the households.

But they just won't come out and say, "Hey, we believe you can tell her what to do from sunup to sundown, and smack her around a little."

Per the SBC, women and men are equal, the husband just gets to make all of the decisions (with his wives input of course - so they say).

What's that sound Elmer Fudd makes? It just makes your head hurt when you read it.

I was a feminist in the 70's - I had no idea people would still be sayin' this stuff.

[donsu]

59. watch Divorce Court on TV for one wk. & listen to what the men say

you'd think you were back in the 14th century

[Maat]

80. LOL!

I'll bet.

[Eloriel]

89. You were a feminist in the 70s? And now?

If you "had no idea people would still be sayin' this stuff," maybe part of the reason is that SOME women haven't been calling people (men, but women too) on their shit all this while.

:eyes:

[MAlibdem]

36. In the spirit of Al Franken, if I met one,

I would challenge him to a fight. I figure I, an 18 year-old rugby player who considers himself a feminist, would probably win.

[Redstone]

40. Oh boy, Promise Keepers...

a cult for male losers.

I was momentarily astonished that they're still around, but I guess the supply of losers in kinda infinite, isn't it?

Redstone

[cally]

42. Who knew that Christianity is in DNA?

and that political correctness and feminism is anti-Christian? So, I guess when your ancestors moved to a country dominated by Christianity then your DNA changed. The things I learn. :sarcasm:

From the article:

"He also said the "marketplace of ideas" is dominated by secularism and that Christian ideas are needed to clean up rampant unethical corporate practices, mend broken marriages and combat feminism."

"Our message is Christian; that's our DNA," he said. "Our critics, their own form of intolerance is political correctness, which is anti-Christian bigotry."

[Kool Kitty]

44. Lord, please save me from

your so-called "followers".

[XemaSab]

46. Lakoff explains it well

in "moral politics" and "don't think of an elephant."

[WeRQ4U]

47. I knew a couple of guys that were PK's

They were father and son. Hardcore religious weirdos. They didn't believe in Dinosaurs. They even tried to convince that the "fossil record" was actually some divine knee-slapper. ALso tried to convince me that the Earth, although quite possibly round, was only about 6000 years old. They read it in some book, they said.

Just another Fundamentalist, Neo-con hate group with an Orwellian statement of purpose. All involved are clueless, insecure morons.

[jobycom]

48. YIPPEEE!!!! A KKK for men to hate women!!!It's about time!!!

Well, except that their mysogynistic shit has been the norm since the dawn of time.

I'm glad men aren't going to be feminine anymore. Back in Jesus's day they didn't wear pants and they kissed other guys. Glad we finally cured us of that. Take that inner Eve out and beath the bitch, that's what we gotta do.

Question: If there's an Eve inside all of us and we have to remove her, doesn't that mean God fucked up and we have to fix His mistake?

[PunkPop]

52. These guys are a joke.

Living right in the crotch of the bible belt, I've had personal, first-hand knowledge of a couple of "Promise Keepers".

The first guy I knew made an agreement with the owner of a successful (and relatively easy-to-run) small business I was working for to take over the business so the owner could move with his wife to another part of the country because she was having health problems. Mr. "Promise Keeper" practically ruined the business by not completing jobs and ignoring clients repeated attempts to contact him. Quite the keeper of promises this guy was.

The second was a Sr. Vice President of the company I work for now. He was caught inflating the profits of his division by cooking the books and was forced to resign early. Local news even ran a story on the whole affair as this company is a relatively large employer in the area.

These holier-than-thou types make me want to :puke:

[MountainLaurel]

56. When the PKs met in DC

Several years ago, either the Wash Post or the City Paper ran articles about how many of these good devoted husbands could be found in the local strip joints and red-light districts, still wearing their "Real Men Love Jesus" shlock.

[ChickMagic]

53. One of my all time favorite pictures

A bunch of friends and I went to protest Promise Keepers, and here's one of the pictures. This pretty much says it all. :)

[donsu]

60. kick

nt

[ChickMagic]

64. Dave got prayer circled

How scary is that??? I'm just glad he had his protest sign behind his back.

[noamnety]

101. how would you resist the temptation in that situation

to start a round of duck duck goose?

[Chovexani]

54. God, Promise Keepers is like herpes

You just can't get rid of it!

My mom's fundie mega Walmart church pastor is very much involved in this shit, he even speaks at the rallies...he's a misogynist bastard and I have no idea why my mom (a liberal Dem and strong woman) gives this assclown money. She also loves Joyce "Democrats are agents of Satan" Meyers...

Fundie Xianity really does a number on your brain.

On Edit: I have heard from reliable sources that Promise Keeper rallies are like the #1 hookup place for guys on the DL and "ex-gays" who "relapse". Think about it, all those guys in one place, on their knees...:evilgrin:

[Javaman]

58. I had a friend that was a PK'er...

Oddly, we both lived in Los Angeles. He was an ex-cruse ship entertainer (I know, strange) and his wife was an accountant at Warner Brothers. He, Mr. Outgoing, screw anything on two legs. She, rightwing fundie. Match made in heaven right?
She got her claws into him and tried to change him. It worked for a little while.
They both moved to Dallas. I moved to Austin. At different times. He looks me up and I go visit. He tells me that he's in the PK. I had read about them before and saw nothing but red flags. Given that his wife was such a rightwing fundie, I wasn't the least bit surprised.
I told him outright, that that group is an opportunist organization based on "disenfranchised" men who feel they are not allowed to be real men. Meaning, cavemen.
He told me I was misinformed and then went on and on about the benefits of PK and how they teach men to be better husbands blah blah blah.
So I said, "do you feel you aren't a good husband?" No response except for more blathering about the PKer's.
So fast forward to several months later when I get a panicky call from him one evening.
He told me that his wife & kids had left him, taken all of their stuff and left for California. She took everything, lock stock and barrel. He came home from work to a very VERY empty house.
He blathered on and on about how evil she was, that she didn't respect him. I asked him, if she was subscribing to the PK crap like he was? He said she was all for it, blah blah blah. I told him perhaps she wasn't happy, that she needed someone that was sensitive to her needs or someone that would listen to her.
He then blatantly disregarded that. PK doctrine don't you know.
So I asked if anything had happened between the two of them that may have pissed her off. He got to thinking said he couldn't come up with anything other than the time he cheated on her 6 months before! Holy shit, I said, dude, did you ever think that screwing around behind your wifes back may have pissed her off?
He explains the PK method about that and shrugged it off.
At which point I bluntly said, sorry, our friendship ends here, when you are unable to see the way you hurt and disrespected your wife and would rather believe the teachings of a bunch of frustrated underachievers that suck your money out of your wallet then listen and pay attention to your wife, then you are an idiot and completely taken in by a cult.
He was speechless, I think he really wanted me to agree with him. He then said slowly, "wow, I never looked at it that way". I responded by saying, "deprogramming is a bitch". Then hung up.

The asshole promise keepers are just that, a bunch of assholes that feel the world owes them something because they feel they can't be real men in todays world. What they define as real men is a mystery to me.

[The Magistrate]

61. This Is A Very Sick Bunch, My Friends....

[Lydia Leftcoast]

62. The Average Middle American Guy

doesn't know the difference between masculinity and macho, because the mass media have been promoting mindless machismo ever since the Reagan administration.

The opposite of "macho" is NOT "feminine." The opposite of "macho" is "smart."

[ChickMagic]

63. self delete

Crazy hands push the button twice. :(

[Maestro]

65. I have always realized that Navy blue wingtips do not match

a black suit but these dolts do that all the time. Does that make me feminine? :shrug:

Why don't these futher muckers worry about something that is worthwhile?

[HuckleB]

67. Any and every excuse they can give themselves to keep from growing up...

These guys fall all over themselves because they supposedly support each other in doing what they are supposed to do: be responsible adults. Yet, they can't live in a world where all adults are equal, because, apparently, that's too damn difficult for these whiny, baby boys.

PKers are a sad bunch. That's for sure.

[DFWJock]

71. Razorback Stadium

is not a domed stadium, pray for rain.

[arkie dem]

103. I will be praying for the

stadium to collapse.

This week we have Jimmy Buffet, Will Smith, and someone else Jesse McCartney...??? playing for the Wal-Mart sheep. Next week PKeepers, when will the madness end? I knew I should of taken off the first two weeks of this month instead of the last two.

[David__77]

72. Brainwashing, "ego-stripping" cult.

The point of this group is to crush people's ego-identities and recreate "worms" to "serve the lord" and act as domestic oppressor. They are trying to churn out unquestioning fascists in order to build a social base for theocracy.

[Prodemsouth]

74. This is a perfect example of the machismo neurosis of

American men. The fear of being seen as feminine is so hilariously noticeable. I laugh every time I see that "Real Men Love Jesus" bumper sticker, if that doesn't show a insecure feeling about ones sexuality or perhaps sexual orientation -I don't know what does. Churches are just trying to financially exploit the sexual insecurity of American men. It is not just religious US males, you see it in the current popularity of Harleys.

[Dr Fate]

77. Oh well- so you guys don't eat pussy then.

Your loss- & hers.

Have fun hanging out in the sweaty locker room together, tough guys.

[area51]

78. It's not "Promise Keepers"...

... it's Losers & Weepers. :evilgrin:

[bitchkitty]

84. A lot of small dicks trying to be big dicks. Creeps. n/t

[VegasWolf]

86. Yes, they BELIEVE that men should kiss snakes, not women. n/t

[Megahurtz]

91. LOL!!!

:rofl: Okay I didn't see that, that's funny!

[Megahurtz]

90. These guys are nuts.

It's as if they started their own Fundamentalist Cult, and made up their own rules.
Just another group of Fundamentalist Whackos :freak::freak::freak::freak: with plenty of skeletons in their own closets.

I knew a couple of women whose ex-husbands had tried the PR route, because their ex-husbands had the same problem of always cheating on them. They could not stay loyal to one woman, and by the description in some of these other posts, it seems to be the common thread with these guys (probably amoung other dishonest things about them that they keep buried in their closets)

Since a lot of these guys are basically sleazebags that would hop on anything at anytime, they do a lot of finger-pointing and blame-shifting in attempt to make themselves feel superior.

And whoever started "Promise Keepers" is playing on these guys's major flaws just to rake in the money.
What is it, a "Non-Profit" organization or something?
Is this their own "unethical corporate practice" that they are speaking of???

And to the Pastor that said "There is an Eve in every man until it's taken out",
Fuck You, Dude!:grr: Go get some therapy or something!

[progressivebydesign]

97. They should look to corporate polluters then..

.. since recent studies show that the levels of certain industrial contaminants repress testosterone and male development in babies, then I'd say they should think more like the Sierra Club and less like... well.. Fred Phelps, preacher of hate.

[MrScorpio]

98. I wonder if they endorse spanking

I gots to keep my spank hand strong

[mitchum]

99. Promise Keepers founder Bill MacCartney apparently had very bad...

parenting skills. Unfortunately, the rest of have to suffer this nonsense.

[glitch]

100. Isn't there a comet these boys can catch?

Or, oh just rapture already.

[RatRacer]

102. I guess I'll swim against the tide here...

...I know a few couples, 3 or 4, in which the husband went to one or more of these PK gatherings and are into it. Their stories are almost the exact opposite of what a lot of you are describing. The women are all very happy that their spouses went to those meetings. The guys are more engaged at home with the kids, more attentive to their needs, more responsible and so on. I realize that this isn't a representative sample, and there are bound to be people who go and still act like assholes to their families, but I'm just telling you that apparently, sometimes the glowing reports are true.

[HuckleB]

104. I've read PK propaganda to that end, but have not seen it acted out.

in real life. I've heard a number of horror stories via the religious side of the family, however. The best news I've heard is early "improvement," meaning the guy finally did some of the things he should have been doing all along, but, alas, it didn't last.

Further, I do wonder about women who are happy that their husbands are finally doing what they're supposed to do, while following a creed that keeps the husband a step above the woman in terms of decision making. I mean, if these guys can't be men enough to live life on equal terms with all adults, how are they men at all? Developmentally speaking, of course.

[atommom]

109. I'm biased against PK because the only men I know who really

got into it were (and continued to be) bad husbands. When I read the PK literature, I do see it giving a lot of leeway to the man to act as he pleases, while giving the woman very little leeway. Not all men would use that as justification to act like Neanderthals, of course. It's just that PK dovetails nicely with the preferences of insecure macho men, and puts a Biblical shine on it too.

[Shallah Kali]

106. "Women can't get enough of good headship"

Sex As a Weapon
Decoding the literature of the Christian men's movement
http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:F46xDFMWshwJ:https://www.nerve.com/dispatches/sharlet/sexasaweapon/+&hl=en

Take, for example, God's Gift to Women (the title of a manliness guide for young men), male "headship" of the American family. Women can't get enough of good headship, but a man must be careful; a woman's hunger for his headship may lead him to abuse its potency through the sin of anger. A few years ago, I learned in an evangelical magazine what to do in such a situation: push your anger down and store it inside your heart, where Jesus will work it over it until it is ready to be "released," transformed into "white-hot brother love."

SNIP

But the specter of gay marriage still serves a function. Christian conservatives take pains to distance themselves from the sexism of their forefathers. Every Christian man-guide emphasizes the claim that women play just as important a role in the maintenance of what evangelicals view as society's all-important unit, the family, and it's more than dishwashing, suckling, and sex (though what else they are to do is not often discussed). Women must submit to their husbands, but their husbands in turn must commit to "serving" their wives. The phrase that comes to mind is "separate but equal."

But with Christian womanhood restored and redeemed, a crucial character in the Christian conservative morality play has gone missing: the seductress. It is no longer acceptable to speak of loose women and harlots, since sexual promiscuity in a woman is the fault of the man who has failed to exercise his "headship" over her. It is his effeminacy, not hers, that is to blame. And who lures him into this spiritual castration? The gay man.

[TankLV]

116. Headship

Heh Heh

Heh

Heh

[AndyTiedye]

119. Do school bullies turn into promisekeepers when they (don't) grow up?

[Cocoa]

122. the culture wars are so 90's

back when we didn't have real wars, we had the luxury of fighting culture wars.

I guess that's because our president was "feminized" back then. :shrug:

[fob]

123. You know , this must be the 15th time I've glanced at this subject header

while it's been on page 1 and until just now I SWEAR it read; "Promise Keepers plans 'feminization' of males (the cult of misogynism)".

And I thought, "Good for them" and just skipped right on by. I think I'd better take a break.

[struggle4progress]

124. The Gospel According to the Troglodytes. eom

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

125. i'd surly want to be the head of my household

leading by good example, beeing helpful, do things rather than just talk about it. Hard Power is for wussies, INFLUENCE by convincing with reason and emotions, conscience beeing the passing test for actions is the key.

Of course i'd be willing to follow good examples and listen to convincing advice both emotional and rational passing MY conscience test by my just-as-head.

There's no way i'll let me dominate by a woman (or a man for that matter). If she can command me it is because i let her. If we are in disagreement it'll be a challenge to make my point either i'll be the victorious or i'll have learnt something new. (and can bite her ass in another argument)

win-win, compromise and of the occasional asked or unasked favours. Beeing the head YES! being it alone NO!


But hey what do i european know? Conscience and common sense are so out in the new millenium...