NYT: The Five-Bedroom, Six-Figure Rootless Life (economic segregation)

[DeepModem Mom]

(NOTE: This article is another in the NYT continuing series of articles about class in America. The voting patterns of the growing numbers of these "relos" is not addressed.)


The Five-Bedroom, Six-Figure Rootless Life
By PETER T. KILBORN
Published: June 1, 2005


....As a subgroup, relos are economically homogenous, with midcareer incomes starting at $100,000 a year. Most are white. Some find the salaries and perks compensating; the developments that cater to them come with big houses, schools with top SAT scores, parks for youth sports and upscale shopping strips.

Others complain of stress and anomie. They have traded a home in one place for a job that could be anyplace. Relo children do not know a hometown; their parents do not know where their funerals will be. There is little in the way of small-town ties or big-city amenities - grandparents and cousins, longtime neighbors, vibrant boulevards, homegrown shops - that let roots sink in deep....

***

They are part of a larger development that researchers are finding: an increasing economic segregation. A Brookings Institution analysis of census data last year reported that the percentage of people living in affluent or poor suburbs in 50 metropolitan areas increased from 1980 to 2000, and the percentage living in middle-income areas declined.

Converging on these towns, relos have segregated themselves, less by the old barriers of race, religion and national origin than by age, family status, education and, especially, income. Families with incomes of $100,000 head for subdivisions built entirely of $300,000 houses; those earning $200,000 trade up to subdivisions of $500,000 houses. Isolated, segmented and stratified, these families are cut off from the single, the gay and the gray and, except for those tending them, anyone from lower classes....


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/01/national/class/01ALPHARETTA-FINAL.html?oref=login&pagewanted=all

[MrModerate]

1. Two comments: 1) when their kids start leaving home . . .

they'll no longer be "cut off from the single . . ." etc. Their kids won't have the money to insulate themselves and will pull them -- kicking and screaming, perhaps -- into the world of "other people." Six figures doesn't make you rich, just comfortable. And there's not enough to pass along, even in the absence of an estate tax.

2) However, in the meantime, these people can pretend that any involvement by themselves in politics is pointless, or that supporting a party that doesn't put high-earners on a pedestal would compromise their comfortable lives. And what party would that be?

[DeepModem Mom]

3. I think you're right on both counts, MrM. nt

[Career Prole]

4. "Six figures doesn't make you rich, just comfortable."

I'll bet I'd feel rich. :)

[OrwellwasRight]

11. Technically, $100,000 does make you rich.

It puts you in the top 10% of wage earners in the country. If the top 10% isn't the rich, then who is?

Middle means middle, and does not include everyone short of Bill Gates.

[DBoon]

18. $100,000 per year buys the middle class dream of the 1950's

with that much money you can afford:

- New home in the suburbs
- New car
- College for kids
- Private physician (not an HMO)

Folks in this income category aren't rich - the rest of us have just become poor.

The news isn't that folks make $200,000 per year, it's that the median income has remained so low for so long.

[OrwellwasRight]

26. Well, I guess that means that those who make $50,000 have become

the permanent underclass. Right.

Why can't rich folks ever admit they are rich? All those things are things that rich people have. I don't have them and probably won't ever have them. If the top 10% do, good for them, but it still doesn't make the top 10%=the middle. The top 10%=the rich.

There's nothing worng with admitting one is rich (unless of course it has to do with the feeling that being rich brings additional obligations to contribute to society that one does not want to take on).

[driver8]

31. It depends on where you live...

In San Francisco, $50,000 is not a lot of money. In the little town in upstate NY where I grew up, if you make 50 grand a year you can live like a king!

I live in Los Angeles with two children and a mortgage -- I could never do it on $50,000 a year. I could, but the house would have to go.

[DBoon]

33. The distortions in the housing market reflect skewed income distribution

The extreme inequality in the American distribution of income is reflected in housing prices.

[DBoon]

32. The problem isn't what the "rich" have

It's what we now call the middle class does not have (and once did).

The problem isn't the top 10%, it's that the median is so badly off.

Most folks making $100,000 / yr are still selling their labor. Not a bad price, but still selling their labor.

Living decently shouldn't be a luxury for the top 10%. Once upon a time America promised that sort of lifestyle for everyone. If we still had a unionized manufacturing workforce like we did in the '60s, I'd bet your more senior production workers would be making about $100K

[driver8]

36. D Boon -- I agree with you.

I am in a union and consider myself lucky to have what I have. A decent job, a good wage, and excellent health care for my family. Everyone in this country should be able to have these things...but it is getting harder and harder to achieve.

[OrwellwasRight]

49. No, the problem is what the truly poor do not have.

And whining about how hard it is to get by on $100K is hardly productive to helping the truly working poor. Let's solve that problem first.

[d.l.Green]

53. It is hard to get by on $100K, so I realize how hard it must be for those

making less. Where I live the median income is significantly below $50K, and it's only us commuters who are away from our homes 12 hours a day who pull even that figure up. I've been very lucky to have been able to stay where I am, make a home and become an active, influential part of a community, but I've encountered many seemingly transient upper middle class people come and go. But that's part of the reason why our community is so poor. If there were more educated, creative people sticking around long enough to make a difference, things would be better for EVERYONE, especially the poor. There would be more economic development, more job training programs, better schools, even just better basic administration of our city's budget.

[DBoon]

34. Can someone making $50k/year afford these:

- college education for the kids
- new car every few years
- house in the suburbs
- Private physician (not an HMO)
- Fully funded retirement??

I won't mention a stay-at-home spouse.

This defined the American standard of living once.

Will $50,000/year still support this in most of the US?

[SlipperySlope]

39. Can someone making $50k/year afford these:

Heck, I honestly don't think that a person earning $100k per year can easily afford those. Stay-at-home spouse? Fully-funded retirement? Private physician?

Some of these people are still working stiffs. Well paid working stiffs, but stiffs none the less. One paycheck away from everything falling apart, with "social pressure" to keep up the illusion.

[OrwellwasRight]

48. Can someone making $50,000 a year afford these:

-a decent meal whenever they want one (e.g. without resorting to food stamps or top ramen?)

-a roof over their heads (even if isn't a sprawl inducing suburban home)?

-clothes purchased somewhere other than the Salvation Army thrift store?

The answer to all of these is yes. And that's a hell of a lot different from wallowing in poverty in a slum.

Saying that the top 10% should realize they are rich does not mean I was arguing that people at $50K can reach all their material dreams. Of course they can't. But not being able to own all you want is not the same as struggling to get through the day to ensure that your children don't go to school hungry. If we only focus on "woe is me, I only make $100,000," we have lost sight of a lot of what is important about politics.

[Lorien]

61. It depends on where you live

I compared costs of living in central Florida and Glendale, CA a few years ago when I received a job offer out there. A $100,000 income in Glendale was equivalent to a $45,000 income in Orlando-so in SoCal $100,000 is "middle class".

[annabanana]

72. (not around NYC). . . . . . .eom

[BiggJawn]

13. Me too.

6 figures compared to the lower 5 figures?

Probably like the feeling a mouse gets when it discovers that it can scare a cockroach...

[Career Prole]

22. LOL!

Good analogy! :D

[SpiralHawk]

2. "...except for those tending them..."

Hmmm, here we have a description of the "ownership society" that Bush and the Republicans are bringing us.

The rich are tended to by the proles, who for all intents and purposes are owned by the wealthy Republican "Master" class.

But this, too, shall pass.

[shrike]

15. Reminds me of some folks I know in Beverly Hills

The poor section of Beverly Hills, mind you.

They have hispanic gardeners, maids; everybody on the block does. They have no problem with the fact that most of their employees live in crowded, not-so-pristine apartments. They think they want to live that way.

[ret5hd]

5. good for them, as long as they realize that those gates might someday...

be locked from the outside.

[glitch]

21. This is my favorite point to make

the looks on the faces are priceless!

[Justitia]

6. I agree w/this article, but want to mention ONE missed benefit

I have lived the corporate relo life and the article is dead on, but there is one benefit that is missed.

When you relo over and over for jobs, coming into a new area you tend to look for others that have recently relo'd as well, to share info, make connections w/folks who also might feel left out of established communities. In doing so, my family was exposed to many, many different kinds of people from all over the country / world. From each coast, from overseas, from the "heartland", the NE, the deep south, from different races and religious backgrounds. You kind of form your own ex-pat community bound by the common experience of "relo". In other words, you expose yourself to people from all different parts of the country (sometimes world), which you might not do if you stay in the same geographical area your entire life.

In my own experience, I found all my fellow "relo-ers" to be genuinely interested in mtg new people and were much broader minded in socializing w/people not from their same ethnic/religious/nationality subset.

OOOooohh! Forgot to mention something very important! When I moved to areas that were very "red", these "relo-ers" were often the only infusion of new DEMOCRATIC blood we'd ever get in an area. Talking to other "relo'd" Dems was a continual source of comfort and relief from "fish out of water" syndrome.

The rest of the article nails it.

[northzax]

9. I agree, for some people

I grew up the child of professional vagabonds, never more than five years in one place, 5 states and three foreign countries. Home is where people are, not a specific space.

[KoKo]

12. I found this true in the 80's with the Corporate Relo's that they were

very open minded and anxious to meet and make friends. But during the frenzied late 90's continuing up until now, folks moved farther and farther out into the "McMansion" suburbs which are very distant and self contained and folks know they will be moving and keep the relationships shallow because of the pain it causes when there's another "relo."

At least in the 80's my experience was that there weren't any McMansion neighborhoods we relocated into newer subdivisions of small houses on the outskirts of cities. At that time there were more fesitivals, and community activities because there were some Senior Citizens around who were used to that. The generation that held together communities is now in nursing homes and those of us who were to replace them to keep the social fabric going were relocated again and even with kids out of the house we are still rootless not quite fitting into the places we've landed. And, we don't have a network to keep the social fabric together, because of this.

My husband and I are part of the first wave of Corporate Relo's and had it easy compared to what I see around me today. We had to pay capital gains on our houses unless we bought more expensively, and we didn't have all the credit card, SUV Mania and house status that's out there today.

This article points out so much that's shallow about our society, and why a "strong leader," who seems so cheerful like that idiot Emperor would be appealing. Folks don't have to think with the Emperor in charge and they are just too busy to focus. This couple seems to be "getting it" but they are still so caught up in the "hampster wheel" it will take their own kids not having opportunity before they see what's happened.

[llmart]

29. Agreed.

I've been "reloed" a couple of times for hubby's job and I wouldn't trade the experience for anything. It broadens one's horizons. The most boring, staid, unworldly people I know are those who have stayed in one small town all their lives. They are also the most narrow minded (usually).

My children are more worldly and open-minded than those the same age who have never lived in more than one place.

And I have to say that in some places earning $100,000 per year (I'm talking gross wages here)is far from wealthy. It is comfortable, but not what I would call wealthy.

[MadHound]

42. Gee, thanks for the broad brush slap

I've lived in one area all of my life, and wouldn't consider myself boring, staid. or unworldly, nor am I narrow minded.

Gee, I even speak three languages, have friends world wide, and have a broad-based education. I can comfortably hang with all sorts of people, ranging from ivory towered intellectuals, to the boyz in the hood, to the good ol' boys out in the country. And on top of that, I would be willing to bet that I'm a hell of a lot more liberal than you are friend.

It is these types of prejudices that give liberals the reputation of being elitists and snobs. I would suggest you get out to some of the small towns you so disdain, and get to know the people there. I'm betting that you would be suprised at what you find.

[llmart]

44. Well, you obviously took everything I said completely wrong......

First of all, I stated my opinion as a generalization. I didn't say "all people who have lived in a small town all their lives", I said generally. I grew up in a small town, live in one now and work in a public library in a small, rural area that is growing. I deal with these people on a daily basis. The majority of our patrons are not coming to the library to take out books on other cultures, learn a new skill, do research on something. They are taking out our DVD's and videos and CD's and romance novels. Yes, we have some in this area who read intellectual books, but the majority do not.

So, don't tell me to get out to some small towns and "get to know people there". It's people like you who make snap judgments from a one paragraph post on DU.

You can always find the exception to every rule. You may be an exception, but I stand by the statement I made.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[phylny]

52. Fellow relo-er here, and I can echo most of your sentiments,

and the article's thrust as well.

In my husband's case, we turned down some relocations, but had we turned down others, he would have been out of a job (this most recent move is an example of that). Our kids have lived in five different homes, and they have fond memories of each neighborhood and their schools, soccer teams, you name it, along the way. Since my husband is retirement eligible in five years, and he is vested in the company's pension plan, stocks, and 401K, we'll do okay - he'll leave EvvilCorporation, take a lump sum, have health care benefits until we both die, and go get a job in the place we've decided we want to retire to. Life is a trade-off.

Parts of our relocations have been difficult on our children, but other parts have benefited them as well. They still keep in touch with friends in most of the places that we've lived, and have a very open-minded approach to new experiences and meeting new people. As a family, we can enjoy great memories of the different things we've done (one favorite memory is Friday night dinner outside in the summer at Jimmy's Grill in Naperville, IL). They've been able to see more of the country than I think we would have been able to had we stayed in one place, and our immediate family has become closer and closer as the years have gone by. You tend to create close friendships - when you move to a new area, your neighbors become your family - who else do you call when you go into labor at 2 a.m. and your dad lives 18 hours away? Speaking of family, we've been able to live near different family members for long periods of time, depending upon where we've lived, and that's been a blessing as well.

Another benefit (financial) is that we've been fortunate enough to sell each home and make a profit on it, which has enabled us to put a nice down payment on subsequent houses. No way would it appear that we earn enough for the house we're in, but since we had such a great down payment, the mortgage amount is more than affordable for us. Since we won't be here more than 5 or 6 more years, even our mortgage interest rate was low (3.75%) because we'll sell this house and buy our retirement home before the variable interest rate becomes too high.

In our current town, and other places that we've lived in, those who've lived in the same place all their lives appear to be closed off to new people moving in. Here, the long-timers are deeply entrenched in the collective mindset of this town, and I frankly find that to be a sadder state of affairs than any difficulties we may have had.

And no, we don't feel rich, but we do feel fortunate. I'm in a profession where my services are in great demand, but I work very hard to pay for college tuition. My husband will have 30 years of service in the same company, and we'll go buy a house by a lake once our youngest leaves, and have our children and grandchildren, and our friends from all over the country, as our guests.

[LeftHander]

7. McMansion's and TV Culture...

People have accepted that the 300k house in "Oak Terrace Park" is the place to be. thanks to TV that projects a culture of consumption. People that make six figures and live in McMansions watch more TV.

TV projects the culture that they participate in. It is a false culture of consumerism. TV stopped reflecting culture sometime in the late fifties. It (marketing and advertising execs) began creating a culture to sustain itself. The result is a "pefect lawn" culture in "East Willow Ridge"...where no willows ever existed, on the west part of town, in a drained wetland.

[Zorra]

40. "TV projects the culture that they participate in. It is a false culture

of consumerism."

Well said. TV is the ultimate marketing weapon. It creates an unnatural "norm" in order to generate a consumer oriented, Orwellian-Stepford type of individual and society.

This lifestyle disconnects people from their natural humanity by over-fulfilling basic material life needs while completely discounting basic psychological, emotional, and "spiritual" needs.

The result is an unhappy fleshbot frantically and aimlessly running around collecting things in order to project a more affluent image than their "neighbor", the culmination of which is usually the empty fulfillment of the false promise of TV culture embodied in the complete loss of self-identity. And all the while they are in self-defeating unproductive psychoanalysis/therapy, trying to figure out what is wrong with them and why they are so unfulfilled and miserable.

Living a life destructive to themselves and everyone and everything else, a life based on illusion and delusion, these sad, lost souls wander frantically and aimlessly through American Dreams with nowhere to go, but all eventually end up in the graveyard.

But for some reason, they always cut that part out of the TV sitcoms.

[LynzM]

47. Amen, sister

"This lifestyle disconnects people from their natural humanity by over-fulfilling basic material life needs while completely discounting basic psychological, emotional, and "spiritual" needs."

That's an excellent quote. I agree.

[gorbal]

64. Question

Are McMansions those giant barbie dreamhouses that keep popping up everywhere? Scary. I swear if aliens from outer space tried to take over our planet they would probably disguise themselves as reloes.

[KoKo]

8. A really interesting article. But it does say they voted Republican

buried somewhere in the long read. Their lifestyle seems similar to where I live. Frenzied, Bible Study, Soccer, Tennis, lessons for the kids but she has no real friends no matter how active she was in the "subdivision." They seem like a nice family, caught in circumstances that many folks today are in with our "Globalized" economy. Stuck off in subdivisions, isolated from diverstiy. It's interesting that in this recent move they chose to be closer to the City (Charlotte)and live in a smaller house which they paid almost $200.000 more for than the 3,900 sq. ft. one in Alpharetta, Ga. I guess "convenience" is more expensive than luxury. Maybe it will be a new trend?

Do you know how many other articles NYT's has done in this series? If they are all as well written as this one they would be a good weekend read.

[rodeodance]

10. the wondering corporate nomad in Amerika

[Rambis]

16. Overextended Rolex wearing elitist yahoos

ya they look good but they are strapped with 25,000 -40,000 on the cards, how do they do it? This is the trend in Iowa. The Des Moines "elite" think they are living in Chicago (wannabees)making big money. Meanwhile, they have a house that costs 300+ with two Suv's in the driveway and they are buying 3,000$ watches on their credit cards? I don't know about the rest of the country but these folks are going to go down hard and there won't be anyone making enough cash to take the 6 bedroom, 6 bath "investments" off their hands. Wake up Limey fish, hey! You can't declare bankruptcy anymore.

[rainbow4321]

19. Sounds like Freeperville, TX

also called Collin County, TX. I'm thinking we could find some layed off people who were forced to downsize from their $500,000 homes to teach these people a thing or two. The first Tuesday of each month is called Black Tuesday cuz it is when the house foreclosure list is released. At one time this list was lower to mid income people/houses. Over the last 5 years, it has come to have McMansions listed as $400,000+.

This (repuke) county was booming in the 90's..EVERYone in the high tech field moved here, thrived here, and then after Jan 2001, crashed and burned here. What goes up must come down and it did for these folks in a nasty way. Primary reason? High tech lay offs, outsourcing, etc... Now the county has turned to healthcare to drag our economy out of the gutter. We have more hospitals than Starbucks..with yet another (cardiac hospital) to break ground in a year.

Too bad there are NOT enough nurses to go around to actually care for the people in these hospitals. Things are so bad at one facility that the CEO is stepping down. The GOOD news about all these hospitals: They are eating away at Frist's local HCA facilities source of revenue. Now HCA has to settle for a smaller piece of the pie.

[Rambis]

30. Sounds familiar

My qustion is will the price drop so much that people could actually afford these shabily built slap together monsters or will they stand empty? That shade of grey or tan generic house does nothing for me. If you are into one of them for 8x's your salary and no one has a job....

[SlipperySlope]

38. bankruptcy for the rich

You really think that if the rich start going belly up, they won't find some way to hide the assets they have hidden? I think they can always find a way around the rules.

Time to start stockpiling gold and guns as a last resort!

[CoffeeCat]

41. I live near Des Moines also, and I totally agree...

...there are many people in WDSM and in the suburbs making around 100k--who have 350,000 houses, new SUVs, boats, designer clothes and all of the other trappings.

So many are overextending themselves and they're doing it with credit cards. I worry about these people.

Worse yet, the interest-only, ARMs that allow people to purchase their 350,000 home for $1,200 per month. That's just as frightening, if not more, than the 25k in credit-card debt.

These people are not evil or bad. They're friendly people that you see in the park or are in your carpool or children's play group. However, some of them are sorely misguided.

Somewhere along the line, people bought into this you-must-have-a-McMansion-two-SUVs-and-loads-of-crap-from-Pier1 mentality. Everyone's buying into it--at such a high price. When the bills roll in, I bet 30 percent of their take-home pay goes to interest on their "stuff" (house, cars, credit cards, store cards, etc).

It's so sad and frankly, it's frightening. Our economy is being artificially propped up by people buying lavish possessions with money that they do not have.

[DeepModem Mom]

20. Missed that, thanks! Should not read before coffee; sorry, folks.

[BiggJawn]

14. "Boomers"

No, not "Baby Boomers", but Boomers in the old sense, as in the men who'd work a few months for one railroad before moving on to another one. Just a major case of itchy feet, and these guys were pretty much accepted and somehow got tagged with the name "Boomers". And a "Boomer" in the process of moving from job to job was referred to as being "on the Boomer Trail".

So now we call them "Relos". I'm glad they stay in their own 6-figure Gated Communities. Saves me the trouble of having to explain why we keep getting "Bunji Neighbours" constantly moving on and out of "Da Hood"...

Oh, but I loved this part...
"Isolated, segmented and stratified, these families are cut off from the single, the gay and the gray and, except for those tending them, anyone from lower classes....

Oh, Booo. Hooo. that's why those Relos make those 6-figure paychecks, so they can buy themselves some happiness to salve the feelings of "isolation"...

[Redstone]

17. Poor babies. They have "stress and anomie."

Assholes.

Redstone

[Megahurtz]

54. Yeah I totally feel sorry for them.

Not.

[amandabeech]

23. I found it interesting that she and the children, at least, loved

rust-belt Rochester, even though she was from the Dallas area originally.

It sounded like the pace was a bit slower, the traffic considerably lighter, and much more sense of community from those neighbors who were long-time residents. All this inspite of higher taxes in overall Blue NY State and the long, snowy winters.

If I were a Rochester booster, or a booster from a similar city, I'd fax this article to every large corp in the country.

[madaboutharry]

24. We know people who basically make

the same income as us and live 2x to 3x as big. I don't get it. I don't know how they do it and if it means 25,000 to 40,000 on credit cards, then I don't know how they get any sleep.

[Zorra]

25. Soulless, selfish, thoughtless, phony, yuppie-fascist Planet Killing Pigs.

These destructive, pollution generating freaks are destroying our planet and our democracy, and don't give a damn. Individually and collectively, they thoughtlessly squander tons of our waning resources to support their mindless consumerism.:grr:

The only thing these plastoids really care about is their image.

Examine the language in this article:

two or three times a day, driving 10 and 15 times the one-mile distance.

eight-seat, leather-upholstered 2003 GMC Denali S.U.V.

on a hamster wheel

big houses,

upscale shopping strips.

molded by their companies

five-bedroom, four-bath home

First Union Corporation, part of Wachovia.

segregated themselves

cut off from the single, the gay and the gray and, except for those tending them, anyone from lower classes.

emblematic cars, Lily Pulitzer skirts and Ralph Lauren shirts, their golf, tennis and soccer and, most conspicuously, their houses, they have staked out their place and inflated the American dream.

homes are worth an average of $400,000

In politics, Republican candidates are shoo-ins.

you buy into the lifestyle

Illusionism

go to great lengths to impress others

busy looking down on each other

better than you are and I'm going to show you.' It's a kind of bullying

faking it

car may be the most visible sign of status

Mercedes is indicative of who I am

Mercedes....a way I have of making myself feel important, to have someone look at the best car on the road

seclusion

etc.

Hey, IMO, it's perfectly ok to be comfortable economically.

But not at my expense, by putting my life, health and my kids' future at risk.

"Live simply so that others may live".

[earth mom]

70. I hear ya...they are very shallow and self centered indeed.

I can't stand em. They've totally invaded our peaceful, serene middle class area-the little bit of heaven-that we happened upon 6 years ago. Aaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhh! Yep, you know it: Mega McMansions with the latest model S.U.Vs parked in their driveways while they parade around in their designer duds. :eyes: Jeez! We moved here to get AWAY from these people, but ironically enough, my kid now goes to school with their kids-even though we don't live in "their" neighborhood. And I just gotta say that I have absolutely NOTHING in common with these people-and I never would even if I became a billionaire! And for the record, I'm no country bumpkin-I grew up in the big bad city-but these people disgust me with their oneupmanship and total shallowless. It's sick! :puke:

Home schooling is sounding better and better to me every day-not because I'm religous-far from it-but anything to get away from these shallow, boring, empty, plastic, yuppie, phony, rethuglicans! :grr:

[applegrove]

27. If they are not paying taxes to the greater municipal area they are

creating poverty.

[Zerex71]

28. My thoughts on this.

I might be peripherally what is considered as a relo, having done it as a single guy now for about six or seven years. This is the first place I've lived in more than a couple years now. Mostly, to be honest with you, it was because the engineering job market was so lousy, and thus, after two layoffs and two necessary moves, it became fairly standard for me to have to deal with. (In the past seven years I've worked for five different companies.) So in my case, it's been about the job situation and not wanting to leave an area, but having to.

Also, something for people to consider is, you don't get the raises and promotions like they used to (relatively speaking) hand out. Two percent or less is standard these days, and the only way you're going to make any money, at least any that keeps up with your lifestyle or earning potential, is quite frankly to quit and join another company. So, I can very much see how moving around like this whether you're moneygrubbing or not (and I'm not) causes one to be a 'relo'.

I have roots in my mind to different places, different times, and different people, and yes, you sacrifice the feeling of knowing Joe Blow for 25 years down at the local tavern or whatever. I notice that people who have lived very long in one place tend to be very provincial, and after a while, I feel the need to go explore other parts of the country, to experience it, say that I have lived somewhere, expand my horizons, and build character. I would have to say I'm very satisfied with my experiences in doing so, but you definitely lose something of a familial 'support network' in doing so.

As for where I as a supposed relo would live, well, I like living in nicer neighborhoods and not being around scuzzy parts of town. I've lived in nice areas and not-so-nice areas, and at the end of the day, all my experience taken together, there's something to be said for living in a nice place, even if it does make you look like a standard Yuppie to most people. I think it's quite possible to have a nice house and yet not be of that consumerist mindset. I don't have to live in a slum area to prove some supposed 'moral superiority' to anyone.

[llmart]

45. My, my.......

way to paint small town folk with a broad brush. You're such an elitist, intellectual snob (according to MadHound). I have to agree with you that wanting to live in a relatively nice area is not a statement that you look down your nose at people who don't. Sounds to me like you are a well-rounded individual from having lived in many places.

[Zerex71]

50. I am proud of my liberal, elitist snobbery. :)

And yet, I have no trouble living in any place. I just prefer to live in places where the community has decided it's not in their best interest to project a slovenly image. Neither do I like cookie-cutter Yuppie factories.

But you already knew all that. ;)

[llmart]

60. Ha. Ha.

Wondered what you would respond to my post:)

[Hardrada]

35. I live in a smaller Iowa town

And living is not all that expensive. Our solution is not to live in a suburb but in a pleasant small town between cities and we can drive just half an hour for suburban mall amenities etc. or a little longer for a bit more sophistication. In any case the old provincialism is not as extant as before with the advent of the Internet, C-span etc. As to neighbors, the ones we just socialize with the ones who share some of our views. I drive through a lot of Chicago suburbs in my work and wonder what the point is of huge "mansions" with only two or three people living in them. The point of the big old Victorian mansions was to house servants and an extended big family. There is really no social need for the present day tedious monstrosities.

[THUNDER HANDS]

37. where I come from a $300,000 house is in the poor neighborhood

But I'm a Long Islander, so my views are probably skewed.

[Danmel]

56. Me too Magic Rat

I was thinking, other than Wyandanch and Hempstead, where could you buy a house for $300,000 or less?


Good thing I'm in my house for almost 8 years. I couldn't even think of buying it now.

[HockeyMom]

66. How about a $365,000 2 bedroom Senior Condo (only $4,000/year in taxes)

in Coram? Way out, way, way out.

[Danmel]

69. I'm not a Senior

I have two kids in school- wouldn't really want to be in that district and Coram is way too farout for me.Long Island is not an easy place to live.

[KoKo]

43. This article offends many DU'ers but it's a read we need to vanquish the

Repugs. Some DU'ers are fighting living with this...and we need help.

:shrug:

[siliconefreak]

51. Chilling

Wow. Reading that article made me feel anxious and sad for them. At least they learned that the current-day "American Dream" isn't all its cracked up to be.

[SoCalDem]

55. The whole "middle class thing" was a bubble..and we believed it

It was "payback" for the WWII generation, but not for their descendants. By the time the Boomers were maturing, it was starting to unravel, and it's mostly un-done by now.

The bubble was big,and it glistened in the sunlight, but just as we reached for it, the air movement caused by our motion, made it drift farther from our grasp..

We have been grabbing at it for decades, but it mostly stays out of our reach.. When we DO manage to grab it, it pops...

It's all a mirage..

No matter how much money you have, it's never enough..if you make 20K or 200K,, It's all relative:(

We are a "never-satisfied" culture.. That attribute once led us to create and invent...lately it only makes us unhappy because our expectations always exceed our reach:(

[Francine Frensky]

57. Wow. That's my neighborhood and I know some of those

people in the article. Spooky reading.

[Locrian]

58. password

can someone please post the link to the password place so I dont have to register to view this article??

thanks

[Dirk39]

59. Hello from Germany,

http://bugmenot.com

Dirk

[Philabuster]

62. Interesting Responses

I am in that 100K household, yet my house is small. It does not seem like a lot of money and I live in a relatively low cost of living area. I agree that everything is relative because I have pitched in to do some stuff for some of the poor families in this area and seen how they live. So I can not complain, but its hardly what you would call a wealthy living by any means.

As an aside, it made me chuckle a bit when one of the posters mentioned that the 100K club did not have to worry about if their children would eat at all. In our school district, close to half of the kids are on free or reduced lunch. Most legally, some not. My son is not, but if he forgets his lunch money more than one day, he is not allowed to eat anything but a peanut butter sandwich or a ham sandwich <which he will not eat either> while the free and reduced lunch kids still get their full meal. It amuses me because if you are really worried about the diet of all kids, why would you hurt those who happened to forget to get their lunch money two days in a row. So yeah, I have often RUSHED to school worried my son would not eat a decent meal, while members of a poorer class need not worry. Took time out of my work and my day to make a trip for $1.50. Oh Well!

[VegasWolf]

63. Yeah!!! I didn't really feel comfortable until I passed 800K. :) n/t

[shrike]

68. Poor kid. A peanut butter sandwich.

Don't mean to be snarky, but maybe if your youngster didn't have Mom to bail him out, he'd remember his lunch money more often.

And I assure you, members of the poorer class have LOTS of things to worry about, even if they get a pass at your kids' school.

A peanut butter sandwich for lunch is a minor problem. Then again, I love peanut butter.

[Philabuster]

73. I do not take it as being snarky.

I agree, kids in poverty have a lot to worry about. My niece is at poverty level. I was just commenting that it always amused me that the school is so big on giving the students a good nutritious meal, yet when the kids who pay for lunch forget it, they get punished. And perhaps I say punished because my son does not like peanut butter, just like his dear old mom.

As to if he did not have me to bail him out, in some kids shoes I would agree. But in his particular case, sometimes he would go a couple of days not eating before he remembered to tell me. Other times, a teacher would force him to call me, and that is when I run up to the school.

[Zorra]

65. Thanks, Dirk!

:hi:

[Rex]

67. Oh boo hoo, when will I see them standing on the street corner

begging for money? :eyes: 100k to a homeless family is a dream come true.

[xchrom]

71. i can't imagine how this is healthy for the culture.

financial security is not bad -- but how can we trade the human emotional feeling for ''place'' for this security?

it's difficult for me to see how this -- long term --- translates for the good of society.