WP: Iraq Puts Civilian Toll at 12,000 ~ 20 per day

[NightOwwl]

Iraq Puts Civilian Toll at 12,000
Insurgency Claiming About 20 People a Day

By Ellen Knickmeyer
Washington Post Foreign Service
Friday, June 3, 2005; Page A01

BAGHDAD, June 2 -- Insurgent violence has claimed the lives of 12,000 Iraqis in the past 18 months, Interior Minister Bayan Jabr said Thursday, putting the first official count on the largest category of victims from bombings, ambushes and other increasingly deadly attacks.

At least 36 more Iraqi civilians, security force members and officials were killed Thursday in attacks that underscored the ruthlessness and growing randomness of much of the violence. The day's victims included 12 people killed when a suicide attacker drove a vehicle loaded with explosives into a restaurant near the northern city of Kirkuk. In Baghdad, gunmen opened fire on a market area crowded with civilians, killing nine, the Defense Ministry said. The U.S. military reported that two soldiers were killed Wednesday, by a bomb and by small-arms fire, in the western city of Ramadi. Thursday's violence demonstrated the ability of insurgents to keep up attacks despite a week-old security operation in Baghdad billed as the most aggressive yet by Iraq's new government, in office for less than two months.

<snip>

There have been 1,663 U.S. military deaths since the United States led the invasion of Iraq in March 2003, according to the Pentagon's official count. Bombings and other insurgent strikes have killed thousands of Iraqi security force members. No official totals have been released for those dead, or for the total number of civilian casualties since the start of the war. The U.S. military says it does not keep a comprehensive tally of people it has killed in combat, although it has released numbers of dead in major operations and has acknowledged civilians it has killed if it has become generally known that those people died during a U.S. firefight or attack.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060201098.html

[sam sarrha]

1. that is how many they kill...WE have killed a whole lot more than that..

:cry: :grouphug:

the Lancet says well over 100,000.. that includes the ones we sent to Uzbeckastan to be boiled to death..

[sabra]

2. how many have "allied" forces killed?

[dArKeR]

13. Ellen Knickmeyer, WP, says "The U.S. military says it does not keep a

comprehensive tally of people it has killed in combat"

So that's the end of her lying bitch whore investigation on the issue. No need to dig up some facts. No need to question this policy. Just forgot about it because she's a dirty lying puppet.

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(Subject line: "Ellen Knickmeye - No investigation to estimate "Killed by Allied Forces")

Iraq Puts Civilian Toll at 12,000
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/02/AR2005060201098.html


Ellen Knickmeye is an immoral and/or corrupt journalist. Basic reporting skills to question, investigate, and estimate this! Shame on the WP!

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[NIGHT TRIPPER]

3. multiply 1 person X "the number of bombs dropped" and you get

?
and that's if each bomb only killed one person.

Remember though,
each bomb killed more than one person.
And the bombing campaign started well before the "invasion" to try and provoke a response.
Not to mention those killed by gunfire..add that in later.
Not to mention the number of deaths due to the sanctions...add that in later.

What number do we come up with?

any geniuses at math out there?

[Darranar]

4. Who are they counting? Just bystanders? Iraqi soldiers?

I don't trust the supposed "government" in Iraq, it has every reason to lie about this.

[Roland99]

5. Above and beyond IraqBodyCount.net?

[drdtroit]

6. What about the other 88,000?

[RobertSeattle]

7. Should put in in equal per capita basis to US

Since there are about 10x the number of US Citizens, the equivalent US death toll would be 120,000 citizens.

[NightOwwl]

9. Unfortunately, you are correct...

"The reality that the war has claimed tens of thousands of civilian casualties in Iraq is never mentioned in any mass media news reports, not on CNN, not on the Lehrer News Hour, not even on NPR. Civilian casualties are only reported in conjunction with resistance attacks. According to a study published in the Lancet, the most highly regarded medical journal in the world with stringent peer-review procedures, 'at least' 100,000 civilians had died violently, the great majority of them at the hands of coalition troops."

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m12102&l=i&size=1&hd=0

[daleo]

8. Note, they are only talking about deaths due to "insurgent violence"

So, anyone killed by the original U.S./U.K. invasion, by the air campaign, or by U.S./U.K. troops since the original invasion aren't included. If you add these people, civilians and "insurgents", the total would go up by at least several hundred percent. Then, put in the people killed by the "Iraqi National Guard", and the 100,000 civilian deaths that the Lancet article estimated is not hard to believe. And that wouldn't include the large numbers who have probably died to destruction and degradation of the infrastructure due to the invasion (and earlier sanctions) - specifically degradation of water supplies, sanitation, electric power, and medical facilities.

[NightOwwl]

10. Yes...here is more from the article I linked to in post #9

Media keeps Americans in the dark about massive foreign policy failure
Kristina M. Gronquist, Online Journal Contributing Writer

May 27, 2005—The dismal failure of U.S. mass media to challenge Washington over its early decision and unsubstantiated reasons for going to war, combined with the media's incomplete coverage since the invasion, create a continual challenge for those of us who want to expose the truth about what is really happening. The success of the antiwar movement lies in its ability to disseminate information and provide a clear, truthful message about the need to end this war now.

<snip>

The basic truth—which is obvious to many but unreported—is that the spiraling violence in Iraq is symptomatic of a country in which there is mass opposition to the occupation and no government recognized as legitimate. Kenneth Katzman, an expert on the Persian Gulf region with the U.S. Congressional Research Service says, "We are approaching a situation that is unstable, of a war of all against all, complete chaos, where the government is ineffective, the security is ineffective, and anybody can be killed at any time by anybody."

http://www.uruknet.info/?p=m12102&l=i&size=1&hd=0

[daleo]

11. Very interesting - this caught my eye as well

"The study also described how American military doctors had found that 14 percent of soldiers and 28 percent of marines had killed a civilian: a huge, unreported massacre."

14% of 100,000 U.S. soldiers would mean at least 14,000 civilians.

[bluedeminredstate]

12. In the Chimp's own words,

it sounds like the administration is disassembling (that means not telling the truth says Mr. Webster/Oxford himself) about the numbers here.
Of course they're only Eye-Rakkis, so don't get your knickers in a twist (that means outraged or upset).

:sarcasm:

[Doctor_J]

14. This is more propaganda

we're still doing daily bombings. It has to be near 200,000 by now.

[Karenina]

15. And that's just the dead...

:cry: