Israeli soldiers firing across Lebanon border, live MSNBC no link`

[karlschneider]

Yikes......

Edit: I re-checked the rules and since this is not specifically an Israel/Palestine issue, it seems to be allowed...mods?

[northernsoul]

1. things are going pear-shaped in a hurry

I don't know what to think of this.

Looks like Sharon has decided that he's entitled to operate under the Bush Doctrine. This is where the the doctrine of pre-emptive attack leads us.

The sad thing is that this does nothing to make the Israeli people any safer.

[NNN0LHI]

2. Doesn't do too much for our safety over here either n/t

[Tinoire]

26. Ain't that the damn truth! The war on Terrorism is a pretext for Israel/US

to expand, dominate and exploit. Nothing less...


Beware of Wars on Nouns.

[HereSince1628]

34. Israel bombed Iraq nuclear power plant in 1983 pre-emptively

so pre-emption for them has its own precedent.

I think that what is more troubling is the possiblity that American forces in Iraq serve as a threat of a second front, thereby preventing Syria and its Arab allies from counter-attacking.

[THUNDER HANDS]

3. what are they firing at?

For those of us in the office caves....

[northernsoul]

5. Yahoo says they've been shelling some border village

Kfar Kila

here's the word from the AP:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=2&u=/ap/20031006/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_shooting

"The Lebanese security officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, and Lebanese soldiers who arrived at the scene after the shooting at sundown, said Israeli soldiers patrolling a road on the Israeli side of the electrified border fence fired at two vehicles, a sedan and a passenger mini van.


One of the Lebanese vehicles fired on was pokemarked by bullets but apparently not seriously damaged, the security officials said.


Israeli soldiers yelled at reporters and Lebanese soldiers who arrived at the scene about an hour after the shooting and ordered to leave the area.


One of the Lebanese soldiers replied, "This is Lebanese territory. We are not leaving," according to an Associated Press reporter at the scene


Israeli soldiers shouted back in Arabic: "Go away before we shoot you," the reporter who witnessed the argument said. "
</snip>

[Aidoneus]

8. Kfar Shouba

check www.lebanonwire.com if there's anything more, as the name implies they collect news articles about Lebanon. So far just a border village shelled and a few shots fired from the Israeli side.

[bemildred]

18. That's an interesting site.

Timur Goksel, a university lecturer in Beirut who served 24 years with a UN
peacekeeping force in south Lebanon, argues that Israel is running out of
options in trying to thwart Palestinian suicide bombers.
“Israel has tried everything else from closures, assassinations, house
demolitions. Now they are hoping the Syrians will pressure the Palestinian
groups,” he said.
Goksel added: “I doubt that Syria is running a proxy war against Israel
through the Palestinians. But the Syrians are a point of pressure against the
Palestinians. The attack is a way of getting the Syrians to do what the
Israelis cannot
do themselves.”


http://www.lebanonwire.com/0310/03100626DS.asp

[Aidoneus]

7. a South Lebanon village

no casulaties yet, it seems.

[Aidoneus]

4. Israel shells edges of south Lebanon border village

KFAR SHOUBA, Lebanon (Reuters) - Israeli troops in a disputed border area shelled the edges of a south Lebanese village Monday, security sources and witnesses said.

They said the shelling, which came one day after Israeli warplanes bombed inside Syria, hit the northern outskirts of the border town of Kfar Shouba. There were no immediate reports of injuries or damage.

In a separate incident, Lebanese security sources said shots were fired from Israel over the border.

"The Israelis fired in the air over Lebanese cars on the road between Kfar Kila and Adayseh with the excuse that they came under fire from our side," said a Lebanese security source. "But no one fired from our side and there are no injuries on our side."

--snip--

http://channels.netscape.com/ns/news/story.jsp?id=200310061213000276541&dt=20031006121300&w=RTR&coview=

[bemildred]

11. One might almost think they want to pick a fight.

Gone full tilt bozo.

[Aidoneus]

19. that's perhaps it..

Syria didn't take the bait and reacted diplomatically instead, so the Israelis bomb Lebanon knowing that Hizbullah most likely wouldn't take it with a smile. :shrug:

[Muddleoftheroad]

21. Or they were responding to an attack from THAT side, which is common

nt

[Aidoneus]

22. when was this?

if it was so "common", when was the last? mortars fired at jets overflying Lebanon don't count.

[Muddleoftheroad]

35. You always make me laugh

Rockets fired at Israelis living in Israel do count.

Happens all the time despite your denials.

[Aidoneus]

36. That may be, but you never directly answer my questions

I'll add the caveat of exact; when exactly was the last such event then? firing at jets doesn't count towards this. If it's just raining shrapnel, my question shouldn't require such evasions.. I happen to know the answer--the last rocket to fall for the sake of a rocket being fired at something other than a jet is in the occupied Shebaa farms region and then it's on military positions--, but I want to hear it from you. I would prefer exact terms as opposed to sloganized generalities and cliches, but I know enough not to expect too much.

[The Stranger]

33. Excellent analysis.

And far more likely than that muddled's response.

[BeHereNow]

28. New Yom Kippur Ritual?

It IS Yom Kippur today, is it not?
I don't remember any of my Jewish friends
observing Yom Kippur like this...

Reminds me more of the x-tians bombing
women's clinics for "GAWD."

BHN

[Aidoneus]

29. celebrating the anniversary with a "bang"?

it's also the 30yr anniversary of the start of the Ramadan War over occupied Sinai & Golan, can't be a coincidence..

[MoonAndSun]

6. Yahoo Link - breaking

<http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=540&e=2&u=/ap/20031006/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_shooting>



snip>
The reported incident comes amid heightened tension between Israel and Syria, Lebanon's close ally, following Israel's air raid on what the Jewish state said was a Palestinian militant base

[Nottingham]

9. OMG!! Israel is out of control! They Want WWIII

Lebanon has to get ready for invasion! This is serious stuff!

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MidwestTransplant]

14. Actually Syria destroyed Lebanon once

Israel helped but Syria is primarily to blame. Ask Lebanese people.

[The Stranger]

32. No, give us some facts to support your statements.

Preferably something supported by the historical record.

[northernsoul]

12. doom and gloom aside, what's the method to the madness here?

What's the strategy on Israel's part here?

Are these attacks purely for domestic consumption, to district the Israeli people into thinking that something's actually being done about the latest suicide bombings?

Are they testing the waters to see how much they can get away with now that there's about 130,000 U.S. troops covering their eastern flank?

Seems to me that they're flinging lit matches at a pile of oily rags. So everybody, get your best geopolitical thinkin' hats on, 'cause I don't understand what they think they're going to accomplish with this.

[Aidoneus]

16. there was discussion on that down in I/P earlier

It was somewhat settled on the idea that Israeli gov't's threats on Arafat weren't actually doing anything and couldn't be taken to any higher level without actually putting a bullet into him (thus depriving themselves of the perfect whipping boy), so they needed another way to direct the anger to keep domestic pressure down.

In fact, that was exactly the result--in another Yahoo article about the Syria bombing, it noted nonchalantly that domestic pressure for the gov't to do something about Arafat dropped after bombing Syria.

[Minstrel Boy]

20. I think Sharon's demonstrating impatience

for Bush's failure thus far to move ahead with the next phase of PNAC's "redrawing the map of the Middle East," and is doing what he can to force his hand. We're seeing increasingly provocative remarks and actions from Sharon, determined I believe to incite provocative responses from Palestinians and Arab neighbours.

John Bolton assured Sharon before the war that Syria and Iran would be dealt with after Iraq. Sharon can only be emboldened by the US occupation, despite the quagmire.

If a general war breaks out, no doubt Sharon believes the US presence will safeguard against Israeli defeat, whether or not US troops are drawn directly into the conflict. This is his window of opportunity to "clean house" with a free hand.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

13. wow karl i posted this at the EXACT time as you did here over in GD 12:41

:toast:

and ya know what i foound tell was that bush and Kenyan President had just had a press conference and a reporter asked bush about the Israeli attacks on Syria and bush said, "hey Israel has every right to defend itself"...20/25 minutes later ..."Israel attacks Lebanon" so imho bush gave Israel the "go ahead" with those bush words

[karlschneider]

15. I noticed!

:D

[ElsewheresDaughter]

17. and I guess bush needed this distraction because of "retaligate/intimigate

Wilson's wife CIA leak :7

[Aidoneus]

23. believe it or not, "BFEE" aren't behind everything

Israel was bombing Lebanese villages before Bush Jr. ever entered politics.

[Aidoneus]

24. now there are contradictory claims

the IDF denies firing anything, and says it was really Lebanese that fired the other way across the border. :shrug:

[tinnypriv]

25. UN says one of their trucks was hit from the Israeli side

Another IDF lie, methinks.

[Aidoneus]

27. ah

initial reports allow for too much confusion;..at least that limb I was sitting on isn't snapping.

One constant from the various contradictory reports suggest that there was at least no injuries/deaths reported yet (from either side that is reporting being attacked), perhaps this will not result in as bad a situation as it could, but the way things are going I doubt it's the last.

[sleipnir]

30. Interesting...

I wonder if the troops in Iraq are going to be called in to defend Israel from "attacks" real or imagined. Me thinks Israel is picking a fight with all the small kids on the block, but these are the kids with big, bad older brothers....

I don't know if we would step in a Israel-Arab war, as Israel is not really an Ally. Shocking, yes, but the inside political position has always been one of a "friendly" government, but not a military Ally, like NATO. I can see * committing the US to a silly war which will only ignite more Arabs to hate America.

[TheReligiousLeft]

31. Israeli troops injured in border shooting

<http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/7D5620B5-5846-4AD8-8441-BB1B14B6A48A.htm>


Israeli troops came under fire from suspected Hizb Allah fighters Monday evening, said Aljazeera’s correspondent in Israel quoting local security sources. Unconfirmed reports suggest one soldier was killed and another wounded.

There was no immediate word from the Lebanese armed group.

In response, Israeli troops returned fire and hit a bus travelling along a normally secure road near the border between the villages of Adayseh and Kfarkila, agencies reported