NewsLeader: MO site to fly Confederate flag Sunday (Gov, R)

[usregimechange]

Jefferson City — The Confederate flag is rising again in Missouri, and an NAACP leader is vowing a "drastic" response.

Republican Gov. Matt Blunt has ordered the Confederate flag to fly Sunday at the Confederate Memorial State Historic Site in Higginsville, where an afternoon graveside service is planned to mark Confederate Memorial Day.

The flag will fly for only one day, but a Blunt spokesman said Friday the governor also supports a scholarly review of whether it would be appropriate to again fly the Confederate flag regularly at the historic site.

http://www.news-leader.com/today/20050604-Missourisitetof.html

Yes, that is baby Blunt who takes health insurance from the disabled and elderly poor.

[evlbstrd]

1. Is there any democrat in Missouri who is really surprised?

I'm not.

[nightfox02]

2. me either...

We all now what the party truly stands for greed, bigotry, and fascism...(hidden behind a cross of course) Only in the 21st century it isnt a crooked one like in Berlin...

We should ban the flag nationwide, imho...It is a fucking disgrace to the troops and the republic....

[nightfox02]

3. know not now...sorry it is late 2:40 a.m....

i am tired...:(

[realisticphish]

4. Well...

this is a LOT different from a statehouse, IMHO. It is, after all, a Confederate Memorial. I really don't see a problem with flying it there(and there ONLY, of course).

[POAS]

5. What part of "YOU LOST"

don't the confederate apologists understand.

A war was fought and lost and now, 140 years later, the losing side wants the spoils of victory by claiming the right to plant their flag across the land.

How about if we let the Mexican's plant their flag at the Alamo to honor their dead. How about flying the Nazi German flag at Normandy on June 6th.

The flag is not about honoring the dead, it is about honoring the ideas that fueled the conflict by using the dead asa the excuse.

[leftofcool]

6. The old red, white and blue is just as offensive.............

ask any NDN. The American flag is just as offensive as any other flag of any other nation that gained land by stealing it.

Left of Cool

[opihimoimoi]

7. cooooolr o5 to replace systems to norrmal.

[POAS]

8. I have no doubt of that

By the way, and pardon the ignorance, what is NDN?

[leftofcool]

9. NDN= Indian...........

it's an old AIM thang.

Left of Cool

[POAS]

16. Thanx left

[Jim Sagle]

14. I like your pseud - truth in posting and all that.

[lynne]

11. Agreed -

- here is the link to the site, which is a historic state park.
http://www.mostateparks.com/confedmem.htm

I've no problem with the flag being flown for a historial memorial service. It's not about winning or losing but about history.

[Tomee450]

29. History?

Whose history? There are African Americans living in that state, doesn't their feelings about the confederacy and that flag matter at all? To them, that flag is just a reminder of how their ancestors were enslaved and that the southern states went to war to preserve that enslavement. That flag is a slap in the face to every black person in this country. The history that it represents is ugly. Not flying that flag will not hurt the whites who love it. It will cause nothing but pain to the black population when they see it. Most decent people refrain from causing hurt to others if it is not necessary to do so. The confederate flag belongs in a museum.

[lynne]

31. Yes, history -

- and it is the history of every black person who had an ancestor in the south, too. There are lots of times that history may not be pleasant but that doesn't change it. You can't go back and undo it. You can either acknowledge it and LEARN from it or you can ignore it and be condemned to repeat it.

I choose to acknowledge and learn.

[Tomee450]

34. And why should a black person

want to honor a history of the enslavement of their ancestors? That flag reminds black people of the buying and selling of men, women, and children, of lynchings, of attack dogs searching for runaway slaves, of maiming of those who tried to escape, of rape. You expect black people to honor a history that represents all of that? How absolutely absurd!! I suppose you think Jews would accept the flying of a Nazi flag in Germany since the Nazi era was part of their history too. The flying of the Confederate flag is an absolute insult to every black person in this nation and for you to suggest that we would want to honor the confederacy in any way is absolutely ridiculous. I am black and every time I see that flag I get angry. I don't want to see the Confederacy honored in any way. I certainly do not want to see a flag that represents evil.

[Capn Sunshine]

36. Hey, let's have a few Klansmen as an honor guard!

After all, they're part of history too!
Why we could have a lynching every day at dusk! That's part of history as well!

It all came right out of the Civil War after all.

Oh, and we should probably build a little White Socialist Christian People's Church Sanctuary there, as well. In keeping with the history of the place.

[reality based]

10. Confederate Republican Party, as Garrison Keillor once called it

The confederate flag is a symbol of treason and racism and should never be flown by any governmental entity.


"I know Jeff Davis well. He is as ambitious as Lucifer, and cold as a lizard." --Sam Houston http://cdl.library.cornell.edu/cgi-bin/moa/pageviewer?root=%2Fmoa%2Fharp%2Fharp0032%2F&tif=00644.TIF&cite=http%3A%2F%2Fcdl.library.cornell.edu%2Fcgi-bin%2Fmoa%2Fmoa-cgi%3Fnotisid%3DABK4014-0032-97&coll=moa&frames=1&view=50

[NewHampshireDem]

12. Thank you for using the "T" word ... Treason

The confederate flag is a symbol of treason and to fly it does not honor the confederate dead any more than flying a Nazi flag would honor the German dead.

[donsu]

25. agree - the slave flag should be banned

and sane Missourians should protest until its taken down forever.

[saigon68]

15. Maybe they can RESURRECT another quaint southern custom (graphic)

Lynching 1930

A mob of 10,000 whites took sledgehammers to the county jailhouse doors to get at these two young blacks accused of raping a white girl; the girl’s uncle saved the life of a third by proclaiming the man’s innocence. Although this was Marion, Ind., most of the nearly 5,000 lynchings documented between Reconstruction and the late 1960s were perpetrated in the South. (Hangings, beatings and mutilations were called the sentence of “Judge Lynch.”)

Link http://digitaljournalist.org/issue0309/lm18.htm

[realisticphish]

24. our flag is a symbol of treason too

it's just that we won... so then treason's ok, i guess

[reality based]

37. There is a qualitative difference in the rebellion of the colonies against

the British and the rebellion of the slavery interests against the Union. Read the Declaration of Independence and the Gettysburg Address. The rebellion against England was justified as an effort to preserve, enrich and extend life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness for the rebels in the face of what they perceived to be intolerable oppression. The Civil War was fought to preserve and extend the objectives and principles of that original rebellion against those who would distort and demean them. That war was to preserve the Constitutional arrangement which made practically possible the fulfillment, at least in some part, of those objectives and principles. Our flag is a symbol of the Republic created by that Constitution.

Read Daniel Webster's Liberty and Union speech of January 26, 1830:

"I admit that there is an ultimate violent remedy, above the Constitution and in defiance of the Constitution, which may be resorted to when a revolution is to be justified. But I do not admit that, under the Constitution and in conformity with it, there is any mode in which a state government, as a member of the Union, can interfere and stop the progress of the general government, by force of her own laws, under any circumstance whatever.

". . . It is, sir, the people's Constitution, the people's government, made for the people, made by the people, and answerable to the people. The people of the United States have declared that this Constitution shall be the supreme law. . . .

". . . To resist by force the execution of a law, generally, is treason. . . .

". . . I have not accustomed myself to hang over the precipice of disunion, to see whether, with my short sight, I can fathom the depth of the abyss below; nor could I regard him as a safe counselor in the affairs in this government whose thoughts should be mainly bent on considering, not how the Union may be best preserved but how tolerable might be the condition of the people when it should be broken up and destroyed. While the Union lasts, we have high, exciting, gratifying prospects spread out before us, for us and our children. Beyond that I seek not to penetrate the veil.

" . . . Liberty and Union, now and forever, one and inseparable!"

Secession brought a spiritual as well as a political crisis to each American.

As Lincoln in December, 1862 said to Congress: "Fellow-citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this Congress and this administration, will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance, or insignificance, can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass, will light us down, in honor or dishonor, to the latest generation. We say we are for the Union. The world will not forget that we say this. We know how to save the Union. The world knows we do know how to save it. We -- even we here -- hold the power, and bear the responsibility. In giving freedom to the slave, we assure freedom to the free -- honorable alike in what we give, and what we preserve. We shall nobly save, or meanly lose, the last best hope of earth."

The secessionists, traitors to the union and to the hope for which it stood, lost and, yes, by losing they remain traitors to this day and I repudiate everything their flag represents-- then and now. No, their treason was not and is not OK.

[tabasco]

42. Thank you for the post. n/t

[HeeBGBz]

13. People wonder why I'm leaving this state

Blunt is an asshole and a Shrubby wannabe.

[stlsaxman]

17. Stay and fight.

[HeeBGBz]

40. Nope, gotta go

Have some family things to attend to in another red state.

I will come back some day maybe.

I'm sure it will still suck here when that time arrives.

[Trajan]

22. After looking for decent work in Springfield for 9 months ....

and finding none ...

After finding a 'decent job' in the 10th month of my search, and hoping to receive a decent offer after my 90 day probationary period ...

After receiving an offer of $11 per hour of compensation after that probationary period, with HALF of a health care plan, NO pension plan (other than a 401K, which anyone can join anyways), NO other benefits of any value .... $11 per hour = $22,000 per year ... This is hardly above poverty wages, yet it is 'top pay' in SW MO ....

After opening a business, and watching it crumble under the weight of expense without sufficient revenue, and close down after a $70,000 investment ...

After watching rich republican doyens win the state government, and issue draconian orders to reduce public health services to a shamefully low level, all in the interest of enriching those GOP supporters personally ....

After finally having enough of all this bullshit:

Trajan left Springfield ... and finally found a decent (temp until Dec) job: Near the Denver/Boulder area .... Boulder is liberal heaven, and such a wonderful place to visit, and truly a gorgeous place to live ...

Trajan is now working for twice the wage he received at his Springfield MO job ... SW MO is Low Wage Hell ....

Trajan has broadened his search for a permanant job, and is now focused on a high tech job in Portland OR, yet another gorgeous and LIBERAL place to live ... THAT job will pay well, and have GREAT benefits .... A whole different world than SW MO ....

Trajan will hopefully get that job by next week, and restart his transition from SW MO loser to liberal winner ...

SW MO is hell ..... and Gov Blunt and his cohorts have helped make it so ...

In SW MO ? .... the GOP has won; the people have lost ...

Trajan is quite pleased to have SW MO in his rear view mirror ...

[tkmorris]

32. Oh God SW Missouri...........

After leaving the USN I lived for a while in a little town called Anderson Mo. It's south of Joplin in the SW corner.

It's a beautiful area but it's like the Town that Time Forgot or something. The biggest employer in the area was a chicken processing plant and the starting pay there was exactly what federal law declared to be minimum wage. There was a fire there that closed it down for weeks and on the day it happened I swear the evacuated employees stood in the parking lot and cheered the fire on.

If the Sleestacks in that town ever had gotten an inkling of just how liberal I actually was I do believe they'd have tossed my bleeding body into the river.

[Yupster]

39. Very few jobs

have pension plans anymore outside of the government.

The 401 (k) has been the plan of choice for most companies for the last 10-15 years.

If you make having a defined benefit plan a requirement of employment, you are really limiting yourself.

[legally blonde]

18. I didn't think it was possible for me to hate Blunt

more than I already do--until now. @$%^&*&@#$&***!!!! :mad:

[Toots]

19. IMO only a traitor would fly that flag of treason.

And they want to call us traitors because we want to defend the US from the likes of such men.

[lakeguy]

20. or a TERRORIST!

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[msongs]

23. when you give australia back to the aborigines ? :-) eom

[donsu]

27. you mean like we should give america back to the Indians?

isn't the pot calling the kettle black?

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[donsu]

26. agree with you - and the environment should be priority #1 worldwide

but with the criminal bushgang in charge of the biggest guns.....

we need all the help we can get to rid the world of them and their helpers, the kept ignorant american south.

thanks for speaking truth to power

[reality based]

38. And here we see the tragic consequences--for Americans--

brought on by the selection and rule of the ex-Governor of Texas (as well as that of several of his recent predecessors). We are losing any claim that our American experience, checkered though it may be, provides inspiration for those who struggle for the cause of human freedom, human dignity, human rights or even human survival. The confederate flag was the symbol of a way of thinking about government and society and human relations that is the very antithesis of what we had come to believe is the American way of liberty and justice for all and respect for all nations. We are now facing the possibility that old evils that once threatened our body politic are returning to threaten us, and-- through our military and economic power-- to threaten the peace and security of the entire world. Our concern about the confederate flag and what it represents is not irrelevant to you, my foreign friends.

[Postman]

30. Shouldn't the Nazi Swastika flag be flying over the US Capitol?

at least for a day, that is.

[deadparrot]

33. Doesn't surprise me.

The guy is a sicko, plain and simple.

[agincourt]

35. The pattern I've noticed the past 20 years,

is that the Americans like Jefferson, Washington, Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, and JFK are often dragged through the mud, but the Confederate icons like Bobby Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Jeb Stuart never get a balanced treatment. We are never told of their vices because they are sacrosant. Guess the powers that be, who control what we hear, think slavery wasn't such a bad idea, eh?

[Chauga]

41. Racist freepers will love this.

[usregimechange]

43. and here it is, flying under the current American flag