U.S. disbands Iraqi army unit

[Barrett808]

An Iraqi army unit has been disbanded after it refused to attend a U.S. training course in Baghdad, former members of the unit said on Saturday.

The soldiers said they feared reprisals from locals if they were seen to have cooperated with the Americans. (Reuters)

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3094763,00.html

[expatriot]

1. Now THAT's soveriegnty, people... wow. I am impressed. nt

[Supersedeas]

10. all your troops belong to us

[saigon68]

49. The PUPPET TROOPS won't let their MASTERS pull the strings

Quisling Lap-Dogs all.

[bemildred]

2. Rather terse. How big of a unit? How long on the payroll? Was it armed?

:think:

[Tux]

3. Figures

As long as we have Christians in gov, we'll never be out of Iraq. Their worship of death and disease is enough to trigger a world world that will end all life on this planet. We have to elect people with morals, ethics, and will promote democracy, life, and peace. We are all being lead to death by Christians. If you have Christian "friends", leave them. They will only want to kill you. My own fmaily supports Falwell et al's attempt to create a theocracy. Your "family" and "friends" may too. Best to leave them behind, get guns and ammo, and await the time to defend your rights from these warmongers. Look at Christians history and tell me that they won't start another war to kill all that are different from them.

[realisticphish]

5. fine

i guess i'll just go kill myself now, since i'm so terrible a person that you cant even imagine associating with me

:eyes:

[northzax]

51. well you are a buckeye...

and that should be reason enough...

[PurityOfEssence]

6. I suggest you bite your mail carrier. It might get it out of your system

Boy, I can't stand religion either, and consider the creeping theocracy a hellish danger, but it's not quite time for some kind of survivalist frenzy. Like it or not, the political battles of the near future will be won or lost by people of faith; our only real hope is for the religious left to organize and fight back. They're doing this, but whether they're doing it well enough or not is another question.

Sadly, as those without belief are not allowed to have a part in the discourse, whoever wins will be religious victors. This may be bad either way, even with a leftist win: one must still need to be a believer to really have a say so, and that has pretty chilling implications.

Not all believers are enablers and messianic murderers, so please chill out and don't just fan the flames.

[reprobate]

40. That's understandable when you consider that christianity, like many....

...messianic religions before it, is a death cult, symbolizing the life cycle of death and rebirth. The whole thing falls apart without the focus on death. Problem is, some of them take it to estreems.

[Judi Lynn]

43. It sounds as if you may have already read the "Breckenridge Memorandum"

written on Christmas Eve, 1897 by John C. Breckenridge, the U.S. Undersecretary of War, revealing his thoughts on how to deal with Cuba:

.....We must destroy everything within our cannons’ range of fire. We must impose a harsh blockade so that hunger and its constant companion, disease, undermine the peaceful population and decimate the Cuban army. The allied army must be constantly engaged in reconnaissance and vanguard actions so that the Cuban army is irreparably caught between two fronts and is forced to undertake dangerous and desperate measures.

The most convenient base of operations will be Santiago de Cuba and Oriente province, from which it will be possible to verify the slow invasion from Camagüey, occupying as quickly as possible the ports necessary for the refuge of our squadrons in cyclone season. Simultaneously, or rather once these plans are fully in effect, a large army will be sent to Pinar del Río province with the aim of completing the naval blockade of Havana by surrounding it on land; but its real mission will be to prevent the enemy from consolidating its occupation of the interior, dispersing operative columns against the invading army from the east. Given the impregnable character of Havana, its is pointless to expose ourselves to painful losses in attacking it.

The troops in the west will use the same methods as those in the east.

Once the Spanish regular troops are dominated and have withdrawn, there will be a phase of indeterminate duration, of partial pacification in which we will continue to occupy the country militarily, using our bayonets to assist the independent government that it constitutes, albeit informally, while it remains a minority in the country. Fear, on the other hand, and its own interests on the other, will oblige the minority to become stronger and balance their forces, making a minority of autonomists and Spaniards who remain in the country.

When this moment arrives, we must create conflicts for the independent government. That government will be faced with these difficulties, in addition to the lack of means to meet our demands and the commitments made to us, war expenses and the need to organize a new country. These difficulties must coincide with the unrest and violence among the aforementioned elements, to whom we must give our backing.

To sum up, our policy must always be to support the weaker against the stronger, until we have obtained the extermination of them both, in order to annex the Pearl of the Antilles.
(snip/...)

http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/bmemo.htm

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Breckenridge

http://www.gamepuppet.com/civilwar/generals/bio/jc-breckenridge.htm

(He was once a Vice President.)

[AlCzervik]

4. Here will be the spin-ready?

Rumsfeld " well thats what happens in a free country, under saddam if they refused they would have been put into the wood chipper"

[AgadorSparticus]

7. but, they've trained thousands upon thousands for the Iraqi army.

And if we go with faux numbers, perhaps even millions. It's going well. Repeat, it's going well. :eyes::eyes::eyes:

[cliss]

9. Exactly my thought.

They'll spin this, just watch. I've actually read conflicting information about the Iraqi "army" that the US is supposedly training.

CondaLoser said it was 140,000 soldiers. Somebody else said it was 4,000.

So how many are we talking about here?

[LiberalVoice]

8. It sound like the "insurgents" are turning the Iraqi army against the US.

A year from now I wonder how many Iraqi units will have to have been disbanded because they refused to be trained or fight with the US.

[Rose Siding]

11. Top US Iraqi police trainer is making very pessimistic statements

snip>
Heidingsfield, on leave from the Memphis and Shelby County Crime Commission (he served as Scottsdale chief from 1991-98), is contingent commander of the State Department’s civilian police advisory mission. As the top American civilian helping to create an Iraqi police force, he assesses the training of Iraqi police on the ground. The danger he faces is illustrated by statistics released this week: 151 Iraqi cops were killed and 325 wounded in May alone.
...
During a series of interviews in Jordan and Iraq, Heidingsfield was brutally honest about factors that will help decide whether the United States is successful in this mission or not.

It’s not just al-Qaida that he has to worry about. It’s militant Sunnis, it’s the notorious Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and his followers, and it’s organized crime.

"My greatest concern is that Iraq, if it is not stabilized, will never get beyond where we are today," he told Sullivan. "And if the level of insurgency were to continue, it will be a daunting challenge to reshape the Iraqi police into an organization that understands that they’re critical to the future of the country. That’s what worries me."

He described the insurgency as alive and well, expressed the frustration he feels when he hears overly optimistic views of the situation, and at one point said, "It could go on like this forever."

http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=42535

[cal04]

12. Iraqi troops refuse US training

An Iraqi national guard unit has been disbanded after it refused to attend a military training academy overseen by US advisers, former members of the unit said on Saturday. The soldiers, part of a 90-strong force that calls itself the Defence Force of Rutba, said they feared reprisals from locals if they were seen to have cooperated with the Americans. "The people here would believe that we were cooperating with US forces and that is a reason for anyone to be killed." A US military official who oversees training said Iraqis who refused to attend courses could be dismissed, but said the decision rested with Iraq's Ministry of Defence.

Another former soldier in the force, Ahmed Dhahi, said the disagreement began two months ago when he said the US military first raised the idea of them attending a training course. "They told us we had no right to refuse, they said the duty of soldiers was to obey orders, but we said 'We are Iraqis, not Americans, we don't follow orders from Americans'," he said. "We did not want the locals to think that we were working with the Americans and then threaten us."

Mr Dhahi said that once it became clear that the unit would not attend, the US military took away their weapons, uniforms and identification tags and dismissed the force. Rutba, on the main highway heading to Jordan, is a predominantly Sunni Arab town with strong tribal allegiances. It has been the scene of occasional violence over the past two years, including attacks on military convoys. A member of Rutba's local council said the soldiers, who had been receiving a salary of around $300 a month, were right to refuse to attend the course.

"The soldiers have all the right if they refuse to go because we understand the reason why they have taken this position," said Hamid Saleh al-Kubaisi.
"We have tried many times over the past two months to get the Americans to change their order, but they have insisted that they must go. The council has no effect on anything because the Americans don't listen."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200506/s1384830.htm

[truthisfreedom]

13. heh. analysis, mr. Spock?

anyone care to venture a guess what happens next?

[orpupilofnature57]

14. I turn Shrub on to ,Ken Burns excellent series "The Civil War" eom

[Cooley Hurd]

22. ...and he would say, "Why was life in olden times in black and white?"

:D

What's up dude?:hi:

[pinniped]

15. The Merkans are running the show and calling the shots?

I thought the Iraqis received that sovereignty paper?

I even saw the chimp's "Let freedumb reign" note.

[orpupilofnature57]

16. What have they excepted from us so far ? Food ? Clothes? Water?

Just one more benefit of Shrubs Unjust war.Victory is a figment of Kkkarls imagination.

[merwin]

17. I'm pretty sure this is the majority opinion of most Iraqis. They're not

very fond of us over there.

[Disturbed]

18. Iraq had an Army...

but the Amerikans just let them melt into oblivion with their weapons. Real smart move, eh?

[merwin]

19. It's almost like... they actually wanted the insurgency :-P

Sure makes for a good quagmire, Captain Cuckoo Bananas!

[lebkuchen]

20. Is Bush in a bind or what?

His US army/marine reenlistment rates are down, his enlistment rates for the last five months are way down, his casualty rate is at least 10%, the Iraqis won't take US orders because they value their lives, Iraq is in chaos, Afghanistan is headed that way.

Does Bush throw in the towel on his greed or escalate his self-made disaster in order to justify the draft?

[leftchick]

21. nothing will change cuz

bush is "resolute" and "dogged"! Excellent qualities for failure.

[lebkuchen]

26. Is there a betting pool going on May's enlistment rate?

The goal has to have missed its mark by more than 42% because that was April's missed goal. I'll go out on a limb and say that goal was missed in May by 55%.

PM me if I won. :)

[leftchick]

28. I am betting with you

but we will never know the real numbers from now on. They will be handled by the DoD and obfuscated for the masses.

[lebkuchen]

30. So I read, with amusement. Can the WH be more transparent?

How do you think the Joint Chiefs will appreciate being usurped by "Snowflake Man" of their ability to feed Americans the truth about something as basic as basic training quotas?

[0007]

24. You forgot that the French think we stink.......

The whole world has gotten a whiff of the stench that is coming from this country.

[lebkuchen]

25. Germany would have given the US the time of day re: Iraq

if the Germans had had any sense that the US military was culturally trained for the mission. It wasn't, not by a longshot. It wasn't trained because the mission was never designed to win hearts and minds, and the Germans knew it. The German govt. predicted a long time ago that the US invasion would fail as a result.

Interesting, though, that the US didn't learn from the French during Vietnam but that the French have learned from their own mistakes (Vietnam) and now can sit back and watch the US implode in its stubborn refusal to learn anything from anybody/anything, including a mirror.

[0007]

27. How true......But way back in the old days when Eisenhower was

president he listened to General Charles de Gaul and took his advise of not sending troops into Vietnam to protect the American mining companies. Kennedy sent only a few hundred and after his assassination in 63 the rest is history.

[lebkuchen]

29. Those initially sent in to Vietnam were called "advisors."

So much for advice~. Though I'm sure it's improved since the days of Vietnam.

:sarcasm:

[Cooley Hurd]

23. Our ONLY exit strategy (if one actually exists) is Iraqi self-defense...

Some may call it "cut-and-run," I call it pragmatism; the presence of US forces is no longer effective in maintaining security - we are a disruption. We shot our wad, fucked up badly, and now it's TIME TO GET THE FUCK OUT!

Thank you, Mr Rumsfeld, for the second Vietnam in our history.:thumbsdown: :grr:

[Massachusetts]

31. Deja Vu all over again

[quaoar]

32. Iraq is the oinly country in the world

where the entire military is in the witness protection program.

[Jacobin]

50. LMAO!!!!!!!!

Hadn't thought of it that way, but that kinda puts it in perspective.

Good call.

[DeepModem Mom]

33. kick

[truth2power]

34. Gee, it's all coming unraveled, isn't it, monkeyboy?

Boo-hoo :nopity:

[leftchick]

35. truly I don't think it is. This fits right in with the neo-freaks plans

Couple that with no Democrats in congress screaming about a timetable for exit or the horrors we are doing to the troops and Iaqis or for the LIES and manipulation of intelligence that got us in Iraq to begin with.

Sadly as long as there is no resistance to the present policy our troops will keep on dying along with thousands of Iraqis and the bases will keep on being built. The US is there for a very long time.

:(

[truth2power]

39. That the US govt really wants the chaos to continue

is mentioned frequently here. I try not to think about that because that's more obscene and evil than anything I can imagine.

Not that I don't think you're right. They're cabable of anything. :evilfrown:

[reprobate]

42. More obscene is that they pulled off 9/11 and didn't get caught! MIHOP

[truth2power]

44. No doubt in my mind that it was MIHOP...

but if you talk about it, people think you're some sort of whacko! :crazy: Sad, really.

[reprobate]

45. Consider this: If you believe the official story it's also a conspiracy.

In this case it's a conspiracy of arab fundamentalists to fly planes into american building. Still, a conspiracy.


History is replete with conspiracies. Politics is the art of conspiracies.

[Gyre]

36. The "our way or no way" mentality of chimpco

will guarantee civil war in Iraq. But at least they have their "freedom"!:)

[Supersedeas]

53. we instigated this anger...now YOU confront it for us.

[Straight Shooter]

37. FUBAR.

Bring our troops home. Send Rumsfeld, Cheney, Rice, et al., to the Green Zone in Iraq to assess the situation firsthand on a day-in/day-out basis. Let them talk to thousands of Iraqis, to hundreds of Iraqi policemen. Keep them in Iraq until the situation is under control.

You'll see how fast they get their asses back to the good ol' U.S. of A.

[Roland99]

38. "The council has no effect on anything because the Americans don't listen.

So much for a sovereign Iraq, eh?

[Supersedeas]

46. soveignty...this was a US led coup d'etat remember

[meganmonkey]

41. Interesting - the difference of headlines on this topic...

U.S. disbands Iraqi army unit

vs.

Iraqi troops refuse US training
(see post #12 - combined threads)

[Az_lefty]

47. WTF kind of Army are we building over there?

They won't even attend a training meeting because their afraid? There will never be a hand-off at this rate, we're going to be there forever.

[cthrumatrix]

48. commander BunnyPants said they "it's hard work pulling them together"

[Barrett808]

52. Don't forget the infiltration rate

Imagine you're the only "straight" member of your squad, and the rest are undercover insurgents...