India's tech industry is booming. More jobs going going gone

[schultzee]

In Cnn online today there is an article about how great India's tech industry is doing. People have no problem at all finding jobs. Of couse, they are benefiting at the expense of American workers. This is just sickening. I am going to have to disengage because I just can't take the stress of it anymore. We are watching an accident about to happen that they don't want us to prevent.

CNN.com - Jobs abound in India's tech sector - Oct. 5, 2003*

Schultzee

[asjr]

1. India

It certainly is sickening. All of GW's corporate buddies sending OUR jobs overseas and getting all the tax breaks. There must be an end to this. How many jobs will be left here? Very few I am afraid. We urge our children to go to college and get a degree, sometimes more than one degree. That is great, but what kind of jobs will be available to them? My son-in-law was out of work for over a year and has 2 degrees. He finally found work quite by accident in an area in which he had never worked. Thankfully it has worked out. I fear for my grandchildren.

[Nottingham]

2. Yep! India has turned into the New Silicon Valley

It will destroy this country worse than a :nuke:

[Democat]

3. They're paid 1/6 of U.S. wages, but it's great pay for the cost of living

Software workers with two years of experience are paid about 25,000 rupees ($545) a month, roughly one sixth of what their U.S. counterparts earn but a princely wage in a country with an average per capita income of $480 a year.

"Multinational company salaries are 50 to 60 percent higher at the entry-level and 30 percent higher at the middle management level when compared with Indian IT services companies," Bombay-based Kotak Securities Ltd said in a recent report.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/10/04/india.jobs.reut/index.html

[loudnclear]

15. Not only that, our good friends, the Israeli have entered into several

big communications deals with India. I guess they will be further entrenched in controlling our lives via yet another avenue.

[GAspnes]

33. doesn't Israel already handle all phone billing?

This just gets curiouser and curiouser.

[Karenina]

4. And just think about this...

If the U.S. and India ever get into a dust-up over foreign policy issues (something that cannot be ruled out with ALL of us so deep down in this rabbit... or is it ferret hole), WHO has their hands on the IT levers??? Hmmmmmm...? :shrug:

[schultzee]

10. That is a very very good point. The $$$ don't think byond the next quarter

and what you mention is a definite possibility. I am so damned depressed! My nephew, who I raised quit his chemical engineering job to take a software engineering job. Now this mess. How are our children going to take care of their families and themselves. And all of us are vunerable because the more unemployment the more wages are bid down, and they like to get rid of the 40 and 50 something crowd.
I wrote to all my Congresspeople and the ABC administration today.

[HereSince1628]

5. With luck job migration for the middle class will reorient the DLC

(they gave up on the working class) and its orientation to global trade.


Export Products Not Jobs

[ninkasi]

6. Wonder if the CEOs of the companies

who are sending jobs overseas would consider accepting the same salary and benefits of their counterparts in foreign countries? I believe there should be some tax penalty applied to these companies; why give them perks for shipping jobs overseas? It hardly seems...patriotic, given the fact that Whistle Ass runs around waving the American flag at every opportunity, and any dissent is loudly labeled unpatriotic.

[Democat]

7. That could start a trade war

If you punish companies who use outsourced labor, then other countries will punish U.S. companies and products being exported.

That's a big part of the problem. Any move you make to try to improve things has potential consequences that could make things worse.

It is a very hard issue to find a solution for.

[Pale_Rider]

9. What about tax cuts ...

... for those US companies that have a significant workforce of qualified US citizens and residents? Let's make it an economically viable alternative. Some of those tax cuts might convince US companies to move their offshore profits back to the US.

[trogdor]

29. I made that point the other day on another board.

The carrot-and-stick approach. Tax breaks for those who play by the rules, sanctions for those who do not. It can work.

Bottom line: It's one thing to compete on quality, another entirely to compete on price. It is ridiculous, and disastrous for our economy, to expect US labor to compete with the Third World.

[ninkasi]

11. I agree it's a hard issue

but we need to come up with some solutions, before our economy is wreaked and we become a 3rd world country, ourselves. Our current practice of enriching the already rich, and impovrishing everybody else isn't working.

Granted, we don't want trade wars. Maybe the solution is to roll back the tax breaks on the richest, and at least keep the country from going bankrupt. However, the more jobs at decent salaries that are lost, and the more people become out of work, the country we'll be left with is not the one we want to save, anyway.

[mhr]

21. Simple Solutions

Here they are:


Outlaw overseas job outsourcing,

Elimination of all L-1 and H-1b visas,

Promote "hire them here," and "make it here" policies,

Renegotiate NAFTA and WTO accords to promote Fair Trade vs Free Trade.


The first three could be done immediately. The last one will take years.

Collectively, they would solve the problem.

[Pale_Rider]

8. Let outsource CEOs ...

... of which I'm all in favor of doing. I don't believe that it will so hard to find better qualified CEOs who will work for less money in overseas locations!

[schultzee]

12. They are creating an international aristocracy and soon an internatioal

peasantry. I just tried to speak to the freeper who is building a very expensive house next to my "average for the county price" house, and we discussed this. He feels it will turn around in 4 years. I tried to explain that the tax cuts would not help because the manufacturing base is not here anymore and now the white collar jobs are leaving. He is all for the tax cut he got. It was probably very large. Greed is glorious and it started with Reagan. And denial is so easy.
I heard something really interesting yesterday, Republicans think that there is limited wealth and thus they must take as much as they can to get ahead of the game, but Democrats think that there is enough if we share and conserve. That seems quite accurate.

[mkregel]

37. OMG...That sounds like a perfect Bumper Sticker

"Outsource CEO's!"

[kcwayne]

13. The State of Indiana pulled a real bone headed move

The Department of Workforce Development, whose mission is to handle worker's unemployment claims, and "find work for unemployed Hoosiers" got 40 million of federal money to upgrade their data processing systems.

And what did they do? They gave the contract to a firm from India.
They are doing a great job for Calcutta. I'd like to outsource them to India since they aren't doing squat for the people of Indiana.

[Nottingham]

19. Yes and our social security numbers are going over to India

We have NO Security in this country!

:bounce:

[loudnclear]

14. You heard it from me first!

the services provided are very shoddy. Last week I was connected to an Indian service for a major computer company. Besides the difficulty in understanding mutual speech, the information that I was given was erroneous. I finally figured out most of the problem myself but I had to put in a service call to the software co. The problem had nothing to do with software but the service person for the software company (a small company here in the US) explained the hardware problems. I commented that the hardware service had connected me to an overseas tech service and explained my problems. The service person told me that most of the large computer and tech firms were outsourcing their tech services to various places outside the US...India is not the only place. He also told me that he had recieved many calls from others who could not get their hardware problems resolved and thought that the problem was with their software. To a person, they all complained about the outsourced service. The service tech told me that some companies that had spent huge bucks outsourcing these services were planning on spending more money to bring many of the services back but that they were quietly doing this. The good ole American way.

[srpantalonas]

16. Sign the Petition: Stop L-1, H-1B visa abuse...offshoring

http://www.crystleforsenate.com/visa.html

[mhr]

22. Done!

eom

[srpantalonas]

26. Petition: we have 317 signatures--need 1000 by end of week!

http://www.crystleforsenate.com/visa.html

[mitchum]

38. make that 318

[srpantalonas]

39. Up to 351! Please sign, get us to 1000 this week...

http://www.crystleforsenate.com/visa

[NashVegas]

17. So Much for Our "Intellectual Assets" in a Specialized Economy

Even last year, globalists were talking about how we'd all go to specialied economies, with intellectual assets being the main US export.

I guess the elite didn't stop to think the brown people weren't as dumb as they (the elite) thought they were.

So, what's Plan B, oh masters of the universe?

[2cents]

23. Speaking of Plan B

What's their Plan B if India and Pakistan get it on.

[Logansquare]

18. This is going to bite U.S. companies on the ass

Especially when these programmers in India realize that they can make a lot more money in their own startups and using what by U.S. law would be considered the company's intellectual property. And their former masters won't be able to do a thing about it.

[okieinpain]

24. yep, your right. a few years back a company I worked for

farmed out their IT dept., only lasted a couple of months, ceo had computer problems and the dispatcher told him she could not get anyone out until the next day. my manager got an earful, happened again a couple of months later, next thing you know, were hiring an IT dept back.

[ramapo]

30. Already happened

Indians here on H1b visas as programmers have been returning home to work on offshore projects. They're in demand.

We've provided great experience to go with the solid tech university training provided in India.

[Selwynn]

20. This is absolutely true - true at my company (nt)

[mhr]

25. Article Link

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/10/04/india.jobs.reut/index.html

[rallykid]

27. That's great, but

That's great, but what about jobs for all of the U.S. workers that are without work? Why don't we just ship all of our jobs overseas and we can all sit here, do nothing, go broke and starve to death.

[newyawker99]

28. Hi rallykid!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[chiburb]

31. Did anyone read Krugman today?

Snip:

Second, lump-of-labor thinking — and the policy paralysis it encourages — feeds protectionism. If the public no longer believes that the economy can create new jobs, it will demand that we protect old jobs from new competitors in China and elsewhere. Economists can explain until they are blue in the face why limiting exports from developing countries would be a bad idea — why keeping our markets open to new producers is in America's interest both economically and diplomatically. But theoretical arguments for free trade will count for little if the real-world experience of jobs lost to Chinese competition can't be offset by a credible promise that new jobs will be created to replace them.

History seems to be repeating itself: a similar rush to blame foreigners for U.S. problems happened during Bush I's jobless recovery (which looked like a hiring boom compared with recent experience). Remember the president's literally nauseating trip to Japan in the company of auto executives? But if the early 1990's flirtation with protectionism had the feeling of farce, today's employment stagnation — and the protectionist talk now emanating from both parties — has the makings of tragedy. If we don't get some real job creation soon, the politics of jobs may become dangerously self-destructive.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/07/opinion/07KRUG.html

(It seems to me that NOTHING is as simplistic as some of the views expressed in this thread, and I encourage everyone to read the whole column before blaming anyone but Bushco for our jobs mess. Krugman warns the left AND the right to keep the focus...)

[FormerOstrich]

32. More significant than our lawmakers think.....

It’s going to take a catastrophe to stop the trend. Hopefully, it’s a small one.

Let’s face it everything you want to know about a company and it’s customers resides in their IT infrastructure most often in the code itself. As the admin has been stirring the fear factor with the “hackers” over the internet the fact is; “Why hack?” Why not join an off-shore development company and embed your nefarious modules into the installation. “Who’s checking?”. Easy answer: “No one”

The countries we are outsourcing to are not bound by our privacy laws or intellectual property laws. We aren’t auditing what may be written into the code. The countries we are exporting to are political hotspots. It’s only natural with the degree of outsourcing we have an Economic interest to protect them…thus further defense dollars for the American Tax Payer to cover the butts of private corporations; What do you think the Indian – US exercises off China’s border are all about.
JOINT STATEMENT ON U.S.-INDIA DEFENSE POLICY GROUP
The U.S.– India Defense Policy Group (DPG) met Aug. 6-7, 2003 in Washington, D.C. Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Douglas Feith hosted the meeting and Defence Secretary Ajay Prasad led the Indian delegation.
….snip
The past year’s accomplishments include:
• Combined special forces counterinsurgency exercise in Northeast India;
• Combined Air Force exercise in Alaska;
• Complex naval exercises on the East Coast of India;
• Delivery of "Firefinder" radars to India;
• Senior-level missile defense talks; and
• Conclusion of a master information exchange agreement to facilitate cooperation in research and development of defense technologies
….snip
The two sides agreed to establish a high-level dialogue on defense technology security issues.
http://www.defenselink.mil/releases/2003/nr20030808-0331.html

US special forces join Indians on Ladakh mountains

NEW DELHI, SEPTEMBER 5, 2003: Indo-US military cooperation set out on a new road today when Indian and US Special Forces flew into Leh for joint exercises not far from the Chinese border.
While the Army described the exercises as ‘‘routine,’’ sources say this was the first time that US military personnel had landed in Jammu and Kashmir — still a ‘‘disputed area’’ for Washington — to conduct exercises in high altitude, mountainous terrain.
…snip
A complement of troops from the US Special Operations Command were airlifted from Air Force Station, Agra to begin the exercises in Leh with their Indian counterparts.
Defence minister George Fernandes, while maintaining that the exercises were routine, denied that the joint military exercises were being conducted for political reasons. ‘‘In the past, we have held such exercises with some Asian countries. We have also done it with European countries. Now we are doing it with the US. Such exercises are carried out so that countries get to know the areas of strength and weaknesses of its military. There is no political reason for such exercises,’’ he said.

Meanwhile here is some food for thought:
Buggy software on the rise
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33097.html
Outsourcing: Does it reward theft
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/32730.html

and to really stir things up…I’m planning on starting a thread in GD in the next week or so to discuss the following study. For the Microsoft bashers: I am convinced there is a force at work to squeeze out the little guys from the market. There are those that believe that Microsoft blocks competition and stifles creativity, entrepreneur , etc etc. My take on it is that Microsoft has and does enable many small time players in the market and the big guys do not like that…they want it all. I’ll save it for the thread but my contention is that they want the market to return to a handful of wealthy corporations. My thought is thier tactics are working and many are unwittingly helping them along.
Microsoft: a threat to global IT and job security?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/33082.html

a link to the study is at the bottom of the article….I recommend reading it.

[gajs]

34. America On Line has moved it's tech support to India

I was upset that when i called AOL for tech support I was told that the tech support has been moved to India and South Africa.
Looking for another provider and going to dump AOL .

[Vis Numar]

35. People are just now waking up to what is happening

This is a top Democratic Party issue.

[realFedUp]

36. I guess they hope Pakistan doesn't nuke them...

Wouldn't seem that India is the most stable country
these days with the kinds of neighbors they have.