Jailed baby killer fuels debate on abortion after rape

[kskiska]

Moments after giving birth in secret in her bathroom, Romina Tejerina stabbed to death the baby in whose face she says she "saw the man who raped her".

The 21-year-old, who faces life imprisonment, has become a symbol for Argentina's feminist movement, which says her plight is common among poor, young women who suffer sexual abuse.

"I hope the judges see that Romina is just the visible face of all the other Rominas in this country and in the world," said her sister, Mirta Tejerina. "It is terrible how women are stigmatised and maltreated just for being a victim."

The case has fuelled the debate over abortion in Argentina, where terminations are only allowed in rape cases if the woman is deemed insane. Ms Tejerina did not report the rape and tried unsuccessfully to end the pregnancy herself.

more…
http://www.guardian.co.uk/argentina/story/0,11439,1499917,00.html

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. So if you are raped in Argentina,

you have to be insane to get an abortion? Do you have to be insane BEFORE the rape or can the rape make you insane?

What an insane policy.

[BrklynLiberal]

3. Excellent question!

[AndyTiedye]

8. If You ARE Insane, and Get Raped in Florida...

...the state will most likely attempt to assert "parental" rights
to prevent you from having an abortion.

[The Icon Painter]

10. Catch 22

Do any of you others see a parallel between this and Heller's novel?

[meganmonkey]

13. Indeed - one of my favorite books

If you are crazy, you can't fly the mission. But if you are sane enough to KNOW that you're crazy, you are too sane NOT to fly the mission. But who the hell would want to fly the mission unless they were crazy?!

:crazy:

[merwin]

2. And this is where Commander Cuckoo Bananas wants to take our country.

[Erika]

4. Abortion should be a right and individual decision

See the type of government Bush/Falwell/theocrats would force down our throats in the name of "culture of life".

[beam me up scottie]

5. This is really heartening:

"One of the groups supporting Ms Tejerina is Catholics for the Right to Decide. " Three times a victim: of the rape, of the law that does not give her access to an abortion and being judged and imprisoned," a spokeswoman said."

Does anyone know anything about this group?

[Merope215]

22. They look wonderful.

Here's a couple of links from their sites.

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/lowbandwidth/abortionfr.htm
about having an abortion

and

http://www.catholicsforchoice.org/lowbandwidth/engmexico.html
about the social aspects of their work in Mexico. Almost makes me proud to be a Catholic again, to know that there are people like this out there. I think I might stop by their office tomorrow and thank them in person.

[beam me up scottie]

26. You know what?

I'm an atheist but you can thank them for me too.
Thank them for speaking up for all of the women who have been suffering in silence for so long.
Thank them for using religion to actually help women instead of oppress them.
And thank them for standing beside this woman who was abandoned and condemned by her own government and church.

Thank you, Merope215, for the links.

[Merope215]

28. I certainly will, if I get down there

The people who are there when everyone else has yelled "Sinner!" or "Criminal!" and run away are the ones who would be made saints for real if the Church was the way it should be. It's one of the most life-affirming websites I've ever run across - it's so positive and so centered on finding your own path and healing your own self without needing people to tell you how bad you've been and how evil you are and how much the little blastocyst meant to Jesus. It's wonderful that they're helping this poor woman, too, and using, as you said, religion to help women instead of oppress them. I'm really excited about this group, and I think we will hear good things from them in years to come.

Peace to you and yours!

[Eloriel]

6. This is the kind of story / the kind of policy that makes absolutely

clear the misogynism behind anti-abortion policies. Doesn't it? I don't know how anyone could fail to see that. Just a way to control women. Of course, I rather doubt that that's a CONSCIOUS thought process on the part of the bastards who come up with this kind of shit, but the subconscious instincts work just as well.

[ngGale]

7. We are headed down this path...

it's not that far away anymore. :scared:

[okieinpain]

17. yes, we are. sad as that is.

[WildClarySage]

9. Anyone who says that abortion should only be legal in cases of

rape or molestation is basically saying that pregnancy is a just punishment for the sin of sex. Babies are wonderful if you are ready to be parents but they should never be considered punishment. This unfortunate attitude explains a lot of child abuse in this country. So much for family values.

[livinginphotographs]

47. Anyone who says abortion should only be legal in cases of

rape or molestation is a hypocrite. If it's "murder," then it's murder if the baby was produced by consenual sex or if it was produced by a rape.

Disclaimer: I'm 100% pro-choice. I'm just pointing out the utter hypocrisy of someone who wants to moderate their position to get elected by calling it murder in one instance but allowing it in another.

[CTyankee]

11. Before Roe, women in CT had to be examined by psychiatrists

who would testify that carrying the pregnancy to term would endanger their mental health. I have a friend, now elderly, who underwent this kind of grilling back in the 60s. She could not afford, nor could she withstand the pressures of raising a fourth child.

[BlueIris]

12. Wow, I was really scared to click on this thread. Thank goodness

DU is filled with some many reasonable posters. I was really quite terrified I would be the only one posting about the idea that's it's really disgusting that anyone feels we should be debating about anything except preventing obstruction to abortion rights, but thankfully, the misogynist sickies on this site haven't found this discussion yet.

[RedCloud]

14. Romina Tejerina stabbed to death the baby

At that late point that should not have happened. Killing a newborn is not something I defend. I hope I am not the only one here.

[Roaming]

15. You're not alone here; this is sickening; this baby was innocent

but it seems the woman is wanting to make this a case of late-term abortion.

[neohippie]

19. I agree with you that it is never okay

but, this situation shouldn't have been allowed to happen. She clearly had no choices available to her that she could live with and acted insanely, and now she has to live with that too...

There is no reason that we can't stop treating everyone like criminals, and start treating them like people. We need to focus on human beings and their mental, physical and spiritual or cosmic health, and not so much in a religous sense but more in a sense of understanding your relationship with your family, community and planet.

Once we learn to stop trying to modify human behavior with legislation and punishment and learn to teach people how to reach their potential we might finally live up to our claim of living in a civilization. Even the best dog trainers know that you don't modify behavior with punishment but with reward.

[progressivebydesign]

20. I can't fathom how she could not have qualified as insane..

.. obviously, regardless of the crime against you, a sane person would not be able to stab a living being in the face that way. Sad, sick story all the way around.

[girl gone mad]

23. You're not the only one.

This case illustrates why abortion needs to be kept legal and safe.

If abortion is outlawed in this country, we could expect to see a rise in the number of infant deaths as well as a rise in the number of pregnant girls doing harm to themselves in botched abotion attempts.

[Megahurtz]

31. I totally agree.

It's going to become a very sad, sad situation if abortion is outlawed in this country.:(

[Chovexani]

33. Coat Hanger Nation

Rich women will just go "see an Aunt" in Canada or Europe, and have their abortions just like they did before Roe v. Wade.

Meanwhile poor and working class women (there will no longer be a middle class) are off to the back alleys with the coat hangers. It's already happening: look at the case in Florida.

The Reich Wingers don't really need to make abortion illegal in this country. The number of doctors who are trained in abortion procedures continues to drop every year (who wants to get shot by a woman-hating terrorist?). In many towns there is no place for a woman to exercise her right to choose an abortion. In places that are, the woman-hating terrorists make her fear for her life. Who wants to be another statistic in a clinic bombing? Not to mention the fact that for many women, abortion is a cost-prohibitive procedure (it's not cheap! especially if you are young and have no support system, like many of the women I knew from my clinic-escorting days).

It is a sad, sad state of affairs. There is nothing short of a War on Women being waged in America today, fought with ignorance and fear, and unfortunately the other side seems to be winning.

So pessimistic today...:(

[beam me up scottie]

37. War on Women. Yes that is exactly what it is.

Can somebody tell me

WHY can't abortions be done in hospitals like EVERY other legal procedure?

WHY should women be forced to go to clinics that are targeted by terrorists?

WHY should the medical staff who help women be forced to risk their lives by working in a dangerous location that is easily targeted by terrorists? Where they can be followed home and their families put in danger?

WHY should our tax dollars not fund family planning for poor women?

WHY should only women who can afford abortion be able to have the procedure done?

WHY are we still fighting for (and losing) our reproductive freedom?

Can anybody tell me WHY?

[rebecca_herman]

40. However

I am not going to defend killing a newborn either, however I do believe there is a strong chance this woman went insane during the pregnancy as she was forced to relive the memories of her rape, and that killing the baby was done out of insanity. She needs treatment in a mental hospital, not prison time.

[Judi Lynn]

16. A lot of people don't seem to get the picture that people DON'T WANT to be

raped. It's more than just a preference. Rape is a filthy insult of the most vicious order. Often the threat of horrendous physical damage, future suffering, or even murder accompanies it, in addition to the grotesque disrespect.

This woman responded after the fact to the original act. She was unable to repress her rage. I would imagine it was beyond her control, obviously.

She should have had access to abortion as soon as possible.

It should be easy for everyone to see that if this woman had been able to rein in her spiralling anger, she still would have never been able to be the watchful, protective, caring parent a child needs. I would think this would apply to ALL rape victems.

Forcing a woman to support and nurture a child after an act of violent hatred and highest disprespect is not sane. Abortion is absolutely in order.

Life with TWO committed parents is rough enough for children. Life with a woman wounded spiritually, psychologically, and devastated economically and socially is not a future a child could well survive, wouldn't you think? There are too many children thrown into life with no resources, and no real, personal guardian.

Time for right-wing twists to butt out of other people's lives, and start being responsible for their own. No reason to have a bunch of deviants trying to horn into the private lives of women through incessant attempts to criminalize their struggle for self-defense.

[Merope215]

21. .

:yourock:

If I could nominate just your post, I would.

[Judi Lynn]

27. Thank you, Merope215. I wasn't sure it was clear enough. You're kind. n/t

[Megahurtz]

32. Right On!

"Time for right-wing twists to butt out of other people's lives, and start being responsible for their own........"

Kick!:kick:

[Coventina]

18. She was wrong to kill the baby, but should be charged with

something less than murder.

Manslaughter maybe?

Infanticide is the ugly underbelly of banning abortions and birth control.

[Proud liberal Kat]

24. I am very pro-choice but...

I can't only put forth the side of the issue that I think abortion should have been available for this woman or my disgust at the man who raped her. She stabbed to death a newborn infant, that is pretty sick, horrible situation which she should have never been placed in, but does not excuse the horrible way she killed the infant.

[Judi Lynn]

25. Maybe you would point out the post which condones killing the baybee.n/t

[Proud liberal Kat]

29. I think not even mentioning the murder of the baby....

by stabbing the baby repeatedly in the face is a form of condoning. It totally devalues how the child was murdered in favor of the issue. I am very pro-life, I have been raped, I feel for the woman up until the point she stabbed her baby to death upon birth in the face. When that isn't even mentioned by the majority of posters and the entire focus is on the political agenda, well it bothers me.
Kathy

[Chovexani]

30. Of course it's terrible

Does it really need to be said? :eyes:

The fact is, this situation would never have come about had this poor woman's government not engaged in the sort of paternalistic nonsense that drove her to this desperation, and drove her to take her rage out on her child.

If this woman is a murderer--and I believe she is, she took an innocent life--then the Argentine government should be charged as an accessory.

[Xithras]

34. It didn't "drive her" to that.

There are orphanages in Argentina. There are police stations in Argentina. There are churches and convents in Argentina. There are fire stations in Argentina.

It's understandable that desperation and hate could have driven her to despise the child, but there is zero excuse for murder. Yes, Argentine society certainly holds some responsibility for her hatred, but she alone bears responsibility for how she reacted to it. She could have dropped the baby off and walked away from it at ANY of the places I listed above and been just as rid of it, but she instead CHOSE to commit murder. Her rage is understandable, her response is not.

In a just society, there is only one valid reason for taking another persons life, and that reason is self defense. Since no person could reasonably argue that the womans life was threatened by the child, she is no different than any other murderer.

[CAcyclist]

36. If Society Does Not Allow Her To Have An Abortion

Then Society is complicit in setting up the conditions that led to this murder.

Yes, she should be charged, but situations like this will continue to happen until society rectifies its own wrongs. It is not enough to be sanctimonious and say this woman simply shouldn't have done this.

I don't think anyone here is saying this woman shouldn't bear responsibility; just that we have to look at what can be done to prevent future incidents.

I was raped, although it was a date rape and not traumatic - I got pregnant and I remember well wanting KILL KILL KILL the tumor growing in me. Thank God I had the opportunity to get an abortion.

[amazona]

39. murder? likely she had post partum depression

A significant proportion of women who have wanted babies became irrationally depressed and are at risk of harming themselves or their babies. The changes in the hormones that occur with pregnancy and giving birth are real. I'm guessing the woman is not guilty of any crime but was instead temporarily insane. The stress of the rape, the forced pregnancy, the psychotic way she snapped...I doubt the woman is guilty of a crime. I think it is a tragedy for her and the child what happened but doubt she was in position to control it. This is a tragic death but it is not a murder in my book.

Compare it to deaths where mothers smother the newborns or throw them in garbage cans. They are making some attempt to hide the crime and showing some awareness that they know they are doing wrong. This woman seemed to have just undergone a terrible psychotic snap.

The conservation movement is a breeding ground of communists
and other subversives. We intend to clean them out,
even if it means rounding up every birdwatcher in the country.
--John Mitchell, US Attorney General 1969-72

[rebecca_herman]

41. It sounds to me like she was beyond that

From reading the article I think there is a very good chance that the woman was so traumatized by the pregnancy that she had become insane. I think her mental state was so bad she was unable to think logically. I doubt they have much sympathy for the mentally ill who commit crimes in Argentina since half the states here don't even. If she is mentally ill she needs treatment in a mental hospital, not jail time.

[beam me up scottie]

38. Where does it say the baby

was stabbed in the face?
And why does it matter?
The baby would still be dead no matter how she killed it.
Would you have sympathy for her if she ran over it with a car?
Would you have sympathy if they didn't discuss the method of killing?
My sympathy for her has no conditions or limitations.
I'm sorry yours does.

[Proud liberal Kat]

42. You're right

I misread the sentence where it says she stabbed the baby in whose face she saw the rapist, only read the article once and just jumbled the sentence in my head.

Don't be sorry for me, I wouldn't say you have more sympathy necessarily than I do, I was just disturbed with the lack of sympathy or mention of the baby. The only way our sympathy levels would be different is if you have no feelings attached to her killing the baby in relation to her whatsoever. I have total sympathy for her situation up until the point she killed another human being. I hope she can get help and treatment if it was a true psychotic break/PPD.

The method of killing the baby yes does make a difference because some ways of dying are more painful and scary and some are more merciful and peaceful. So yes it matters how the baby died to me.

[beam me up scottie]

43. I can respect that.

When I first read the report, I was horrified and shocked.
It is a terrible tragedy and I cannot begin to imagine how hard it must be for the woman's family.
But I did think of the woman first. The baby is dead, it died a horrible death and yes, it hurts to think about it.
But this did not need to happen and since I have been a pro-choice activist for so long, that's how I look at it.
I see her act of as a symptom of how sick she was and probably still is.
She most definitely was insane.
Sane women do not do this.
Women are more likely to stay sane when they have choices.
I see this as a symptom of how sick society was and still is.
And I see how much more work needs to be done to get people to realize that we as a society cannot ever be healthy as long as women do not have choices.
This woman will have to live with this for the rest of her life, whether she is imprisoned or not. That will be her fate. And I have complete sympathy for her because remembering it will be worse than any prison sentence could ever be.
And
because
this
did
not
have
to
happen
to
her
or
to
any
other
victim.

[Proud liberal Kat]

44. I like your signature N/T

[beam me up scottie]

45. Thanks.

I can be a little intense sometimes, comes from years of crying.

[Zorra]

35. Dang. From the headline, I thought they finally jailed Bu*h. Rats. n/t

[beam me up scottie]

46. You know, I like the Guardian, it's

on my short list of news sites but this fucking headline reeks of
tabloid-style trash journalism.
I'm writing a letter.
I expected better from them.