Horrors of war in Iraq continue to haunt U.S. Marine corporal

[Barrett808]

Horrors of war in Iraq continue to haunt U.S. Marine corporal
By Ravi Nessman, The Associated Press

As his new bride, Amanda, and her friends chuckle at stories over dinner, Jack Self stares in silence. He doesn't laugh much anymore.

...

That first deployment Self now calls "Disneyland.' His second stint in Iraq, fighting the deadly, amorphous Sunni insurgency, that was "Vietnam.'

...

The Marines watched in silence, waiting for the fire to detonate any explosives or ammunition inside the car. Nothing, not even the sound of bullets cooking off, interrupted the faint notes of Johnny Cash's "Live From Folsom Prison' playing on the speakers in Self's turret.

The three people in the car were almost definitely civilians, and they were dead.

Still behind the gun, Self looked down at me, standing in the road, and let out an angry, defensive yell: "Yeah, I'm a monster!'

(more)

http://www.sbsun.com/Stories/0,1413,208~12588~2906180,00.html

[ElectroPrincess]

1. He's one of many more to come ... they need our support ... our patience

and compassion. Many of these men and women will suffer both physically and mentally from the horrors of combat. I hope we will be able to support these folks much more soundly than we did the returning Vietnam Veterans. I will do my part.

[snooper2]

2. Thanks for posting

hell of a story to read...

[Supersedeas]

9. Yep....and support to the troops must continue b/c of stories like this

one...as well as opposition to this Administration's wasteful war.

[Wright Patman]

3. Being a war criminal

must be a bitch for those with consciences. It's good he realizes he's a monster. Doesn't do the dead civilians any good, though.

For purposes of the Nuremberg precedent, anyone who participates in a preemptive "preventive" war such as this IS a war criminal.

And the man who ordered them into this operation is a 21st century version of Hitler, on an admittedly smaller scale (so far).

[TahitiNut]

5. I've heard that before.

:eyes:

[gratuitous]

10. Maybe they had the right idea in South Africa

The Truth and Reconciliation Commission, which Desmond Tutu served on (and I recommend his book about it, "No Future Without Forgiveness") held anyone blameless if they came forward and confessed to the atrocities they had committed while facing their victims or their victims' survivors. Reading his book, Tutu explains that it was an incredibly brutal process that went on day after day for months, but when it was finally over, so many wounds had been healed, and victims and victimizers alike were able to move forward to build a new society post-apartheid.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

12. For a guy like Self, there aren't many choices....

1. You either fire your weapon when ordered, or face a possible court-martial.

2. You either fire your weapon when fired upon, or get killed or wounded yourself, and/or watch your friends get killed or wounded.

3. Desert, and attempt to go somewhere that will allow you to live in peace;

4. Shoot yourself in some non-vital area of the body and hope that such an act will get you a discharge of some sort;

5. Commit suicide.

As far as your comment that "anyone who participates in a preemptive 'preventive' war such as this IS a war criminal", I don't recall very many, if any, of the rank-and-file that were tried at Nuremberg. If I recall correctly, only the surviving Nazi military and civilian leaders were tried as war criminals.

FYI: There are quite a few DUers that served in combat in Vietnam and other places, as well as quite a few others that have been in the military. IMHO, rhetoric like yours does very little to add to the conversation in a thread like this.

[Wright Patman]

13. 'Just following orders'

It will be the last words on the lips of those ending the world as we know it in a nuclear holocaust.

I have a lot more sympathy for the reluctant draftees of the Vietnam era than I do for the gung-ho volunteers of the "war on Planet Earth" aka "war on terra" being waged by the Chimperor.

[TahitiNut]

16. For purposes of the Nuremberg precedent ...

Unless and until those who gave an "illegal order" are prosecuted and convicted and the order is found to be illegal, then following such orders cannot, in equity and conscience, be prosecutable.

People who're so eager to cite the "Nuremberg precedent" seem to conveniently forget that the leadership was prosecuted, found guilty, and condemned to punishments equal to or greater than those who followed those orders. Only when we do the same can I, in conscience, express condemnation of those who've implemented those orders.

[TahitiNut]

4. "You can't talk about it to someone who hasn't been over there."

"You can't talk about it to someone who hasn't been over there. You're always explaining yourself."

Ain't THAT the truth!! Thirty-five years later, it's still the truth.

[Rose Siding]

7. Still...

I'm always appreciative when you do. -explain things about it, I mean.

[saigon68]

11. These are War Crimes committed by Rustics

Who after draping themselves in the flag, are urged on by the Braying Crowds of NeoCons.

Wait till this little troopie gets his ass kicked by the cops, when his drinking and PTSD turn to rage and he barricades himself in his miommy's closet and won't come out.

[TahitiNut]

15. Well, I can't make that judgment by reading the article.

I've known too many good (and deeply injured) guys who might've fit that article 35 years ago. I'd have to know him better ... and find out about his enabling beliefs.

[saigon68]

24. I knew a few guys who did this

They ended it by "capping themselves"

[Rose Siding]

6. GWB: "I'm sleeping pretty good ....I've got peace of mind"

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/315758p-270183c.html

[NuttyFluffers]

22. that comment still guts me...

in my universe of justice the nightmares of 100,000 american troups in iraq, the millions in iraq, and all the people in afghanistan, troup or civilian, would haunt this man's dreams. and haunt his waking hours too. may the specters of the horrors that he is fully responsible never give him a moments rest. that would be justice.

[Barrett808]

8. This guy needs some serious PTSD treatment n/t

[killbotfactory]

14. Have the freepers mocked him yet?

Maybe they should organize spitting protests for all those cowards in the military who are haunted by the horrors of war.

[UncleSepp]

23. They don't need to - it's happening here in earlier posts

[Daphne08]

17. I'm old. This story reminds me of Vietnam vets who returned

home.

They can reframe it anyway they like, but the longer this debacle continues, the more it will look like Vietnam as far as our soldiers are concerned. :cry:

[TahitiNut]

18. His unit is scheduled to return to Iraq in September.

God help him and any Iraqis who trigger him. The Marine Corps is nucking futs to send these guys back into that nightmare.

[roguevalley]

19. My boy was in Bosnia. The hardest thing he told me was when he

told his dad he had to shoot people. He was sorry in his heart in a way I can't describe. He also felt he disappointed his father because his dad taught him to love people and never to hurt them. War is hell, my friends and we haven't even seen the beginning of it. Bless this boy and all the others. Bless the Iraqis. God help us all.

[bobbieinok]

20. a black student was in Gulf War I and disabled; his 2 sons have been

in Iraq.......he wouldn't talk about his experiences except to say it was really hard.......he said his first son who came home told his parents it was very hard......the father said he could see how his son had been changed

why did they enlist? as blacks it was/is their way up, or so they saw it

father, disabled vet with 4 kids, doesn't have a lot of money to send kids to college, etc.......

[babylonsister]

21. OMG, how utterly tragic. nt

[EC]

25. They're training a whole new breed of Mercenaries

I wonder just how many will turn so mean that they cannot handle regular society and end up looking for wars to join... I knew one from Vietnam, couldn't handle everyday life without going bonkers, ended up somewhere in South America enrolled in another war as a Mercenary...

[ConsAreLiars]

26. "Self"

He is any of us. The best of any of us. He kept his conscience and his soul in that moment. But the burden will be hard to bear. He needs us all to understand and care.