Life sentence given for fetuses' deaths

[Judi Lynn]

June 6, 2005, 10:42PM

Life sentence given for fetuses' deaths
Boyfriend found guilty under new fetal protection law
Associated Press

LUFKIN - An East Texas man accused of causing his teenage girlfriend to miscarry twins by stepping on her stomach was convicted Monday of two counts of capital murder.

Gerardo Flores, 19, who was prosecuted under the state's new fetal protection law, received an automatic life sentence.

Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy, but the 17-year-old can't be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who killed the twins.

The jury reached a verdict after deliberating four hours. Since prosecutors declined to seek the death penalty in the case, Flores received the automatic life sentence, Assistant District Attorney Art Bauereiss said. The facts were unusual, but the evidence supported a guilty finding, Bauereiss told The Lufkin Daily News.
(snip/...)

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/metropolitan/3214035

[Demit]

1. Gack. Charming couple!

If that isn't a perfect example of why contraception should be readily available, if not promoted, I don't know what is.

[MichiDem]

2. This is a stupid comment:

"The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who killed the twins."

Does anyone believe that she could punch herself hard enough to hurt the fetuses?

[JNelson6563]

3. But in the bible

if the woman lives only a few shekels are due. :shrug:

Julie

[izzie]

4. What is this?

Are we really going nuts. The two people are really nuts but the law seems crazy also.

[BlueIris]

5. My first reaction, too.

Until I see more information from a better reporter, I'm going to allow my brain to remain shut off. Holy shit.

[BlueEyedSon]

6. Abortion should be rare, legal, cheap and unstigmatized.....

Granted, this couple sound pretty stupid, but now the guy is a criminal.

[sendero]

7. I believe in reproductive rights...

... but you have to admit, 4 months is getting out there.

At some point in the term, and I don't know where it is, abortion should not be an option.

What is the law currently, is it state by state? How long can one carry a fetus and still get a legal abortion?

[roseBudd]

8. abortion is not free, the woman probably did not have health insurance

She was 1 month past her first trimester

[kristndem]

9. This is what it was like

before legal abortions. And what it will be like if the anti- abortion zealots get their way.
Many a young girl died or was irreparably harmed from backroom & coat hanger abortions.

[Freedom_from_Chains]

39. That's what the fundies refer to as the "Good Old Days." n/t

[nolabels]

10. How about a little contraception and SEX Education

For goodness sakes, this puritanical view of how the world should run will never work.
By the very nature of how the world functions in most any realm shows anything pure is an abomination in it's self

[Centered]

14. yea... right

All the education in the world isn't going to make a teenage boy wear a condom... and the pressure at that age for younger women isn't going to help them stand up for their own protection either.

Most boys wont do it... and they know that eventually the girl will breakdown and give in... or they will dump her and find someone who will. For boys the pressure is to have sex... I think for girls the pressure was not really sex... but just to have a boyfriend.

Yes there are probably a few exceptions to the rule... but remember back to when you were in Jr High or High school... the pressure is terrible to do it.

Sometimes I wonder if education is just about anti-pregnancy and not enough emphasis on anti-disease. I've heard terrible "statistics" about younger women having more anal sex so they can stay "Technical virgins" and also not get pregnant.

Are there any sex educators here who can post their perspective? What are the reactions in the classrooms? Do (pre) teenagers take this education seriously? I was very naive when I went to the "classes" and I can't really say they made much of an impression... but that's me and I'm unique.

I would really like to be wrong... I really really would.

[nolabels]

21. More thinking of the Puritanical or male control view

Condoms are more for the protection of the male than to prevent pregnancies. They are a good thing for both sides, but in failure of their use and application there is wide verity of methods to prevent unwanted pregnancies.

The taboo on birth control devices and restrictions to access to them by only prescription is more to appease the squeamish religious fundamentalism than giving safety to the user. A lot of over the counter drugs are potentially much more dangerous.

Some people just don't know when they are being held captive to others beliefs. Also as you relate to the Jr High or High school, if they didn't have all these other false beliefs they wanted to propagate on kids, they might have more time to at least teach them some in depth scientific facts on how humans and or just mammals reproduce in elementary school. The secret to not making stupid mistakes, is knowing how stupid mistakes are made and thus avoiding them.

There is tons of all kinds of sex related innuendo, references and just about everything else that has to do with sex saturating so many forms of most modern communication. Even these people that call them selves Christians seem to always to gravitate to the subject. Like so should a little concrete knowledge be harmful to anyone that might be able to grasp the concept?

Yea, that sounds stupid, but me being a kind of a stupid one even kind of knows better

On edit The Condoms are more for the protection of the male than to prevent pregnancies statement is only in referance to how males think about it for the whole array of complications that come with sex.

[Centered]

22. Good Points...

but I am still wonderring if we are getting that point across. Religion may have alot to do with the stigma of contraception, but my comments were loosely based simply on what I remember of observations of the mental and physical nature of my youth.

In my perception Boys don't wear condoms because "you can't feel anything" and girls give in because they want to have a boyfriend or they want a certain boy to like them.

When I was younger I wasn't thinking about religion when I made my decision to wait... I was simply too scared to do it wrong and then people would know I was a virgin for so long...

but I am unique...

[nolabels]

24. I think I was twenty when I first became sexually intimate

And the news is you cant feel anything is true. I read up on the subject on my own when I was in forth grade pretty well. At our elementary they showed all the sixth grade one of those stupid movies.
In our classroom they had to stop the film several times because everybody was laughing. It just seemed so stupid. We all must of been wondering who did know a lot of them things. For me sex was not a priorty when I was a teen, and it was too dangerous for getting a girl pregnant.

The other news, some of them other guys I knew that would brag about having sex in the tne teens. They had still have that big hang up of trying make the world think they are still hip even though they turned forty.

[geniph]

47. For most teenage boys, "can't feel anything"

is a good thing - otherwise, they're liable to be through before they start!

But seriously, my stepsons were educated to always use condoms. We then had to educate them to NOT leave the used condoms in their bedding - not so long as I'm doing the laundry! Yuck! My husband's method was simple: "Make me a grandfather before I'm 60 and I'll break both your legs." (Yes, he was kidding. Mostly.)

[Arkansas Granny]

43. I am not a sex educator,

but I am the mother of three boys. During their junior high and high school years, my sons received as much education from me concerning STD's and pregnancy as my daughter did. I tried very hard to make them think of the consequences of their actions and I promoted use of condoms for all of them.

[Centered]

46. Good for you!!

taking an active part in your childrens lives is critical to thier success later in life!!

[The Flaming Red Head]

55. I have a dresser drawer full of them

I have one teenage boy and a few that call me Mom.

My friend and I picked up a bag full of condoms (Trojans in cardboard containers) at Mardi Gras, they were throwing them off the balconies on Bourbon and we just walked along picked up as many as we could this year instead of beads.

Now, the kids ask me for them and I hand them out.

(it's not like I need them)

[BlueEyedSon]

11. Amnio is typically performed at 4 months, and it detects profound

genetic anomalies. I believe that mothers should have the right to abort if one is detected.

Side note: who knows what that couple may have done SOONER if abortion was nearly free, ubiquitous, and without moral (religious) baggage ....

[Ilsa]

15. Not really "out there".

A fetus cannot survive on its own at that stage, much less two fetuses as they tend to be smaller and less developed. Abortions are performed all the time at this stage for genetic problems etc. Why? Because this is usually the safest time to test for problems.

This is what happens when the govt stops funding abortions for the poor: they want them and can't get them. A "crime" is the result.

I wonder if the 17 year old could qualify for one under CHiPs, or if abortion is excluded. I wonder if she was able to receive medical followup care, since the right-wingers claim this is why they want to regulate abortion health care providers.

BTW, a poor 17 year old carrying twins would be considered high risk for complications, resulting in death of the mother, or long term NICU care for one or both babies. Given possibility #2, I'm surprised some Rethuglican didn't offer to pay for the abortion.

[Seabiscuit]

26. Roe vs. Wade still governs.

You should read it sometime. It's available for free on the web. 4 months, under Roe v. Wade is not "getting out there". Abortions are allowed throughout the pregnancy, with different conditions attaching to each trimester of pregnancy.

Federal law here trumps state law.

That's why on appeal this Texas statute should be stricken as unconstitutional. No fetus has legal rights equal to rights accorded living people - once a child is born and takes its first breath it acquire full legal rights as a human being. Ipso facto, no one may be charged with *murder* of a fetus. One may only "murder" a human being who possesses full legal rights.

[sendero]

27. Well...

.... I hope this guy has the $$$$ to appeal this decision. Why do I suspect that he doesn't?

[Seabiscuit]

28. The ACLU will probably step in. They often do in cases like this.

There are also attorneys who would gladly appeal this for free, as it would be a nice feather in anyone's cap to argue before the US Supreme Court and have a Texas statute declared unconstitutional.

If I were practicing in Texas I'd happily handle it pro bono.

[Megahurtz]

49. I hope he appeals,

because this is insane.:crazy: The Repukes cannot get away with this.:grr:

[The Flaming Red Head]

54. They won't even do one until you're at least three months

Four months is not that far along

[leesa]

12. I wonder, since fetuses have the full rights of people now, will THEY be

charged with murder if the mother dies due to pregnancy or birth?

[BlueEyedSon]

13. Will the IRS let you claim your fetus as a dependent ?

[noonwitch]

17. No, but being pregnant and poor makes one eligible for medicaid

Also, WIC and Food Stamps

[Ilsa]

16. I hope he has a decent attorney

who will appeal this ridiculous outcome. Or I hope that a good law firm will take up the case and protect this man.

[edhopper]

18. Unbelievable responses here!

Some of your comments seem to support his guilty verdict. Let's be clear, a 19 year old boy is sentenced to LIFE IN PRISON for helping his girlfriend end her pregnancy. He was not charged with assault on her but MURDER of her fetuses. If she was 18 she would also go to prison for LIFE for ending her own pregnancy. Any of you who remotely condone this prosecution are seriously drinking the kool aid.

[Igel]

19. I'm surprised, actually, although I don't know the details of the

Texas law.

A few years ago this was a big deal in the media and Congress. And state legislatures. If you get a girl pregnant and induce an abortion (by stomping, drugs, or whatever means), and she doesn't want it, are you off scott-free?

Is punching the woman in the stomach and triggering a miscarriage equivalent to punching the woman in the stomach when she's not pregnant? Both are battery, to be sure, but there's a difference. How to quantify the difference, and to justify the difference in sentences.

I thought the distinction was the woman's volition: the woman could do anything to the fetus that didn't result in its being born injured--killing it was fine. In fact, if you do drugs and consume enough alcohol, an abortion could save you jail time in some states. But this was because it was part of her, and her rights were at stake.

This seems to be saying 17-year-old girl could or induce an abortion herself, or hire a medically trained man to perform one, but she can't enlist a non-licensed practitioner. I'd think the best they could get him for would be practicing medicine without a license.

[slackmaster]

34. You get it

This seems to be saying 17-year-old girl could or induce an abortion herself, or hire a medically trained man to perform one, but she can't enlist a non-licensed practitioner.

Bingo.

[bunkerbuster1]

23. that thar prosecutin' was WRONG, I tell you what

they should've fried his ass instead a that life sentence, a-yup!

</bushite>

[slackmaster]

32. They chose a very bad way to end the pregnancy

There are states where an abortion at 4 months would be perfectly legal.

And there's always Mexico.

[Dogmudgeon]

20. This just ain't right

I mean, a kid has been condemned to prison for the rest of his life for the crime of offending the religious psychopaths who run the state of Texas, and half the people in this thread commenting on it have decided it was more important to proclaim the kids involved as being "stupid".

Let's see ... horrendous injustice vs. a couple of dumb teenagers. Which is worse?

Sounds like the "Darwin Yuk-Yuk" meme has done its work.

--p!

[Seabiscuit]

25. Vioates Roe vs. Wade.

Looks like these East Texas yahoos want to lose another US Supreme Court case.

[nolabels]

29. Kind of was some of the reasoning behind the Roe v Wade wasn't it

They wouldn't see this case for a number of years though normally

[slackmaster]

31. No it doesn't

Read the article.

[Seabiscuit]

36. Yes it does.

Read Roe vs. Wade.

[slackmaster]

44. Have you read it?

Roe v. Wade protects the right to abortion only during the first three months of pregnancy. After that, states can regulate elective abortions.

The woman in this case was four months pregnant according to the article.

[genieroze]

38. Where does it say that it doesn't in the article?

[slackmaster]

45. The article makes no comment in that regard

It does say the woman was four months pregnant. That puts her in the realm of regulation by the states.

[Megahurtz]

50. Maybe they're trying to overturn Roe vs. Wade

through the backdoor! Texas "precident" maybe?

They cannot get away with this!!!:grr:

[slackmaster]

30. Four months into the term - Flores would go to prison even in California

There is no way he would get life, but he'd be convicted of two counts of murder.

[genieroze]

33. When the Theocraps make abortion illegal, this will be the norm. eom

[saigon68]

37. The Coat Hanger Police will be out in force

There will be rewards to the Hateful nut job Fundy creeps who turn in young girls and mandatory life sentences for these "CRIMINALS"

[Megahurtz]

51. This is getting bad.

I bet we are going to be seeing more of this because of those whacko Theocraps.:crazy::freak::freak::freak:

[Freedom_from_Chains]

35. Teen Gets Life Sentence For Helping Girlfriend End Pregnancy

Now this is a really good idea, let's fuck-up some kids life for being young and stupid. Yea, that's the kind of country I want to live in.

19-Year-Old Stepped On Stomach While Girl Punched Self

POSTED: 6:44 am CDT June 7, 2005


Gerardo Flores was accused of causing the miscarriage by stepping on his girlfriend's stomach. He was prosecuted under the state's new fetal protection law.

Erica Basoria acknowledged asking Flores to help end her pregnancy. But the 17-year-old can't be prosecuted because of her legal right to abortion.

The defense contended that Basoria punched herself while Flores was stepping on her, making it impossible to tell who killed the twins.

The jury reached a verdict after deliberating four hours. Because prosecutors declined to seek the death penalty in the case, Flores received the automatic life sentence.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/4577721/detail.html

[arwalden]

40. What Retards!

(The prosecutor and jury.)

The teens weren't too bright either.

[deacon2]

41. Life Sentence?

These kids - and kids they are - acted despicably. But a life sentence? You'd think he had smoked a joint or masturbated without a note from his parents.

[TexasLawyer]

42. SAD story

They had a big article on this in the Houston Press, long interviews with the couple. The girl did not want the baby (I don't know if she knew she was carrying twins). She heard that she might miscarry if her abdominal area was hit, so she asked her boyfriend to stomp on her stomach with his feet. He didn't want to, but she insisted. He relented.

It was a dumb, stupid thing that shouldn't have happened, but it shouldn't count as murder. I feel very sorry for this boy. If he should be punished at all, it should be for assault on his girlfriend, and I think that even that is a stretch. I wish I had been on his jury.

[geniph]

48. This is exactly the kind of thing that RU-486 could prevent

yet fundie fruitbats who HATE the idea of women controlling their own fertility have managed to tie it up in all manner of absurd restrictions because it might be unsafe for some women, sometimes. Like coathangers and knitting needles are healthful.

Had this stupid girl had access to RU-486, she could have simply terminated her unwanted pregnancy without all this nonsense. But we can't have that, now can we???

[Megahurtz]

52. This guy SHOULD NOT get a life sentence for this!!!

"Fetal Protection Law"???:wtf:

What business is it of theirs what someone wants to do with their own body? It's so intrusive, like they're peering into everyone's pants or something! These GOP whackos remind me of a bunch of closet pervs or "peeping Toms" always watching what other people are doing.:freak::freak::freak:

And what's wrong with this Jury??? Has Texas gone completely insane???

If I was a juror in this case I would never allow this guy to get a life sentence, let alone be charged for murder in the first place!!!:grr:

[Chovexani]

53. Message to women:

We are only vessels and our lives have no value.

And the beat goes on...

(Handmaid's Tale is required reading! Don't be caught unawares.)

[jswordy]

56. How this was headlined in different places is interesting

Some samples:

Father guilty of aborting twins, mother not charged
Catholic World News

Man Gets Life Under Fetal Protection Law
ABC News

SUSPECT FOUND GUILTY OF MURDERING UNBORN CHILDREN
KFDX-TV, Texas

Teen guilty of fetal murder
Lufkin Daily News, Texas

Man gets life for helping girlfriend kill 2 fetuses
Knoxville News Sentinel , Tennessee

Man, convicted under fetal protection law, receives life
WANE-TV, Indiana

Fetus Murder Sentence
KLTV, Texas

Teen found guilty of capital murder in unborn twins' deaths
The Lufkin Daily News, Texas

Teen Gets Life Sentence For Helping Girlfriend End Pregnancy
KFOXtv.com, Texas

Boyfriend jailed in bizarre abortion
Ottawa Sun, Canada