Family Sues Over Bible Study Ban During Recess

[Kadie]

Family Sues Over Bible Study Ban During Recess
School Board Rules Recess Not Free Time

POSTED: 10:11 am PDT June 9, 2005
UPDATED: 10:19 am PDT June 9, 2005

KNOXVILLE, Tenn. -- A 10-year-old boy and his parents are suing the youngster's school in Knoxville, Tenn., after the principal made them stop studying the Bible during recess.

The lawsuit said that fourth-grader Luke Whitson and some of his friends began a Bible study at recess during the school year, but another parent complained to the principal.

The Whitsons said the principal "demanded that they stop their activity at once, put their Bibles away and, from that point forward, cease from bringing their Bibles to school."

snip...
But last month, the Knox County Board of Education said that while reading the Bible is acceptable during free time, recess is not considered free time.

http://www.ktvu.com/education/4589545/detail.html

[merwin]

1. No, dumbass, a kid can read a bible whenever the hell he wants,

as long as a the student is not in class.

Now, unless I'm mistaken, recess isn't a class last time I checked. I never got credit for it, at least.

[Demit]

4. self-delete. I totally misread your post, LOL!

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. Technically, it IS a class

in MO, it is counted as time in P.E. I would imagine this is a policy in other states as well.

[merwin]

38. I've never heard of that one before...

Even in the 4th grade?

[proud2BlibKansan]

42. K through 6 in MO

I'm not sure about high school.

[struggle4progress]

47. If you had to teach a gaggle of elementary school fidgets, you ..

.. might want to insist that they run around in the fresh air and wear themselves out a bit, so you could do some more educating afterwards ...

[mcscajun]

2. Recess is supposed to be for physical activity and fresh air.

Not reading, whatever the book may be.

[cornermouse]

12. I agree.

Recess is for running and exercising muscles, expending energy outside instead of in the classroom while the teacher is trying to teach.

These parents are foolish.

[merwin]

19. Yes, how dare they exercise their mind with evil books. :-)

My guess is that the people would would rather read than go 'run around' probably aren't the same ones who are acting out in the classroom.

[cornermouse]

24. Trust me. 10 year old boys have a lot of energy.

And if they aren't allowed to get rid of it one way (recess), they'll get rid of it by getting in trouble in the classroom later.

In fact, I'll go further. If you don't let them get outside to play, they're going to be all but bouncing off the walls later.

[merwin]

39. I was one of those that would rather read than go outside, and do fine.

I also know plenty of kids that would rather read inside than go outside and get picked on, beaten up, etc.

[UCLA Dem]

3. great. another excuse for a crusade for the ever persecuted fundies.

[Skip Intro]

7. They sure do play the persecuted role, don't they?

Brave souls facing evil, God-hating liberals bent on their complete irradication.

*yawn*

[VegasWolf]

5. Brainwashing little children with the bible is atrocious, the bible should

be taught in college where people have enough maturity to study
the concepts in a logical manner.

[DaDeacon]

27. What ? Get out of here...

Look if a 10 year old & friends want to study a book any book during freetime then they should. The need to make the bible some grand "unknow " is just silly BTW! Faith isn't logical

[havocmom]

6. Some parents shoulda just put their kids up to 'playing Harry Potter'

during recess. Would've worked the fundies using their kids into such a frenzy they would not have kept pushing the bible thing to provoke someone into pushing back so they can sue.

Note to the principal: Sometimes the best defense is an oblique offensive end run around the opponets own blind spot ;)

[ninkasi]

30. Excellent idea Havocmom

That's the kind of thing I'd do just to see what happens. I don't know the kids or parents involved, but I'll bet this is more their parent's idea than the kid's.

They have 100% of the rest of their waking moments to read the Bible; why push the issue in public schools. When my kids were in school, recess is usually directed, if nothing else.

The teachers told us we'd be playing volleyball, or some other game, and that's what we did. Some days were free days, we didn't have any specific activity we had to participate in, but we also couldn't go into any of the classrooms alone.

They just have to keep pushing, and pushing, and pushing...trying to "wrong foot" the rest of us the way Bush and Blair tried to "wrong foot" Saddam. Their tactics stay the same.

[AtLiberty]

8. God forbid a kid have a little free time to accomplish nothing...

Idle fingers, devil's workshop...

[XemaSab]

9. This is retarded

seriously, we need to stop giving the fundies any reason to claim they are being persecuted.

God forbid a 4th grader should read the Bible and happen upon the sermon on the mount... or the story of Lot and his daughters. :-)

[asjr]

11. The kid's parents probably ripped

our the page of Beatitudes and flushed it down the toilet.

[XemaSab]

14. no doubt

blessed are the poor--AS IF!

[TreasonousBastard]

10. So, did they have to hire an evil "trial lawyer" to sue?

Eventually, they just keep stepping all over themselves when they've got to make a big issue out of every little thing.

Suing to keep the Bible out of school... Suing to keep the Bible in school...

I'd like to sue them all to STFU.

[chelsea0011]

13. As an atheist I am actually very beige about this

Free time is free time. But what kind of kid(s) wants to use play time to read the friggin bible? Me thinks the parents control here and were testing for a lawsuit. Too bad all the trial lawyers have been eliminated by reublican'ts

[tanyev]

37. Yep. Something's fishy.

If a kid wants to read at recess they should be able to. But what 10 year old boy wants to read a Bible at recess? I taught a few years, and the boys were always the first ones out there, starting up a game of some sort. Sometimes one of the girls might take a book out and sit in a swing and read, but that was pretty rare, too.

[CottonBear]

15. Why don't they read it at home and in Sunday school

like everyone else? Geez. I grew up going to church and Sunday school each week. I also went to church youth groups and to vacation Bible school and church camp. I never once read the Bible in school or in any public place outside of church.

[roguevalley]

16. I am soooooooooo sick of this shit. What's next? Sue Safeway?

The 7/11? Honest to God. I am sooooooooooooooooo sick of this false piety.

[IChing]

17. I taught 4th grade and

My charter school had bible studies before school started not in my classroom. (K-12) but only for 8-12 grades

Recess was used for fresh air and exercise, if someone wanted to read outside my classroom on the playground during their recess, I didn't care. My classroom was my domain, so I had kids that wanted to stay and hangout, but it was also my recess/planning time also, so I did not usually allow that. I encouraged any reading and any material the student brought that was at their reading level or 2 months either higher/lower.

Reading at the fourth grade level is normally not very high, so I think that the bible study was not at the appropriate level for "study" if it was done in the classroom.

The article did not state where these kids wanted to do their bible study.

edited for clarity

[The Blue Knight]

18. Who cares if a kid wants to read the Bible on recess?

If this was a Muslim being denied the right to read the Qu'ran on recess, I'm sure we'd see a much different reaction around here.

They're outside of class, and recess is a students free time. If a student wants to read the Bible, then let him. This is a stupid battle to fight.

[no_hypocrisy]

22. I think the school is trying to prevent its children from being divided

amongst themselves by allowing an activity that is not an individual activity. Here, a group of children is formed to the exclusion of the rest of the children. While anyone can join them (provided that s/he agrees with their religious tenets), the result is still Christian group (good) and "the others (bad). An important purpose of public schools is to have children from diverse backgrounds meet and socialize, without any divisions to prevent that (e.g., racism, politics, socioeconomics/class).

Fostering a religious club during class hours (after 8:30 a.m. and before 3:00 p.m.) gives the impression that the school itself endorses their religion and is indirectly promoting it as well as giving an unwanted effect of dividing the population of children.

[Piperay]

35. I agree

let the kid read anything he wants. When I was in school I read during recess and nobody cared. I wasn't reading the bible, I was just reading and no one ever told me I couldn't.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. Good point

about where the kids did this bible study. If they were anywhere but the playground, there would be a need for supervision. And that creates staffing problems.

[PurityOfEssence]

20. If my kids don't hear this every waking moment of their lives,

they might NEVER believe this shit.

It's everyone's job to make sure that my kids never pass a few seconds without hearing about our certainty. To remain passive or neutral is to deny our undeniable superiority. If anyone else doesn't want to hear it, they're PERSECUTING US!

We're better! We're the true aristocracy! All should bow before us.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

21. Is the reading being done silently or softly

or is it being done so loudly so that it's obviously being done to proselytize? I don't care what a child does during recess. There were times I used to lean up against the fence and read during recess -- Tom Swift Jr. and His Flying Lab, if I recall. My main concern is when the fundies attempt to chip away at the barrier between church and state. They've already claimed the flagpole; is this an attempt to capture the playground?

[Maat]

23. Ha! I love your name.

Are you really the last liberal in Palm Springs (I used to work out there in '93). They wouldn't stop talking about Barbara Sinatra (I worked in kids' counseling, and she founded that center); it made me crazy.

[Initech]

26. Personally, I think that...

For one, as a purveyor and advocate of freedom of speech, I do not see what the harm is.

Two, as long as he's not trying to convert anyone, or as long as he's not preaching why his friends are sinners, why should it be anyone else's problem?

[komplex]

28. Darn Skippy...

Republicans are always confused when they look at various polls sees overlap between their positions and the positions of African-Americans and then African Americans go and vote Democratic. Of course they forget about all the "stupid-sh*t," when the GOP attacks MLK, Malcom X, Rosa Parks, Nelson Mandella, (and to a lesser extent Jesse Jackson, Al Sharpton, etc...), the GOP wraps itself around the Confederate Flag, when the GOP beats up Affirmative Action, and so forth, it makes an impression.

I bet there are many posters on DU who look at all the data and wonder how the Economic and social issues overlap with the Democratic positions and then wonder why in the hell Christians don't vote Democratic.

[mittenlandgirl]

29. self described atheist here

I think they should get god out of the pledge and off our money(not sure it's worth the struggle,but they should)I am strongly in support of separation of church and state.

That said I think the kid and parents should contact the ACLU and get their help. And they would and have helped in situations like this.

Unless there is more to the story (which could be with the parent who complained) the school IS infringing on constitutional rights here. Even if it was in class, as long as it wasn't interfering any kid should be able to read the bible in class or recess. Bible study during recess is ok, and telling them not to bring bibles to school is over the top. I kinda have my doubts the school actually did this, but who knows, that's what the article says and they apparently declined to comment.

Separation of church and state means the school takes a "neutral" stance on religion.

Now I'm basing this on information in the article and there might not be enough info :shrug: But as it stands, even the ACLU would stand up for this.

[Geo55]

31. Well said.......

"Separation of church and state means the school takes a "neutral" stance on religion"

Dad, a kid was reading the bible at recess an' he said I should too....
well son/daughter.....here's what I believe.

[Must_B_Free]

32. My 5th grade public school had a "bible bus" that came around each week

the kids would go out and memorize bible verses and me and some other kid who weren't part of it had to sit in the classroom in the dark and put our head down on the desk.

The after the hour, the other kids would come back with popsicles and candy and class would start back up.

My parents went to a PTA meeting for this school once, which started with a prayer. My parents mentioned it to another lady in town that they didn't think that was right and she said "oh, you're just bigots"...

[Joj Bush]

33. The family is justified

dumb as they may be. Let them grow up less fit than their peers if they so desire. If recess is counted as P.E. than a group of kids sitting in a circle playing truth or dare should also have to cease that activity, which doesn't seem to be the case. But if in fact, all other children are required to be physically active during recess, the family has no case.

[Judi Lynn]

34. I've been around fundamentalists all my life.I have seen backlashes

to fundamentalist ways all my life, as well.

People don't really care to have others breathing down their necks, telling them what to do, to think, how to act, how to dress, what they can say, cannot say, where they can go, cannot go, how they must spend every waking moment.

Only the weakest personalities among the children, the ones who apparently are broken, are beaten down or intimidated sufficiently early ever continue to cling to their parents' ways.

What is lost is the chance for spontaneous, joyous friendships, warmth and true friendship among relatives. To keep this singleminded thought control in place means the parents are severe with the children: little tyrants.

Most children don't flourish in that environment, and they draw away. As adults they frequently see as little of their parents as possible.

There will be a backlash to this explosion of forced religiosity. You can take my word. I've already seen it too many times to believe otherwise. All I don't know about it is what form the backlash will take.

Forcing religion down people's throats only creates lonely people in the end. There is no payoff. Only alienation and fear.

[JNelson6563]

36. So they form a group

and then what? Peer pressure to join? If you don't join you hate Christians or are evil?

If anyone here thinks these fundies just want their handful of kids to be able to ponder the bible I have a surprise for you....

Julie

[theboss]

40. The School is wrong

The parents are right.

And when did recess become non free time?

When I was kid recess was whatever we wanted it to be. Sometimes we played football. Sometimes we sat and told jokes.

This is stupid.

[marshall]

41. Definition of recess

The schools claims that recess is not free time. I would like to see how they define it, and whether there are organized activities. Maybe they should call it gym class or something if it is not really the traditional use of recess.
I would also like to know what prompted the parent to lodge a complaint. Was there something disruptive about the way these children were conducting their study? Were they recruiting others?
When I was a teacher we had 20 minutes a day that was designated free reading time. Everyone from the principal to the youngest student was supposed to read something. It could be Sports Illustrated or a Harlequin romance or a textbook. And yes, it could even be the Bible or the Koran.

[Bridget Burke]

44. He's not just reading the Bible-he set up a Bible Study Group.

The parent of another student made a complaint about this--it didn't originate with the Principal.

Forget the ACLU--the case is being handled by the Alliance Defense Fund.

The Alliance Defense Fund is a legal alliance defending the right to hear and speak the Truth through strategy, training, funding, and litigation.....

Responding to the urgent need for the legal defense and advocacy of religious freedom, the leaders of more than 30 ministries came together in 1993 to launch ADF. These leaders included the late Dr. Bill Bright, the late Larry Burkett, Dr. James Dobson, Dr. D. James Kennedy, and the late Marlin Maddoux. Their prime concern was the dramatic loss of religious freedom in America's courts and the resulting challenges to people of faith to live and proclaim the Gospel.

www.alliancedefensefund.org/main/default.aspx

Of course the Dominionists will whine that they're being persecuted--that's what they do best.

[demgurl]

45. The way I read the information available is

that the kids are still allowed to have bible study before or after school, just not during school time which includes recess.

http://www.wmcstations.com/Global/story.asp?S=3427938

<snip>

When the issue surfaced last month, the Knox County school board said students can read Bibles during their free time, but that's before and after classes -- not during recess.

<snip>

The school board ruled that recess is not free time and I guess now it is up to the courts to either endorse this position or state that it is free time. As for the information we have right now, the bible is not being banned during free time, only during what they have designated as school/teaching time.

I might have a problem with it if they banned the bible from school property. instead, it appears what they are saying is that they have no problem with the bible study being done before or after school on what is officially designated as the student's own time.

The lawsuit that is now being brought against the school and the school board is arguing that what the school is doing in unconstitutional and wrong. We will see what happens but it sounds like the school tried to give a little and see it both ways by at least giving the leeway to do these activities before or after school. This does not paint the school as hedonists who want to do away with religion and personal freedoms. It, instead, paints them as someone that can not allow something on school time but tries to encourage things before or after that schedule. They did not have to bring this up but in the interest of trying to be fair to the student they did. I think they tried to be fair to everyone involved.

[demgurl]

46. One more thing....

Their cause would come off as much more admirable if they did not do the whole Christian persecuted thing!!!

http://headlines.agapepress.org/archive/6/62005a.asp

<snip>
He was under the impression that they were telling him there he was something wrong with his Christian faith - that there was something wrong with him reading his Bible," Pope expalins. "He was, in fact, treated like a second-class citizen."
<Snip>

<snip>
........other children at Karns Elementary have been afraid to even bring their Bibles to school.
<snip>

Why can they not just leave it at a rights issue and why do they have to bring in the "Oh woe is us" angle? This tends to really turn me off.