Microsoft bans 'democracy' for China web users - Moneycentral

[grahamhgreen]

Microsoft's new Chinese internet portal has banned the words "democracy" and "freedom" from parts of its website in an apparent effort to avoid offending Beijing's political censors.

Users of the joint-venture portal, formally launched last month, have been blocked from using a range of potentially sensitive words to label personal websites they create using its free online blog service, MSN Spaces.

Attempts to input words in Chinese such as "democracy" prompted an error message from the site: "This item contains forbidden speech. Please delete the forbidden speech from this item." Other phrases banned included the Chinese for "demonstration", "democratic movement" and "Taiwan independence".

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?feed=FT&Date=20050610&ID=4884671

[agincourt]

1. Another proud moment for microsoft,

they'll probably ban LIHOP and smirk for over here.

[dArKeR]

2. Disgusting! American children are being slaughtered daily in Iraq so that

Iraqis can say the words "freedom" and "demoncracy" and look what Bill Gates is doing!

ALL DUers you should email, forward this story to every editor, news source you have, every Congressperson, every call in show, try to get a hold of Air America on Monday!

Just disgusting. Every dead American child in Iraq has died for "freedom" and "demoncracy" and Gates is afraid, a coward to even say the words even as our soldiers are dying by the hour in Iraq. Gates is Coward! Gates is a typical Republican.

Democrats should point this out. Not to exploit, just to show/tell the truth!

[SlavesandBulldozers]

5. do you intentionally spell it "demoncracy"?

nt

[dArKeR]

6. LOL! This time it was a Freudian slip. Too late to edit. "Democracy"

[SlavesandBulldozers]

7. happens to the best of us

not that I am of of the best of us, but you get my point;)

[leveymg]

11. Might be a way to get around the censors - but misspelling may be

rather more difficult in Madarin, which uses pictograms. Suppose you could substite characters that have a similar (or opposite) meaning. One would need a well-developed sense of irony.

I'm sure these tricks to fool the censors have been in development for centuries in China, so Microsoft's cooperation may not have much impact there.:bounce:

[SlavesandBulldozers]

27. could be that as well

I definitely did not think Darker was being intentionally disruptive, just wanted to make sure he was alright more than anything.

[Coventina]

9. I agree with you about Gates, disagree about Iraq war

Americans are NOT being slaughtered for Iraqi freedom, that's what Bushco wants you to believe.

[ckramer]

10. Actually, you should say this

"American children are being slaughtered daily in Iraq so that Iraqis can say the words "freedom" and "demoncracy" and more importantly our oil companies can do whatever they want in Iraq!"

Seriously, that's only reason bush invaded Iraq and the only reason why America's military budget is higher than that of all other countries combined.

That's not disgusting, darker, that's the way how "demoncracy" works - serving the rich.

[Bassic]

3. What a sad way to add

to an already inconceivable fortune

[newyawker99]

13. Hi Bassic!!

Welcome to DU!! :toast:

[dArKeR]

4. Gates is more disgusting than Delay!

[Coventina]

8. Well, as if there was any doubt, now we know Gates' priorities

:eyes:

[UncleSepp]

12. You people on this thread have it all wrong

I'm not usually that blunt, but for pete's sake, think! This is a precondition of doing business in China. It's this, or no portal at all. The last time Microsoft made a politically incorrect wording on a website in China - putting Taiwan in a dropdown list of countries instead of a list of regions - MS employees in China were arrested. For a word, in a dropdown list. That's why the Chinese sites have to be scrubbed for political correctness. That's the reality of doing business with China, and if you want to point fingers somewhere, I would suggest you point them at the Chinese government.

[sadiesworld]

14. Perhaps some democratic reform should be a precondition

for American corporations doing business in China?! Bill Gates has also lauded China as a labor "model".

Maybe some DUers just don't agree with Gates (or you, presumably).

[UncleSepp]

23. That would be good, laudable, but not practical

China is already one of the lead sources for hardware, and is becoming more and more of a needed partner in producing hardware. Without the hardware, there's nothing for the software to run on. The computer industry would be SOL without China right now, so this is the imperfect solution.

[KDLarsen]

16. As I understand it..

.. MS have used the excuse that the words are forbidden in China, which unfortunately (for them) is not the case.

[UncleSepp]

22. Most likely, the words didn't pass PoliCheck

Wording has caused serious problems, including detainment and arrest, for MS employees in China. In order to avoid those problems, keep China employees safe, and continue to do business, the error is on the side of caution.

[cestpaspossible]

19. In your mind, that excuses it.

[UncleSepp]

21. Yes.

This is a necessary precondition of doing business in China.

[cestpaspossible]

24. And of course

NOT doing business in China is not an option :eyes:

[UncleSepp]

26. For Microsoft, no.

China's a critical partner for hardware, not just the hardware that MS products run on, but the hardware everyone's products run on. Without good relationships with the hardware manufacturers, it's pretty hard to run a software company of any kind. Roll your eyes all you like, but that's how the business works.

[sadiesworld]

31. Profit over principles...

it's the American Way.

[UncleSepp]

32. Would you really prefer that corporations dictate policy to nations?

I thought that's what most of us were against here.

For the record, I would rather that companies withheld their business from countries with poor records in human rights and environmental protection. Realistically, though, I don't see how it would be possible in this case. I may be too close to see it in an idealistic, detached manner - stopping dealings with China would mean that I and most people I know would lose their jobs, both people working in the US and people working in China. Not conceding to Chinese sensibilities could easily lead to the arrest of my Chinese coworkers, and I don't want to see any of that happen.

[sadiesworld]

34. Corporations ARE dictating to nations...

that's the problem. The solution is regulation, if not the stripping of corporate personhood. Perhaps we need to do a bit more than state for the record what we would prefer in terms of human rights and environmental protection.

[UncleSepp]

42. Bad when they disagree with you, good when they agree?

If a big enough business uses its economic power to influence a country's policy, then you have corporations dictating to nations. When you suggest that a corporation as large as Microsoft not do business in China until China changes its policy, you're suggesting Microsoft do just that. That's all well and good as long as the corporation has what you would call "good" values, but when the corporation's values are contrary to what you would want, then you'd oppose it?

It's the principle of the thing. Nations are sovereign over corporations, not the other way around. If one will do business within a country, one will take care not to offend one's host. That might mean doing things one would not ordinarily do in one's own country.

I am curious about this:

Perhaps we need to do a bit more than state for the record what we would prefer in terms of human rights and environmental protection.

What do you do? I vote, make monetary contributions, write letters, sometimes go to demonstrations. It doesn't seem to make much of a difference. What would you suggest?

[annabanana]

15. With Gates making fabric for the bamboo curtain..

how can we claim to be lovers of Freedom? With Communist China being such a darling of big business, and our largest creditor, how can we lay claim to any moral high ground at all?

[Ezlivin]

17. When will Microsoft ban "virus", "adware", and "spyware"?

Gee, why don't they add those words to their magical dictionary of negation?

[DrDebug]

18. Hmm and I was thinking of starting democraticunderground.cn

Guess it isn't going to function.

[leveymg]

29. But DemoncraticUnderground.cn might work (see above) n/t

[Triana]

20. We're next...

...the US gov't is planning on implementing the same censorship here - if the current regime stays in power. It is incumbent on us all to use the only DEMOCRATIC bastion of a free society (the internet) we have left to GET THOSE BASTARDS OUT OF POWER (The Repukes aka the American Taliban) before they accomplish this mission.

[leveymg]

30. But, the web is their most effective mass surveillance tool.

They wouldn't want to just shut it down. They'd have to bring back 2-way TeeVee. :evilgrin:

[Triana]

33. they won't shut it down, they'll censor like China does...

...a well-informed voting public is their #1 enemy.

[dArKeR]

25. Put the world on notice!

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail] Philip Pan: [e-mail]
Foreign correspondent/China

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]


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http://money.cnn.com/services/speakup /
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[e-mail], [e-mail] http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/co/index.htm district of CO.

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http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-oped.story
http://www.latimes.com/services/site/la-comment-dcbureau.story


[e-mail] -To Dr. Nile Gardiner - To Edwin J. Feulner, Ph.D.
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

[e-mail], [e-mail]
http://www.hastertforcongress.org/contact.html

[e-mail]
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?click_id=3&art_id=qw1077843961492B262&s ...

Office of the Spokesman for the Secretary-General
United Nations, S-378
New York, NY 10017
Tel. [phone] - press/media only
Fax. [phone]







[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail] [e-mail]+++, Philip Pan: [e-mail]
Foreign correspondent/China


[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

Environment
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]




Kevin Sullivan: [e-mail]

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]


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http://money.cnn.com/services/speakup /
http://www.cnn.com/feedback /

[e-mail], [e-mail]
http://www.abcnews.go.com/service/Help/abcmail_news.html

[e-mail]

[e-mail], [e-mail]

[e-mail] [e-mail]+++

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William Kristol – PNAC, Weekly Standard

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[e-mail]
Edwin Feulner President

Nile Gardiner
[e-mail]


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[e-mail]
http://www.hastertforcongress.org/contact.html


http://www.davidgergen.com/index.php?page=contact David Gergen


AEI http://www.aei.org / American Enterprise Institute
[e-mail]
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]


[e-mail] whore


Fair reporter

[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]" target="_blank">[e-mail]


[e-mail] Ian Fraser Mail and Guardian

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/help/3281777.stm BBC Feedback


http://www.globeandmail.com/services/site/help.html#inbox TGM


[e-mail] longshoremen

[slay]

28. Microsoft is typical of corporations - helping evil scumbags stay in power

Fuck Microsoft! Here's theregister.co.uk's article about this:


Microsoft deletes 'freedom' and 'democracy' in China
By Lucy Sherriff
Published Monday 13th June 2005 09:30 GMT

Microsoft has bowed to Beijing's political censors and has banned the use of the words "freedom" and "democracy" on some areas of its Chinese internet portal, along with a host of other politically sensitive words such as "Taiwan independence" and "demonstration".

According to the Financial Times, portal operators have imposed the restriction on the names users give their blogs, although the words can still be used within blog's text. Users who try to use the offensive terminology are met with error messages informing them that they have used "forbidden speech", which they are asked to delete from the item.

more:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/06/13/ms_ban_freedom/

[maddezmom]

35. kick to combine

[YankeyMCC]

36. Microsoft censors Chinese blogs

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4088702.stm

This person gets it:

(snip)

"The lack of ethics on the part of these companies is extremely worrying. Their management frequently justifies collaboration with Chinese censorship by saying that all they are doing is obeying local legislation."

(snip)


This is the kind of "ethics" discussion the nation should be having instead of worrying about what happens in people's private lives.

[Lithos]

37. Yep

And the privates were following orders given by their sargeants, who were following those of their officers, who were following those of the generals, who were...

This just shows once again that is good for corporations is not good for the country.

[JohnStreetMyHero]

38. This sucks

I certainly wish Democratic leaders would take Microsoft to task for this despicable behavior. If you are lucky enough (or foolish enough) to be a shareholder, please let the company know.

<http://www.microsoft.com/msft/investor.mspx>

[reprobate]

39. An easy way to counter any M$ conivance-don't buy his shit.

As a recent (5 months) switcher I can tell you that there's an easier and better way to compute. OS X puts Microshit to shame. This is how computing should be. It just works. Ask anyone who has used it and they'll likely tell you they won't go back to Gate's crap.

No anti-virus to worry about, no spyware software to screw up your system, not even a registry to clean.

And it's much less expensive to deploy. I just paid $150 for a five computer license for Tiger. What would five copies of XP cost? $1000? $1500. Maybe best of all, there's no silly activation scheme. Apple won't make you feel like a theif.

Did you see Steve Jobs announcement the other day? With the switch from IBM to Intel, OS X will now run on both PPC and x86 chips, meaning you won't have to buy Apple hardware, but like I love to do, play around with the hardware to get the best performance. And no activation hassles when you change components.

The one most important result of switching for me has been the return of peace to the home. My dog no longer has to run and hide under the bed when the system crashes, taking several hours of work with it. And my wife no longer threatens: "Either that stupid computer goes out the door, or I do."

Come on folks, join us. Computing is much nicer over here. And you won't be supporting Uncle Bill.

[wallwriter]

40. Wish it were science fiction, but it's not...

Software that prohibits representative democracy. Then again, that's what we have in the U.S. with Diebold.

The fact that I am a Mac user doesn't make me much happier...

[Nostradamus]

41. 14th Edition of the Newspeak Dictionary now available in Chinese

"...The purpose of Newspeak was not only to provide a medium of expression for the world-view and mental habits proper to the devotees of Ingsoc, but to make all other modes of thought impossible. It was intended that when Newspeak had been adopted once and for all and Oldspeak forgotten, a heretical thought -- that is, a thought diverging from the principles of Ingsoc -- should be literally unthinkable, at least so far as thought is dependent on words. Its vocabulary was so constructed as to give exact and often very subtle expression to every meaning that a Party member could properly wish to express, while excluding all other meanings and also the possibility of arriving at them by indirect methods. This was done partly by the invention of new words, but chiefly by eliminating undesirable words and by stripping such words as remained of unorthodox meanings, and so far as possible of all secondary meanings whatever. To give a single example. The word free still existed in Newspeak, but it could only be used in such statements as 'This dog is free from lice' or 'This field is free from weeds'. It could not be used in its old sense of ' politically free' or 'intellectually free' since political and intellectual freedom no longer existed even as concepts, and were therefore of necessity nameless. Quite apart from the suppression of definitely heretical words, reduction of vocabulary was regarded as an end in itself, and no word that could be dispensed with was allowed to survive. Newspeak was designed not to extend but to diminish the range of thought, and this purpose was indirectly assisted by cutting the choice of words down to a minimum.

"The Principles of Newspeak"

http://www.wesjones.com/1984-app.xml

[Octafish]

43. The Guardian's take...

This is worse than 1984.

"The American company is helping censors remove "freedom" and "democracy" from the net in China with a software package that prevents bloggers from using these and other politically sensitive words on their websites."

This is supposed to be an AMERICAN company?

Microsoft helps China to censor bloggers

Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Wednesday June 15, 2005
The Guardian

EXCERPT...

The restrictions, which also include an automated denial of "human rights", are built into MSN Spaces, a blog service launched in China last month by Shanghai MSN Network Communications Technology, a venture in which Microsoft holds a 50% stake.

Users who try to include such terms in subject lines are warned: "This topic contains forbidden words. Please delete them."

Even the most basic political discussion is difficult because "communism", "socialism", and "capitalism" are blocked in this way, although these words can be used in the body of the main text. Many taboo words are predictable, such as "Taiwanese independence", "Tibet", "Dalai Lama", "Falun Gong", "terrorism" and "massacre". But there are also quirks that reflect the embryonic nature of net censorship and the propaganda ministry's perceived threats.

The word "demonstration" is taboo, but "protest" is all right; "democracy" is forbidden, but "anarchy" and "revolution" are acceptable. On MSN Space, Chinese bloggers cannot use the name of their own president, but can comment on Tony Blair. "Tiananmen" cannot be mentioned.

CONTINUED....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1506601,00.html

Behold treason.

It isn't just for Washington, anymore.

D.C. that is.

[dissent1977]

44. Microsoft Helps China Censor Bloggers

Jonathan Watts in Beijing
Wednesday June 15, 2005
The Guardian

Civil liberties groups have condemned an arrangement between Microsoft and Chinese authorities to censor the internet.

The American company is helping censors remove "freedom" and "democracy" from the net in China with a software package that prevents bloggers from using these and other politically sensitive words on their websites.

The restrictions, which also include an automated denial of "human rights", are built into MSN Spaces, a blog service launched in China last month by Shanghai MSN Network Communications Technology, a venture in which Microsoft holds a 50% stake.

Users who try to include such terms in subject lines are warned: "This topic contains forbidden words. Please delete them."

More: http://www.guardian.co.uk/online/weblogs/story/0,14024,1506602,00.html

[brainshrub]

45. Dupe.

What is more pathetic: That Microsoft is willing to help the Chinese government enforce it's poor human-rights policy; Or that we Americans, who claim to be the guardians or freedom and Democracy, tolerate this kind of behavior from one of our own corporations?

[gordontron]

46. agreed

I've been a mac user for most of my life, this isn't the right to start a platform war but :puke:
I suppose the official line from Microsoft will be something along the lines of "If we didn't offer filtered blogging the Chinese would have hired someone else." revolting

[brainshrub]

48. If IBM hadn't sold Nazis the machines needed to track the Jews,

someone else would have. We can't have someone else to make money from pain & suffering, can we? Making money is more important than human rights.

[expatriot]

47. My fellow DUers.. if youi haven't switched from IE to Firefox yet, do it!

Uninstall IE from your computers.

[brainshrub]

49. Amen that!

Firefox rocks. Once you've tried it, you don't go back.

[Tux]

50. Uninstall Windows

And go with Linux or BSD. Support computing as it was meant to be with *nix. Besides, who can resist free software?

[Iowa]

53. Tux (or anyone), a question...

This China/Microsoft stuff does it for me - I'm switching to Linux. I have been meaning to anyway. I've been using Firefox for some time and love it, but what flavor of Linux do you prefer? I'll be switching over four systems and three of them will be operated by folks who aren't computer savvy in the least. I'm thinking xandros, but I'm not confident with the choice. Any suggestions anyone? What's your preference?

[Solon]

54. Several Flavors to try...

For simplicity, non-tech savvy people, probably Ubuntu, Mandrake, or FC3 would be best. I prefer Ubuntu Linux myself, but any of those may be best for you. Try them out, no harm in it, just remember to backup all personal data first, preferably off the computer, on CD or DVD.

[Tux]

58. Personally

I like Ubuntu and Fedora. Both are easy for beginners and have the tools for more advanced users as well. Both can get what they want out of them.

[Iowa]

60. Thanks Solon and Tux!

Exactly what I needed to know.

Edited to add: I just did some exploring on the Ubuntu page. I had never heard of it until you both mentioned it. It appears to be exactly what I'm looking for. Perfect! Thanks to both of you!

[B3Nut]

57. If I could avoid dependency hell...

I'd give Linux another shot...but I couldn't install any other software in the distros I tried (SuSE, Mandrake, Fed. core 2) other than what came with it, as there were missing files and I could never get yum or apt-get or whatever to work. Windows is garbage but at least I can make it behave.

A curse be upon Microsoft, though. :mad:

Todd in Beerbratistan

[Tux]

59. Repositories

Add more repositories and dependencies should be cleared up. RPMs are a bitch for dependencies but Fedora solved that with yum but I never heard of anyone not getting anything installed due to dependencies. Usually they are solved and installed with your software.

[Dover]

51. AND if Microsoft and other companies will do it for China, I feel quite

certain they would have no problem doing it for Bushco or any dictator anywhere, if they haven't already.

This is where we are.....this is the corporate culture which would like to govern the world. They behave as sovereign nations unto themselves, and yet would have US fight their battles and shed OUR blood for their interests.

If there is a revoloution in this country it should target those corporations who foster administrations like Bushco and work against human rights. The Bush family and a handful of corporations did the same sort of thing during WWII, continuing to do business with the Nazis.

[proud patriot]

52. BOOOOOOOOOOO

x(

[fasttense]

55. Microsoft will do anything for money and profits. n/t

[0007]

56. 'Tis time to tell Bill Gates to go fuck himself.......

[consuming]

61. vivala China?