Wes Clark: Bush Ruining Military/Strong Support for Dean

[Adelante]

Monday, June 13, 2005
At Manchester Democratic fundraiser Clark says Bush ruining military

MANCHESTER, N.H. (AP) — Retired Army Gen. Wesley Clark said Sunday that the Bush administration's foreign policy is undermining the nation's support for its military.

-snip-

"We have to make our legislators and president understand we believe in a volunteer force, and we expect him to have the leadership to guide our country in the right way in foreign affairs without wrecking the military institutions that keep us safe," Clark said while attending a fundraiser for Manchester Democrats.

He also accused the administration of committing soldiers in Iraq without proper planning and support.

"(Bush) used fear, the fear of the American people to take us into a war that was purely elective," Clark said.

Clark also voiced strong support for Democratic National Committee head Howard Dean, who has been criticized for comments attacking Republicans.

"We've got to protect our freedom and our liberty," Clark said. "I'm proud of Howard Dean. I'm proud of the Democratic party. And we're going to stand together as a party."

-snip-

http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050613/NEWS0201/106130013/-1/CITIZEN

[sam sarrha]

1. Keep up the pressure..

:applause: :applause: :applause: :woohoo: :kick:

[SHRED]

2. GO WESLEY!

I just love that guy!
:-)

[Clark2008]

78. He's one helluva man, isn't he!

:woohoo:

Go, Wesley. Go, Wesley. Go, Wesley!

[Dhalgren]

3. I believe that the General has called out every Democrat

in congress and elsewhere. Everyone with aspirations in '08 had better pay attention...

[Cha]

4. These comments of Wes Clark's

and ones in the past are telling me that the man has political GUTS!

Go Clark! :patriot:

[goclark]

25. Clarkie reporting for duty- go WES! nt

[calimary]

54. Well, if Wesley Clark can say he's proud of Howard Dean, then I can

say I'm DAMNED PROUD OF WESLEY CLARK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sigh!

Mr. General, sir, you are DA MAN!!!!!!!!

Mr. HANDSOME, WELL-QUALIFIED, CREDIBLE, PRESIDENTIAL General, sir.

Calling all other Democratic invertebrates: Wesley Clark has faced down some pretty serious stuff. If HE can stand by Howard Dean like the MAN he is, where the fuck are the rest of you?!?!??!?!!?

Howard is saying what needs to be said. Maybe a tiny bit rough around the edges, but nobody seems to mind that much when tom delay or newt gingrich or dick "go fuck yourself" cheney do that. If THEY can do it, then SO CAN HOWARD DEAN.

And Wesley Clark is UTTERLY correct in standing up for him. BRAVO, Future-President Clark!

[acmavm]

5. This man is so much more presidential than John Kerry ever was.

The WRONG MAN got the nomination last time around. We just didn't understand that Kerry would put on such a lame campaign and then, when we needed him most, cave like Al Gore did (even though he promised us all that 'all our votes' would count. He'd see to it (yeah right).

[Lena inRI]

15. You're so right. . .

Clark was and still is the whole enchilada and what pettiness in 2004 for the DLC/DNC to opt for Kerry's entitlement run over Clark as the obvious best choice.

Clark is showing those political types, who spend more time looking over their shoulders, how to look straight ahead as you speak for what you really believe in.

You go General. . .I TRUST YOU to speak up for us. . .thanks so much!
:woohoo:

[davidinalameda]

76. some of us did understand that Kerry would be a horrible candidate

that's why we didn't support him in the primary

and we voted for Clark even after he withdrew from the race

[sniffa]

6. oh, wes better just shut up

or we'LL keep Losing, aLienating repubLicans, bLah, bLah, bLah, bLah..

hopefuLLy i don't need this, but just in case: :sarcasm:

[Spazito]

7. I love this statement, it is very powerful in it's truth, imo

"(Bush) used fear, the fear of the American people to take us into a war that was purely elective,"

Purely elective! Those two words, imo, are an indictment of bush's illegal invasion.

[Justice]

9. And when he said fear, he paused for just a second

and let that sink in to all of us. The vision of 9/11 came into my mind immediately (Wes spoke of it just a second before) and you saw how Bush sold Iraq. Again, using the word elective - just powerful, articulate.

[jean]

10. Gen Clark should make his voice available online (audio) - he's a

powerful voice - succinct - I'd love to see links to his speeches online so we could pass them all over the country/world.

[Adelante]

17. Nice idea, thanks

I am going to suggest it to WesPAC :)

[yebrent]

33. Until WESPAC has everything up. Try here:

http://www.u-wes-a.com/


Lots of video and audio.

[jean]

63. thank you!

[krkaufman]

71. Turnabout opt-out

Interesting... from Myth #5 on the u-Wes-a site...

Shortly after Howard Dean asked General Clark to be his running mate, Mr. Dean said Wesley Clark was a "Republican." The facts tell a different tale.

http://www.u-wes-a.com/myth5.html

Yet Wes is one of the few *Democrats* to stand up strongly for Dean.

Glad I backed him in '04; just wish so many hadn't bought into the "Republican" bs.

[Spazito]

22. Thanks, Justice, for pointing out the fear aspect, it, too is very

important. I saw from one of your posts that you were actually there, I envy you. I would love to hear Wes Clark speak in person but, sadly, that is highly unlikely unless he were to have a speaking engagement in Canada. I have admired him and his views ever since he was SACEUR.

[Tinksrival]

8. This man is my voice.......

He speaks for me like no other leader. It brings tears to my eyes. It's so important right now in these times.
Thank you General Clark. You have never let me down.

[CanOfWhoopAss]

11. I would fight if Wesley Clark deemed it necessary.

Monkey Boy could kiss my @$$

[Coexist]

12. Keep it up Wes!

you make us proud

[fertilizeonarbusto]

13. Thank you, General! n/t

[fertilizeonarbusto]

14. delete-dupe

[ClintonTyree]

16. Thank you General Clark

General Clark hasn't been a Democrat all that long, (registered, anyway) but he GETS IT! His vision hasn't been clouded by millions of lobbyist dollars as some of our "Democratic Leadership" has.
I was hesitant in '04 to throw my support behind General Clark, but he's winning me over little by little. :patriot:

[Ishoutandscream2]

18. He's my man. Supported his failed bid in 2004

I think he's the guy for 08. Next time, he'll be better prepared and ready for the primaries.

While I support Wes for 08, I even more strongly support Dean as the DNC chair. He speaks for me and many others. He is the conscience of the Democratic party.

[Ufour20]

28. Thats ok, he didn;t even make it to Florida

But, by far, Wes is the best candidate this party has seen in a long time. It's amazing how Kerry got the nod over someone who makes other candidates pale in comparison. Wes instills such a passion in me (not gay!) that I haven't had for a nominee since Clinton. Let's make sure he is our next President.

[wakeme2008]

19. I hope Clark runs in 2008

I think he is the best so far.....

[Roland99]

20. The more I read of him the more I wish I'd backed him last year.

[HannibalBarca]

21. Why oh why did he not...

..get the nomination in 04, smart, tough, decorated (no swift boat veteran baggage either) and an almost unassailable record on security, 1st in class west point graduate, NATO supreme allied commander and a southerner, I swear sometimes Democrats seem to want to lose.

[Roland99]

23. Because he's not part of the "establishment"

Damn the DLC.


GO DEAN!

[KittyWampus]

31. Wes Was A Political Neophyte & His Staff Were Warmed Over Leftovers

he had the winning message and package but no strategy to deal with media.

It took him forever to get some generals to tour with him to counter the 'he's unpopular with military' crap.

[Adelante]

36. I think that's true

If there is a next time, I hope we get the best possible press handler we can get. I know Wes learned a lot in 2004, as we all did.

[Bucky]

72. Don't worry. You'll get another chance. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . (nm)

[realFedUp]

24. that's the way to butter your bread.

too bad the others didn't do it.

[TacticalPeek]

26. Nobody does it better.

:kick:

GET SOME STARCH!

[Bassic]

27. Is this guy in the running for the 08 investiture at least?

Sounds like a nice candidate, although it is much to early to tell who's in and who's out for 08 I guess.

[Adelante]

29. I hope so

He is thinking about it. If he sees the support is there, he will, IMO.

[Tom Rinaldo]

30. He's doing what one does to keep that option open.

Do note that Clark's speech was delivered in New Hampshire. First hand accounts from the event described Clark receiving several standing ovations from the crowd there.

[Texas_Kat]

32. This speech may be broadcast on CSPAN

My understanding is that this speech was filmed by CSPAN with an eye toward broadcasting it on "The Road to the Whitehouse" or whatever they're calling their Sunday evening American Politics show.

CSPAN missed Clarks smackdown of Richard Perle recently in front of the House Armed Services Committee. I bet they've been regretting it ever since.

It was a thing of beauty!

[Donna Zen]

42. the film your talking about exists:

ABC ran a clip from that HASC meeting during their Sunday morning show. We have written and called about this film...but surprise, surprise, surprise...no one knows what happened to the Perle v Wes smackdown.

I hope this tape doesn't fall down the memory hole too.

Fingers crossed.

[rateyes]

34. What do you think of this ticket?

Clark/Feingold.

[cascadiance]

46. Hey, beat me to it!

I had earlier been thinking Feingold a lot. With this speech, Clark moves right up there with Feingold! I think that would be an awesome ticket!

And... I like Wes delivering the message to the effect of...

"DON'T MESS WITH DR. DEAN!"

I can start seeing a new grassroots nucleus forming. It just needs a bit more organization, but now has a nice start. Dean really needs to grab onto Clark and others like him to push these other Dems in line or have them be prepared to ship out! The DLC cleansing has started!

[depakid]

35. Too bad Clark & Dean couldn't have put their ego's

aside and gotten together to take down the Republicans last year. Together, it wouldn't have even been a contest, and with their coattials, the Dems would at least have taken back the Senate- and probably the House, too.

[Bill ORights]

39. Clark & Dean? As in okra and apples?

That would work only if winning the election is all that matters, and not the issues involved. Clark has said over and again that we should carry on this war, Fallujah was the right thing to do, etc., etc. Dean said over and over we have to pull the troops out. Sure, they both have gumption, and that's admirable. I'd like to see some _Progressive_ democrats support Dean's gumption, however. Clark sounds just like Kerry: Sure, let's conquer the world, but let's do it efficiently and politely.

[Adelante]

41. Lies

Dean and Clark have the same position on the war and the occupation. We should not have gone to war in Iraq, but we are there. We have to pull the troops out once there is an exit strategy that does not put Iraq at risk for civil war.

What do you think Kucinich's fans were screaming about a few weeks ago?

And Kerry's policy is similar to Dean's and Clark's.

Stop dreaming.

[cheeto]

37. Wes Clark rocks!

Thank you Gen. Clark! A man with Clark's credentials speaking for Democrats is priceless. His support of the military is unparalleled. We need to keep Wes Clark front and center. Donate to WesPAC. www.securingamerica.com

[Pithy Cherub]

38. I *heart* Clark!

Wes is simply the classiest. I will continue to support him through thick and thin! And with CA$H!

Go Wes and thank you for being so gracious and out there with your support of Governor Dean. That sent a message to all the political lightweights about how it is done! Clark has serious political creds now! :woohoo:

on edit: capitalize DEAN! :) (Thanks WesDem:rofl:)!

[bpilgrim]

40. way to go General, show'em what LEADERSHIP is all about!

:toast:

peace

[Dr.Phool]

43. From a proud Deaniac

I'm rapidly becoming a Clarkiac!

Go Wesley in 2008!

[Adelante]

61. You can be an honorary Clarkie

For the time being :hug:

[yebrent]

65. I'm a proud Clark supporter since the draft Clark movement.

and I am rapidly becoming a Deaniac.

The media and others have attempted to pit Clark and his supporters against Dean and his supporters. This began with Clark entering the race when Democratic establishment were looking for an anti-Dean candidate. I'm still not sure whether Clark really viewed himself as an anti-Dean candidate? After all, Dean was the only other first tier candidate who like Clark, actively spoke out against the invasion of Iraq. They already had that in common.

Two years after I started following both of their careers, and over a year after the end of the Democratic Primaries, they and their followings are more alike than different. Clark and Dean both command media attention at every speaking engagement and are not afraid to go after BushCo. They both command attention from the Democratic establishment, with Dean as Chair of the DNC and Clark as the "go to guy" for the Democrats foreign policy stance. They both have extremely loyal followings that will do just about anything to support their hero. Yes, both are viewed as a hero by their following, which can't be said for many Democratic leaders. Six months after Kerry's loss, they both have the largest grassroots support in the party.

It just hit me today, why Clark and Dean and their respective and increasingly shared following seem to be on the same page lately...

THEY ARE BOTH OUTSIDE THE BELTWAY POLITICIANS!!!

The next Democratic Party candidate for President MUST be an outside the bestway candidate!!!

[morffin]

44. Were the Primaries fixed?

I think they were. The general election was full of fraud..what makes us think the primaries werent.

Kerry came back from the dead and took the nomination w/o any apparent support from the Democratic voters. Dean had the strongest support of any candidate and he was burried by the media and maybe by rigged voting machines.

The right wing wanted a middle of the road corporate hack like Kerry to run...just like they are shoving Hillary down our throats now.

A record number of voters turned out for the primaries...how many of those were reps. posing as Dems and casting their votes for the obs. inferior candidate, Kerry.

How many votes were changed by the Diebold machines...what makes us think the primaries were immune from the same tampering that took place in the gen. election.

[Adelante]

45. Kerry had the tightest organization by Iowa

That's why he beat us. They worked Iowa like the pros they were. Once Iowa happened, it was over.

I think some of what you say did happen, particularly Republican mischief at polls, but more likely, from the exit polls, it looks that mischief vote went for Edwards.

Unless you have evidence of vote tampering, voting machine manipulation, you do a great disservice to John Kerry and to Democrats, by spreading unfounded charges.

[morffin]

50. For sure

The Democratic Machine got scared by Dr. Dean and threw all its might behind Kerry.

I'm just thinking out loud on these posts..i'm not spreading false claims....just trying to cover all the bases and see if anyone else has some thoughts about the primaries.

I don't think I'm doing our party a disservice by asking questions and bringing up poss. reasons for the fall of Dean and Clarke in the primaries.

Just being curious is all.....it is after all one of our traits as Libs....aint it?

[Adelante]

53. If it's curiosity

You do your research. Start a thread on the subject. Post links to back up what you say. Have a discussion. My humble opinion :hi:

[morffin]

56. Thats what I was doing......and here we are talking about it

Mission Accomplished.....maybe thats the wrong choice of words

[Dangerously Amused]

58. Primaries rigged too?

Funny, I was just discussing this very issue a few days ago on another site - whether the primaries were rigged as well; whether the Bush admin. got Kerry as an opponent because (for whatever reason) they WANTED Kerry for an opponent... whether the primaries were mostly done on Diebold machines, too. Nothing against Kerry, mind you. I campaigned hard for him and I think he would have been a wonderful president. It's just that... well... he came out of nowhere to take the nomination, and then we saw what happened with the actual election.

So anyway, someone I was talking to on the other site was of the opinion that the primaries were indeed rigged... AND s/he provided links showing Diebold voting and primary election irregularities... I SWEAR I saved the info... and now I can't find it anywhere. Grr!!

But yes, the information is out there, and I think this subject is definitely worthy of it's own thread. Shall we?

[Iowa]

60. Yep, Kerry won here...

When we went to the caucuses we expected Dean to do very well. We were stunned by the result. In our precinct the Dean supporters (there were only three) couldn't muster a single delegate! Yet the Dean people were the best organized, the most certain about their candidate, and the most passionate by far.

This wasn't fixed - I knew all of these people at the caucuses and the same thing was occurring in other precincts. The Kerry and Edwards supporters all came with the expectation that they wouldn't have enough to get a single delegate, and we were all ready with our second choice. When we first split into groups, we were all surprised to be joined by almost everyone in the room (about half for Kerry and slightly less than half for Edwards). There is always a great deal of discussion at a caucus, and it was clear that everyone in the room was focused on beating Bush.

[yebrent]

62. About a week before Iowa, the media started using the "e" word...

nonstop in talking about Kerry. Kerry and to a lesser extent, Edwards became the electable ones, and Dean became unelectable. (Clark wasn't a Democrat according to the media, remember?) The media hammered this point about Kerry's electability with no mercy. I remember that right before Iowa, and shortly after I started hearing from friends in California and in other parts of the Country how Kerry seemed very electable. I asked them why? and they couldn't give a good answer, just that he seemed to be.

Most people underestimate how powerful the media can be when they start working in unison on an idea. That is why all this Hillary 2008 scares the shit out of me.

[cascadiance]

47. Don't forget about the "rigged" microphone too!

That being messed up forced him to make "the yell" so that those he was speaking to in the live crowd could hear him, even though it sounded like he was going nuts to the television audience.

[Adelante]

52. Without a doubt

That screwed Dean for following primaries. But he had already lost Iowa when that happened. It is the one of the most disgusting episodes in political history and still turns my stomach when I think of it.

[staticstopper]

51. Kick

amen amen amen! :thumbsup:

[krkaufman]

73. The primaries worked as Terry McAulliffe desired...

... by producing a candidate early.

McAuliffe changed the order/pace of the primaries in order for a predominant candidate to rise to the top sooner, and the change worked just as he (and the party powerful?) intended. Kerry's win in Iowa (possibly helped by Gephardt's attacks on Dean) propelled him to the nomination through followup early-primary victories, aided by M$M puffery.

One of the first things Dean needs to do is to restructure the primaries such that a larger percentage of the Dem faithful get a chance to speak for their preferred candidate.

[0rganism]

48. Why does General Clark hate America?

:sarcasm:

[JaneQPublic]

49. I'm proud Gen. Clark is a member of the Democratic Party (n/t)

[Seabiscuit]

55. Wes a true patriot!

Although I supported Howard, I also really liked Wes Clark. This man is a true patriot! I think Wes really knows what the framers meant in the Declaration of independence especially this little section:

--That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

[llmart]

57. This is the line we have to keep putting forth.....

that Republicans are bad for the military and have weakened our country.

[yebrent]

64. Exactly!! Do like Rove, and attack their supposed strengths.

[FrenchieCat]

67. Ain't that the truth?

But remember that the truth is seldomly reported though.....

[FrenchieCat]

59. I have always been proud of General Clark

and Chairman Dean in their manner in unveiling the GOP for what it is.


I say "F*ck" the Washington politicians and "F*ck" conventional wisdom.

Ya go.....Clark and Dean!
The reason that they have large grassroots support should not be of any surprise.

[neuvocat]

66. Indeed.

[DeanIsOne]

68. Sign the Howard Dean Speaks for Me Petition

Thanks Wes! (You've scored some real brownie points with me -- unlike Edwards!)

To sign petition go to:
www.petitiononline.com/Dean/Petition.html

[neuvocat]

70. Done.

[Johnny Noshoes]

77. Done

[The Animator]

69. You know Rove would paint him as not supporting the troops.

How many bases have been closed now?

[Gloria]

74. No pink tutu visible......thank god for Wes Clark...he's still my

candidate....

[Broken_Hero]

75. Good Job Wes...

I'm glad someone is taking a visible stand with Dr. Dean. In last years election Dr. Dean was my number one choice, and Gen. Clark was my second, and JFK was actually my 3rd. I'm glad that Gen. Clark is starting to state the obvious, and by that i mean, the way in which the military is being dismantled and being mishandled. If we continue on this track record of Bush and his followers, a draft is, as Agent Smith says "Inevitable." If a draft is inacted, which i think it will within a year, this country is going to go through some very serious challenges...I just hope someone/something doesn't let the draft happen, but as far as i see it now, its just a matter of time before i check my mail box and see a little letter from GWB....

[David Zephyr]

79. Wes Clark is a real man, not a cowering shit like Joe Biden

Clark 2008.

[morffin]

80. Imagine if they tried to pull a Swift Boat like trick

on Dean or Clark. I know they wouldnt ignore it and hope the American people and media would see it as the BS it was.

Imagine Deans reaction if Cheney had said that AQ would attack if Dean won.

I can see Dean going over to Bush during the first debate and asking him what the hell was up with the bulge on his back.

I campaigned like crazy for Kerry...shut my business down for over a month to go pound the pavement and knock on doors......I wish Kerry had shown me the same respect and fought harder.....or at the very least not caved in before the votes were even counted.

The thing people forget about Dr. Dean is that he is a New Yorker....we dont take crap from idiots...we fight back. People think Dean is some hick from Vermont, a mellow peacenick.....he's not, hes a pissed off hockey playing New Yorker. The repugs have no idea what awaits them.

[hopein08]

81. Thank you General Clark...finally a strong voice! n/t

[PatrioticOhioLiberal]

82. Wes not only has "starch"

he's got a spine! :patriot:

Something sadly lacking in way too many Dems.

:woohoo:

[CarolNYC]

83. Go Wes!

Not surprising that Wes expressed strong support for Howard. Anyone who's seen him speak passionately about the need for Democrats to defend each other has to know that all of the public "distancing" from Dean that people were doing last week had to be tearing his Democratic heart out. I'm glad he got the chance to voice his support.

Here's another article about the event:
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showa.html?article=56196

This whole recruiting thing and the possibility of a draft is really frightening to me...

This from the article:
"For the fourth consecutive month, the Army failed to reach its recruiting goals in May, according to the Associated Press. The largest of the three services, it made 75 percent of its goal of 6,700."

Listening to Clark speak about about this on the Ed Schultz show last week was really chilling.

[burrowowl]

84. Go CLARK!

Clark also voiced strong support for Democratic National Committee head Howard Dean, who has been criticized for comments attacking Republicans.

Go Dean! Go Clark! Keep on talking! Keep on walking! for a whole NEW BRAND NEW DAY!

PEOPLE OF AMERICA TAKE BACK YOUR GOVERNMENT!

Look at the Bolivians! Look at the Venezuelans!

68 cents of every buck spent for Defense (oops! Offense)! U$ DoD Budget more than the WHOLE WORLD OVER!

BTW we also have more lawyers than the whole world combined, many are of course CORPORATE LAWYERS!

[Cogito_ergo_Democrat]

85. Why oh Why didn't we nominate this man?

If we f*ck up and let this guy get away in 2008, we deserve whatever result we get.

This guy is better than Hillary, and can win. I don't believe Hillary can...I had the same feeling about Kerry.

[theHandpuppet]

86. My respect for Wes Clark only continues to grow

At least Dean and Clark came with their full complement of anatomical parts -- including balls and a spine!