Wesley Clark's campaign manager quits

[Newsjock]

Edit for story and link
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=177456&category=&BCCode=&newsdate=10/7/2003

By RON FOURNIER, Associated Press
Last updated: 7:35 p.m., Tuesday, October 7, 2003

WASHINGTON -- Wesley Clark's campaign manager quit Tuesday in a dispute over the direction of the Democratic presidential bid.

...Donnie Fowler told associates he was leaving over widespread concerns that supporters who used the Internet to draft Clark into the race are not being taken seriously by top campaign advisers.

more

[jenk]

1. what a great week for the repugs

they're having as much fun now as we did last week.

[BadGimp]

57. I was thinking the same thing

[BenFranklinUSA]

87. When are we going to run out of feet to shoot? n/t

[arcos]

2. who was the campaign manager? n/t

[DemocratSinceBirth]

5. Wasn't It Ron Klain From The Gore Campaign

NT...


How about Carville or Begalla?

[laruemtt]

60. if this guy was from the gore campaign

then maybe clark can get somebody who can actually win it for us this time.

[Democat]

3. Not good news

Maybe he got an offer from the GOP to sell Clark out and write a book trashing him.

Who is he?

[goobergunch]

4. /me rather suprised

It looked like Clark was doing really well. But this is a definite bad sign.

[catforclark2004]

38. I think that it's quite alright!

remember that this campaign is experiencing it's growing pains under a magnifying glass.

I'm not going to read so much into it. If the guy felt that strongly about it, he had the right to jump ship. I'm not bothered. In reference to the online...I think that General Clark's supporters have not jumped ship because of any of this.....

It's called patience....cheech.....3 weeks old and should already be full grown???

I am going to trust the General.....and let him make the calls.

[piece sine]

77. How incompetent of Clark!

The wheels just fell of his bus....he's a one-week wonder and fake Democrat for political purposes. I don't know one seriously progressive person that will have anything to do with Wesley Clark. This is just a game to him; a publicity stunt. We lose but he can still sell a few books and while slotting lots of those juicy speaker fees paid by corporate boards. Anybody need a job? Just print bumperstickers: "CHUMPS FOR CLARK". They will sell like hotcakes in some quarters. But not around here. Not anymore.

[FlemingsGhost]

6. Is Wesley Clark a Clinton/DLC puppet like the GOP says?

This turn of events doesn't help dispell the notion, I'm afraid.

[Dookus]

8. I think...

any candidate who gets Bill Clinton's support will not be hurt by that fact.

[BenFranklinUSA]

88. Gored, Grayed, and Wesleyed

There is a trend developing folks.

We need to stick to issues, and stop relying on "who you know" mentalities.

[MaidinVermont]

97. Davis may disaree with you there

Clinton didn't do too well with Davis.

[Democat]

9. Looking for any chance to bash Clark?

Why post right wing talking points on DU?

[FlemingsGhost]

17. I challenge you to find any post where I have bashed Clark.

Or any Democrat candidate, for that matter. (I even hold my nose and come to Joe Lieberman's defense on a regular basis.)

I asked the question simply because the RWers will be trotting out that story in spades now. Right or wrong, politics is ALL about perception.

Sorry if your sensibilities are shaken so easily...

[NNN0LHI]

27. "hold my nose and come to Joe Lieberman's defense"? Wow! What a guy

You deserve two stars for your bravery. </sarcasm>

Don

[FlemingsGhost]

30. Given the sh*t that is unfairly spewed here regarding him...

I have to hold my nose.

[NNN0LHI]

34. I read the same shit and I don't need to hold my nose to defend him...

...or any other Dem candidate.

Don

[FlemingsGhost]

43. You are a better man than I, Don.

Seriously.

I've been pig-piled on so many times coming to his defense, I've just about given up all together. Nevermind that the facts are in my favor. It doesn't matter to most folks here.

See what I mean, when I assert "politics is all about perception?"

[NNN0LHI]

45. Tell em to fuck off like I do bro. It works every time. Take care n/t

[Sterling]

62. Does it really work?

Do you change many people's minds about Joe like that?

[NNN0LHI]

91. Try reading the post I was responding to once Sterling

>>>I've been pig-piled on so many times coming to his defense, I've just about given up all together. Nevermind that the facts are in my favor. It doesn't matter to most folks here.<<<

The poster had indicated he had been piled on for defending one of the 9 Democratic candidates. I responded with tell em to fuck off, because I don't believe anyone deserves to be verbally attacked for supporting one of the candidates. If you don't like the candidate go ahead and say so. But jumping all over the poster will accomplish nothing.

Don

[Skittles]

73. sorry

I cannot stand Lieberman and I refuse to apologize. That pious f*** makes me sick.

[Fozzledick]

78. Ok, I gotta give you credit for that one (defending Lieberman)

It's more than I can bring myself to do!:puke:

[Voltaire99]

82. "Hold my nose and come to Joe Lieberman's defense on a regular basis"

More's the pity, then.

If you're defending Lieberman so doggedly simply because he's a Democrat - a rather fungible term, covering everyone from the valuable (Kennedy, Wellstone) to the lousy (Breaux, Z. Miller) - then perhaps you're not looking very carefully at the CT senator. But if indeed you are carefully defending his rancid values and right wing positions, well, then, you're just carrying water for reactionary conservatism. Why brag about that?

[FlemingsGhost]

95. Check his record and progressive voting ratings

Still one of the most progressive amongst Democrats.

It is you that needs to do some research, friend.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

10. We're Getting Our Asses Handed To Us All Over The Country

and all we can do is eat our own....


At least on a night like this can we call a halt to the internecine battles....

[cprise]

29. Clark doesn't qualify as "Our Own" yet. Not in my book.

He is still an opportunistic turncoat.

If he has just shed a DLC shill, then my opinion of him will probably change for the better.

[Closer]

32. Spot on!!

"He is still an opportunistic turncoat."

Opportunistic is the word.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

41. Whatever

I'm not a big fan of the Democratic Leadership Council but I'll take one hundred Ellen Tauschers and Jane Harmons over one Arnold Schwarzenegger....


The R's outsmarted us again... They embraced a groping, faded, ex bodybuilder and stole the governorship of Califoria.....


If Wes Clark said he wanted to be a Dem and could beat Bush I could give a flying fuck who he voted for in 1988....

[cprise]

50. I refuse to get stuck on a Brand Name like that

eom

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. It Worked For The Pukes

with Schwarzy....


with Reagan.....


with Ike......


The Democratic party is starting to resemble the hapless ensemble of fire fighters who always lose to the Globe Trotters....

But at least we're pure.....

[cprise]

65. Those aren't 11th-hour switchers

Even Arnold is a Strom Thurmond type, just more up-to-date. He's not breaking any molds.

Clark wants to focus on the money and the power and be a top-down guy. I have to appreciate he is sticking with some kind of consistency.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

66. Ike Was

Truman begged Ike to run as a Dem and when Ike rebuffed Truman hated him for the rest of his life....


And Wes Clark has voted D in the last three general elections which isn't too shabby...

[cprise]

84. He voted DLC and went GOP fundraising after Bush took office

Then he became a coporate lobbyist for Axciom, selling our information to "Homeland Security"... people who have a vested interest in repealing the bill of rights.

Dubious.

[ozone_man]

93. Yeah, that Homeland Security involvement gives me the creeps.

Not to mention the NED involvements and other secretive organizations. I would expect this resume from a Republican.

[bearfartinthewoods]

74. internecine ??? naaaaaa

we're talkin' bout the carpetbagger clark.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

12. Why Don't You Aim Your Ire Toward AhNold

or is he a little too big for you

<kisses>

Brian

[cprise]

22. Well they just addressed 'free-trade' today

...called it 'smart-trade'. The points spell out, in a fuzzy sort of way, a sentiment that labor and environmental standars must come with trade agreements. This is taking a page from Dean's book, and the wording I saw danced around changing NAFTA in a cagey manner.

I think this could be the source of the fallout. Now the question is: Who's zoomin who? Which one is the neo-liberal?

[Feanorcurufinwe]

7. That was fast.

If there were disputes, better to have them settled now...

[DemCam]

36. Absolutely.

It is very, very early. Perhaps the general is feeling like he's getting his "sea-legs". and is taking command.

Perhaps it is what is all too familiar to the general...a jockeying for position down the chain-of-command. the new recruits versus the old recruits?

Who knows?...but better now.

[frank frankly]

11. I hope Clark can regroup

I want him to stay on the stump!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

13. This Is A Great Night To Do It....

cuz it will be buried in the "Arnoldpalooza"


Strategery.....

[TacticalPeek]

19. Tactricks . . .

[DemocratSinceBirth]

14. His Campaign Manager Was Donnie Fowler

NT

[Closer]

15. More...

Fowler says the campaign was too focused on DC and not on key states and didn't take the online effort seriously.

Didn't the rest of us already know this :eyes:

[truthseeker1]

20. What?? Not enough focus on the states?

He was just stumping in Iowa yesterday. Saw him on C-SPAN and I almost jumped on board right then and there. He looked/sounded really good.

[Closer]

26. I was talking moreso

about the focus on DC (ie, Insiders) and the ignoring of the importance of the internet. I've heard lots of complaints about how the campaign had basically DUMPED the DraftClark folks/idea.

[StephNW4Clark]

33. Wow - and your sources are?

Considering John Hlinko, Josh Marguilies, Maya Israel and others are in Little Rock HQ, explain to me how they were dumped?

[Kahuna]

53. You misinterpret what he meant by "In Washington."

Oh. What a surprise!-----NOT!

He's not talking about Clark's physical person being based in D.C. He's talking about the campaign organization being based in D.C. FYI, Clark is hopscotching the country just like the other candidates. So now that you know, you can stop making crap up on the fly.

[truthseeker1]

16. Why is this automatically a bad sign?

Better to get those off the boat who aren't on board with Clark's strategy now rather than later. Everyone on the same team.

[salin]

75. those with concerns, as opposed to those just reflexively bashing,

look to the news as a nod towards the strategy direction of the campaign. Hits the split - shots called centrally from the DC experienced folks (more traditional - but some very successful campaigns) - vs. a more decentralized campaign with more on the ground in key states (or utilizing the net to organize in more states - but have less autonomy/centralized direction.) Arguments to be made for each direction. Personally I think the face of campaigns and strategy has GOT to begin to shift, as any dem cannot campaign as the GOP (and even we Dems) expect - given the huge funding advantage that Bush will have against any candidate - thus a campaign that changes the 'rules' might pull a bit of an advantage in that the GOP will have to expend more resources just trying to counter (since it won't be able to anticipate) the moves of said campaign. The DraftCLark movement suggested some inclination towards this direction. This move (it would appear) suggests movement away from that kind of campaign strategy.

[0007]

89. Perhaps your right!

Only time will tell, 'eh?

[fizzana]

18. Better now than later

If it's just an issue over the direction of the campaign it shouldn't be a big deal.

[demnan]

21. You know, it's inevitable that candidates will drop out . .

so don't despair when this happens, there are so many good candidates that you can expect this to happen. So you need to carry on. We will have a great candidate, whoever they are!!!!! :-)

[StephNW4Clark]

23. Uh, Clark didn't drop out.

But thanks for the support

[DemocratSinceBirth]

25. I Just Turned Off The TV

The media is dancing all over Gray Davis's grave and now this....

[FDRLincoln]

24. interesting

It will be interesting to see how Clark reacts to this. He has a reputation of learning from his mistakes.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I'm Despondent

Arnold.....


Now this.....

[Closer]

37. Don't be despondent

Dean's really picking up steam! Did you see that great article in the NY Times today on him? With the TWO accompanying photos?

Don't worry, Dem's still have hope. :-)

[bluefire2000]

40. Thanks!

For the pick-me-up for all the Clark supporters! How kind!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

47. If We're Hanging Our Hats On That

I'll take my hemlock without the sugar...

[Demobrat]

67. Hey, cheer up.

I'm not a Clark supporter, but I don't see this as such bad news for you guys. It's early days still.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cprise]

48. Translation: Clerk is non-populist Washington insider

Does anyone know what his average campaign contribution amount is?

[StephNW4Clark]

51. Get over yourself

Organizational issues do not change the fact that thousands of people petitioned him to run. No one said the Clark campaign would look like the Dean campaign. And last time I checked, people vote for candidates, not campaigns.

[cprise]

59. Get some glasses

I criticised 'Clerk' not 'Clark'! :7

[remfan]

64. Your observations re Fournier are on the mark

He seems quite happy to be the AP's WH stenographer.

[jburton]

69. Fournier's history of kissing * ass

Fournier covered * while governor and during the 2000 campaign.

Tons of opportunity to print good stories, but stuck by his friend *

Don't EVER forget this.

[Kahuna]

90. I sent Fournier a nasty-gram last week over his..

story about the DNC Fall Meeting. He wrote that Kerry and Clark clashed (over Clark's standing as a Democratic). He posted comments made by Kerry but failed to mention one remark by Clark. The reason he didn't post any comments by Clark is because their was no clash. Clark never engaged or acknowledged Kerry on the subject so how there have been a "clash."

Then Fowler reported that Clark received, "polite" applause by skeptical Democrats. I wanted to know if Fournier was watching the same appearance that I saw. We all agreed that Clark's speech was well received. Infact, Clark received several enthusiastic standing ovations.

Then to top if off, Fournier quoted Dean and Kerry supporters about Clark's status as a candidate. He did not include one positive comment from a Clark supporter, leaving the impression that none were present.

Clarkies: Keep an eye on Fournier and complain immediately if he colors his reporting in a negative way against Clark.

[even]

35. If Gore had done the....

same in 2000 he would be in the WH.

[NashVegas]

39. Wired Article from 9/26 I Held Off On Posting Lays it Out

I saw this when it came out, but there was already such contention going on, refrained.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,60577,00.html

With the campaign barely a week old, some movement leaders say they have yet to receive any communication from campaign headquarters in Little Rock, Arkansas.

That's to be expected as Clark builds a formal campaign apparatus, those leaders said. But an underlying fear is that the seasoned professionals Clark has recruited to run his campaign will run a traditional, hierarchical political campaign that won't square easily with the more anarchic and collaborative nature of the Internet-based draft movement.

"A movement is a movement, and it can't be controlled through top-down hierarchical methods," said Matthew Stoller, who publishes the Daily Clark Tribune e-mail newsletter. He had not heard from the campaign as of Tuesday. "Clark's pitch is one of dialogue about a new American patriotism, and is the campaign going to hold to that, or be top-down and message-based?"

Compare that to you-know-who's attention to their online base, to whom they allow so much a part of the process.

[catforclark2004]

42. I was part of the original Draft Clark...and I have no Problems...

We are having a breakfast in San Francisco for the group....and Wesley Clark will be in San Francisco....and we are to meet him on that day.....

Also, The online, although not perfect, has not been as bad as been repudiated.

Better to get stuff squared 3 weeks into the campaign than six months....

[bluefire2000]

44. But what about the Draft Clark leaders?

If they are the one's getting ignored, wouldn't *they* be the ones to quit?

[NashVegas]

46. Don't Know

But I thought it was interesting that, from the Wired article, Fowler was presented as one of the professional guys the "net-heads" were not enthused with.

[Katie]

49. If he's from Gore's last campaign then good riddance

What a lousy job those advisors did. Good sign for Clark.

[NashVegas]

55. Just the Opposite

It seems. MSNBC just said he'd been battling with the former Clinton-Gore folks.

[jumptheshadow]

52. A tough balancing act here

Well, I'll put my two cents in here. I got on an e-mail list after going to one of Clark's NY meetups. I've been concerned because the e-mail messages dried up a couple of days after his entry into the campaign. Okay, so he hasn't been in NY for a few days. But, somehow, with the primaries around the corner, I expected more communication.

By the way, I am not young nor callow, and I have spent a fair amount of time around media people. And I was very impressed with the creativity and potential effectiveness of the ideas that were tossed around at the meetup (while not, at this time in my life, particularly relating to the Draft Clark leadership). At the same time, the General has to work with managers whose experience he trusts. It's going to a tough juggling act, but his crew has to successfully integrate some of the Draft Clark strategies or Dean is going to pull away with the nomination.

Again, that's just my two cents.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

54. I Believe In Democracy

but as a person who has managed others for a living and been managed all organizations require a hierachial structure....

[jumptheshadow]

58. I agree about hierarchies

And I don't really know or am I in communication with any of the Draft Clark people. I am just observing that, from my remote vantage point, I have observed a deflation in the grassroots campaign. I believe that may hurt Clark. I don't want that to happen.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. It's Good To Get The Input Of As Many Folks As Possible....

but you need an organization with a hierachial structure to get things done...

What was Clark allegedly doing wrong?


Just as you can't have too many generals and not enough soldiers you can't have too many soldiers and not enough generals...

Also, this news will be buried in the "Arnoldpalooza"


And Reagan fired his campaign manager , John Sears, after losing Iowa in 1980 and it was the best move he ever made.....

[Julien Sorel]

72. He isn't running his campaign exactly like Dean's.

It's heresy, to defy the Dean World Order of campaigning. Never mind the fact that Dean is running his campaign the way he is through necessity more than choice.

[Khephra]

81. Lets see....

Dean --- listens and builds from his base of Internet supporters....

Clark -- from this episode doesn't care about the people who brought them to the dance.

Yeah, I'd rather support someone who doesn't support me.

:crazy:

[catforclark2004]

63. But wouldn't it be the campaign manager to call shots

on such thing as the Internet Grass root connection, etc...

Seems like maybe the person that did'nt do his job well was Fowler.

Maybe he's being held ACCOUNTABLE....Gee, I like that word.

[screembloodymurder]

68. My plea

Don't quit Mr. Fowler....run the internet campaign. Don't quit...show them the power of the net. The best campaign doesn't have a direction...it starts as a ripple on a pond and expands outward in all directions.

[Vis Numar]

70. Turn the screw

Donnie Fowler, 35, told associates he was leaving over widespread concerns that supporters who used the Internet to draft Clark into the race are not being taken seriously by top campaign officials."

If you don't get this, you are a loser.

[Gloria]

71. Isn't Chris Lehane another ex-Gore staffer who is on the Clark team??

Lehane had to be the absolute worst on-air spokesperson I have seen. I still cringe.

[robbedvoter]

76. Lehane is ex-Kerry's spokesman. Nice try.

;-)

[Vis Numar]

96. ex Gore & ex-Kerry & ex-Davis

Lehane is the trifecta loser. His partner is Mark Fabiani, and there is word that he's been hired by Clark.

[SharonAnn]

79. If they're not taking actual suporters seriously, then maybe

Clark really is the DLC candidate.

I'm getting really tired of all these operatives who "know better". I think the rules have changed and the old rules don't apply and that actual supporters are the real engine behind a winning candidate today.

"...Donnie Fowler told associates he was leaving over widespread concerns that supporters who used the Internet to draft Clark into the race are not being taken seriously by top campaign advisers."

[ozone_man]

86. Washington insiders are taking control.

It appears that Clark is not about grass roots, but is a DLC fueled corporate controlled campaign.

[bobthedrummer]

80. Think of the good of the Party above all else

I see neo-conservative dominated DoD history and Republicans all around Gen. Clark. Scary mole stuff. But that's just me!

[Pastiche423]

83. Uh...

that's me too.

[truthisfreedom]

85. Clark's got plenty of time to find a new campaign manager. settle down.

He's a fine candidate. We've had 10 solid generals as presidents before... and Washington was the first. Let him make his mistakes... he's only been running for office for a few weeks!

[stickdog]

92. Pulling up the grass by the roots, eh, Clarkies? (NT)

[bicentennial_baby]

94. Posting the same lame one liners

on different Clark threads?