U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa, ...

[TeeYiYi]

U.S. checking possibility of pumping oil from northern Iraq to Haifa, via Jordan
By Amiram Cohen

The United States has asked Israel to check the possibility of pumping oil from Iraq to the oil refineries in Haifa. The request came in a telegram last week from a senior Pentagon official to a top Foreign Ministry official in Jerusalem.

The Prime Minister's Office, which views the pipeline to Haifa as a "bonus" the U.S. could give to Israel in return for its unequivocal support for the American-led campaign in Iraq, had asked the Americans for the official telegram.

The new pipeline would take oil from the Kirkuk area, where some 40 percent of Iraqi oil is produced, and transport it via Mosul, and then across Jordan to Israel. The U.S. telegram included a request for a cost estimate for repairing the Mosul-Haifa pipeline that was in use prior to 1948. During the War of Independence, the Iraqis stopped the flow of oil to Haifa and the pipeline fell into disrepair over the years.

The National Infrastructure Ministry has recently conducted research indicating that construction of a 42-inch diameter pipeline between Kirkuk and Haifa would cost about $400,000 per kilometer. The old Mosul-Haifa pipeline was only 8 inches in diameter.


More: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=332835&contrassID=2&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y

TYY

[wurzel]

1. O what a good idea. The Arabs will feel good about that.

Tell me it is a joke?

[ElectroPrincess]

12. Just when you think these bozos couldn't get any more CRASS

and INSENSITIVE they go and do something like this! No offense, but now's not the time to bring this up. What's next, the confirmation of Bolton? Yikes!

[Pirate Smile]

31. Oh, there is lots of happy stuff going on in Kirkuk right. Big trouble

Look at this:

WP: Kurdish Officials Sanction Abductions in Kirkuk
U.S. Memo Says Arabs, Turkmens Secretly Sent to the North

KIRKUK, Iraq -- Police and security units, forces led by Kurdish political parties and backed by the U.S. military, have abducted hundreds of minority Arabs and Turkmens in this intensely volatile city and spirited them to prisons in Kurdish-held northern Iraq, according to U.S. and Iraqi officials, government documents and families of the victims.

Seized off the streets of Kirkuk or in joint U.S.-Iraqi raids, the men have been transferred secretly and in violation of Iraqi law to prisons in the Kurdish cities of Irbil and Sulaymaniyah, sometimes with the knowledge of U.S. forces. The detainees, including merchants, members of tribal families and soldiers, have often remained missing for months; some have been tortured, according to released prisoners and the Kirkuk police chief.

A confidential State Department cable, obtained by The Washington Post and addressed to the White House, Pentagon and U.S. Embassy in Baghdad, said the "extra-judicial detentions" were part of a "concerted and widespread initiative" by Kurdish political parties "to exercise authority in Kirkuk in an increasingly provocative manner."

-snip-
"If you could see our house on any day, you'd see that we're having funerals without the corpses," Ramadan said. "Children are looking for their fathers, wives don't know the fate of their husbands, and mothers are dying 40 times a day."

Ramadan said he had "anger in his heart."

"Tomorrow, I could recruit the entire tribe," he said. "I could block the street in Kirkuk and kidnap 40 Kurds. When you lose patience, you can do anything."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1549416&mesg_id=1549416

[jmcon007]

2. shouldn't the Iraqi government be deciding this?

[fob]

37. Are you "paying attention"? And using "critical thinking" skills?

Don't worry jmcon007, a restful vacay to Gitmo is on it's way for you.

/bush*adminplease

[Javaman]

40. One would think, if infact they actually did anything to begin with.

One more signal of American imperialism.
"oh we will let the Iraqi's decide their own future, only if it agrees with our own, otherwise, they can go fuck themselves!" as quoting the faceless US offical in control of Iraq and it's future.

Once again, the Clash had it right in, "know your rights".

[Roland99]

41. They *should* but, come on, Iraq is obviously making too much progress

they can't be worried about little details like this.

:sarcasm:



BTW, any takers on how many times a day this pipeline would get attacked?

[lumpy]

65. Yes, who's doing the dealing here?

The Iraqi government? Doesn't sound like it. Maybe it is true that the Bushies are into colonial expansion into the oil fields. Think so?

[IndianaGreen]

67. The Iraqi government is a puppet of the US

Whatever Bush wants, they will gladly rubber stamp.

Just how many army divisions does the Iraqi government has? And how long will they last in power after the US is forced out?

[Skip Intro]

3. We invade, murder, destroy, then pump Iraq's resources into Israel -

This fits perfectly.

[Coastie for Truth]

59. Reading List

Read some of these books to seriously talk about oil-----> I had to and had to teach out of some of them --->

1). Unit Operations of Chemical Engineering by Warren McCabe, et al
2). Elementary Principles of Chemical Processes by Richard M. Felder, Ronald W. Rousseau
3). Transport Phenomena by R. Byron Bird, et al
4). Introduction to Chemical Engineering Thermodynamics by J.M. Smith, Hendrick C. Van Ness (I TA’d from this book)
5) Chemical Engineering Kinetics (Mcgraw Hill Chemical Engineering Series) by J. M. Smith
6) An Introduction to Chemical Engineering Kinetics and Reactor Design by Charles G. Hill
7). Plant Design and Economics for Chemical Engineers by Max S Peters, et al (I TA’d from this book)
8). Modeling and Simulation in Chemical Engineering by Roger G. E. Franks (I TA’d from this one, too)
9). Molecular Thermodynamics of Fluid-Phase Equilibria (3rd Edition) by John M. Prausnitz, (neat graphical solutions in the edition I used)
10) Advanced Engineering Mathematics by Erwin Kreyszig
11) Thomas' Calculus, by George Brinton Thomas
12) Fundamentals of Physics by David Halliday
13) Physical Chemistry by Walter John Moore
14) Organic Chemistry by Daniels
15) Chemistry: Principles and Application by Michell J Sienko
16) Perry's Chemical Engineers' Handbook by Robert H. Perry
17) Oil Addiction: The World in Peril By: Pierre Chomat
18) An Introduction to Economic Geology and Its Environmental Impact, Evans
19) Beyond Oil : The View from Hubbert's Peak, Ken Deffeyes
20) Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage, Ken Deffeyes
21) Out of Gas: The End of the Age Of Oil, Goodstein
22) Prize: The Epic Quest for Oil, Money, and Power, Yergin
23) A Century Of War : Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order, Engdahl
24) Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy, Simmons

Bottom line - take home at the end of the day -- Oil Is a Fungible, Interchangeable Commodity (Pretty Much)


Crude oil may vary from field to field (viscosity, vapor pressure, chromatographic "spectra") and sulfur content. But, by and large, if you haven't optimized your refinery for a specific crude from a specific field - and if you have scalable and adjustable process equipment (stills, cat crackers, reformers) it's pretty much fungible and interchangeable and traded on a commodity exchange.

Because of this, a ship load of oil can change "ownership" many times from the field to the terminal.

For example, as politicians and journalists and bloggers frequently complain --a tanker of "Alaskan Crude" may be bought by BP for sale and delivery to Valero in Martinez CA, and after a couple of rounds of trading on the Comex that "Alaskan Crude" may end up in Shell's Refinery in Yokohama. But what they forget is that at the other end of the series of commodity transactions, an offsetting tanker of "Indonesian Crude" will be delivered and refined at Valero's refinery in Martinez CA, and the gasoline sold through jobbers and pumped as Unocal in Oakland CA.

Corollary to the above "Bottom Line - take home at the end of the day" Israel is able to "buy" crude from Russia - and that crude has been bought and sold on commodities exchanges, that specific tanker of "Russian Crude" may end up at a refinery in Naples, and a tanker of Libyan crude from Oxy may be delivered to Haifa.

[Webster Green]

4. OMFG!.......That will go over real big....

Is there any limit to the stupidity of these assholes?

I think not.

[Javaman]

42. Sadly, there is no limit. It's like the Veges of stupidity.

[99Pancakes]

5. Halliburton Rules!

[RC]

6. Tell me again whose oil this is?

Whose land it is under?
Which country is this oil being pumped from?
Who gets the money from this oil?

How come there is more than one answer for these questions? By rights there should be only one answer - Iraq.
But sadly that is not the case.

[Donna Zen]

7. This has been on the "to do" list since 2002

---at least.

surprised?

[Javaman]

43. Morons* to due list circa 2001....

1.ice cream, now I'm prez* I can have lots and lots of it. Fuck Laura!
2.do something that appears presidential, read to kids at school.
3.go on lots of vacations.
4.must find way to attack Iraq
5.must find way to get more oil
6.must find way to actually make a living, oh right, I'm prez*
7.must find way to piss off the whole earth.
8.must find way to take over the world!
9.have to get bicycle riding lessons...daddy was to busy, oh yeah, well bullshit on that, that old fucker, never let me have anything, never let me touch his guns...I digress.
10.must find way to have penis enlarged...I think I saw something on the internets.

[billyoc]

8. Unless oil suddenly became nonflammable,

I'd think it over, boys. :eyes:

[EmperorHasNoClothes]

9. Please tell me this is a joke!!!

I can just see the headlines...

Israel Attacks - and that is all.

[okoboji]

22. yep

can you just see it now? people lining up daily to blow up the pipeline....

unless the pipeline is routed through space and pResident Crackpot's death star is built to protect the pipeline from being blown up from space invaders it just isn't possible.

and the whole Iraq invasion wasn't about oil .... omfg ... they really do think we are stupid

[Javaman]

44. It would be a regular terrorist conga line.

Must blow up pipeline...must blow up pipeline...must blow up pipeline

[Lilith Velkor]

57. Now I got it stuck in my head

Jump in de line...blow up de pipe line (OK! I believe you!) :party:

[deliusmax]

35. Oil suddenly becoming nonflammable..

now THAT would solve a lot of problems. No more invading other countries that happen to have a lot of oil, no more ex-Halliburton CEOs becoming vice president, no more presidents holding hands with saudi dictators.
I'll drink to that! :toast:

[TexasLawyer]

10. We want to thank ISRAEL?

for Israel's unequivocal support of our war against Iraq? How about Israel thanking US for fighting Israel's wars.

Just a thought!

[shadowknows69]

23. more impeachment ammo

I know there are video clips somewhere of the admin. saying that the iraqis will have control over their own oil. this is theft pure and simple. There's no legal justification they could give for this.

[Zenlitened]

38. Oh, but it's the democratically-elected government of Iraq...

... that's proposing this idea.

:sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

48. Which wars would those be? n/t

[Mountainman]

11. Worse than oil for food, this is oil for nothing ! A bonus for Israel ?

Give me a frigging break.

And Venezuela's oil will be for who?

And Iran's oil will be for who?

And Saudi Arabia's oil will be for who?

I wouldn't be surprised if the pipeline gets blown up everyday.

There is no morality to the repubs period!

[Javaman]

46. So we invade Iraq, take their oil, now pump it through Israel...

and the Iraqi's get what in return? Oh yeah, a T-Shirt!

"We got occupied and all I got was this lousy T-Shirt"

[Zynx]

13. Oh that will go over well.

[TexasLawyer]

14. The Turkish connection is important

"In response to rumors about the possible Kirkuk-Mosul-Haifa pipeline, Turkey has warned Israel that it would regard this development as a serious blow to Turkish-Israeli relations.

Sources in Jerusalem suggest that the American hints about the alternative pipeline are part of an attempt to apply pressure on Turkey."

Once all that Kirkuk oil money starts flowing in to the Turkmen and Kurds, the region will be even more destablized than it is now, which is saying something!

And what are we pressuring Turkey for now? A few years ago, the US was trying to bribe Turkey to allow "coalition of the willing" forces to use that country as a staging area for initiating the Iraq war.

Might we be preparing to initiate another war in the area?

[hatrack]

29. And who controls the flow of the Tigris & Euphrates rivers?

Why, Turkey, of course.

Want to fuck with Turkey? Good luck getting a drink or watering your crops in Iraq.

[Javaman]

47. Why pressuring Turkey? They didn't help us...

In morons* pea brained world, that's enough to go and end years of peaceful relations. The sociopath* just doesn't get it or will he ever get it. He's the kid that was in school that lived in his famous fathers shadow and rather than rise to the occasion, he got pissed off at the world. He has a misplaced sense of entitlement. He has to show how tough he is. What a little prick*.

[daleo]

15. This would be a huge provocation

And no such pipeline would ever be secure. Only PNAC dreamers would even contemplate a U.S. imposed Iraq-Israel oil pipeline at this time.

The article says the Israel government requested that the Pentagon send a telegram to them, requesting they look into such a project. The circuitous nature of the thing seems to imply some hidden purpose (a request for a request), as if the purpose was to get some official correspondence going.

They say that the proposed pipeline, through Jordan, would put pressure on Turkey, as it is currently collecting money for being a transit point for Iraqi oil. Syria is mentioned as well, as an alternative (and even more unlikely route).

I don't know what to make of it offhand - perhaps it would make some obscure clause of a U.S. or Israeli law kick in, for an entirely different purpose. Perhaps some long forgotten U.N. resolution would be affected, that Bush could use as a pretext to make war on someone. With the cast of characters in power right now, one has learned to expect the worst.

[LynnTheDem]

16. And so many Americans still can't figure out why the world hates our guts.

:eyes:

[magellan]

17. Oh, oh! I know the answer!! It's because they hate our freedoms

...to rape, pillage and destroy them.

I hate those particular "freedoms" as well....

[LynnTheDem]

18. A lot of people seem to hate those particular "freedoms".

Can't understand why.

[Disturbed]

19. It's possible that the Iraqi Insurgency might not..

go along with this stupid plan.

[LynnTheDem]

20. That is definitely a possibility.

Of course, bush is banking on the Iraqis being too stupid to know it's a stupid plan.

Someone never told bush that Iraq had more PhD'd citizens than America. Of course, no one but bushbots are as stupid as bush. And I don't think the Iraqi insurgents are bushbots.

[DoYouEverWonder]

21. This has always been part of the plan

the PNAC plan.

This is what the whole thing is all about. Securing Israel's future and making sure Israel has a source of oil to meet all their energy needs.



April 1, 2003
The Pipeline to Haifa
Israeli Minister Dreams of Iraqi Oil

By AKIVA ELDAR

National Infrastructures Minister Joseph Paritzky has requested an assessment of the condition of the old oil pipeline from Mosul to Haifa, with an eye toward renewing the flow of oil in the event of friendly post-war regime in Iraq.

Paritzky explained to Haaretz yesterday that resurrecting the pipeline to Haifa could save Israel the high cost of shipping oil from Russia. He is certain that the Americans would respond favorably to the idea, since the pipeline would bring Iraqi oil directly to the Mediterranean.

The flow of oil from Mosul was redirected from Haifa to Syria after the British Mandate for Palestine expired in 1948. There were several attempts to renew the flow of oil to Haifa in subsequent years. One such effort occurred during the Iraq-Iran war in the 1980s, after Syria acceded to a request from Iran to block the flow of Iraqi oil to the Mediterranean. (Iran was then preventing oil tankers from moving Iraqi oil via the Persian Gulf.) The prime minister at the time, Yitzhak Shamir, proposed to Iraq to renew the flow of oil through the pipeline to Haifa.

http://www.counterpunch.org/eldar04012003.html

[Minstrel Boy]

30. Thanks for posting this.

I'm only surprised it's taken two whole years to make the news.

[TeeYiYi]

36. I'm surprised . . .

. . . that they're being so brazen. It appears that the BFEE Players have given up on the notion of even trying to be subtle.

US congressmen: Israel first in US Mideast policy
By ASSOCIATED PRESS

Asked why the United States was willing to anger Arab countries in favor of Israel, another Congressman, Rep. Christopher Shays, said simply that America is not a neutral player in the Middle East.

"We are Israel's strong ally," Shays, Republican of Connecticut, said in an interview with The Associated Press. "It would be foolish for people to think that somehow we are neutral."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1491761

See post #6 in the above thread. It's like DejaVu all over again . . .

TYY

[The Stranger]

55. They are brazen because they know that

this will never get to the MSM.

[Coastie for Truth]

61. But we are also Saudi Arabia's strongest ally

Here are some good reads-->

1. House of Bush, House of Saud : The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties by Craig Unger
2. Secrets of the Kingdom: The Inside Story of the Secret Saudi-U.S. Connection By Gerald L. Posner
3. Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy by Matthew Simmons

And, if you want some real political science expose's try Engdahl's A Century Of War : Anglo-American Oil Politics and the New World Order and Keay's Sowing the Wind: The Seeds of Conflict in the Middle East, and you might try Googling "Sykes-Picot Agreement" and "Mark Sykes" - I will let you put your own interpretation on that one.

[TeeYiYi]

62. kick

TYY:kick:

[Media_Lies_Daily]

24. That will guarantee making the Middle East conflict grow beyond....

...any attempts to stop it in our collective lifetimes.

[MaineDem]

25. Never underestimate the power of one ignorant person in a crowd

GW and his cronies have got to be the epitome of stupid.

I can't actually believe the audacity of such a discussion!

[Triana]

26. How arrogant, greedy, and stupid - and they wonder why

anyone would hate us.

HA!

They need to inventory their brain cells. They seem to be missing a few.

[Wright Patman]

27. Only you people in the "reality-based"

community cannot discern the brilliance of this plan.

Someday you will study our Machiavellian moves and gasp in awe at the sheer genius of PNAC and neoconservatism.

All hail our true leaders, the Likud Party!

[sattahipdeep]

28. 9/11 attacks - blocked evidence

A report issued by the US Justice Department
has boosted the credibility of Sibel Edmonds,
the former FBI translator who claimed a foreign
intlligence agency had blocked evidence
gathered prior to the 9/11 attacks.

http://www.breakfornews.com/Sibel-Edmonds.htm

[Bread and Circus]

32. That sounds like a really good way to piss off even more people...

Blow up an arab country and export their oil to Israel. What a way to win friends and influence people. Why don't they just put the Star of David on the Iraqi flag?

[bleedingheart]

33. I guess the Middle East just isn't unstable enough....

[leesa]

34. Well, that was a BIG part of the mission, was it not? Good luck with

preserving THAT pipeline.

[malmapus]

39. Just when I thought the administration couldn't do anything else

stupid....they go and raise the bar again

:wow:

[donkeyotay]

45. I wish they'd do something about the pipeline in Washington

The one that funnels intelligence, foreign policy, tax dollars, defense contracts and our elected representatives to Israel.

I wish I could believe that my country would investigate Israel's role in this maladministration, but I have zero faith that the FBICIANSA or whoever will investigate or that ABCCBSNBCCNNFOX would tell us if they did.

[jpak]

49. Ahhhhh, The Spoils of War

and, no, it wasn't about oil so stop saying that...

[thinkingwoman]

50. this is a trial balloon

to get Syria to come online with the idea of the pipeline going through their country without a war to conquer them too. If Syria would capitulate, only Iran would be left for the pipeline from afghanistan to the mediterranean (sorry, can't spell today).

[Behind the Aegis]

51. Turkey

Actually, I think it is a ploy to get the pipeline into Turkey. The US/Turkish relations are much better. Also, since Turkey is looking at EU membership, this may boost their rating in the eyes of the other American ally, Britain.

[thinkingwoman]

53. I could be wrong

I've been wrong before, certainly. But I thought I heard a couple of years ago that Syria was necessary and that's why the question was really Syria or Iran next.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. You may be right

I was just posting what I had read before. Syria was important, but it became very obvious, except maybe to Shrub, that they would not play along. One of the reasons the US proposed Israel is to provoke a response, which it has received. The other reason is that a pipeline already exists, one less thing to build, just needs repairs. However, Jordan will not allow it because it will be a terrorist target, despite the fact that they have a treaty with Israel.

[thinkingwoman]

56. I think I might feel better

if I felt that the Bush Admin had workable plans, even if I thought they were the worst plans in the world.

What bugs me so much is how it looks like they're wringing it all of the time.

sigh.

[Coastie for Truth]

60. That's a good point - N/T

[Eugene]

52. But Jordan already said "No" in 2003.

The Jordanian government feared revolution
if they allowed a pipeline to Isreal.
I doubt that attitudes have improved
much in the past two years.

This is just a neocon pipe dream.

[Coastie for Truth]

58. Oil Is a Fungible, Interchangeable Commodity (Pretty Much)

May vary from field to field (viscosity, vapor pressure, chromatographic "spectra") and sulfur content. But, by and large, if you haven't optimized your refinery for a specific crude from a specific field - it's pretty much fungible and interchangeable and traded on a commodity exchange <1>.

A ship load of oil can change "ownership" many times from the field to the terminal.

A tanker of "Alaskan Crude" may be bought by BP for sale and delivery to Valero in Martinez CA, and after a couple of rounds of trading on the Comex that "Alaskan Crude" may end up in Shell's Refinery in Yokohama and a tanker of "Indonesian Crude" will be delivered and refined at Valero's refinery in Martinez CA, and the gasoline sold through jobbers and pumped as Unocal in Oakland CA.

Israel buys crude from Russia - but after being traded on commodities exchanges that "Russian Crude" may end up at a refinery in Naples, and Libyan crude from Oxy may be delivered to Haifa.

This is a typical blogsphere tempest in a teapot.



<1> I know, I know, not strictly fungible, but as a first approximation for "transactional" purposes and "political" purposes, and not as a "design approximation" for designing and operating a specific refinery, you can treat it as pretty much fungible.

[IndianaGreen]

63. What a wonderful idea!

It is bad enough that we are caught torturing prisoners and evangelizing the newly "liberated" Iraqis, but now our wonderful Great Leader wants the whole world to think that the "Jews were behind this war after all"!

What's next for our Great Leader, steal sea shells from Poseidon?

[Behind the Aegis]

64. Didn't you get the memo?

Of course, that is what they want! There always has to be a "fall guy." Fuck having an exit strategy to an illegal war! But, if you do engage in an illegal war, make sure you can blame someone other than yourselves, preferably the Jews or Israel. See, the "right" will say "see...the Jews run Washington!" The "left" will say, "see...Israel runs Washington!" It's 'win-win' for the Shrub empire!

[Zhade]

72. The left doesn't say that. Bigots and idiots say that.

The majority of the left just calls attention to the suffering of both Israelis AND Palestinians, and doesn't dismiss historical accuracy regarding the land that is Israel, and do not feel particularly swell with sending Israel so much money while it continues to violate Palestinians' human rights. Likewise, the power of the AIPAC lobby and its inability to keep spies out of its midst troubles many, without it turning into some lunatic conspiracy.

Consistency requires those same people recognize that there are suicide bombers who target innocent Israelis, and to condemn all regimes that violate human rights, from China to Israel to Saudi Arabia to... a list sadly far too long.

People who are consistent in their support for human rights are not equivalent to the "The USG is actually a ZOG!" nuts. Not even close.

Just because you want Israel to be defended does not mean you should feel obligated to defend a corrupt rightwing bloodluster like Sharon. In fact, if you want Israel to be safe, I'd suggest he's the LAST person you'd want to defend.

Anyway, not trying to threadjack, I just wanted to correct your flawed assumption that all lefties out there want Israel razed to the ground. That's simply not the case.

Peace! :)

[lumpy]

66. The invasion was about oil !!!

Verified

[Zhade]

68. Yeah, but pointing out that Israel gained from this war is anti-Semitic!

Didn't you get the memo?

:sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

69. I see you got the memo. n/t

[Violet_Crumble]

70. Yeah, but it's a different one than the one you were talking about...

Check the wording, BTA. Despite the sarcasm in Zhade's comment, there are folk around who do whack up the But It's Anti-semitism!!! deflectors the minute there's any talk of Israel even benefitting from something like this...

Violet...

[Zhade]

71. Your meaning is unclear.

Are you suggesting such a memo should be sent out?

Or do you recognize I am correct in my intimation that there are those who cry "anti-Semite!" at the first criticism of Israel's government or the Likud party?

Don't want to take you the wrong way, as I know you realize suggesting the Israeli government hasn't benefited (or will benefit) from this war is, in light of this, not true.