Guantanamo inmates can be held 'in perpetuity'- US

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

For Christ sakes!!! Even the Nazis were given due process. The Bush administration's Guantanamo policy is an insult to all that is American.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Republican senators called on Wednesday for the rights of foreign terrorism suspects at Guantanamo Bay prison to be legally defined even as the Bush administration said the inmates could be jailed there "in perpetuity."


The prison, currently holding roughly 520 inmates, opened on the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, in January 2002 in the aftermath of the Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on the United States. Many of the detainees have been held for more than three years, and only four have been charged.

At a U.S. Senate Judiciary Committee hearing, Republican Chairman Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania said Congress should help to define the legal rights of the inmates at the prison, which the panel's top Democrat called "an international embarrassment."

Delaware Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden (news, bio, voting record) asked Deputy Associate Attorney General J. Michael Wiggins whether the Justice Department had "defined when there is the end of conflict."

"No, sir," Wiggins responded.

"If there is no definition as to when the conflict ends, that means forever, forever, forever these folks get held at Guantanamo Bay," Biden said.

"It's our position that, legally, they can be held in perpetuity," Wiggins said.



http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=615&e=1&u=/nm/20050615/pl_nm/security_usa_detainees_dc

[Inland]

1. But they aren't being tortured. Just imprisoned forever

with no means to secure their releases.

They are being treated well. Just imprisoned forever, incommunicado.

It's humane treatment. For being in a cage.

Is this America?

[Media_Lies_Daily]

3. They're NOT being tortured? How do you know that?

[Inland]

5. I don't. I guess I was giving America the 'benefit' of the doubt.

We'll imprison them forever, separate them from all contact except their interrogatories, use legitimate coercion like sleep deprivation, preying on phobias, etc, but torture...Unky Dick say no.

This is America, where we pat ourselves on the back for this!

[annabanana]

2. I saw that,,,, silly me , I thought that they had tried to dress

it up in prettier language.. but there it was "in perpetuity", and these non-signators "do not quality for Geneva Convention protection".

That's what the words were.

[Roland99]

4. Gregory Despres (wielding a bloody chainsaw) couldn't be held for 3 hrs?!

But we can hold "alleged" terrorists in Gitmo forever?

[Roland99]

6. This also flies in the face of memos that came to light a year ago:

Lawyer for State Dept. Disputed Detainee Memo
Military Legal Advisers Also Questioned Tactics
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A759-2004Jun23.html

Lawyers for the Joint Chiefs of Staff raised similar concerns -- about the specific interrogation tactics being proposed and the administration's decision that protections afforded by the Geneva Conventions were unavailable as a matter of law to suspected members of the Taliban militia in Afghanistan, according to a former military official familiar with the dispute.

"It was clearly the position of the senior leaders of the military that the Geneva Conventions should apply" to Taliban militia, the official said. Air Force Gen. Richard B. Myers, the Joint Chiefs chairman, "was very strong with the Secretary of Defense on a number of occasions" in expressing this viewpoint.

The official added that military lawyers attached to Central Command, which has jurisdiction over the Middle East, and to the Southern Command, which has jurisdiction over Guantanamo Bay, also favored holding military tribunals to determine the status of individual Taliban detainees and the Geneva Convention protections to which they were entitled.

The dissidents' complaints had limited impact, according to the documents and accounts of the administration's internal deliberations.

[fishnfla]

7. They will claim the "war against terrorism" never ends

therefore these "enemy combatants" can be held forever.

Its a self-fulfilling prophecy. It was foolish to declare "war" on the jihadists, a previously scanty bunch, IMO. It legitimized their cause, puffed them up, and now they are filling their ranks exactly because of the way this "war" is being engaged, and the way these "prisoners of war" (which they must truly called) are being treated.

Of course, Kerry try to point this out during the campaign, but the so-called liberal media quoted his thoughts out of context and he was vilified as soft on terror.

Question: when will the war on terrorism ever end?

[bpilgrim]

8. UNLAWFUL COMBATANTS is the same term the imperial Japanese used in WWII

to justify their kangaroo courts, too and we all know how well that went over.

Republican Sen. Jeff Sessions is calling them that today...

i notice how the term SHIFTS from 'ENEMY' COMBATANTS to 'UNLAWFUL' COMBATANTS in correlation to the HEAT they are feeling.

the MEDIA needs to pin them down on a term because 'UNLAWFUL' COMBATANTS is ILLEGAL and they know it.

peace

[shraby]

9. The Supremes ruled last year that the people in

Guatanamo have a right to a trial. The administration has been dragging it's collective feet since then.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

11. I recently heard a talk by one of the last surviving interpreters

at the Nuremberg Trials. (He was a German Jew who survived the war because he had the foresight to go to school in Switzerland, and after the Trials, he came to the States and became an attorney.)

An audience member asked him what he thought of the Bush admin's position that the Geneva conventions do not apply to the "enemy combatants" at Guantanamo.

He said that in international law, there was no such thing as the Geneva conventions not applying to anyone. However, he said, the U.S. was ignoring the Geneva conventions because it was too powerful to be stopped by anyone else.

He added that the U.S. was using the excuse that "always works": national security.

[bpilgrim]

13. they also had a policy of bringing PEACE, PROSPERITY & SECURITY to ASIA

GEACPS, which is very similar in execution and wording to our current policy in the ME.

i can't WAIT till we start hearing these kinds of parallels discussed in our media... it's coming, bet.

thanks for sharing :toast:

peace

[libodem]

10. I think they are embarrassed to let them go because most of them

are innocent. I think they just went over to Afghanistan and whom ever fought back with them became their captives. Many say they were sold. Who knows if 9/11 was even hatched from Afghanistan. I think that's just a bunch of propaganda to take us off the trail of all the Saudis they flew out of America on 9/12-13. They grabbed the terrorists support systems and flew them back to Saudi Arabia. They just wanted into Afghanistan to lay pipeline and build bases to protect the contractors.

[FormerOstrich]

12. What's the latest status on Padilla....

I still don't know why there hasn't been complete outrage from all sides about his detention in the brig. I bet he is still there. Anyone know?

[NYC Liberal]

14. Do we have ANY proof that ANY of the people there are terrorists?

None of have charged or convicted of such. So how do we know?

[shanti]

15. a gulag, yup

they were playing word games and deying that's what they really were, but the cat's out of the bag now. won't be long before it's OUR turn :evilfrown:

[daleo]

16. How is this different than the Soviet Gulag?

Well, the Soviets at least had the semblance of trials, even if many were said to be kangaroo court trials. If Solzenietchen is still alive, someone should ask him his opinion.

[Contrary1]

17. I donned my hip boots and waded through the slime at Freepland...

to see what they thought about their fearless leader's statement on Gitmo, and stumbled onto this pile of compassionate conservative crap. The Repubs are sure right about one thing. We definitely don't think the same way they do.


"...They may be summarily executed. While a trial is generally appropriate, it is not necessary for unlawful combatants whose status as such is obvious. As a practical matter a secret military tribunal holding a hearing which the prisoner(s) neither participate in or are aware of is probably appropriate. The issue determined at the hearing can and should be whether the prisoner(s) are more useful dead than alive. That would satisfy those portions of the Geneva Convention we signed, subject to exceptions noted by the Senate at the time, as opposed to the GC articles we didn't sign.

Then we should wait for an appropriate opportunity to execute them. It need not be a formal hanging. As an example of behavior modification, set it up so that one of them is provoked to do something he shouldn't while other prisoners are watching, such as throwing s*** or urine at a guard. Then shoot him on the spot, while the other prisoners watch. That would certainly have a deterrent effect on similar misconduct. They won't know that we've already decided to kill him.

Interrogation purposes - loudly tell the dude, in the presence of other prisoners, that this is his last chance to talk. Shoot him in front of the other prisoners when he doesn't talk. They won't know that we've already decided to kill him.

Or slit the throats of 5-6 of them, or whatever number is deemed effective, in front of another prisoner we're trying to impress. Some of these guys are really impressed by throat-slitting.

If one of them has a particular fear of drowning, or being eaten by sharks, take him on a boat ride with a bunch of these guys, tie them all up in chains with weights attached, do a phony random number means of determining who dies first but have your guy be last, or in the middle, demand that they talk and start throwing them overboard when they refuse. If your guy talks, he lives. If he doesn't, he walks the plank right there too.

Be cold-blooded about it. Once these guys are no longer useful alive, get some use from their executions. Use those to impress the ones you haven't decided to kill yet.

35 posted on 06/15/2005 4:04:57 PM PDT by Thud

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1423608/posts

[ninkasi]

18. You weren't kidding, Contrary1

Slime is exactly what it is. I truly believe that our current administration's policies are attracting every sadist in the country. No restraints, no respect for law, nothing...they are worse than the people they claim to be fighting.

It infuriates me, too, that after spouting such nonsense as provoking them and just shooting them, or just slitting their throats, they dare to pretend that their party, the Repukes, are the party of American values, and morals.

I'm sick about what's happening to our country. I'm afraid the rest of the world will decide to unite, and confront us. After all, we are the barbarians now.

[Iowa]

20. Incredible!

The writer of that piece is one evil, sick, sadistic, SOB.

[muriel_volestrangler]

21. Wow - I think that's a new low even for Free Republic

that bastard is practically drooling at the thought of a painful execution and the fear it instills in the other prisoners.

[Marnieworld]

25. That sounds like a nazi diary entry

Dear Diary,

Today I arbitrarily killed jews to teach other jews to obey me.

Love,
Sick Nazi bastard

I swear that freeper post is straight out of Schindler's list. When we wonder if it could happen here this mentality reflects that it most certainly can. Is it already?

[bunkerbuster1]

26. This Freeper's watched too many movies.

He also knows jack shit about actual, effective interrogation techniques.

It's been SOP in the Army, going back to WWII, that those very rare individuals you might happen to capture who are entrusted with vital information about imminent activities aren't going to cough it up under pain of torture anyway. The best information is gained by a trusting relationship between guard and inmate; you get bits here and there, and put together the puzzle piece by piece.

but it's not as cinematic as "slit the throats of 5-6 of them," I guess.

[NNN0LHI]

19. American inmates can be held 'in perpetuity'- US"

Jose Padilla.

Don

[muriel_volestrangler]

22. What do you call it when you kidnap someone, transport them overseas

and chain them up for their whole lives, just because you can? Yes, that's right kiddies, it's 'slavery'. Aren't you proud that your Republican government has such respect for old-fashioned values that it's willing to turn the clock back not just 100 years, but 150 years? I bet you can't wait till they make it 300 years, and we get to burn a witch.

[area51]

23. "help to define the legal rights of the inmates at the prison"

Arlen "Magic Bullet" Spector said:

"Congress should help to define the legal rights of the inmates at the prison...."

I think it's pretty clear that according to this nazi administration they have very few rights.

[rucky]

24. Maybe we should send Bush there when we get power back. n/t