Five US marines killed by bomb in W. Iraq

[NNN0LHI]

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/MAC617321.htm

BAGHDAD, June 16 (Reuters) - Five U.S. marines were killed in Iraq when their vehicle struck a bomb near Ramadi, in the restive west of the country, the U.S. military said on Thursday.

[expatriot]

1. add their names to some future wall... nt

[PuraVidaDreamin]

2. Bush is a War Criminal

[Skittles]

5. I really hate that expression "the wife"

why not "my wife" ? Just curious.

[expatriot]

23. you must have an old cache of that picture

i changed it from "the wife" to "my wife" a day or so ago. I used the expression "the wife" just to be cutesy amd folksy ... like "How are the wife and kids doing?" Hit refresh. or right-click and and "reload image"

[Skittles]

34. lol thanks expatriot

it's just.....I dunno, I just dislike that expression. You're a nice looking couple and your kitties are cute too. :D

[pdurod1]

7. Hey, I had a cat identical to Sonora (left)

Polydactyl to boot.

[expatriot]

24. she came to as a stray... a few years ago.;...

she is very close to being a full-blooded tabby point if not one.

g'night!

[RamboLiberal]

3. Insurgents Upgrading Explosives Used in Attacks

This is reported on a Christian News Website - but I think it explains the increasing death toll. 5 Marines died as well in a vehicle explosion last week. Looks like the insurgents are making even more powerful explosives. I really feel for the soldiers and their families. What hell they are going through cause this jerk in the WH and his PNAC buddies had a hard on for Saddam.

http://www.omegaletter.com/articles.asp?ArticleID=5523

Officials said Sunni insurgents in Iraq have been developing increasingly powerful improvised explosive devices, the leading cause of U.S. military casualties in that Arab country.

They said insurgents have produced shaped-charge explosives that could penetrate the U.S. Army M1A2 main battle tank and Bradley fighting vehicle.

Brig. Gen. Joseph Votel, director of the U.S. Army IED Defeat Task Force, told the Washington-based Lexington Institute that Iraqi insurgents have sought to compensate for the up-armoring of U.S. combat vehicles. Votel said Sunni insurgents have quickly learned the vulnerable points of even the most heavily-armored of U.S. combat vehicles.

Eleven U.S. soldiers were killed in IED attacks from June 9 to 11, Middle East Newsline reported. In one attack, five Marines were killed when their vehicle struck an IED during combat operations near Haqlaniyah in western Iraq.

[hadrons]

26. I wonder who allowed those explosive devices to fall into their hands?

oh, it was gay-marriage :eyes:

[tabasco]

51. The time to defeat the IEDs was when Tommy Franks ...

violated the principles of war by leaving major ammo dumps throughout Iraq unsecured. Franks was in such a hurry to grab the Baghdad Airport, declare victory, and go home and get his Freedom Medal, that he failed to protect our soldiers from these weapons. Many of the ammo dumps could have been secured with one squad, but Franks failed to give the order. In effect, Tommy Franks handed the insurgents the weapons they are now using to kill our troops.

Franks led his force into the most dangerous part of the battle and then abandoned them. He is an incompetent officer, a coward, and a yes-man for the criminal cabal. I have nothing but contempt for him.

RIP Marines. You died for A PACK OF LIES and because of fools like Bush and Tommy Franks.

[jbnow]

62. Franks? I thought they at least had a plan...

His Central Command wanted 380,000 troops.

http://www.freep.com/news/nw/war16e_20041016.htm
Franks' Central Command actually had an extensive plan to restore order and begin rebuilding the country, called Operation Desert Crossing, said retired Marine Gen. Anthony Zinni, who drew up the plan and updated it continuously when he led the Central Command. The plan was never utilized.

The same officials who saw no need for a plan to secure and rebuild a defeated Iraq also saw no need for thousands of U.S. soldiers, including military police, engineers, ordnance disposal teams and civil affairs specialists, whom commanders wanted to help take control in Iraq.

But maybe Franks even disagreed with "his" central Command, or maybe gave in to rumsfeld's arrogant demands way too easily and that was a failure equal to not planning the right thing to begin with.

I always blamed rumsfeld, cheney and feith who were the ones dismissing all the plans and warnings that came from so many. But maybe in the end it was Franks giving in that was the worst, he should have stood up for his troops, not bend to political pressure.

[tabasco]

77. Bush & Rumsfeld are responsible for starting an ill-conceived ...

and unjust war. I hold Franks responsible for the actions of Central Command. As soon as we invaded, the ammo dumps became Franks' responsibility as the ground commander. He failed to secure the ammo dumps and endangered our troops. We knew about the ammo dumps before the invasion. Franks fucked up and Bush gave him a medal for it. Our troops are still paying the price for the incompetence of all the senior leadership.

edit typo

[coalition_unwilling]

75. What is an IED? Seriously, I know what the acronym means

but doesn't that ("Improvised Explosive Device") somehow connote something a little demeaning to the Iraqi Resistance? That is, the U.S. uses bombs and mortars, but the Iraqi Resistance can only "improvise", i.e., less than legitimate military device.

What about them is improvised? As opposed to being deliberately constructed for the purposes of inflicting casualties?

[5thGenDemocrat]

4. Allow me a small digression here

I've seen a thread here recently about MoveOn's efforts to "save" PBS. I first heard of these deaths WAY before PBS' NewsHour tonight and, come 7 pm EDST, Ray Suarez et al didn't even bother to mention them in the news headlines (or, indeed, during the entire newscast).
I'm not oblivious to the fact that there is a real Republican dickhead in charge of PBS for (at least) the next three-plus years. And, if this is what PBS is coming to under his reign, I say to hell with them. Yank their funding. God knows I'll do just fine without Clifford the Big Red Dog or the rest of the touchy-feely crap that remains after the departure of Bill Moyers. Gwen Whoreful? Get out of here. Ray Suarez? A complete lightweight.
Sign a petition? No way == PBS can crawl into its grave.
Meanwhile, I mourn these troops deeply and professionally.
John
US Army (Signal Corps), 1974-76.
It is now two days, ten hours and 42 minutes to FUNDAY. God knows we need it now, more than ever.

[stillcool]

10. well said....

i can't tune in to any 'news' programs at all anymore, because of the effect bullsh*t has on my partly sunny disposition. If someones tv happens to be on, and while passing by sound bytes enter into my sphere, it can get ugly. Its a shame....that PBS turned the way it did, but in so doing they've determined their fate.

[reality based]

30. I'm tempted to agree but

it's really fun to ask my Republican legislators to explain to my grandchildren why they want to assassinate Big Bird, Ernie and Elmo.

[ninkasi]

6. This makes me sick

I feel so bad for all concerned, our troops being killed and maimed, and Iraq being destroyed, all to satisfy the ego of a sociopath who never did an honest day's work in his life.

Osama must be very happy; Bush is destroying this country much more quickly than any terrorist could have done. And I read earlier that the moron wants to give us pep talks on this illegal invasion, as though it's just an image problem, which can be redone, and then we're supposed to be happy about it.

This man and his thugs can not be out of office and standing trial soon enough for me. I only hope there's something left of both America and Iraq to rebuild.

[pdurod1]

9. I read somewhere today

that the top brass is saying this war is not winable. Yep and the pep talk is coming. And they're talking amnesty for the insurgents.

[Carla in Ca]

16. I started this thread yesterday

I didn't get much of a response but I think it is important. The commanders being quoted don't think the 'war' is winnable as things stand. For every insurgent killed, three take his place.
Now even some R's want a timetable for an exit strategy.
How about our promise to rebuild?
How in the hell are we going to get out of this horrible mess? How can *ush remain in office and resolve his horrible mistake?
He can't.

<http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3854081>

[pdurod1]

22. They DID rebuild...

the oil is flowing, bases are being built, money is flowing to the contractors (not to mention the 8.8 billion that's missing. Al Franken brought that up on Letterman last week). We're there to stay. Mistake?

We've been jumping up and down demanding the media to ask these same questions.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

33. The oil isn't flowing anywhere near the amount that NeoCons told....

...the oil industry they could expect. The "insurgents" have been hitting those pipelines every chance they get.

[PunkPop]

42. In other words, we've LOST.

It's just nobody wants to say it. The Criminals Bush, Rummy and Hallicheney (with a supporting role from Condasleezy AND a braindead media) lie us into a war of agression against an inferior opponent and can't even pull it off because they're so totally incompetent. Of course, most people here knew it was a crime from the very beginning but our voices would have been consigned to the trashbin of history had The Criminals been able to think past the dollar signs they saw everytime the subject of Iraq was brought up, and if they had planned their criminal adventure a little more carefully.

[Supersedeas]

72. democracy at gunpt is hard werk for chickenhawks--deadly work for our

bravest and brightest.

[saigon68]

8. "BRING EM ON" shouted the lazy AWOL CHIMPANZEE

AS HE WAS TUCKED IN BED, FOR THE NIGHT, BY HIS MOMMY.

[0007]

29. Even Hiller had a mommy & Holy men to tuck him in.....

[saigon68]

71. The guys with the crosses on their necks were in a state of euphoric bliss

When they saw the guys with the yellow stars on their chests behind barbed wire.

[dArKeR]

11. What is aWol doing at fund raisers, dances, million dollar dinners,

bicycle riding, smiling, vacations... shouldn't he be working hard day and night only to solve the Iraq slaughtering so that ALL our children come home alive?

[SmileyBoy]

12. Oh man, this shit keeps happening...

When will this fucking STOP???!!!

[Erika]

13. W doesn't care. He's corporate world king.

He'll do whatever is necessary to give his buds a profit.

[The_Casual_Observer]

14. The only possible concern that bush & cheney have about these

deaths is the political impact it has on the gop. They are lower than the most horrible child molesters/ serial murderers ever to creep along the face of the earth.

[IChing]

15. twenty

“A gripping, emotional anti-war ballad of the experience of a GI in Iraq”
–Amazon.com

Grammy-winning guitarist Robert Cray just released his new song about a soldier in Iraq, and it’s free download

http://www.truemajority.org/

[NNN0LHI]

20. Lyrics here

http://www.rosebudus.com/cray/TwentyLyrics.html

Twenty
words and music by Robert Cray

© 2005 Robert Cray Music, Inc (BMI)

When you’re used up, where do you go
Soldier
Mother dry your eyes, there’s no need to cry
I’m not a boy, it’s what I signed up for

When you’re used up, where do you go
Soldier
I can’t take the heat, and I hardly sleep anymore
What’d we come here for

more

>>>Rolling Stone (3/11/2005): Robert Cray Turns "Twenty" - Bluesman takes aim at Bush administration on fourteenth album<<<

http://www.rosebudus.com/cray/

[Straight Shooter]

49. Reminds me of "Nineteen"

That great anti-war song in the Vietnam era. I can't even remember when it came out, but it was on video and chilled me to the bone. It starts out, IIRC, with the words, "In World War II, the average soldier's age was 26. In Vietnam, it was 19."

I'll never forget it.

Now we have men in their 40s and 50s over there, too, dying for a rabid squatter in the White House. Five more now, and I always think about those unguarded explosives.

Bring them home.

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. and five more families that will mourn because this war did not

have to happen

[oblivious]

18. It ain't right. None of this is right.

[dArKeR]

19. I'm waiting for the story to be buried in the 5th paragraph of an

article titled, "Insurgent captured"

[Erika]

21. How effn sad

But Bushies don't have their kids out there so they just close their eyes.

[deadparrot]

25. RIP.

...

What an AWFUL way to start out the day. :puke:

[Flagg]

27. Six U.S. Troops Killed in Western Iraq

Six U.S. Troops Killed in Western Iraq

By FRANK GRIFFITHS, Associated Press Writer 19 minutes ago

BAGHDAD, Iraq - A roadside bomb attack killed five U.S. Marines and gunfire killed an American sailor in a western Iraqi town, the U.S. military and Iraqi officials said Thursday, as an upsurge in rebel violence battered American forces.
ADVERTISEMENT

The Marines died Wednesday after their vehicle was attacked near Ramadi, 70 miles west of Baghdad, the military said. Officials in Ramadi had reported a roadside bomb blast in the pre-dawn hours.

A sailor attached to the Marines' unit, the 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force, was also killed Wednesday in Ramadi by gunfire, the military said.

http://p230.news.mud.yahoo.com/s/ap/iraq;_ylt=AiztDBzRU21mpFLykyOFQXFX6GMA;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

[alcuno]

48. May they all find peace with God.

Simply heartbreaking.

[Roland99]

56. You know what else pisses me off?? The fake patriots voting down articles

like this.

729 votes and it's at 2 1/2 stars. I guess the Freeper assholes really don't give a damn about our troops.


Damned fake patriots!

:mad:

[0007]

28. Let's see, what was cheney saying the other day about the

insurgency being about petered out?

[leftchick]

31. 47 DEAD in 16 Days. 1714 DEAD for LIES.....

http://icasualties.org/oif/

RIP .... you died for a LIE. God Forgive AmeriKa.

:cry:

[Halliburton]

32. WHA?

But Fox and Dick Cheney told me that the insurgency was in its last throes. Must show that their getting desperate. Yeah, that seems logical.

[Gunit_Sangh]

35. Bomb near Ramadi kills 5 U.S. Marines

Restaurant bombing leaves 23 Iraqi soldiers dead

Thursday, June 16, 2005 Posted: 5:01 AM EDT (0901 GMT

AL-ANBAR PROVINCE, Iraq (CNN) -- Five U.S. Marines were killed by a bomb near Ramadi, according to a U.S. military source.

The Marines -- assigned to 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward) -- were killed Wednesday when a roadside bomb struck their vehicle during a combat operation, according to the military.

Also, a U.S. sailor died of wounds suffered when he was hit by enemy small-arms fire Wednesday during a combat operation in Ramadi, the U.S. military said.

The sailor also was assigned to 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), the military said.

Rest of story
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/meast/06/16/iraq.main/index.html

[rodeodance]

36. 1,713.

.......These latest deaths bring to 47 the number of U.S. troops killed in Iraq during the month of June. The number of American troops killed since the Iraq war began is at 1,713.

[Dhalgren]

37. 1714 now. This is beyond my ability to grasp.

I just cannot, for the life of me, comprehend this country; what in the names of all the gods are we doing?

[kurtyboy]

45. 1904--Afghanistan and Iraq combined US fatalities

http://icasualties.org/oef/

190 now lost in Afghanistan, and the bombing continues to escalate there as well:

Four U.S. soldiers hurt in Afghanistan bomb attack

A bomb exploded yesterday near a U.S. military vehicle on a road in central Afghanistan, wounding four U.S. troops and their Afghan interpreter, the U.S. military said.

The attack occurred during a routine patrol in support of an ongoing operation south of Ghazni, south of the capital, said spokesman Lt. Col. Jerry O'Hara.

On Monday, a suicide bomber wounded four U.S. troops in an assault on a U.S. military convoy just west of the city. O'Hara said three bombs were discovered and destroyed in other locations Monday.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002336447_wdig15.html

[Halliburton]

38. They must be getting desperate...

This is a sign that they are being defeated! We're finally turning the corner!!

[BiggJawn]

39. Yeah, we've turned the corner, all right-ee.....

But we went right when we should have gone left.

They know they're losing. That's why they're trying to kill as many of our troops as they can...I can't wait for Rumsferatu to declare that we will claim victory and come home when the butcher's bill hits 60,000...

Bush gotta do Nixon 2,000 better, y'know. Looks better in the history books....

[Tesha]

40. Good thing the "Mission" was "Accomplished", ehh? (NT)

[Doctor_J]

41. Still more evidence that they're in their Death Throes

I sure hope * and all of his cabal face justice at some point

[Zerex71]

43. Mission Accomplished!

[katinmn]

44. Suddently we're losing A LOT of Marines

Is it because they are moving them into positions previously held by Army and National Guard?

[stanwyck]

54. Possibly

the Marines and the Army have the most casualties. The Marines typically are the "first in" during a war or invasion. (My son is a Marine -- he's in Iraq now -- his second tour.) But you're right. Troops are being moved constantly. My son is hardly ever at a base. He's everywhere. He gets assigned to wherever it's determined he's needed. This "war" is about trying to stop insurgents who could be anywhere at any time. Everyone over there is in danger...and in a combat situation. Because it's total chaos.
Every time I see a thread like this I wonder if my son is one of the casualties. I don't want that knock on my door. Or the phone call.
But, of course, some other mother and father is getting that visit, aren't they? Every day.

[katinmn]

59. Oh, Stanwyck. I bet you haven't had a good night's sleep

in years.

I pray for your son's safe return. When is he scheduled to come home?

I know your heart breaks for the Gold Star moms and all the families.

Your comment about not wanting that knock on the door. :hug: It's awful to be worried 24/7.

I hope peace comes as soon as possible.

[stanwyck]

61. thanks. DU people are the most supportive

of the troops. I think the right wing folks just believe the Bushian platitudes without looking at the reality. People here read each day about the casualties. They want to know the truth. No "just tell me the good stuff" about rebuilding schools and women getting to vote. Face up that women are now more afraid to move about in Iraq. And they're still without the necessities. And we still don't really know who the enemy is or why.
We're in a mess and the DU folks have the fortitude to face it.
I find people here very thoughtful and concerned.
It's the people who just slap a decal on their SUV and drive away who bother me. They just don't want to know...they have "other priorities."

[pie]

46. And they died for nothing

[catmandu57]

47. I thought I was in a time warp this morning

I boot up see the headline five marines killed by roadside bomb, and thought wait a minute didn't I read this last week? So, I check the date, read the story, and hang my head in shame.

I'm so fucking ashamed to be an american right now, we're in an illegal war of aggression to prove that the monkeyboy* has a bigger one than poppy.
We're in an illegal war so that snarlin dick* can steal and make himself and all his cronies richer.
We're in an illegal war because a whole bunch of son of a bitches had a fucking wet dream about america becoming an empire and ruling the world.

We're in an illegal war because no fucking body would listen to the people who said no, and it appears that nobody is going to give a flying fuck until it affects them personally.

[Doctor_J]

50. It's a little embarrassing

that we weren't able to keep the most hated man on earth out of office, but, in fact, with the media whoring for him incessantly, we were doomed from the start. I would like to think that we did our best, and as soon as * leaves office, the healing will be fast and severe.

[ckramer]

52. The news radio said this morning they were using

some kind of new explosives that can penetrade the heavy armor.

Just wonder if any superpowers were aiding the insurgents behind the scenes.

[Roland99]

53. Yeah...I heard that a few days ago. The resistance has adapted.

The mighty Soviet Union couldn't win in Afghanistan and the same mindset is ruining our soldiers' lives in Iraq.

[ckramer]

55. The bullets too that can penetrade

read this

Lance Cpl. Mark Drye suffered a bruised chest and lungs and broken ribs on Tuesday when a bullet broke the chest plate in his body armor.

[Serial Mom]

64. We are always one step behind ...

They penetrated our airports 9/11 and now, 4 years later and millions (probably billions by now) of dollars later creating another government agency, homeland security (yeah right), we really aren't any safer.

And when they penetrate our humvees, then we add armour to them.

And when they penetrate our armour, then we might do something.

SSDD from this administration!

[donkeyotay]

57. Remember this mother's words

Sheehan ridiculed Bush for saying that it's "hard work" comforting the widow of a soldier who's been killed in Iraq.

"Hard work is seeing your son's murder on CNN one Sunday evening while you're enjoying the last supper you'll ever truly enjoy again. Hard work is having three military officers come to your house a few hours later to confirm the aforementioned murder of your son, your first-born, your kind and gentle sweet baby. Hard work is burying your child 46 days before his 25th birthday. Hard work is holding your other three children as they lower the body of their big (brother) into the ground. Hard work is not jumping in the grave with him and having the earth cover you both," she said.

Since her son's death, Sheehan has made opposition to the Bush administration a full-time job.

"We're watching you very carefully and we're going to do everything in our power to have you impeached for misleading the American people," she said, quoting a letter she sent to the White House. "Beating a political stake in your black heart will be the fulfillment of my life ... ," she said, as the audience of 200 people cheered.

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/news/local/1188862...

[dArKeR]

58. 2.4 Stars, 740 votes. What kind of feces would rate this story anything

but a 5 Star? At least to give respect to the fallen soldiers sacrifice to their country and their grieving families!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050616/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq;_ylt=AnoWkwEMNeFE4zGmQmY2s3Ws0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--

[Flagg]

67. I believe they call themselves freepers.

[saigon68]

73. Bonjour Flagg

Bienvenue En arrière

[cliss]

60. This is really worrisome.

The article says,..."the insurgents (= Iraqis) have inflicted such a high death toll on marines in the same area in a single blast; it strengthens the impression that guerrillas have developed more sophisticated bombing techniques".

This is a fairly new development. I remember reading about 9 months ago, how an Iraqi-made IED had penetrated a Bradley fighting vehicle. I believe the vehicle ran over the charge, and it ended up killing 2 troops.

Another article mentioned that Iraqis have changed the shape of their IED's so they go right through the floor of the vehicle.

This is amazing on several levels. It shows that a) we're very vulnerable in Iraq. Even Bradley fighting vehicles. Ever seen a photo of one of those? They're massive. Do we even have something more powerful than that?

b) I'm not sure we can arm the vehicles for this sort of bomb. Recall a few months ago, when US troops reamed RumsFailed for not arming their vehicles. They complained that they had to "root through the garbage dump" to find stuff. But that was for the sides, not the bottom.

Disaster, that's all I can make of it.

[HannibalBarca]

66. Well

The M1A1 abrams tank is a monster, if they can penetrate that then no one is safe anymore. I have to wonder though where are these people getting such powerful explosives and more so the know how to develop and deploy them. Obviously they are obtaining funding and support from somewhere.
My sincerest condolences to the families of those brave men.

[catmandu57]

76. Where are they getting it?

Fuck, it was there. Don't you recall the stories about how we left ammo dumps ungaurded? 380 tonnes at one alone. We disbanded their army, and are now trying to rebuild one.
The former soldiers know where the unsecured ammo dumps are, no doubt there is some foreign fighters and aid coming in.
Putting on the tinfoil for a moment I imagine the former soviets would enjoy seeing some payback after we aided the Afghans against them.
this can only end badly, if we're lucky it will only be bad for us, if the slobbering, unthinking neocons and domionists have their way it's going to end badly for the whole world.

[lebkuchen]

63. Bush says it's better to have these men dead

than to have Saddam in power.

[uppityperson]

65. Five Marines Killed By IED In AR Ramadi-- 1715

CAMP FALLUJAH, Iraq – Five Marines assigned to 2nd Marine Division, II Marine Expeditionary Force (Forward), were killed in action June 15 when their vehicle hit an improvised explosive device. The incident took place during combat operations near Ar Ramadi, Iraq.

The names of the deceased are being withheld pending notification of next of kin.
-------------------------------------

One thousand fifteen
1715

[mistertrickster]

68. Six U.S. Servicemen Die in Iraq Violence (AP spins admin lie)

On edit, here's the link--

http://isp.netscape.com/lcisp/home/story.jsp?flok=FF-APO-1107&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050616%2F1208002109.htm&sc=1107&floc=isp-08&related=off

Six U.S. Servicemen Die in Iraq Violence
By FRANK GRIFFITHS

BAGHDAD, Iraq (AP) - Bombing and shooting attacks west of Baghdad killed six U.S. troops, and a suicide car bomber slammed into a truck carrying Iraqi policemen near the airport Thursday, killing at least eight and wounding 25 - the latest wave of violence aimed at derailing Iraq's advancing political process.

*******

Check that last sentence in the lead--this journalist

1. can READ THE INSURGENTS' MINDS! He "knows" why they commit terror attacks against Americans. They hate us for our freedom.

2. assumes the the political process is "advancing." Advancing toward what--civil war?

After two and a half years of occupying Iraq with no functional gov't, one could draw the much more obvious conclusion that insurgents killing Americans is a natural response to wanting occupiers out of their country. In fact that is what a recent article in the NY Times ("Blowing Up an Assumption") explicitly stated--suicide bombers are not religious terrorists, they are nationalists who want an occupier out of their terrority (Tamils in Sri Lanka, Palestinians in Israel, Osama bin Laden and the US bases in Saudi Arabia and now Iraqis).

This AP exactly mirrors the WH spin--"the terrorism proves we're making progress."

How much more of this progress can we stand?

[Coventina]

69. Don't worry, now that some conservatives are speaking against the war

all will be well.

:sarcasm:

[msmcghee]

70. They want us out?

I keep hearing that here at DU. But it makes more sense to me that they are happy we are there.

The Iraqi insurgents can build their movement toward being in control militarily when we pull back or leave - so their faction can have a head start in the coming civil war.

The non-Iraqi al Queda insurgents see this as a great way to recruit, train, practice their bomb-making skills, attract donations from wealthy Arabs and tie us up in a quagmire and humiliate us.

There's something in this for everyone who hates the US - which is a group growing in numbers every day. I think they're quite happy with us there.

[katinmn]

74. I just attended a meeting with two Iraqi men here representing

about 400,000 Iraqis who belong or belonged to worker's unions.(see my sig line)

Believe me, they want us out. They say it's the first and only thing that will bring stability to Iraq and stop the killing!

They would like the US to be part of a UN group supporting the progressive movement in Iraq, but they want us out.

Many of the insurgents were in Saddam's Army which our leaders in their stupidity turned loose after the invasion. These are unemployed former soldiers with no love for the U.S. Now rank and file Iraqis are joining them since they have few or no jobs, healthcare, water, electricity and on and on.

Please don't believe Bush's bullshit.

[karlrschneider]

78. 6 U.S. Servicemen die in Iraq violence -sorry if dupe, didn't see it

http://apnews1.iwon.com//article/20050616/D8AOQ7TO0.html

edit: just now saw Don posted what must be the same story except his said 5.......not sure what the facts are yet.

[Goldmund]

79. So far, deadliest month since the Fallujah offensive in Apr 2004

[nadinbrzezinski]

80. but things are improving, just listen to the fantasy folks

[ananda]

81. that, plus..

A pipeline was exploded in Baghdad.

And they're sending 2200 Pennsylvania Army NG troops to Iraq now.

We're way past drip drip and plop plop. It's a veritable bloodgusher now.

Sue

[REACTIVATED IN CT]

82. Last night on the commuter train

an older woman told me that her friend's husband in the reserves got called up for 18 months in Irag. He is 52 years old. I know this woman is a big * supporter. All I could say was, "we can only pray that it won't last another 18 months".

[cliss]

83. Are these the same as NNNOLHI's thread?

Or are these different?

OMG

[maddezmom]

84. they are the same

in this article they've including the sailor in the total, in NNNOLHI's it's 5 Marines but further down the thread it lists the sailor. :(

[RalphReedsWreckedEm]

85. This won't be popular, but, here goes.....

I am beginning to wonder about just how sympathetic I can be about this anymore...

These Soldiers and Marines know quite clearly what they are involved in. They have had years to understand why they are over there.

They have seen with their own eyes the dead civilians and the horribly wounded comrades.

They have seen the hatred of the Iraqi people for our country and for their actions over there.

They have seen the bodies of their own comrades being hauled away.

And for what?

They are not protecting our country. They are not protecting anything.

God help me, but I can only feel sorry anymore for the innocent people left behind. The men and women of our Armed Forces have a moral obligation to refuse to comply with this illegal "war." If they do not, knowing what we all know now, I can only say that while I pray they will not suffer it, their fates are self-inflicted.

Go ahead. Flame me. I don't care. I served in the U.S. Army - and I have experienced and seen enough that I would never contribute to an immoral and evil military campaign such as this one.

[ElectroPrincess]

86. No You don't make sense to this Veteran ...

I would flame you, but it would just be "a distraction" to the task at hand.

Right now it's MUCH MORE important that we put our views on "militarism" aside, and unite as AMERICANS who want an prompt end to this illegal and immoral occupation. It's time to declare victory and get the hell out. Every day I hear "stay the course" it reminds me of all the delays and lies that kept us in Vietnam.

Bring the Troops Home Now!

[stanwyck]

87. this is what my son told me

he's not there to "spread freedom". He gave up on that the first week he was there the first time (He's on his second tour -- USMC). He's there to protect his buddies. Probably no different than the soldiers in Viet Nam. They knew, also, the politics were all screwed up and people were dying. My son doesn't even know who the enemy is or why. But he wants to try to get back home with his fellow Marines.