PETA possibly involved with dead dogs

[SkyeTerrier]

http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/articles/2005/06/16/news/anews1.txt

AHOSKIE - A month-long investigation into animal cruelty has resulted in a pair of arrests, individuals possibly linked with PETA (People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals).

On Wednesday, Andrew Benjamin Cook, 24, of 504 Tree Top Street, Virginia Beach, Va. and Adria Joy Hinkle, 27, of 1602 Claremont Ave., Norfolk, Va. were each charged with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty and eight misdemeanor counts each of illegal disposal of dead animals.

...snip...

Full story at the link above.

[Endangered Specie]

1. In unrelated news: PETA members frequently use electricity...

something that was invented and made safe in part to its "testing" on hundreds of animals.

is this
a) Ironic
b) Hypocritical
c) Both

[pie]

21. thank you

[trebizond]

68. how about "d) irrelevant"

[The Stranger]

81. or e) possible bullshit

You know the routine: Give us a link.

[Endangered Specie]

185. splitting hairs...

when I said invent I meant the development of the systems used to transfer, generate etc... and yes, you can die from it, but electricity is much safer today than in decades past.


My point was not how or why the animals were electrocuted but just to point out the mere fact that they were. and thank you for making it more specific, most the animals were killed with AC power, which is the same power that most PETA members use. Im simply trying to show that people who say they will not use ANYTHING that has been the result of testing/creulty/death of animals, they should consider shutting off the power.

[Gold Metal Flake]

88. Electricity was not invented.

It preceeded us by, oh, a few tousand billion years or so. How old is the universe? Well that's how old electricity is.

Electricity has not been made safe. One amp will kill you. Any wall socket in your house can kill you many times over. We have invented ways to conduct electricity, generate it and route it safely in your house and buildings and continue to invent safer products that use electricity, but diedct contact with a live circuit can be deadly. New electrical products are invented daily but animals are not involved. They did not need to be in the first place.

I remember reading about animals being involved in the selling of electricity in the late 1800s. Specifically, Edison based his electric service on DC (direct current), where his competitor based his service on AC (alternating service). Edison killed many animals, including dogs and cats, in public demonstrations by placing them on steel sheets and then turning on the juice. His terrible exibition was to sell the idea that AC was "deadly" while DC was "safe". In the long run, the more efficient AC system was adopted.

These animals did not have to die. They were made to die not for research but to help Edison make money.

The content of your post was poorly conceived. Therefore, it had to be savaged. Just gotta be, nothing personal.

[Sterling]

113. Great post, thank you!

nt

[Gold Metal Flake]

126. McMurphy sez...

"The next woman takes me out is going to light up like a pinball machine and pay off in silver dollars."

If you have ever gotten between the B+ rail and chassis of an Ampeg SVT bass amp, you gain a true respect for what a shitload of electrons moving in unison can do. If you are as stupid as I am, you still occasionally forget!

[digno dave]

233. Edison was a fraud...So, Bomar, Thompson or Grady?

[secretpoet]

200. Then how do people survive being electrocuted via wall sockets?

On another note, the competitor was Nikola Tesla, btw. Crazy dude who also built the first proto-radio, proto-sonar (back in WWI, but wasn't really "invented" until someone else did it after that), and supposedly built a "death ray" with which he accidently blew up part of siberia.

Edison hated Tesla, because Tesla used to be his assistant, but since Edison didn't pay Tesla what he earned, Tesla left.

[Gold Metal Flake]

220. What are you asking?

"Then how do people survive being electrocuted via wall sockets?"

Who said they didn't?

Nicola Tesla. Crazy. Um, OK.

[acmejack]

2. This makes absolutely NO sense!

I can't see any possible circumstance that could lead to PETA involvement in something like this. It sounds a lot more like a desperate attempt to get out from under the circumstances.

[LisaL]

7. Actually, it makes all the sense in the world.

I firmly believe that this organization would rather see all the pets dead than owned. I think they are against pet ownership. Period.

[flvegan]

24. Links, please. You gotta back that up.

Oh, and keep it in context, please.

[NickB79]

64. Here is one site that quotes PETA

http://www.theanimalspirit.com/njaraarticle.html

"PEOPLE FOR THE ETHICAL TREATMENT OF ANIMALS (PETA)

From www.peta.org: "PETA cannot in good conscience oppose euthanasia as a humane alternative to dealing with cat overpopulation."

From PETA's publication Why all Cats Should be Indoor Cats: "Euthanasia is a tragic necessity."

PETA's factsheet Trapping is the Kindest Solution actually encourages people to trap and kill feral cats. It reads: "Please do not allow the prospect of euthanasia to deter you from trapping cats. If you leave them where they are, they will almost certainly die a painful death. A painless injection is far kinder than any fate that feral cats will meet if left to survive on their own." "

It doesn't say that their official stances is the elimination of all pets. However, here are a few quotes that do suggest just that:

"Pet ownership is an absolutely abysmal situation brought about by human manipulation."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Just Like Us? Toward a Nation of Animal Rights" (symposium), Harper's, August 1988, p. 50.

"I don't use the word 'pet.' I think it's speciest language. I prefer 'companion animal.' We would no longer allow... pet shops... Eventually companion animals would be phased out."
-- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Harper's Magazine, Aug. 1988

"The bottom line is that people don't have the right to manipulate or to breed dogs and cats ... If people want toys, they should buy inanimate objects. If they want companionship, they should seek it with their own kind.
-- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Animals, May/June 1993

"You don't have to own squirrels and starlings to get enjoyment >from them ... One day, we would like an end to pet shops and the breeding of animals. would pursue their natural lives in the wild .. they would have full lives, not wasting at home for someone to come home in the evening and pet them and then sit there and watch TV,"
-- Ingrid Newkirk, national director, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PeTA), Chicago Daily Herald, March 1, 1990.

[flvegan]

71. Missed the point of context.

First, last I heard, PETA doesn't advocate the mass trapping and killing of ferals. I do believe that there was a point before there were so many TNR initiatives, and so many ferals were sick and dying that they did advocate euthanizing the very sick ones. Their newer pamphlet on ferals has a different message.

PETA isn't opposed to having a dog or cat (or several) for that matter (you should visit their office and meet many of them that go to work with employees). They do oppose the breeding of them and the pet stores that sell them. With 5 million animals being euthanized in our nation's shelters each year, I am heartily in agreement with them.

[livinginphotographs]

73. Wow, a bunch of ten-year-old quotes.

So they believe that euthanizing an abandoned animal is more humane than leaving it to starve on the streets because it is unadoptable or sick. And?

And so they'd phase out pet shops? Good. Pet shops are disgusting. There's a thing called a local animal shelter that people should be going to anyway.

As far as pet vs. companion animal, pet implies ownership, so many people prefer companion animal. It's like black vs. african-american. I assume you aren't going to start bitching about "political correctness run amok" or anything. In fact, the very website you quoted seems to prefer the term "companion animal."

[Catchawave]

77. Excellent points !

We need to control the greedy and ignorant human factor when it comes to the way we treat the unwanted pets.

[youspeakmylanguage]

86. I prefer ownership...

I love my dog with all of my heart, but I will NEVER absolve ownership of him, even if it starts out as an issue of semantics. Why? Because if he becomes a "companion animal" and not my dog, then what could stop another person or organization from taking him away? What if he got lost and was picked up by Animal Control. If I didn't "own" him, what would stop someone else from wanting to claim him as their "companion animal"?

Local governments have the right and responsibility to remove animals from abusive homes, but we have the right to decide what is best for our own pets.

[livinginphotographs]

93. You're missing the point.

The idea of a companion animal is that you "own" your pet much like you "own" your children.

[youspeakmylanguage]

135. Still no dice...

In a civilized society, a human can't own another human. But parents (both natural and adopted) are granted specific legal rights and responsibilities while their offspring are still legally minors. These rights do not exist for pet owners and pets. Therefore legally blurring the distinction between owning an animal and having it as a "companion" would open a pandora's box of legal trouble.

In a cosmic sense, I don't "own" my dog. He is a creature of the earth as I am. But in the legal sense I own him and that grants me the right to house him and care for him AND decide what is best for him, and I'm not about to give that up.

[livinginphotographs]

137. You're still missing the point.

The idea of animal rights doesn't mean that PETA Swat teams can bust down your door and take your dog whenever they feel like it. It's about redefining humans relationships with animals from being property to being companions. It's not necessarily even a legal issue, it's an ethical one.

You are the guardian of your children, not their owner. You should be the guardian of your animals, not their owner. Morally, the idea of ownership allows you to inflict all kinds of cruelty on animals (much like what was done to slaves when those people were considered property). Companionship or guardianship gives you way more responsibilities to look out for the animal's wellbeing.

Maybe I'm explaining it poorly, but I can't really see why anyone who is interested in taking good care of their animals (like you clearly are) would have a problem with that.

[youspeakmylanguage]

149. Hypothetical...

My dog is a mutt, but imagine I owned a purebred English Bulldog pup w/ papers (going rate $2,500+ in this part of the country). Now imagine my pup backed out of his collar, ran into a neighbors yard, and that neighbor ran outside, grabbed him, and ran back in his house.

What do I do? Call the police? It isn't my property that the neighbor has, it's my "companion". Could the neighbor go to court and prove that the pup prefers his "companionship"? Hell, the neighbor could even prove that, by purchasing a more expensive brand of dog food, that he is being a more qualified "companion" than I. Would the court have to hand the pup over to a "foster family" as the issues over his guardianship are worked out?

How could I defend myself? By proving that I paid money for my "companion"? But wait, if it isn't my property, then what exactly did I pay for? "Companionship"? How is that legally defined?

Again, Pandora's box that you, while well-intentioned, haven't even begun to address.

[livinginphotographs]

157. What if that was your child?

Do you think there'd be any doubt that you'd get your child back if your neighbor stole him or her instead?

You're making this way more complicated than it is.

[youspeakmylanguage]

We're arguing semantics...

...which is what this whole discussion seems to be about.

As far as I know (I'm not a legal expert), laws already exist giving the government the right to seize animals that are being abused, just as there are laws giving the government the right to seize abused children.

You're talking about completely rewriting laws that are already sufficiently clear (if not adequately enforced) just because you disagree with the concept that a human can "own" an animal, DESPITE the fact that animals are purchased by humans, are bred by humans, and are reliant on humans for shelter, food, and medical care.

[livinginphotographs]

162. I said absolutely nothing about law.

I'm talking about the moral aspect of pet vs. companion animal.

[youspeakmylanguage]

175. My entire post concerned the law...

This entire post was a hypothetical discussion of the legal ramifications of outlawing pet ownership. This whole debate has centered around the legal issues of pet ownership versus "companionship".

Your heart is in the right place, but your head isn't. You're refusing to address the practical application of what you're advocating and how it would affect both the rights of animals AND their owners.

[livinginphotographs]

176. I don't see how it would change anything, legally.

The only thing I can think of is that pets would be granted the same status as children, in that you are considered a guardian as opposed to an owner. What's wrong with that?

[youspeakmylanguage]

180. sigh...

Brother, I've gone over this repeatedly. If you're going to simply ignore what I write, then there is no point in continuing this.

Read over my previous posts and address the hypothetical LEGAL CONCERNS that I've raised over the issue of "companionship". Then tell me exactly what the world of domestic animals hopes to gain by being emancipated from the bonds of "ownership".

[livinginphotographs]

181. Don't accuse me of ignoring what you wrote.

I've read it. And I"ve repeatedly explained my position as well. Don't get all condescending on me just because you're being obtuse, whether intentionally or otherwise.

Your example of your neighbor stealing you dog is as ridiculous as worrying about your neighbor stealing your children just because you're considered their guardian as opposed to their owner. So your hypothetical legal concerns are really nothing to be concerned about.

Unless your neighbor currently does steal children, in which case you've got a lot more to be worried about than our discussion here.

[hoboken123]

327. Some info

I've been down a similar road with the other poster. It mostly consisted of arguing semantics while ignoring any points, with a heavy dose of condescension.

Just an fyi.

[youspeakmylanguage]

159. We're arguing semantics...

EDIT: duplicate message.

[The Stranger]

138. I don't think PETA is trying to do away with law regarding

personal property. And, although you may own your dog as chattel, there are limits to what you may do with your dog (as personal property), and these limits are backed with all of the the power of law.

And, in the end, as a result of these laws, you are required (and most people do) to treat your dog more like a companion animal than, perhaps, an old television that you discard as rubbish.

[youspeakmylanguage]

152. My dog's health and lifestyle are the very reason why I maintain ownership

I do everything I can to make my dog healthy and happy, including spending $600+ dollars on a leg operation that will help prevent painful arthritis later in his life.

It's because I have invested so much love (and money) in this animal that I want to ensure that I have the legal right to continue caring for him and keep him as part of my family. Until the laws are sufficiently changed to offer the same legal protections as ownership for "companion animals", then I will be his legal owner. It's as simple as that.

[flvegan]

148. You should read this.

http://www.guardiancampaign.org/whatIsCampaign.htm

[Media_Lies_Daily]

76. Your post is a major s-t-r-e-t-c-h, IMHO. Try again.

[kanrok]

101. Yeah, but you can't teach a starling to "fetch"

n/t

[VegasWolf]

26. Exactly, I believe that they are extremist under the covers. nt

[ElectroPrincess]

46. Perhaps some bizarro factions of PETA but no, that's not in their MO

[livinginphotographs]

49. Congratulations

On the dumbest post of the day.

Especially since many employees of PETA bring their "pets" to work with them.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

74. I think you need to supply some links for that rather interesting claim.

[warrens]

188. They bring their own dogs to work, kiddo

That is industry propaganda. They want to see BREEDING ended, but they are not against pets.

[Tinoire]

226. Oh for crying out loud!

I'm PETA and have/have had a ton of pets as so most of my PETA & HFA friends. How on earth do people get off spreading such bullshit?

[Boomer]

9. Not that far fetched in some circumstances

Some people have a mental disturbance akin to hoarding. Their "love" for animals prompts them to take in strays, then more strays, and more and more....

And eventually they simply are overwhelmed by the responsibility and end up with dead or dying animals because of the poor maintenance care.

Sad and ironic.

[LisaL]

11. Not the case here. They took the dogs from shelters, killed them,

and dumped their bodies into garbage.

[Boomer]

172. Sorry, I didn't make myself clear

I was responding in a more general way to the "under no circumstances could this happen..." statement, not to the specific situation.

[Richard Steele]

12. NOT the case here! Those dogs were just picked up ALIVE that day.

SNIP:
"Anderson, also involved in Wednesday's surveillance and subsequent arrest,
was able to positively identify nearly all of the dogs found in the dumpster
as the ones picked-up just a few hours earlier on Wednesday by Cook and Hinkle."
......................................................................

Whatever is going on here is alot worse than an 'overwhelmed animal lover'.

[LisaL]

13. They had been doing it for while.

The police had surveillance of the dumpster because of the bodies of dead dogs were found there before. That's how those 2 got arrested. They were picking these dogs from a shelter, killing them, and dumping their bodies in a dumpster.
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87909&ran=70111&tref=po

[BrendaStarr]

83. Or could this be cooked evidence?

We are forgetting a) that these people haven't been convicted of anything yet.

And evidence and finished court cases have shown that many law enforcement groups do cook evidence up on minorities and politically unfavored groups.

[ElectroPrincess]

47. And very rare /eom

[Snivi Yllom]

348. orr PETA "rescues pets from shelters, then mishandles them, and they die

in PETAs custody.

I would not be surprised.

[Karmadillo]

3. PETA response

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87909&ran=70111&tref=po

<edit>

PETA is investigating the incident. During its review, the organization has suspended Hinkle, who has worked for more than two years as one of its community animal project employees in North Carolina.

Cook, who was hired only weeks ago as her assistant, has not been suspended.

“We are appalled if this actually happened,” PETA President Ingrid Newkirk said. “We would absolutely never condone this behavior.”

more...

[anotherdrew]

61. yooo hooo!!! this is about the guy, Cook. he just started weeks ago,

Just weeks ago was when the cops started finding dead dogs...

"
Hinkle, who has worked for more than two years as one of its community animal project employees in North Carolina.

Cook, who was hired only weeks ago as her assistant, has not been suspended.
"

===============

I'd bet Cook will jump bail, I'd bet money on it...

[gumby]

4. Kinda sounds like

the right-wing's affiliation with pedophilia.

[Politicub]

5. PETA teams with Bill Frist

forms cult of the Undead Kitty and Doggy

(Tasteless, I know. Sorry)

[VegasWolf]

27. People Eating Tasty Animals? What, we're carnivores!?

[TankLV]

182. I belong to PETA too.

I LOVE to eat tasty animals!

A nice steak - ummmmm!

[Ignis]

184. How nice for you. Here's a steak-flavoured cookie.

But unless it's a steak of doggie flesh instead of cow flesh, it's not really relevant to this thread.

[VegasWolf]

277. Nah, I like my steaks without the sugar. nt

[TankLV]

281. It sure is - PETA is completely hypocritical and beyond redemption.

They advocate no to furs and veggies while wearing leather shoes and coats and belts.

Way to go.

They have long ago lost any relevance and ability to be taken seriously.

A true example of kooks and wackos.

[JJswans]

329. Wearing apparel information?

>>>They advocate no to furs and veggies while wearing leather shoes and coats and belts.<<<

They who? Can you name the people who work with Peta who wear leather shoes, coats, and belts? You've been close enough to know that it's not pleather?

[RalphReedsWreckedEm]

6. What the?

We need to get to the bottom of this. If true, and PETA has any involvement, then PETA needs to be relegated to the ashbin of history. PETA has been a lightning rod and we could do without that right now.

[bahrbearian]

8. The bottom is.. your kind of thinking....!!!!

Peta is for Ethical treatment of all animals,,,even Human ones..

[NoKillShelterGuy]

296. This has been SOP for PETA for years.

They got caught red handed this time, so Ingrid is playing CYA. For the PETA supporters here, this is your contributions at work. More dead animals....I hope you're happy.

[JJswans]

330. No kill?

Red handed? Doing what? Humanely euthanizing animals that were going to be inhumanely euthanized? Gee, that's terrible. What would you have had them do instead? Ignore the problem? Preach no-kill while ignoring that animals have no place to live, and no one to care for them, and are dying inhumanely in shelters that barely deserve the name shelter? Or is it better to bash those that actually take responsibility for doing the best thing they can to ease these animal's suffering? I vote for the latter.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

351. If they were humanely euthanized, then why the 31 felony counts

of animal cruelty?

People keep saying "they were humanely euthanized." Well, not according to the charges that have been brought against the people who did it...

[donco6]

10. PETA - pfft.

Who gives a shit. PETA has done nothing but wreck any semblance of legitimacy for animal rights anyway. Hopefully this will relegate them to a lower tier in the fray.

[Skip Intro]

14. talk about a broad brush n/t

[donco6]

15. I suppose I could be wrong.

But I don't know of any one of my acquaintenances who has a positive image of PETA. The general consensus is that they are "fringe element" moving further out all the time. I can't imagine being swayed by any of their stunts. I don't know anyone who has become vegetarian because of PETA. I don't know anyone who has given up a pet because of PETA. What impact toward any of their goals have they EVER had? Ever?

[Skip Intro]

17. Have you ever heard their side of things?

Ever visited their website and stayed a while?

I think that'll answer a lot of your questions.

They fact that they fall victim to organized smear campaigns (beef/chicken/dead animal industry powered - could there be any doubt?) )would seem to me to diminish PETA only to those who are too lazy or unwilling to hear both sides of the story. Just a suspicion.

[LisaL]

19. Oh please!

Police caught them in the act of dumping the bodies. The dogs had been alive that very day when picked up by them.
That ain't just a suspicion.
:eyes:

[flvegan]

41. Them meaning PETA, or them meaning a couple individuals?

Let's tread very carefully here.

[Skip Intro]

45. What? Facts are in for you? All PETA implicated? "Oh please" yourself -

You seem all ready to belive PETA has roving vans picking up live animals and then killing and dumping them. And I'm insulted by your generalization because I support PETA for the very reason that the stand for the RIGHTS of ALL ANIMALS to be humanely treated. If I thought for a second this, if true, were some official policy of PETA, I'd be the first to hammer them.

But all we've got here are two people that "may be associated" with PETA, commiting acts PETA would, and did, condem. That seems like a very thin layre of ice to be skating on singing, "oh please" to other likelyhoods.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

298. ROTFLMAO!!!

YES INDEED! They were caught in a PETA-owned vehicle, while on the PETA clock, doing PETA's work in PETA's name, and they MIGHT be associated with PETA!!!! :rofl:


PETA wholeheartedly supports euthanasia of animals. This policy is nothing new. The only new facet to this story is the fact that there are 31 felony and 8 misdemeanors filed against their employees.

[trotsky]

90. "organized smear campaigns"??

Um, did the poultry industry come up with the idea to compare chicken processing to the Holocaust?

Sorry, but the little bit of good PETA does (and I will acknowledge they DO accomplish some) is so terribly overshadowed by their kookiest ideas that overall they hurt not only their own cause but the cause of liberalism too.

[livinginphotographs]

95. PETA didn't come up with that idea either.

Isaac Baschevis Singer did.

[trotsky]

100. So in that case, PETA's leaders are so stupid

that they take a bad idea and run with it? Um, hello, it was a PETA campaign.

[shockra]

107. The exhibit was based on the book Eternal Treblinka.

http://www.eternaltreblinka.com/

Which was endorsed by over 350 animal rights organizations.

http://www.eternaltreblinka.com/support.html

Preface:

I am dedicating the book to the great Yiddish writer
Isaac Bashevis Singer (1904-91), who was the first major
writer to focus on the "Nazi" way we treat animals. The
first two parts of the book (Chapters 1-5) put the issue
in historical perspective, while the last part (Chapters
6-8) profiles people--Jewish and German--whose animal
advocacy has been, at least to some extent, shaped by
the Holocaust.

[trotsky]

108. So, yes, PETA's leaders were stupid, is what you're saying?

To buy into such a ridiculous analogy? They put out flyers, they stamped their names on it.

[livinginphotographs]

125. Did you read flvegan's post?

He explained it beautifully. But I guess for you, knee-jerk anti-PETA indignation is just more fun.

[trotsky]

144. Just now I did, since it was posted AFTER what I wrote above.

So basically it confirmed that it was a boneheaded thing PETA did, which is all I said to begin with. Yes, they can apologize all they want and justify their decision in the first place. But the net result was to get people MORE OPPOSED to their campaign, and thus did more harm than good. Which was my point.

[livinginphotographs]

147. So it didn't work out.

That doesn't mean that the idea itself is stupid. Some people are offended when equal treatment of homosexuals is compared to the civil rights movement. It doesn't make the comparison any less apt.

Maybe you should go work for PETA's marketing department, since you're so full of good ideas and suggestions.

[trotsky]

151. I would jump at the opportunity, if I were given the power...

to completely remold it. I've got tons of ideas that would actually work towards the goals of PETA without alienating people.

For instance: OK, so you want to eliminate meat consumption. Number 1, that has to become a LONG-TERM goal, to be put on the back burner in favor of curtailing meat consumption in the SHORT TERM.

Example:

Say you're on the street corner screaming at people that "MEAT IS MURDER" and shoving pictures of cow carcasses in their face. I'm guessing that tactic maybe makes 1 out of every 100 meat eaters become a vegetarian. I'm guessing generously there.

Instead, how about you explain to people the benefits of cutting a serving of meat out of their diet - maybe every day, or every week. Reduce your consumption, don't eliminate it. Turn people on to the healthier aspects. Say in this case you convince maybe 50 out of 100 meat eaters to scale back their meat consumption.

Which of those results is going to end up with overall less animals being killed, less resources going into meat production, etc.?

[livinginphotographs]

155. Those are valid points.

As I've said elsewhere in this thread and others, I don't agree with everything PETA does. But clearly by focusing on animal welfare like they do most of the time (telling KFC to treat its chickens better, not replace them with tofu wings, for instance) it's obvious that they recognize that they can't convert the American population to veganism overnight.

Another thing to remember is that the media rarely reports on their more low-key campaigns, because naked people in plastic wrap make better news.

As far as reasoning with people, though, even in the thread on red meat causing cancer, some people still refused to even think about changing their diets because "everything can kill you." (which leaves me wondering why they aren't smoking three packs a day and stepping out in front of speeding cars, since "everything can kill you.")

[trotsky]

166. More naked people. Yes, that's one campaign I'd ramp up. :)

As far as "red meat causes cancer" well yes, you're going to get people who will engage in risky behavior. I knew a vegan in college who was very much into the "meat will KILL you" scene but also smoked - heavily. So that's just human nature. I eat a lot LESS meat than I did say 10 or even 5 years ago, but I still eat it.

Plus, it will always come back to the fact that humans evolved as meat-eating primates. There are essential nutrients and amino acids in meat that are much harder to come by with a strict vegan diet. I haven't known a single vegan yet who didn't take some sort of vitamin or dietary supplement. And those things can be expensive.

[bitchkitty]

212. Jesus Christ -

check yourself. Pretend you're a stranger laughing at stupid posts, and read your responses.

[livinginphotographs]

119. Yeah, and?

I thought it was a good idea, personally. I've explained this here on DU numerous times, but since no one ever cares to respond to those threads, and would rather start frothing at the mouth without stopping to think about it on completely different threads, don't blame me for being a little tired of going through this again and again.

[livinginphotographs]

145. Oh yeah, try this.

http://www.eternaltreblinka.com/

This is the book that popularized the Holocaust comparisons. Notice PETA had nothing to do with it. Thanks for playing.

[trotsky]

146. Wow, if that were my point, you'd have me good.

PETA took the idea, and turned it into a campaign of their own. PETA's name got on it, and it did far more harm than good.

[redqueen]

104. PETA didn't approve it?

Are you saying this guy made all those ads on his own, without their consent or approval?

[livinginphotographs]

116. PETA took an idea that was originally presented by

Isaac Baschevis Singer. And the original book "Eternal Triblinka" was not written by someone from PETA. It was written by the grandson of holocaust survivors.

[redqueen]

120. Thanks.

I saw fivegan's lengthy response on this issue, and am satisfied that PETA meant well with that campaign and tried their best to be sensitive about the issue.

[flvegan]

111. Using the Holocaust in one of their campaigns

was a decent idea for comparison, but was understandibly not well received. Ingrid Newkirk also apologized for upsetting folks with PETA's use of same:

When "Holocaust on Your Plate" was originally launched, we knew that it would be emotionally charged and intellectually provocative. Even if we had used more conventional tactics, people don't like to have it pointed out to them that they¹re causing unnecessary pain and suffering by eating meat. We did aim to be provocative. We did not, however, aim simply to provoke.

Hard as it may be to understand for those who were deeply upset by this campaign, I was bowled over by the negative reception by many in the Jewish community. It was both unintended and unexpected. The PETA staff who proposed that we do it were Jewish, and the patronage for the entire endeavor was Jewish. We were careful to use Jewish authors and scholars and quotes from Holocaust victims and survivors. And since Judaism has some of
the strongest teachings regarding compassion for animals among the monotheistic faiths, I truly believed, as did the Jewish staff members who proposed the exhibit, that a large segment of the Jewish community would support it.

We had also seen the positive response to Holocaust scholar Charles Patterson's book, 'Eternal Treblinka: Our Treatment of Animals and the Holocaust,' and felt that our exhibit was very much in keeping both with the spirit and goals of his book, as well as the history that he documents, which finds more and more Jews opting for vegetarian diets as a part of their response to the Holocaust applied to humans and other animals.

The Orthodox Jewish Press wrote, "Charles Patterson's book gives us pause for thought, and if killing and consuming our animal protein is a societal cause of homicide and genocide then we must stop to give some consideration. After all, foods of animal origin are especially prone for causing most of our major illnesses, such as cancer and heart disease."

A member of the editorial staff at the daily Israeli paper, Ha'aretz wrote, "this is a thorough and thought-provoking book. If the linkage of animal rights and the Holocaust seems startling at first, it begins to make perfect sense as one reads on. Some might see this as trivialization of the Holocaust; it isn't. Instead, the chilling parallels Patterson exposes seem to offer even more reason to despair of the human race."

Another daily paper from Israel, Maariv opined, "the moral challenge posed by 'Eternal Treblinka' turns it into a must for anyone who seeks to delve into the universal lesson of the Holocaust... ."

The Jerusalem Post stated, "Even if you are not persuaded to give up meat meals for moral reasons, at least you will never be able to say of the suffering behind them: "I didn't know... ."

Similar responses have been published in Jewish papers all over the world.

The "Holocaust on Your Plate" Campaign was designed to sensitize people to different forms of systematic degradation and exploitation, and the logic and methods employed in factory farms and slaughterhouses are analogous to those used in concentration camps. We understand both systems to be based on a moral equation indicating that "might makes right" and premised on a concept of other cultures or other species as deficient and thus disposable. Each has its own unique mechanisms and purposes, but both result in immeasurable, unnecessary suffering for those who are innocent and unable to defend themselves.

As with the song "Dona, Dona," we had hoped to draw attention to the common, terrifying experience of the condemned en route to their horrible and unnecessary slaughter. We recognize that the analogy made in "Dona Dona" resonates as more than a rhetorical or literary comparison, especially to those for whom the experience is still too personal to universalize. The differences cannot be translated or reduced to a metaphor, particularly for
the victims and survivors who still bear physical and emotional scars of persecution and for the Jewish community still so horribly vulnerable to continued acts of anti-Semitism.

We sincerely wished to bridge these different forms of systematic abuse. By showing how humans were treated "like animals" it was never our goal to humiliate the victims further.

We believe that we humans can and should use our distinctive capacities to reduce suffering in the world. Even the vegan diet that we endorse out of concern for animal suffering promotes human health, protects the environment, and liberates us from violent practices, as Dr. Richard Schwartz makes so clear in his book Judaism and Vegetarianism. These are all goals directed at alleviating human suffering as well as that of other beings.

Our mission is a profoundly human one at its heart, yet we know that we have caused pain. This was never our intention, and we are deeply sorry. We hope that you can understand that although we embarked on the "Holocaust on Your Plate" project with misconceptions about what its impact would be, we always try to act with integrity, with the goal of improving the lives of those who suffer. We hope those we upset will find it in their hearts to work toward the goal of a kinder world for all, regardless of species.

[redqueen]

115. Thanks.

That's a very reasoned explanation of that campaign.

I still have reservations, though... passing out comic books to kids showing an insane looking mother holding a knife over an animal, under the bloody-font screaming title "YOUR MOMMY KILLS ANIMALS!"... how can they justify that?

[flvegan]

129. I don't agree with everything they do, either.

I haven't seen the comic books, but I have heard of them and don't deny they exist. I would say that using that tactic is heavy handed, yes.

[donco6]

170. You know, I did actually.

On your advice, I looked around quite a bit. There was one accomplishment that I thought was worthwhile - they helped stop a test of some peroxide chemical on animals that would have yielded superfluous results (we know it's corrosive).

But there's a lot of self-aggrandizement, too. PETA taking credit for things that they may or may not have influenced. Pretty tacky.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

297. So the beef/chicken/dead animal industry....

were the ones caught with the vanload of dead housepets?

This isn't a "smear campaign" by some nebulous third party...this is having their employees caught red-handed slaughtering adoptable pets.

[SkyeTerrier]

317. Of course, it all makes sense now....

While the two alleged animal abusers were driving from the animal hospital they suddenly slammed on the brakes to avoid hitting a dog that ran in front of their truck. When they hit the brakes all the animals in their van were suddenly thrown forward due to the sudden stop and were impaled by hypodermic needles filled with phenobarbitol that were left in the truck by anti-PETA forces in hopes of discrediting the organization.

Yes, it all makes sense now. Of course PeTA is innocent, and my, doesn't this Kool-Aid taste good......

[flvegan]

334. You'd know best about that Kool Aid. Drink up.

Those posts are adding up, aren't they? Answer any of my questions yet? *crickets chirping*

[katamaran]

33. PETA is NOT well liked in its hometown

The Hampton Roads (Norfolk, VA Beach, etc) definitely doesn't like PETA. They have done some pretty nasty stuff around here. One of the most famous was placing a billboard of decapitated cow head along a major road in VA Beach, not far from several elementary schools. The billboard was titled "Unhappy Meal", a protest of McDonalds.

They also have vandalized the Ronald McDonald house (they deny it, of course). Ronald McDonald house is where the families of children getting treatment at the Children's Hospital of the Kings's Daughters stay to be near their kids. Like or dislike McDonalds, that pissed off a LOT of people here.

During the latest Ringling Brothers circus visit, they were outside the arena with giant TV's showing circus animal abuse video. I don't condone abusing ANYTHING (except a couple Republicans), but they were aiming at the five and six year olds who were going with their classes during school. They were intentionally scaring little kids...I personally saw a lot of them crying.

Yeah...PETA is very disliked around here.

[livinginphotographs]

53. Hate to break it to you

But maybe in your circle of friends only, PETA is hated. From the people I knew down there, they were either appreciated or just tolerated. The hatred towards PETA that is characteristic of DU is definitely not the way it is in Hampton Rhoads.

[Blue_Tires]

269. I'm from Va Beach, and I admire (most of) what they do

And you have to admit, an organization like PETA being hated in an area that LOVES Rumsfeld, Pat Robertson, Falwell, George Allen, etc., is sorta like a badge of honor

[Sterling]

123. But I don't know of any one of my acquaintenances who has a positive image

The same thi9ng can be said of many people regarding gays, it does not make them right when they say it. Or does it?

[donco6]

167. I suppose

But I don't know anyone who has as negative an image of gays as they do of PETA. Even rightwingers are cautious about condeming the "behaviour" not the person (which I know is pretty much bullshit, too). PETAs image is shitty all the way around.

The only thing PETA seems to be really good at - well, two things - 1) self-aggrandizement, and 2) getting people naked.

[flvegan]

40. Untrue.

You should research their many successes before suggesting such a thing. Animal rights owes a great deal to PETA.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

299. Yes, animal right surely does....

owe a lot to PETA...like the bodies of hundreds of adoptable pets being thrown into dumpsters.

PETA is our side's equivalent to the Phelps Family. They do far more harm than good.

[flvegan]

331. Our side?

Check yourself, as you might not know what side you're on.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

349. I'm on the side that does not think that killing animals....

helps the animals that were killed.

You are on the side that is buying into the "We had to destroy the village in order to save it" mentality.

You are a vegan, according to your user name. So let me ask you why you are a vegan. Are you a vegan because you do not like animals to be killed, or because you just do not like meat? If you are a vegan because you do not want animals to be killed, then why are you supporting PETA, which clearly endorses killing animals?

[TankLV]

183. Ya got that right, IMO.

A bunch of serious wackos.

They started out with noble ideas, and such, but there are plenty of documented instances where they are just plain loony - and dangerous - not to mention hypocritical in the extreme.

Railing against eating of meat while wearing leather shoes and coats. RIIIIIGT!

[Merope215]

199. Uh-huh.

And you know that they wear leather how?

Only time I've ever seen a PETA employee wearing an animal product was as part of a protest. Some, I'd imagine, continue to wear old leather items until they wear out, in order to avoid the waste, but I'm pretty sure you're mistaken about that claim. Care to provide a link?

[SkyeTerrier]

267. Well, they wear Pleather....

Which is a petroleum-based product, so you can bet that it's production causes far more animal death and environmental destruction than natural leather.:shrug:

[Merope215]

294. Yeah, and

all the chemicals from tanneries aren't exactly environmentally friendly either. Bioplastics from GM plants are considered the wave of the future, but of course, they're genetically modified. Pick your poison - it's a trade-off between habitat loss and slaughterhouse. I myself am happier without wearing something else's skin.

Anyway, that wasn't the point. The question was whether PETA employees wear leather, which has not been credibly affirmed by the poster to whom I was replying. So...

[livinginphotographs]

344. Since you're suddenly so concerned with animal welfare...

I assume you've stopped declawing your animals and clipping their ears, right?

[Dogmudgeon]

Let's get the facts before we make the nooses

The investigation is only a couple of days old. It sounds like the local PD will be investigating, as will PeTA HQ.

I don't like PeTA very much, either, but they deserve the same presumption of innocence as anyone else.

--p!

[LisaL]

18. They were caught in the act of disposing of the bodies.

[Dogmudgeon]

20. And?

Dumping animal bodies may be a crime in that jurisdiction, but they're entitled to explain themselves. There could conceivably be a Damned Good Reason that the suspects dumped the bodies.

Or they could be crazy-as-batshit fanatics acting out some weird agenda they have. But I'll still wait until the facts are on the table and the sentence has been pronounced.

If they can throw the book at PeTA activists, they can throw it at anyone. I just happen to like the legal concept of fairness. I'm willing to put up with their tirades to keep my own eccentric ass out of the fire.

--p!
Founding member of PETAAA -- Pigwidgeon for the Ethical Treatment of Anyone At All

[LisaL]

23. Yea, I am sure there was a good reason they dumped

the bodies-they killed all these dogs and had to do something with the dead bodies, so they dumped them. What exactly is unclear about the situation? They picked the dogs up from a shelter, they killed them, and then they dumped them into the dumpster.

[flvegan]

35. They PETA or they individuals?

C'mon, we're better than that, aren't we.

Christ, no wonder we lose so often.

[Dogmudgeon]

43. Unclear

Here is what's clear to me: that jumping to judgement about any crime is a guaranteed way to poison democracy.

Let them answer for their crimes. If they have a justification, let them offer it. If that's not good enough, let them suffer the legal penalty. All without prejudice.

I can hold my temper about the dead dogs for a few weeks. But the idea of the law being bent to create a couple of martyrs is just a bad idea.

--p!

[livinginphotographs]

55. Habla anglais?

You keep saying "they" meaning PETA (and then responding with your favorite eye-roll emoticon, at some point that stops being cute and just becomes condescending and annoying) even though PETA itself was not involved in this.

I'll make it nice and easy for you: PETA was not involved in this. They are not the "they" you refer to. These were some sick individuals that PETA is right to disassociate themselves with.

But I guess you're no longer a Democrat because of Zell Miller, right? Right? Just askin'...

[seriousstan]

106. PETA was the organization picking the animals up.....read the article.

"These were just kittens we were trying to find homes for," he said. "PETA said they would do that, but these cats never made it out of the county."

PETA had taken 50 animals from Proctor's practice over the past two years, he said.

PETA also has taken animals from veterinarian James Brown in Northampton County.

Police found 18 dead animals in the trash bin and 13 more in a van registered to PETA.

If your in a PETA van AND you are a PETA employee AND you have been representing PETA for over 2 years collecting animals YOU ARE PETA!

[flvegan]

112. So let me get this straight

Let's say a guy works for Pepsi, driving a Pepsi delivery truck. He's worked there for 10 years. He purposely swerves to hit a dog in the street. Pepsi is guilty of animal cruelty? Got it.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

302. No, but....

if he works for Pepsi, deliberately mixes mercury into the Pepsi as a part of his job because that is what his bosses told him to do, and then drives around poisoning people by serving them tainted Pepsi, then YES, it is PEPSI'S FAULT.

These people were doing what they were told to do. PETA kills almost all animals that they take in. These people were just carrying out Ingrid's orders.

[livinginphotographs]

114. Did you read PETA's response?

They were clearly operating outside of the bounds of their assignment. Otherwise, the one wouldn't have been suspended.

Just because the van was registered to PETA doesn't mean PETA authorized this. Zell Miller is a Democrat, but that doesn't make him representative of the Democratic party.

Be more specific - did PETA do it, or did these two rogue individuals do it? That's the difference I see.

[LisaL]

134. They suspended one, left the other alone. OMG!

I think the only thing these 2 weren't supposed to do is to dump the bodies into a public dumpster.

[livinginphotographs]

140. Once again, you are assuming.

"I think." Exactly. You're clearly more interested in bad-mouthing PETA than the actual welfare of animals.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

304. So what percentage of animals PETA takes in annually

end up being placed, and what percentage ends up dead in a dumpster?

These were not all unadoptable pets. There were kittens and puppies involved.

You are more interested in defending PETA while they do the undefendable than you are in animal rights.

[livinginphotographs]

343. Oooh, okay, Mr or Mrs. Disabled Profile.

That's okay, I won't play the bullshit accusation game with you. Otherwise, I'd call you a troll and be done with it. But that's rich being told what I'm interested in by you, of all people.

I am simply interested in defending PETA against the agenda of certain posters that come out like flies on shit anytime the P-word is mentioned. There actually are decent discussions on this elsewhere on DU that don't involved the obligatory People for the Eating of Tasty Animals jokes that have been spewed all over this thread. And that's rich:

If PETA is wrong, I'd be the first one to call them wrong. But since I don't have some ridiculous anti-vegetarian agenda like quite a few others here, I'm also willing to give a decent organization the benefit of the doubt.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

352. Lets look at the facts here.

Fact number 1: They were PETA employees.
Fact number 2: They were acting in PETA's name
Fact number 3: At least some of the animals killed were young puppies and kittens, which are very easy to place.
Fact number 4: They were using a PETA vehicle
Fact number 5: They apparently were using PETA supplied drugs.
Fact number 6: They did not "humanely euthanize" the animals, they killed them in a manner that supported charging them with THIRTY ONE FELONY COUNTS OF ANIMAL CRUELTY.


Which facts do you disagree with?

[NoKillShelterGuy]

303. No, they got CAUGHT.

that is their sin.

[SkyeTerrier]

189. OK, let me understand this.....

Two confirmed employees of PeTA pick up adoptable animals from local shelters and vets as representatives of PeTA, kill said animals and dump them from a van registered to PeTA. PeTA president, Ingrid Newkirk, confirms that they were indeed employees and their assignment was indeed to collect these animals for euthanasia (while claiming to be placing them in homes), yet you say PeTA was not involved in this.

Care to explain that logic? As far as I can tell, the only thing PeTA didn't sanction these two to do was dump the animals in the dumpster.

[JJswans]

196. Many years ago...

pound seizure was legal where I live, and once a week a representative from the research labs would come out to the shelter to collect dogs that had been marked by the shelter as candidates for research. The rule was that anyone from the public that wanted these dogs, had first rights, but if they were still there when the lab representative got there, then he could take them.

I knew a rescue volunteer who went out to the shelter every week, before the lab rep was due, and bought out the dogs that were marked to go to research. But because she already had all the dogs she could handle for adoption, and there was really no place to put these shelter dogs, she would take them to her vet and have them humanely euthanized by injection. The theory being that a quick and humane death was better than a torturous death in a lab.

Now granted these dogs didn't end up in a dumpster behind a market, but chances are they ended up in the same place that euthanized shelter dogs end up - either in a landfill, a crematory, or in a rendering plant - but either way, none of the dogs knew the difference, and disrespect of a dead body really isn't animal abuse.

So, if that was the kind of thing that was going on in this current situation, does it really matter where they end up, as long as they are humanely euthanized when there is no other options? And with millions of dogs/cats being euthanized in this country every year because of lack of homes, it's not a stretch to assume that these particular animals had no other options.

[flvegan]

197. Great post, JJ.

And again, it's great to have you here at DU.

[SkyeTerrier]

265. This isn't a discussion about pound seizure.

This is a discussion of PeTA obtaining adoptable animals under false pretense, killing them, and disposing of the bodies in a dumpster.

[flvegan]

274. Prove "false pretense" please.

Beyond what the vet said (he said, she said). He'd be a fool to admit that he had PETA come by to pick up unwanted animals and euthanize them.

Factual, now. Not an allegation made by one person that could be refuted by another.

Take your time...

[SkyeTerrier]

318. Quotes...

However, Detective Sgt. Ed Pittman of the Bertie Sheriff's Office confirmed, through the county's Animal Control Officer, that Cook and Hinkle identified themselves as PETA representatives from Norfolk, Va.

"According to Barry (Anderson, Bertie's Animal Officer), the man and woman told him they were picking up the dogs to take them back to Norfolk where they would find them good homes," Pittman said.

Pittman added that as far as he knew, persons identifying themselves as PETA representatives had picked-up live dogs at the Bertie Animal Shelter for at least the last two months.

Anderson, also involved in Wednesday's surveillance and subsequent arrest, was able to positively identify nearly all of the dogs found in the dumpster as the ones picked-up just a few hours earlier on Wednesday by Cook and Hinkle.

"Barry documents the animals as they are received at the animal shelter," Pittman noted.

Among the dead animals, though, authorities found a female cat and her two “very adoptable” kittens taken from Ahoskie Animal Hospital, veterinarian Patrick Proctor said.

“These were just kittens we were trying to find homes for,” Proctor said. “PETA said they would do that, but these cats never made it out of the county.”

When Proctor evaluated one dead dog for police, he discovered a healthy, 6-month-old mutt with a needle mark on its front right leg, he said.

He also identified what he called a “death kit” that police found in the van. It was filled with syringes and two drugs that only licensed veterinarians can have, he said.


Must be a conspiracy, what with the police, AC, and vets all in on the same lie.

Just keep those fingers in your ears and keep singing "lalalala" at the top of your lungs....

[flvegan]

323. Man, are you tapped out or what?

The police are inconsequential, doing their job properly.

So, you have quotes from one vet and one AC officer. Wow. Yeah, that's pretty incriminating. Hell, we could probably impeach Bush with those same two folks.

Yeah, lalalala. Better than the brainwashing you've become subject to.

I keep meaning to ask where your handle comes from. Love of the breed, I suppose?

[JJswans]

338. Pound seizure

>>This isn't a discussion about pound seizure.
This is a discussion of PeTA obtaining adoptable animals under false pretense, killing them, and disposing of the bodies in a dumpster.<<

No, actually it is a discussion about removing animals from a bad situation and improving their situation. Whether that be taking them before pound seizure, or humanely euthanizing them before inept shelters and vets euthanize them with harsher methods - it's really the same difference. And adoptable only means that they are suitable to live with humans, not that there are enough humans willing to adopt them. There are millions of adoptable animals dying in this country's shelters every year. Why focus on Peta? They aren't the ones that caused the problem. They were only trying to do the best they could for animals that were in a lousy situation.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

350. How do you figure they were humanely euthanized?

They were put into a van, and then killed in plain sight of each other in very close quarters. That is why the PETA employees have been charged with 31 felony counts of animal cruelty. And it is generally thought that puppies and kittens have pretty good chances of being adopted if they are given that chance.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

301. Hey, at least they didn't eat them...

after they slaughtered them...

[redqueen]

110. That would be the sane thing to do, yes. n/t

[NoKillShelterGuy]

300. Presumed innocent? They were "caught in the act"...

and the 31 felony warrants have already been issued. That's no longer in the "investigation" stage...

[Dogmudgeon]

16. .

[flvegan]

22. I'll be sure to remember this thread.

The next time ANY Dem has implications for any wrong doing, I'll paint my whole party with the same paint. I hope that there aren't any Dem pedophiles, cuz I'd hate to have to equate an entire party with pedophilia. Wonder if anyone working for the DNC or Dean or anyone else has ever been accused of something out of character.

I have never, ever been so disappointed with this group before. Your collective hatred of PETA shows that the KoolAid has been ingested by the same folks that so vehemently speak of it's evils, scoff at it's partakers and jest at the ignorance of those involved.

If a PETA employee (possible infiltrator, maybe?) did this, then so be it. Prosecute the criminal. I don't think that any action such as this has the overwhelming endorsement of the organization, and the argument that PETA might endorse same should bring cause for you to wonder why you think this.

Check the mirror, folks. I also find this terribly funny considering the stance of the orig. poster on animal issues.

This is bullshit, plain and simple. But hey, drink up. The Kool Aid is quite refreshing. Watching colleagues jump all over this like fleas on a rat really opens my eyes. Thanks for that. But then, what is to be expected. I watched the lynch mob drool for Jackos blood recently, too...

[LisaL]

25. Yes, I don't like Peta.

:eyes:
I think they don't want anyone to own pets, so they rather kill the animals than have someone own them.

[flvegan]

31. And you base this on...?

[Kool Kitty]

34. And you think that-

Why?

[peacebuzzard]

70. Lizzy, Lizzy, why do you generalize?

P.S. I need coffee.

:boring: :donut: Wish I could do the donut--must stick to dieting

[SkyeTerrier]

29. Shoot the messenger, eh?

Is that the best you can do? What part of PeTA killing and dumping dead dogs did you not understand?

If you are truly an animal rights activist you should be appalled, not spewing excuses for PeTA.

[flvegan]

32. Heh heh. I'm considering the source on this post.

Don't you have declawing to defend? Cropped ears to stand up for?

Where's your proof that PETA is behind this? Glug glug glug...KoolAid, service for one.

If PETA is found to be behind this, then I'll stand corrected. YOU, however, are witch hunting (big damn surprise).

You don't want the best I can do.

[Kool Kitty]

37. I agree.

[SkyeTerrier]

38. and I quote.....

From the article:

Yesterday (Wednesday) law enforcement officials with the Ahoskie Police and Bertie County Sheriff's Office were able to observe a white panel van drive next to the commercial dumpster located behind Piggly Wiggly in Newmarket Shopping Center. A person in the van tossed several dark-colored bags in the dumpster before the van attempted to pull away.

At that time, a traffic stop was initiated on the van - a vehicle occupied by Cook and Hinkle.

The bags located in the dumpster contained 18 dead dogs, including one bag containing seven puppies. An additional 13 dead dogs were found in the van.

A license check revealed the van was registered to PETA in Norfolk, Va.


Thank you for showing your true colors as a wild-eyed, raving fanatic. You are clearly unable to accept any criticism or wrongdoing by your beloved leaders. (who does that remind you of....)

[flvegan]

39. Again, so if let's say

someone were driving a van registered to ANYONE in the Dem party, and that person then committed a crime, then the entire Dem party would be at fault, right?

Brilliant.

You should check your last statement, my closed minded friend. Don't let your hate blind you (who does THAT remind you of????).

[SkyeTerrier]

190. My point is...

As an animal rights activist, you should be absolutely appalled at the actions of these individuals. Instead, you're stammering and sputtering every excuse you can think of.

These two EMPLOYEES of PeTA were following orders, the only thing they did wrong was dump the bodies in a dumpster. By your logic, killing a chicken for KFC is wrong, but killing a kitten in the name of PeTA is just great.....

[flvegan]

193. Following orders? Whose orders?

You stammer and sputter, and your strawman ploy doesn't work here. Shore it up before you get caught in a real discussion.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

305. So, what would it take...

for you to believe that PETA was behind this?

They were driving a PETA van. They were on the PETA clock. They were acting as agents of PETA with the vets. They killed the animals in accordance with PETA's published policies. They are not the first PETA employees to euthanize animals, in fact euthanization is part of PETA's policy. The Owner of PETA says they were working for her.

WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT???

[flvegan]

321. Okay, one question at a time...

Driving a PETA van: yes.

On the PETA clock: you know this from...?

Acting as agents of PETA with the vets: you don't know who made what deal with what vet, nor what the truth is, only the statements made by the vet.

They killed the animals: Again, nothing shows them pushing the needle. Considering that PETA offers a humane alternative to the gassing of these animals, I'd call it a more proper end in loving hands (that's euthanasia, look it up). However, somehow, they alleged to have put down 31 plus animals in minutes. No vet I know could do that.

Judging by your handle and your take on this, I'd guess you have no tolerance for open-intake shelters ("kill" in your handbook). But then, I'm assuming based on what you've put out there.

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

62. you should know how many here HATE PETA-Why? doesn't make sense

I just give'm hell every time they gang up against PETA-
You're right-as you said there is a "collective hatred of PETA" at DU.
We must ask why because it doesn't make sense at all.
PETA helps the environment both directly and indirectly.
Aren't the Dems supposed to lean toward anti corporate interests and those who fight for "rights"? rights of animals are "rights"-These guys support the rights of "people" exclusively?

Some of these Anti-PETA folks are realizing deep inside that they, by eating animals, actually support the corporate interests whom on the surface they profess to oppose!
Serious internal dilemas are going on in their minds.
I understand. They are in denial and have to push PETA way under the rug and hopefully their internal conflict will go away too.
Good luck to all of them and to their reasoning their way onward toward answers in their own hearts.

[evolvenow]

63. My first thought was that lab that is suing PETA for the undercover video

that was taken by a Peta person working undercover in this HORRIBLE lab, doing cruel, needless, terrible experiments on baby animals. The video's were aired and mentioned on TV and it would not surprise me if the lab, Department of Agriculture, a Pharma co. or lobby, fill in the blank is trying to smear PETA.

Also the SHAC trials, they are trying to discredit people working AGAINST VIOLENCE and CRUELTY.

Be very careful to judge, as that is the poison this adminstration is passing out, building suspicion and fear, not even necessarily true nor linked to the act or organization.

The employee was new, so that raises a huge flag.

REmember, Peta is working to END violence against sentient beings. THey are against cruelty and torture of sentient beings. Peta does not kill pets!!!

Someone is acting like a murderer, that does not mean that PETA knew nor would tolerate such atrocious actions.

No one knows the real story, so I want to know the facts before I judge.
*********************************

Lab in question passed Agriculture Department scrutiny

From Kathy Benz & Michael McManus
CNN Washington Bureau
Tuesday, May 17, 2005 Posted: 9:17 PM EDT (0117 GMT)

A lab monkey is strapped to a table in this image from a video provided by PETA.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/17/peta.lab/YOUR E-MAIL ALERTS



WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A leading animal rights group has accused a northern Virginia laboratory of animal cruelty -- including charges of punching and choking lab monkeys -- and has produced a videotape to prove it. People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals released its findings after an 11-month undercover investigation at an animal-testing lab owned by Covance, a Princeton, New Jersey-based company.

PETA has sent the 253-page complaint and a videotape to the Department of Agriculture, requesting the lab be shut down until an investigation can be conducted.

A spokesman for the group says the video was shot at the facility and shows violations of the Federal Animal Welfare Act.

PETA's undercover investigator was hired by Covance as a technician in its primate toxicology department. Between April 26, 2004 and March 11, 2005, she taped activity inside the laboratory primate rooms.

According to PETA, she compiled the information and the video because of recurring alleged violations of animal battery, abuse and neglect.

"The tape shows experimenters using their power over the monkeys to torture and torment them, while lab supervisors stand by or even join in," said PETA President Ingrid Newkirk.

(snip)


kick for the truth

[LisaL]

65. PETA doesn't kill pets? LOL. PETA doesn't oppose to

euthanasia. Get it?
They think euthanasia is better in many cases than other options. So, why should it be shocking that some of their employees picked up dogs from shelters and killed them?

[flvegan]

69. Nonsense.

PETA, like many individuals, may well be faced with the dire task of deciding that an animal is suffering enough that euthanasia is the only option for that animal.

What you've just stated puts every person that's ever had to have their pet euthanized in the same category as these two individuals. You have suggested that I might go to a shelter to pick up animals just to kill them.

Just because you don't like PETA, don't insult a humane act.

[LisaL]

72. You might not go to a shelter to pick up animals just to kill them.

But these two employees of Peta apparently did. They picked up the dogs, killed them and dumped their bodies. And yet you feel compelled to defend that.

[flvegan]

75. Nice try...almost.

I didn't defend them or their actions. I defended PETA. You don't seem to be able to grasp that concept through your hatred of them. Sort of prejudices your opinion.

[LisaL]

96. How exactly do you defend them?

Even Peta president said they were supposed to pick up the dogs from shelters to be euthanized. So, these 2 weren't just running wild killing dogs against the company policy.
By the way, the 2 also killed some cats and little kittens. Nice going, a$$holes!

[flvegan]

117. Where in this article did Newkirk say that?

I've read and reread it, but I'm not seeing it. Where did it say that "the 2" killed any of the animals? They are alleged to have been dumping dead animals, yes, but now they have killed them. I don't know...maybe you were there. I wasn't, and the article doesn't say anything remotely close to that.

[LisaL]

130. How did the animals get dead, do you think?

They were alive that very day when picked up from shelters.
Or are you suggesting more Peta members might have been involved, in addition to 2 caught dumping the bodies?

[flvegan]

131. At least you're having fun with this.

Because I can't imagine you're remotely serious with some of your responses.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

307. It's called a "presumption"...

They picked up the animals while they were alive. A short while later, they were caught throwing away the bodies, which bore the marks of a syringe. Inside the van was a syringe and drugs used to kill animals.

Obviously, the beef/pork/chicken industry tasered the PETA employees, executed the animals, and framed the PETA employees. Once the PETA people regained contol of their bodies, and rather than report the crime to the police, they decided that they should simply dispose of all evidence of the beef/pork/chicken industry's criminal acts. Oh, and BTW, this was the fourth time in a month that this exact thing happened.

[flvegan]

332. Okay, so by your definition

presumption means guilt. I hope that you're never on the other side...the receiving end.

You're situational comedy that you wrote here is ripe. Sell it.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

306. Wrong. PETA encourages...

the trapping and execution of all feral cats. Their website says so. In fact, it says that people should not let worrying about euthanizing cats bother them, that it is much more humane to trap, terrify, and execute ferals than it is to trap, spay, and release them. After all, feral cats eat birds, and PETA likes birds.



Or is their website just the deranged act of a single rogue PETA employee?

[Lilith Velkor]

319. "a few bad apples"

That quote reminds me of something. Hmm... :think:

[Sterling]

127. You ae 100% correct.

These people have some serious personal issues to deal with. I would pity them but I can't.

[Vladimir]

169. Yeah, but by eating pretty much anything

you are supporting the corporate interests. If everyone turned vegan tomorrow, corporations would find a way to profit off it yesterday. At the risk of sounding trite, the answer is socialism, not animal rights.

[Lilith Velkor]

186. But but but

Doesn't that mean we can't sneer down our self-righteous noses at people who are too poor to shop at organic supermarkets?!

Can't have that now. :sarcasm:

[redqueen]

109. There's around 10 people on the thread

being critical of PETA. Only a few of which are taking this incident as an opportunity to bash them for the un-sanctioned acts of a couple of members.

No need to be so defensive. People on this board disagree about a lot of things. I wouldn't say they "hate" PETA, just that they don't appreciate their tactics.

In this case there's no reason to include PETA in the criticism, I agree with that. They denounced it and it's the work of a couple of individuals, not the organization. I just thought your post seemed to be a bit of an overreaction to the few people who were really saying this incident has anything to do with PETA as an organization.

[flvegan]

121. This is an ongoing thing here.

Every time PETA is mentioned, they come out of the woodwork to denounce PETA and animal rights in general.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

308. Redqueen, UNSANCTIONED????

Have you read PETA's official policy regarding ferals? It's 100% euthanasia. They recommend AGAINST taking ferals into your home, instead prefering to execute them.

[bitchkitty]

214. Calm down baby -

Check the user names - and look at other PETA threads - it's not the whole of DU making fools out of themselves, - it's just the usual suspects making fools out of themselves.

DU rocks - even with the anti-PETA people.

Edited for politeness

[katamaran]

28. We're covering it at my TV station

http://www.wvec.com/news/topstories/stories/wvec_local_061605_peta_ahoskie.16979920.html

I can literally hit the PETA building with a spitball from where I'm sitting right now. The theory a few people have been floating around is that they may be PETA infiltrators trying to make PETA look bad. Be that or not, these two are still despicable f*ckers.

[shockra]

30. PETA infiltrators.

I've been thinking about that too. The Center for Consumer Freedom has a website to smear PETA called petakillsanimals.com, and they'd love nothing better than a way to prove it. They recently put a petakillsanimals.com billboard up in Times Square too.

CCF is a front group for the tobacco, alcohol and meat industries if anyone didn't know.

[katamaran]

36. One argument against it...

Who the hell would be so stupid as to infiltrate PETA with the intention of being caught to make PETA look bad? They would obviously be going to prison for a good while. I know in VA that animal cruelty has been upgraded to a felony, with a minimum of one year in prison, but I don't know what NC's laws are. Depends on whether they were killed in VA or in NC. NC can get them on the illegal disposal charges, a misdemeanor, but the killing.....whole other ballgame.

[ElectroPrincess]

48. Thank you - A voice of reason. They don't stand for that ...

As a group they stand for the ETHICAL TREAMENT of Animals. This smacks of a frame.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

310. Are you saying that PETA does not support euthanasia?

because their website says differently.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

309. Uh huh...

and there are people who still think the moon landings were faked.

If you read much PETA stuff, you will find that they support euthanasia of pets, and euthanasia of ferals. If you are a dog or cat, falling into PETA's hands is a death sentence. This time they got caught.

[flvegan]

42. Thank you, everyone!

Thanks for putting PETA's name in the forefront again. It's much appreciated. Surely any person that would think that PETA, the organization, would back this atrocious behaviour is little more than an imbecile. Sort of like the Pope backing one of his minions in harming a child sexually. But I digress.

Thankfully, this will likely be little more than a burp in the grand scheme of PETA's agenda of spreading compassion towards all life, human and animal alike.

Thanks again for putting the PETA name out there to be seen by all.

[blue northern]

44. uh-huh..who's got the broad brush and kool-aid again?

Surely any person that would think that PETA, the organization, would back this atrocious behaviour is little more than an imbecile. Sort of like the Pope backing one of his minions in harming a child sexually. But I digress.

Thankfully, this will likely be little more than a burp in the grand scheme of PETA's agenda of spreading compassion towards all life, human and animal alike.
Thanks again for putting the PETA name out there to be seen by all.

[flvegan]

50. I don't see your point.

My statement backs a mission statement backed by over 25 years of action. I think that the broad brush statement you make is lacking. Sort of like saying the NAACP supports the KKK or that the SPLC is in bed with skinheads. But then, hey, maybe Greenpeace is secretly logging the Pacific Northwest, Amnesty International is using sweatshop labor to make their sweatshirts, and the ACLU is backing the Patriot Act, just to cover all it's options.

Welcome to DU, anyway.

[blue northern]

57. Thanks for the welcome

The broad brush I was referring to was your statement that anyone who didn't share your particular view was surely an imbecile.

The kool-aid?
What brought that to mind was your thank you (to who exactly I'm not sure) for associating PETA's name with dog butchering.

At this point I'm skeptical that PETA sanctioned this type of thing.
I'll wait and see what else develops.

[Sterling]

153. You would have to be pretty dumd to think this was done by PETA

or is some sort of PETA policy.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

312. PETA's policy:

Because of the huge number of feral cats and the severe shortage of good homes, the difficulty of socialization, and the dangers lurking where most feral cats live, it may be necessary and the most compassionate choice to euthanize feral cats. You can ask your veterinarian to do this or, if your local shelter uses an injection of sodium pentobarbital, take the cats there. Please do not allow the prospect of euthanasia to deter you from trapping cats. If you leave them where they are, they will almost certainly die a painful death. A painless injection is far kinder than any fate that feral cats will meet if left to survive on their own.

[livinginphotographs]

51. Typically, on DU

we like to quote and then comment on the quote. Personally, I agree with flvegan, but since I assume you don't, I'm curious as to why since you didn't really add anything to the conversation.

[ElectroPrincess]

54. The larger organization - PETA - should NOT be linked ...

It's like the San Diego Police officer who murdered young women over a period of years undetected during the 80s ... that would BRING DOWN the entire City Police Department?

Get real. If these people ID'd themselves as PETA, they were wrong to do so and were not keeping with the charter of the organization.

How 'bout we all "give a little" credit to both sides (those who support and those who do NOT support PETA) ... is the above a somewhat pausable scenario?

Nobody wears the white hat in this situation.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

313. Really?

"Because of the huge number of feral cats and the severe shortage of good homes, the difficulty of socialization, and the dangers lurking where most feral cats live, it may be necessary and the most compassionate choice to euthanize feral cats. You can ask your veterinarian to do this or, if your local shelter uses an injection of sodium pentobarbital, take the cats there. Please do not allow the prospect of euthanasia to deter you from trapping cats. If you leave them where they are, they will almost certainly die a painful death. A painless injection is far kinder than any fate that feral cats will meet if left to survive on their own."

That's from PETA's website. These were not rogue employees. These were employees who were acting in their capacity as PETA employees, using PETA owned vehicles and drugs, and carrying out PETA's organizational goals.

[DS1]

52. Sounds like Necropheliacs getting jobs at morgues

to me

[dissent1977]

56. Alright this article seems like it might be misleading

I don't see any connection to PETA as an organization here. It is possible they have a couple members that are guilty of cruelty to animals, but there is no clear connection to the leadership of PETA.

I think there are a lot of people who hate PETA and would like to smear their name who would like to connect this to PETA, but I don't think they have a case at this point. Let's not blame an entire organization for the alleged actions of a couple members.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

58. That sounds completely logical...

Too bad there are folks here who love to jump down PETA's throat at every opportunity. :eyes:

I think a full investigation is needed and anyone involved prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[LisaL]

89. Hello? Peta's president said that the 2 were picking up

the dogs from the shelter and bringing them back to Peta headquarters for euthanizing. Sounds like the 2 did exactly what Peta wanted them to do, except for dumping of bodies.
"The two were picking up animals to be brought back to PETA headquarters for euthanization, PETA president Ingrid Newkirk said Thursday."
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/17/peta.arrests.ap/index.html

[livinginphotographs]

97. That was not a direct quote from Newkirk.

CNN was paraphrasing something she said. I'm still skeptical, and the reason I'm skeptical is because those of us familiar with the area, and the building itself, know that there are no animals being euthanized at PETA HQ.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

315. Right, they euthanize them in vans and then dump the bodies.

eom

[livinginphotographs]

345. You've been busy today, haven't you?

Did a vegan pelt you with broccoli today, or are the trolls just tag-teaming, because you sure have been busy today.

I was through with you a while ago - I'm just as through now. Maybe you can spend the extra time working on that profile of yours.

[NoKillShelterGuy]

314. Except, of course

that they were following official PETA policy, using PETA assets and PETA's name, and working towards a PETA goal while being paid to do so by PETA...

[nikraye]

59. PETA under recent attack by Repugs, FBI, ATF

Article last month wherein a Repug Senator specifically targeted PETA as contributing to "terrorist" animal rights and environmentalist groups.

Look for more negative propaganda on PETA and other rights groups in the near future. This is propaganda in the all-too-familiar style of BushCo and their despotic fellow repugs. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to one day discover that these two individuals were indeed plants and that this whole mess was staged to bolster the newest targets of the FBI, ATF, Republicans, and Homeland Security. I love how in the article, the FBI admits that not one death can be attributed to any of the animal rights or environmentalist activists, yet they still consider these groups to "pose one of the most serious terrorism threats to the nation." Anti-choice groups, skinheads, and the KKK have ALL committed far more heinous acts of domestic terror, and all have committed violent acts of murder, yet the FBI and ATF dismiss any concern for these groups. Absolutely amazing.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/05/19/domestic.terrorism/

snip

Inhofe alleges PETA link

Senate Environment Committee Chairman James Inhofe estimated the cost of damages from militant environmental and animal rights supporters at more than $110 million in the past decade.

"Just like al Qaeda or any other terrorist movement, ELF and ALF cannot accomplish their goals without money, membership and the media," the Republican senator from Oklahoma said.

Inhofe said there was "a growing network of support for extremists like ELF and ALF," and he singled out People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals for giving money to members of both groups.

PETA claims more than 800,000 members. Its president, Ingrid Newkirk, declined to appear at the hearing, but general counsel Jeffrey Kerr denied Inhofe's allegation in a written statement.

"PETA has no involvement with alleged ALF or ELF actions. PETA does not support terrorism. PETA does not support violence," Kerr said.

"In fact PETA exists to fight the terrorism and violence inflicted on billions of animals annually in the meat, dairy, experimentation, tobacco, fur, leather, and circus industries."

[shance]

60. Not to mention the beef/meat industry and the pharmaceutical industry,

two of the wealthiest industries and lobbies in America with a huge agenda and utilization for animals.

Heck, just ask Oprah.

[RebelOne]

66. Oh no, another PETA thread!

Let the PETA bashing begin.

[The Stranger]

82. Amazing, no? Seeing Right Wing talking points all over the boards.

PETA is "extremist." Ewwwww.

PETA "puts animals above humans." Apparently, humans are no longer members of the biosphere's animal kingdom. Sounds a bit like the anti-science creationism or the Christian Reich.

[RalphReedsWreckedEm]

67. I'm sure Fats Limbaugh will use this as his distraction du jour

He and the rest of his wannabe army will blather and spew over this all day and all night until the chumps who listen to that garbage forget all about any of that silly liberal torture nonsense....

[NorthernSpy]

78. how many of the dead dogs were pit bulls?

I believe that Ingrid Newkirk is in favor of making pit bulls extinct. A lot of shelter dogs are pits, and these animals frequently end up in the hands of people who want to use them as dogs o' war.


Just something that might possibly shed a little light on this -- or not, depending on what an investigation of the incident reveals.

[shockra]

84. Extinct is excessive wording.

Ingrid's opinion on pit bulls:

Controlling an animal as deadly as a weapon

Ingrid Newkirk
Wednesday, June 8, 2005

Most people have no idea that at many animal shelters across the country, any pit bull that comes through the front door doesn't go out the back door alive. From California to New York, many shelters have enacted policies requiring the automatic destruction of the huge and ever-growing number of "pits" they encounter. This news shocks and outrages the compassionate dog-lover.

Here's another shocker: People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, the very organization that is trying to get you to denounce the killing of chickens for the table, foxes for fur or frogs for dissection, supports the shelters' pit-bull policy, albeit with reluctance. We further encourage a ban on breeding pit bulls.

The pit bull's ancestor, the Staffordshire terrier, is a human concoction, bred in my native England, I'm ashamed to say, as a weapon. These dogs were designed specifically to fight other animals and kill them, for sport. Hence the barrel chest, the thick hammer-like head, the strong jaws, the perseverance and the stamina. Pits can take down a bull weighing in at over a thousand pounds, so a human being a tenth of that weight can easily be seriously hurt or killed.

Pit bulls are perhaps the most abused dogs on the planet. These days, they are kept for protection by almost every drug dealer and pimp in every major city and beyond. You can drive into any depressed area and see them being used as cheap burglar alarms, wearing heavy logging chains around their necks (they easily break regular collars and harnesses), attached to a stake or metal drum or rundown doghouse without a floor and with holes in the roof. Bored juveniles sic them on cats, neighbors' small dogs and even children.

In the PETA office, we have a file drawer chock-full of accounts of attacks in which these ill-treated dogs with names like "Murder" and "Homicide" have torn the faces and fingers off infants and even police officers trying to serve warrants. Before I co-founded PETA, I served as the chief of animal-disease control and director of the animal shelter in the District of Columbia for many years. Over and over again, I waded into ugly situations and pulled pit bulls from people who beat and starved them, or chained them to metal drums as "guard" dogs, or trained them to attack people and other animals. It is this abuse, and the tragedy that comes from it, that motivates me.

more...

http://www.indybay.org/news/2005/06/1746347.php

I know what she's saying about "perhaps the most abused dog on the planet." I've been watching the Animal Planet show Animal Cops for just a couple of months, and virtually every night there's a pit bull story. Pit bull left for dead in alley after an illegal dogfight. Pit bull puppy left chained in a bathroom and starved to death, the only thing in its stomach pieces of a ceramic food bowl. Pit bulls kept for fighting, with animals in cages nearby such as a raccoon for it to attack. Pit bull kills someone's Yorkshire Terrier as the owner walks by with it on a downtown street. Other docile dogs kept to train someone's pit bull to attack. Pit bull left chained and starving on a fire escape. And on and on...

Most of the pit bulls are too aggressive to be adopted out, and have to be euthanized. At least on one show one found a home with a foster.

[NorthernSpy]

79. they killed cats too!

This would seem to contradict somewhat my pit bull theory:

Among the dead animals... authorities found a female cat and her two “very adoptable” kittens taken from Ahoskie Animal Hospital, veterinarian Patrick Proctor said.

“These were just kittens we were trying to find homes for,” Proctor said. “PETA said they would do that, but these cats never made it out of the county.”

:cry:

Newkirk said of Hinkle: “She’s the Mother Teresa of animals. She’s a very kind, decent person.”

I hope I'm never at the mercy of anyone that "kind" and "decent".

[LisaL]

92. Peta members -the cat killers! How freaking awful!

I think they rather see the animals dead than adopted.

[Kool Kitty]

234. What makes you think that they would rather

see animals dead than adopted? Why would you say that?

[LisaL]

94. More like Dr. Kevorkian of animals.

[shockra]

98. You are aware that animal shelters...

Euthanize millions of animals each year. Do you hate them too?

How dare they call themselves "shelters" when they kill more than they adopt out. They must prefer killing them!

[LisaL]

103. Yes, if those are adoptable animals, I don't think

shelters should be quite as fast to pull the trigger!

[flvegan]

136. Ever been to one? Ever volunteered?

Not likely. Tell you what, now that you've really touched a sore spot, why don't you head down to your local open-intake ("kill") shelter and check out what they have to do. This nation's shelters euthanize 5-7 million companion animals per year. They oftentimes "pull the trigger" as you so put it because they have to. It's not out of joy, fiendish desire or bloodlust. It's about space.

Did you know that techs and vets that euthanize these animals need SUPPORT GROUPS just to get through what they do? Did you? No.

When you can push that needle like so many loving and caring shelterr workers do, every day, then you can talk. You obviously have NO idea what you're talking about in this aspect.

When we stop breeding them for profit and spay/neuter aggressively, we get to stop killing them.

[NorthernSpy]

150. Hinkle and Cook said they 'd find homes for the cat and her kittens

That's why the vet's office handed the little family over to them -- a fatal mistake, as we now know.

Hinkle and Cook lied in order to persuade people to give them animals. The animals didn't just somehow fall into their laps, and in lethally injecting them they weren't just doing their duty as shelter workers. This miserable pair operated under false pretenses in order to get their hands on those luckless beasts.

A person does not have to somehow "earn" the right to condemn that sort of thing.

[Name removed]

154. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

163. alrighty, then... here's the vet's statement:

"PETA had come by yesterday afternoon and picked up a mother cat and two young kittens and told us they were going to find homes for them in the Virginia area, and put them in a white van exactly matching the description of the white van we saw last night. It's just not right to take animals and just kill them and dump them in a county. They deserve a good burial," says Proctor.

http://www.wnct.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WNCT/MGArticle/NCT_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1031783337916&path=

What do you think of this now?


Oh, and where does it say that they specifically injected the animals? Well, a number of the news stories have mentioned that a 6-month-old puppy had a fresh injection mark on his leg, and that the van contained syringes and vials of two drugs that only vets may legally posess.

[flvegan]

164. I think it's inconclusive.

PETA picked up a mother cat and two young kittens. Were those animals in this group of dead animals? Was it the same individuals picking up those animals.

Which 2 drugs were in the van?

[NorthernSpy]

133. the body count is over 70 now...

Apparently, the police have been finding bags of dogs and cats for quite a while.


:(

[Catchawave]

173. Hmmmmm....wonder why

513 piggies suffocating to death on a "food farm" isn't discussion worthy ? Same area, and PETA was leading that investigation.

Tell ya what guys, PETA doesn't have gazillions in donations supporting Dumpster Drop Offs.....something smells about this whole story. Hey, we're Democrats, I know it's in my blood to "smell rats", no offense to rats that is.

:evilgrin:

[SkyeTerrier]

191. OK, then....

Why is a chicken killed for KFC horrible, but a kitten killed by PeTA just fine and dandy?

It's not like KFC was promising to find that chicken a good home either....

[flvegan]

195. Who said this?

Seriously, you should download an application for FoxNews. They can use a spinner like you.

[SkyeTerrier]

204. It is a simple logical conclusion

You (and PeTA followers) protest KFC for "murdering" chickens, yet you're positively falling all over yourself to defend PeTA killing kittens.

Then again, that's the heart of the ethical veg*n arguement: It's OK to kill them, but mind how you dispose of the bodies.

[shockra]

207. ?

What part of -- advocating humane killing over brutal death -- do you not understand?

[NorthernSpy]

208. !

You wrote:

What part of -- advocating humane killing over brutal death -- do you not understand?

What part of lying in order to deprive puppies and kittens of their chance to live do YOU not understand?

:eyes:

[shockra]

238. Get a grip, NorthernSpy.

Underlining it doesn't make it so.

[Kool Kitty]

235. A logical conclusion.

Right.

[SkyeTerrier]

245. Well then, explain how I'm wrong...

Quick review of prevailing PETA logic here:

Killing animals for meat= Wrong and horribly cruel
Killing animals in the production of veg*n food= Fine and dandy
Killing companion animals= Fine and dandy
Dumping dead companion animals in a dumpster= Wrong, but not cruel

[flvegan]

80. PETA says they will be holding a news conference today about this.

Hopefully we'll get the answers we're looking for.

[shockra]

85. That's good.

The sooner this is straightened out, the better.

[SkyeTerrier]

218. Video of news coverage of the "conference"

http://www.wavy10.com/video/peta-arrest.htm

[Name removed]

87. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

91. No way what?

They did it, they were caught in the act, and Peta president said that the 2 were picking the dogs from shelters for euthanizing.
Apparently, the only thing they did wrong is to dump the bodies, otherwise, they were doing what Peta wanted them to do, which is pick the dogs up from shelters and kill them.

[livinginphotographs]

99. I wonder how many of those in this thread

Expressing horror at the euthanization of cats and dogs (not this particular case, but in general) would give a shit if it was a cow or a chicken. Very few, I'd be willing to bet.

[LisaL]

102. I wonder why Peta is screaming bloody murder,

when it comes to treatment of chickens, but has their members picking up dogs and cats from shelters and killing them?

[redqueen]

118. That's a reckless and irresponsible statement.

You don't know that PETA "Has their members" doing this, yet you're acting as if that's been proven.

Please stop. You're embarassing yourself.

[LisaL]

128. I go on their president saying the 2 were supposed to pick

the dogs up and euthanize them, according to the article. What do you go on?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/06/17/peta.arrests.ap/index.html

[livinginphotographs]

132. Selective resonses, nice.

I repeat - that was not a direct quote from Newkirk. It was paraphrased. And since PETA absolutely does not euthanize animals at its HQ (that is an absolute lie started by Penn & Teller, great sources there, and promoted by the right-wing "advocacy" group CCF), it makes me skeptical as to whether she actually said that.

You can keep putting your hands over your ears and singing to yourself, but it doesn't make what you say anymore true.

[redqueen]

142. Well *that's* interesting.

I was going by the statements of the people here that PETA had denounced the actions.

Reading this, it seems the only action they could possibly have denounced was the act of putting the carcasses in the dumpster. ?

:shrug:

However, it's not a direct quote...

[livinginphotographs]

122. My experience with PETA proves you wrong.

They do not go to shelters, pick up as many animals as possible, then kill them. I truly do disagree with their policy of euthanizing any animals at all that are not deathly ill, by the way.

It's still fun to point out how you people only care about the cute animals as opposed to all of them.

[Kool Kitty]

236. Maybe because they hadn't had their members

doing this.

[justiceischeap]

272. The difference between a member and employee

Members are people who donate money to people. Employees are people hired in the organization. The two folks involved are employees, not members.

[NorthernSpy]

139. funny how killing animals for protein is unenlightened and dreadful...

... but killing them because you can't be troubled to find homes for them is just ducky. :eyes:


Self-appointed moral elites always make exceptions for themselves. Always.

[livinginphotographs]

141. I disagree with PETA's policy of euthanizing ferals

who aren't sick. That said...

Funny how killing animals humanely because they are considered unadoptable (because humans abandoned them or abused them) or gravely ill is horrible, but cruelly slaughtering the less cute ones because you like hamburgers is okay.

It's not elitist to think that something is morally wrong, except when you disagree with it, I guess.

[justiceischeap]

273. PETA doesn't actively euthanize feral kitties.

There's a colony that they care for on a daily basis. They are trapped, spayed/neutered, their ear clipped (so they know which ones have been spayed/neutered) and then released. They are fed daily and there is housing for them as well.

[flvegan]

143. Can't be troubled to find homes for them?

Shelters euthanize millions of companion animals in this country every year because there aren't enough homes for them all.

Go volunteer in an open-intake shelter, and see how those other volunteers and staff are troubled deeply trying to find homes, yet still have to put some of them down. Many of PETA's employees volunteer and perform at a grassroots level with shelters.

I'm sorry, but your post was pretty crass.

[LisaL]

156. Let me ask you again. Do you think Peta members

did nothing wrong by picking these dogs and cats from shelters and vets and killing them? I don't get what point you are trying to make? That euthanasia is the right thing to do?

[flvegan]

165. Spin it baby!

You're as bad as Fox.

[SkyeTerrier]

242. From the looks of it...

The only one doing the spinning on this is Ingrid, and she appears to be a whirling dervish at the moment.

http://www.wavy10.com/video/peta-arrest.htm

[flvegan]

244. What spin?

As has been stated, PETA doesn't keep it a secret that they, when asked, euthanize unwanted animals. The disposal of the bodies was wrong, it appears, but these animals didn't suffer.

I found it intriguing that one of the accusers stated that after picking up 31 animals, "minutes later" they were in the dumpster. For a couple of non-vets, alone, that's impossible.

As I stated previously, if PETA is providing a service that gives a humane option to gassing or shooting these animals because nobody else will do it, then attacking them for it makes you as bad as the individuals that put the animals there in the first place.

What's good, though, SkyeTerrier, is that in the almost 1 year you've been here at DU, you've practically DOUBLED your post count with this one thread. I won't hazard a guess at why...

[NorthernSpy]

158. Hickle and Cook actively SOUGHT animals...

... under the pretense of intending to find homes for them. That's why the vet's office let them have the mother cat and her kittens.

That's a far cry from the plight of a shelter worker who kills the unwanted because it's either that or turn them loose to fend for themselves.

[flvegan]

168. You and I have discussed if these 2 folks were the specific persons

that sought out these animals. If it were so, then I guess PETA is in the clear, as these 2 were operating outside of PETA's scope. The vet's office may not have let these 2 specific folks have those cats, nor has anyone stated that THOSE cats are in this bunch of dead animals.

Please don't tell me that you've started trusting msm to give you all the facts rather than soundbytes???

[SkyeTerrier]

316. Amazing, isn't it?

I dare you to bring up the topic of Collateral Deaths with any "ethical veg*n" or PeTA fanatic. It's always entertaining....

[flvegan]

322. So bring it up. What do you want to discuss about it?

At this rate, you'll hit 100 posts soon! You should be pleased.

[komplex]

105. I want to know

Where did they get 70K for bail?
The Peta Porn side business must be doing OK.

[flvegan]

124. PETA porn side business? Oh, do tell. I hope you have links

and something from someone reputable, ie NOT consumerfreedom...

[SkyeTerrier]

217. Ingrid Newkirk posted their bail.

Article cited below.

[flvegan]

275. Innocent until proven guilty, remember that one?

Of course she posted their bail. To not post bail would be like admitting some sort of guilt. See, Ingrid has ethics. She'll stand behind her employees until it's proven they've done something that violates PETA's policy. Then, I'm sure she'll deal with them as appropriate.

[anotherdrew]

160. PETA = agent provocateur, a cloaked CIA operation

they suck in a bunch of idealistic kids and waste their time that they could have used accomplishing actual political objectives. If in 3000 years Buddhists have failed to convince humanity to treat animals with as much respect as each other (or preferably more since we don't do to well by each other often), PETA isn't going to make one drop of difference. All it does it paint a caricature of "the left" in the minds of many pushing people into the arms of the repug party.

These two were taking these dogs from an animal shelter... under pretense of "finding them new homes" these animals found in the dumper had been taken earlier THAT DAY. Anyway, PETA is no more capable of finding a home than existing shelters, and have no business getting in over their heads on this in the first place.

[anotherdrew]

161. all that being said I strongly suspect Cook

They started finding dead animals about 4 weeks earlier, that sounds like the time he was hired. How do you suppose he got his much more experienced parter to go along with this?

[livinginphotographs]

171. You aren't really suggesting that PETA is a CIA front, are you?

Because that would be the absolute wackiest thing I've ever heard on DU, and that's an accomplishment.

So since it's not going to do any good, let's just keep ripping tracheas out of live cows, and skinning and boiling live chickens, and beating the shit out of lab monkeys for no apparent reason. Is that what you're saying?

Hell, the neocons still exist despite our best efforts, so why even bother posting on DU?

[anotherdrew]

177. not originally

[AngryAmish]

174. Why does PETA want to kill dogs?

Dogs are nice and should not be killed. Except for pitbulls. Those thngs are mean.

[Dervill Crow]

178. Oh let's not start on pit bulls again!

My beautiful Staffordshire terrier is one of the loves of my life. She gets along with everyone except for squirrels and Tim Russert, only because their chattering disturbs her Sunday mornings.

[AngryAmish]

179. Was there something said about pitbulls recently?

I kid.

[Dervill Crow]

216. LOL

[Dogmudgeon]

187. Let me restate my case

This is turning into a PeTA Frenzy, like DU's periodic Pedo Frenzies, Spanking Frenzies, and Hillary-is-a-Whore Frenzies.

Personally, I think PeTA has been one of the most silly-assed groups of "reformers" to ever have chained itself to a TV camera, but that's not the issue here.

What PeTA and its agents have done -- that's the issue.

Right now, we don't have enough information about it. We have a very lurid account of a possible crime, and a number of sound bites, some of them rational, and some of them hand-wringing.

A lot of posts here are just unbelievable. People are conflating PeTA with ALF, a group which does advocate violence. Others are claiming that the meat industry is bigger than RCA or Daimler-Chrysler, which would require every person on the Earth to eat several pounds of meat at each meal. The theory that these people were sleeper agents sent by cattlemen to disgrace PeTA has also made the rounds.

In all probability, it was a series of stupid decisions that came to the attention of the police. Radical activists occasionally do dumb things, but who's dumb enough to risk a long prison sentence over the method of disposal of dead dogs? (I myself am a dog lover, but dead is dead.)

Let the investigation proceed. We'll have the facts soon enough.

Either way it breaks, I'm sure PeTA and Ingrid Newkirk are going to have some serious re-thinking to do, about policy or ideology or some combination of the two. If we want to attack/defend PeTA, we should do it from having some actual facts to back us up.

--p!

[shockra]

192. PETA administrator's response.

http://streetteam.peta2.com/public/folder_view.cfm?pageid=341&option=view_thread&postid=1243205&folderid=728

It is against PETA’s policy to put the bodies of animals in dumpsters, and we are appalled that a member of our staff apparently did that. There is no excuse for that and, despite the fact that she is a caring soul, we have suspended her from work.

PETA has always supported and spoken openly about euthanasia. It is easy to throw stones at those doing the dirty work for society, but euthanasia is a necessary evil until the massive animal overpopulation problem can be solved. We invite anyone who can offer a home to any animal, pay for one or a hundred spay/neuter surgeries, or persuade others not to go to a pet shop or breeder, to please join us in doing these things. In the last year, we have spayed/neutered more than 7,600 dogs and cats, including feral animals, many free of charge and all others at well below our own costs. Support for this program is much needed.

To clarify, we do not run an adoption facility, although we do place animals, approximately 360 in the last year, despite having run out of friends and family members to approach. We are a “shelter of last resort,” taking in and giving a painless death in loving arms to animals who would otherwise have been shot with a .22 or gassed in a windowless metal box, which is what happened in North Carolina before PETA offered free euthanasia services to agencies there. North Carolina has the second highest rate per capita of euthanasia in the country—35 animals killed annually for every 1,000 residents—and most do not die a humane death. Sadly, the shelters we work with have no adoption programs or hours set aside for adoption. At the Bertie County dog shelter, residents were throwing unwanted dogs over an 8-foot-high fence, where they became infected or injured by other sick or aggressive dogs from whom they could not escape. Bertie County also had no facility for cats and used to let them go to breed in the woods and fend for themselves until PETA built a shelter for them this year. PETA has begged for years, through formal proposals and numerous meetings to have the county allow PETA to implement an adoption program as part of a larger picture of sheltering that would also include a spay neuter program, a humane education program, 24/7 emergency services, and rabies clinics.

We try never to take in adoptable animals unless we know we have a home for them—only those who are mange-covered, have parvovirus, are injured, old, unsocialized from life on a chain, or unwanted and for whom there are no good homes available. We also work at the roots, spending more than $240,000 in one North Carolina county alone, to provide shelter in winter for animals left out in the cold, to spay/neuter, to get vet care for animals in dire straits, to send Bertie County’s one animal control officer to professional training, to pay a cleaner to maintain two shelters, and much more.

We have always outspokenly advocated fixing the problems of overpopulation through practical methods. Sadly, those stories don’t get coverage in the media.

A recent feature by PETA on their work with NC animals:

http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-nc.asp

[flvegan]

194. Thanks for posting this.

As I recall, PETA offered numerous times to provide financial support for a humane euthanasia program as well. Training, facility, etc.

I understand that this area may not value animals as others do, and/or they may not have the financial resources. However, when someone offers, and you say no (because it's PETA), that makes you a little suspect. But then, there's a lot of prejudice against PETA, as evidenced by this thread.

[LisaL]

202. And you got on permanent rose colored glasses when it

comes to that organization! How evil it is to take an animal from a vet, promising to find that animal a home, and then kill it instead, and dump the body into a dumpster? And this organization calls the very person collecting and killing the animals a "loving soul"? Dr. Kevorkian has a soul more loving than that, IMO. At least he concentrated his efforts on sick and dying.

[flvegan]

203. You consistently avoid this question:

I've asked you this before...where does it say that the specific animals you speak of turned up with these dead ones. It doesn't. You speculate and assume. Seriously, go work for fox.

[LisaL]

205. Did you even read the original article? The dead animals

have been identified as the ones picked just hours before from shelters.
http://www.roanoke-chowannewsherald.com/articles/2005/06/16/news/anews1.txt

There are also links on the thread to Dr. Proctor's statement, who identified dead cat and her kittens as the ones picked up by Peta that very day, with promise to find them a home.
"Among the dead animals, though, authorities found a female cat and her two “very adoptable” kittens taken from Ahoskie Animal Hospital, veterinarian Patrick Proctor said.

“These were just kittens we were trying to find homes for,” Proctor said. “PETA said they would do that, but these cats never made it out of the county.”"
http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87909&ran=70111&tref=po
So, are you really that dense? Or do you just pretend to be?

[flvegan]

222. Not quite as dense as others, obviously.

*cough* ahem.

Anyway. I'll await the court's findings before passing final judgment on the employees involved. PETA still appears to be removed from the errant actions of the 2 charged. Though YOU appear to be judge, jury and whackjob as to PETA's actual involvement.

[Kool Kitty]

237. And you don't seem to know how to answer any

questions.

[flvegan]

247. Reminds me of some rethuglicans I see/read about.

How...odd, huh.

[NorthernSpy]

198. that's just boilerplate and blame-shifting

These people actively sought out those animals under the pretense of intending to find homes for them. They LIED to persuade vet's offices and shelters to give them cats and dogs. And then they killed those cats and dogs the very same day. They never made even the slightest attempt to find families for them. The animals never had a chance.

And after lovingly killing the poor beasts, they bagged their little bodies and respectfully tossed them in the dumpster behind the Piggly Wiggly supermarket.

PETA is the Scientology of animal activism: a greedy, amoral, sinister, starfucking cult.

[LisaL]

201. And contradicts the testimony of the vet, who claims these two Peta

employees took animals from his practice promising to find them homes, not to be euthanized. But in fact, they don't run an adoption facility, according to the administrator's statement! Just as I thought, the only problem Peta even had with the two is that they dumped the bodies in the public dumpsters, nothing else. I wonder why they were dumping the bodies in a dumpster anyway? Since Peta considers euthanasia so humane, one would imagine they should have known what to do with the bodies. What, did they run out of space?
My dislike for them only grows every minute!

[shockra]

206. The reason PETA started picking up animals in NC...

was to humanely euthanize them so that they won't be gassed or shot.

The employees probably told those handing over animals that they'd find homes for them to spare their feelings, because that's what they want to hear, and that's what they want to believe. It may be that some have refused to hand over animals when they're told to their face they would be euthanized (even though they probably know full well that's the policy). In which case some PETA employees might feel they have to put a rosy face on the situation to get the animals away so that they won't end up gassed.

This is not a simple situation on either end of the situation, psychologically. I'm not so willing to believe the PETA employees are evil, and the vets or shelter workers are completely clueless. They're in a desparate situation because of state policies and extreme lack of funding for animal welfare. People who want to save animals are probably willing to grasp at the slim hope that PETA can find homes. Which they can only do through acquaintances.

And lethal injection is far more humane that what the animals would have endured otherwise. From the Charlotte Observer:

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:nPGUiQ9TCxgJ:www.charlotte.com/mld/charlotte/news/special_packages/pets/6195320.htm+death+at+the+pound+charlotte+observer&hl=en&start=1&ie=UTF-8

No home, no hope

Animals in the Charlotte region are killed at more than twice the national average

MICHELLE CROUCH & SCOTT DODD

Staff Writers

<snip>

The doomed dogs and cats often spend their last days in crowded, stench-filled shelters that haven't adopted the best practices experts recommend. Most die in gas chambers, a method animal advocates consider outdated and potentially inhumane.

Not one county in the region has spent public money on the only method proven to reduce the number of unwanted animals killed in shelters: spaying and neutering pets to cut down on population growth.

Charlotte's shelter, the region's largest and best-funded, kills about 70 percent of the animals that enter its doors, all by lethal injection. And the numbers are going up, even as they drop around the country.

The percentage of animals killed in surrounding counties, usually by carbon monoxide, is even higher.

Caldwell killed 91 percent of dogs and cats at its shelter in 2002. Gaston killed 90 percent and Iredell 89 percent.

Rural Anson County, east of Union, kills almost every animal at its shelter. It has one animal control worker who has to shut down the facility every time he goes on a call.

In county after county, the explanation is the same: Officials say they don't have the money and can't make animals a priority at a time when growth is increasing the need for human services such as police and schools.

"There's only so much public money to go around," said Reggie Horton, Gaston's animal control administrator. "And by the time you get down to animal issues, the coffer's dry."

Experts say solving the problem isn't just a matter of more spending. What needs to change, they say, are attitudes and priorities -- adopting methods proven to save animals rather than spending money to kill them. Other cities and states have saved both money and animal lives by investing in high-volume, low-cost spay-neuter programs, particularly those that target pets in low-income communities.

The South in general and rural communities in particular tend to lag behind urban areas and other parts of the country, in part because of an agricultural background that views animals as commodities, not companions.

"The attitude is: `We kill animals. So what?' " said Bob Christiansen, an Atlanta author and animal population consultant.

<snip>

`Horrible way to die'

The majority of counties in the Carolinas use gas to kill most animals -- a method banned by at least two states, Maryland and California.In the Charlotte region, only Mecklenburg and Burke counties always use lethal injection. When Sheriff John McDevitt took over Burke's animal control in 2001, he was so opposed to the gas chamber that he had it knocked down with a sledge hammer.

"It's a horrible way to die," he said. "You gas them, then you listen to them howl and bark."

Officials in other counties say they want to be humane. They put down young and sick animals by lethal injection. But they say they can't afford to use that method every time. It's more expensive, requiring more time and at least two people. One must be a trained technician to handle the drugs.

Some animal welfare groups object to gas because it takes longer to work -- several minutes, as opposed to the usual five to 20 seconds for injection -- and is more subject to misuse.

"If it's done correctly, according to the proper guidelines, it is painless," said Kirkland, with the N.C. state vet's office. "They just lie down and go to sleep."

But the Carolinas don't require animal control workers to undergo training before administering the gas, even though some counties do it anyway.

National groups offer standards for using gas, but not all counties follow them. Often, animals are loaded into cages or a chamber together, where they can fight and hurt one another as they die. Recommendations say to keep animals separate and avoid crowding.

"You put a bunch of strange dogs or puppies together," Kirkland said, "they're going to be scrambling all over each other."

Cabarrus puts several animals in a cage together -- separated by species -- and rolls them into the gas chamber. In Union, as many as 10 dogs are gassed together in a 4-by-4-foot steel container. It replaced a cinder-block chamber that leaked, causing some animals to survive the gassing.

Stanly County still has that problem. "After you bring them out, some of them aren't all down," said animal control officer Randy Palmer, who has had the job for 25 years. "Sometimes we have to put them back in."

With lethal injection, animals are held by technicians who can comfort them as they die and feel their heartbeats fade.

"The one kindness you can give an animal that's had a rough life is that final little scratch behind the ear and a very quick death," said Martha Armstrong of the Humane Society of the United States. "You can't do that in a carbon monoxide chamber."

Union shelter worker Chuck Davis said it's tough to wake up knowing he'll have to kill six or seven puppies that day. He and other workers console each other by saying the dogs are going to a better place.

"I'm going to hell," he said, "cause they're going to heaven."

[LisaL]

210. Oh give me a break! Do you think I am an idiot?

The vet, Dr. Proctor, only gave them the cat and kittens because they promised to find home for the animals. This vet was very upset and said he will never give anyone from Peta any more animals. The kittens were highly adoptable. We are not talking about sick animals here. They told the employees what they wanted to hear? When there were obviously other alternatives for these animals, such as adoption by people? If the employees knew the animals would be killed, don't you think the employees would have tried other alternatives available instead of handing them Peta animals? It wasn't a choice between being gassed or euthanized humanly for many of these animals, if Peta didn't kill them, it's very possible they would have found homes. Furthermore, anybody who picks up a bunch of animals, euthanizes them better have a burial place for them. The way this stands, they collected a whole bunch of animals, killed them and dumped them into a dumpster. If they are so keen on euthanasia, one would imagine they should have procedures for the proper disposal of bodies.
Yes, Peta claims the employees disposed the bodies in the dumpster against Peta policy, but never say why the employees did it.
:mad:

[shockra]

219. Very possible they would have found homes?

If you read the stats for North Carolina shelters, the chances were slim and none. Adoption by people is always an option, but if it was a likely possibility, 5 million animals wouldn't be euthanized every year in this country.

I can only speculate on the reasons for the actions of the two PETA employees, but they probably dumped them *because* they had lied to those they picked up animals from. They wouldn't want to take dead bodies back to PETA headquarters after promising they would be adopted out. It would be on the organization's head if found out. They're supposed to be checked over by a medical team at headquarters first to determine how adoptable they are.

As it stands, it ends up being on the organization's head anyway. I can't understand why the two would take these risks, knowing how vulnerable PETA is to bad publicity. They were exercising bad judgment all around.

[LisaL]

224. I hope their "bad judgment" lands them in prison.

I would want to say for a long time, but even as a hope, I don't think that's realistic. As for Peta, how exactly is it that they didn't notice that these 2 didn't bring any animals back for months?

[NorthernSpy]

209. I've learned more about PETA in the last 24 hours...

... than in all the time since I first heard of them til yesterday. The more I find out, the sicker I feel.

:puke:

[moriverrat]

211. Establishment/RW memo

Plenty of cash for PETA. Plenty of corporate media coverage of PETA.
People associate PETA with the left. Portray PETA as crazy. By projection, what we frame as "left" will be seen in the same box as PETA.

[NorthernSpy]

213. Update: Trespassing charges added...

... to the 31 counts of felony cruelty and the eight misdemeanor counts of illegal disposal that Hinkle and Cook faced already.

http://www.wavy.com/Global/story.asp?S=3488589


Me, I say hit 'em with illegal possession of a controlled substance. Those lethal injections they give pets are high-potency barbiturates, and neither Hinkle nor Cook seems to have a vet license.

Yeah, the drug laws suck, but since we've got them, we might as well try to get some good out of them.

[SkyeTerrier]

215. Ingrid posts bond for the two...

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=3485870&nav=0oa7b91D

How the dogs died may be known as soon as tomorrow, but Ahoskie Police say they've got the ones responsible for dumping their carcasses. 24-year-old Andrew Cook and 27-year-old Adria Hinkle are out on bond tonight, thanks to the President of the People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals.

PETA'S President Ingrid Newkirk released this statement.

"I cannot comment on Ms. Hinkle's legal situation but I believe that it will become clear that Ms. Hinkle has only spared animals suffering, not caused it. It is not PETA policy to place animals in a dumpster and if that happened we are appalled."


Yeah, once again.....lying to obtain adoptable animals and killing the is OK, but just don't throw the bodies in a dumpster. :eyes:

[Catchawave]

229. LOL.....

...all of a sudden DUers are trusting the MSM *facts*

Amazing. Are you a breeder Skye Terrier?

[SkyeTerrier]

241. And what would that have to do with anything?

Ah yes, red herring to distract from the subject. Attempt to discredit the OP, attempt to discredit the media reporting the story, but whatever you do, don't address the fact the PeTA has been caught killing and dumping animals.....

[flvegan]

246. You should read this...

This is from one of PETA's websites:
http://www.helpinganimals.com/f-nc.asp

They openly discuss the euthanization of animals, as opposed to the cruelty in killing them via a bullet or gas chamber.

Fault them for doing the dirty work if you must. If you've never pushed that needle, you have NO place pointing fingers.

Lastly, I think you'll find that you sound just like these morons:
http://www.consumerfreedom.com/pressRelease_detail.cfm/release/109

[SkyeTerrier]

250. The point you are failing to comprehend...

PeTA obtained these animals under false pretenses. They told the shelter workers and local vets that they would be placing these animals in homes. Some of these animals, like the litter of kittens were not even in a shelter, but were being cared for by local vets. Maybe if you just stick your fingers in your ears and sing "lalalala" a little louder it will all go away, eh?

[flvegan]

252. You didn't read the mentioned site.

Biiiiiig surprise.

Your hatred of this organization reminds me of something almost Phelps-like in nature. Close your mind to everything but your predetermined belief. Nice.

[Catchawave]

254. Simma' down......

I'm not trying to discredit you, but your talking points are eerily similar to NAIA's (The AKC's "hitmen" lobby).

"Attempt to discredit the media reporting the story" ? I failed to see where they reported the conditions for homeless animals in Bertie County. I'm not defending these employees tactics, but I'm certainly not blaming the entire PETA organization.

I much rather discuss the 513 hogs that suffocated to DEATH last week at a Smithfield farm. That's a PETA story too. :shrug:

[SkyeTerrier]

264. Uh-huh, yeah, OK

"I failed to see where they reported the conditions for homeless animals in Bertie County. I'm not defending these employees tactics, but I'm certainly not blaming the entire PETA organization."

Perhaps because that has absolutely nothing to do with the issue at hand? The issue is that PeTA employees have been removing animals from shelters and vets' offices under false pretense, killing them, and dumping the bodies in dumpsters. Is it really that hard for you to focus?

"I much rather discuss the 513 hogs that suffocated to DEATH last week at a Smithfield farm. That's a PETA story too. :shrug: "

I'm sure you would. Anything to deflect from the fact that PeTA got caught killing animals and dumping their bodies. Ya know, if PeTA had caught an animal research lab doing the exact same thing they do, you'd all be cheering right about now......

[Lab2112]

221. PETA leader calls acts hideous, but not cruel

Newkirk says dead animals dumped in trash bin didn't suffer.

http://www.charlotte.com/mld/observer/news/local/11926163.htm

LAB

[Name removed]

223. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Avis]

225. financial snapshot

Go to http://www.guidestar.org/ and look up the IRS Form 990 for
HSUS and PETA. Another useful link is
http://www.charitynavigator.org/ .

Financial Snapshot for Fiscal Year Ending 2003:

HSUS Revenue: $72,410,528
Assets: $113,367,214
PETA Revenue: $24,082,725
Assets: $9,338,390

http://www.animalpeoplenews.org/03/12/watchdogCompensation1203.html

Individual Salaries of Top Executives for Fiscal Year Ending 2003:
STEVEN SANDERSON (WldlfConsSoc): $507,408
LARRY HAWK (ASPCA): $421,970
<...>
PAUL IRWIN (HSUS): $315,898
Patricia Forkan (HSUS): $179,217
Andrew Rowan (HSUS): $170,995
G Thomas Waite (HSUS): $160,473
Roger Kindler (HSUS): $152,767
John Grandy (HSUS): $145,124
Jan Hartke (HSUS): $133,517
John Kullberg (HSUS): $131,453
Michael Fox (HSUS): $128,419
Wayne Pacelle (HSUS): $124,745
<...>
Mary Beth (PETA): $76,702
Dan Matthews (PETA): $67,837
Jessica Sandler (PETA): $62,073

Note that almost NONE of the money collected by these "humane"
organizations goes to support actual animals.

[flvegan]

227. Your post is bullshit, you realize, right?

NONE of the money collected goes to support animals? HSUS aside (as a lobbying group, based in DC, pay scales are a bit off, eh?), PETA employees often earn less than $25k per year, opting to live together and do without rather than look for more cash.

Why don't you run the same search on the American Heart Assn? Or your local humane society? Or any other charity, for that matter.

You haven't researched nor made ANY attempt to bring legit info to your post.

Nice work.

[shockra]

228. I don't know what you're complaining about.

The Charity Navigator site -- "America's Largest Charity Evaluator" rated PETA and the HSUS three out of four stars. (The American Heart Association, btw, rated two)

PETA has a financial page on its website, with a financial statement, and this:

PETA is a nonprofit, tax-exempt 501(c)(3) corporation funded almost exclusively by the contributions of our members. We strive to use our funds in the most cost-effective and efficient manner possible, a commitment illustrated by the fact that 86.22 percent of our operating expenses went directly to our programs fighting animal exploitation. We expended only 10.59 percent on fundraising efforts that drive our operations and 3.19 percent on management and general operations.

The majority of PETA's dedicated staff, 53 percent, earn only $13,100 to $27,999, 32 percent earn $28,000 to $39,499, and only the remaining 15 percent make more than $39,500. Our president, Ingrid E. Newkirk, earned $31,385 during fiscal year ending July 31, 2004.

The financial statement shown here is for the fiscal year ending July 31, 2004, and is based on our independently audited financial statements. A copy of our complete financial statement is available upon request.

http://www.peta.org/feat/annual_review04/numbers.asp

[Pepperbelly]

230. This is very weird.

I do not know what to make of it, one way or the other. Very odd.

[justiceischeap]

231. Media Mistakes

Just keep in mind folks, that many of you are quoting the same MSM that you demonize daily to back-up your opinions. I can tell you with certainty that many of the things being quoted in this thread are wrong and guess who got it wrong? That's right, the beloved mainstream media many of you are using to defend your arguments.

As far as the euthanization argument goes, if you have not visited or seen first hand the conditions of the so-called shelters in NC, then please refrain from commenting on how "adoptable" these animals are. Until you've seen dogs cannabilizing one another because they're shoved in overcrowed pens with no food, you really can't say how you'd help the situation in North Carolina. The conditions for abandoned and unwanted animals are deplorable and the best thing anyone with a conscience could do is humanely end their suffering.

Another point I'd like to make is this--who's to say the vet is being honest? Who's to say the vet didn't know exactly what was going to happen? This man has a business to think about and his own interests. So please keep that in mind when he talks about these so-called adoptable animals. Also, out of the 18 remains that were placed in the dumpster only two animals were kept for necropsy. Wouldn't it make a stronger case if those two animals looked to be the healthiest ones in the bunch and not some dog with mange or parvo?

This case has yet to go to trial and most likely will not go to trial but many of you have assumed these two individuals are guilty of more than what they were caught doing and that is disposing of remains improperly.

Lastly, it is not illegal for these two to have euthanized these animals. That too is something no one seems to be pointing out from the many stories going around the net about this.

Newkirk said they were likely given a lethal injection of a barbiturate that the organization is licensed to use.

http://home.hamptonroads.com/stories/story.cfm?story=87978&ran=119183&tref=po

I know many in this community hate PETA but don't cast stones just because you disagree with their philosophies and turn around and defend something I've seen so many of you hold in contempt, the msm, by using their quotes to defend arguments for a situation that the facts aren't even in on yet.

[shockra]

240. Good post.

Also, people tend to assume vets are on the side of the angels, since they take care of animals. But the largest veterinarian's organization in the world, the AVMA, has been against animal welfare on multiple fronts.

http://www.upc-online.org/avma/welfare_policy.html

And there's the wood chipper episode, authorized by a member on the animal welfare committee of the AMVA:

WOOD-CHIPPED CHICKENS FUEL OUTRAGE

A San Diego area vet who allegedly allowed the disposal of 30,000 live birds feels the heat.
Los Angeles Times, Jia-Rui Chong, November 22, 2003

San Diego County's Animal Services Department has filed a complaint against a veterinarian who allegedly authorized a Valley Center egg ranch to kill 30,000 hens by dumping them alive into a wood chipper. Reports by the county, recently obtained by The Times, recount workers at the ranch feeding squirming birds by the bucket into the pounding machine, then turning the mashed remains with dirt and heaping the mixture into piles. The complaint centers on Gregg Cutler, a veterinarian who is also on the animal welfare committee of the American Veterinary Medical Assn.

Last winter, Cutler attended a meeting of poultry ranchers, veterinarians and state and federal officials to discuss how farmers should deal with chickens and other fowl during the outbreak of exotic Newcastle disease. During the meeting, the group discussed using a wood chipper to destroy birds that could not be moved because of a quarantine. A few weeks later, in February, Ward Egg Ranch rented a wood chipper to destroy hens which, though not infected with the Newcastle disease, had stopped laying eggs. San Diego County authorities received a complaint about the killing, and operators of the ranch said they got the idea from Cutler and others at the meeting.

Cutler denies he came up with the idea, but said he doesn't have a problem with using the machine for that purpose. "No idea was too crazy to throw out at these meetings," said Cutler. "We were in desperation trying to deal with this disease." Feeding chickens into a wood chipper, he said, "seemed like it was instantaneous and there was no suffering.. I personally believe if it's done properly with correct equipment, it's a humane way of disposing of birds in an emergency." Cutler said he's being unfairly targeted by animal welfare activists. In the last three weeks, four national animal advocate groups have called for his removal from the animal welfare committee.

In the county's report into the incident, Arie Wilgenburg, one of the ranch owners, is quoted as saying that several veterinarians, including Cutler, said wood-chipping was an "approved method" to kill hens that were no longer producing eggs. An egg ranch manager, Ken Iriye, told officials that the ranch preferred using the wood chipper to the usual methods of gassing by carbon-dioxide or snapping chickens' necks because it was "less traumatizing." He said it was easier for the staff to "cram the chickens in a chute than to chase them around and break their necks."

The report says that Cutler acknowledged supervising the mass euthanasia over the phone. County Animal Services Lt. Mary Kay Gagliardo said Cutler also told her that he believed using a wood chipper was humane. Gagliardo wrote: "I then asked him if he felt it was still humane if they were going in there bunches at a time, being plugged up in the chute, not knowing if they were going into the shredder feet first, breast first, if he still considered that a humane death, and he said to me, 'Yes, of course. However they go in, it's quick, it's painless, and it's over in seconds.' "

http://www.upc-online.org/alerts/112303chipper.htm

[LisaL]

249. Vets can euthanize the animals personally.

No need for somebody else to come in and take the animals.

[flvegan]

251. Have vets come forward to do so?

Well? Have they?

[LisaL]

255. What on Earth are you talking about?

Come forward to do what? Vets euthanize animals all the time, if the animal is sick or dying.
Why would they euthanize these cats and dogs? They wanted to find them a new home, not euthanize them.

[flvegan]

257. Read slower...

You said that vets could euthanize these animals personally. Well, it doesn't appear that any area vets have volunteered to do so, as they were still gassing the unwanted animals. PETA offered a humane alternative.

While it's possible that some area vets offered, I haven't seen that allegation stated anywhere. I figured that since you offered the suggestion, maybe you had insight. Consider me shocked to find out otherwise.

Now, if you are referring in this second post of yours, to the vet that turned the cat/kittens over to PETA, you're going on his word and his word alone. It would be poor business practice to suggest that he asked PETA to take these animals and euthanize them, wouldn't it? Something to think about...

[LisaL]

287. Bad practice? But why? After all, according to you,

killing cats and dogs is such a humane thing to do.
:sarcasm:

[justiceischeap]

270. Have you personally seen the conditions in NC?

I have and trust me, these animals need all the help they can get and that includes euthanization in a humane manner. Most of the shelters down there put these animals in a wooden box, back a truck up to it and put the tailpipe pipe in a hole. This is the norm, not the acception. The other norm is shooting them in the head with a .22 and often times having to shoot more than once.

It's embarassing that in this day and age there is such disregard for animals as there are in these counties in NC. Until you've seen it first hand, you'll never truely understand the gravity of the situation.

[Pystoff]

232. A tip about PETA

They own an industrial freezer it is at their headuqaarters in Virginia. Why do they own an industrial freezer you might ask? To euthanize animals...hence the dumping of animal bodies. PETA is a pile of ultra radical shite.

[justiceischeap]

239. Umm, okay

You got that information from CCF because I read the same stuff on their site. Here's a tip for you. PETA does lots of Vegan outreach in the Hampton Roads area, including the huge art festival this weekend. What they do is prepare food and sell it so folks can see how tasty vegan food is. Another tip, PETA purchases their food and stores it at their headquarters for events such as this, quite possibly in an industrial freezer.

[LisaL]

248. I think police should raid their headquarters. See just how

tasty that vegan food is, that they store in their freezer.
:eyes:

[Pystoff]

279. Hehe yeah they should

They might get a shock when they find dead animals in there. Wouldn't that make interesting news?

[LisaL]

285. And I bet that darn freezer is full. Otherwise, why would

Peta members dump animals in dumpsters? And for all you Peta lovers-this is my opinion only, I have no evidence whatsoever to support this opinion.

[flvegan]

335. Typical, too.

Opinion with nothing to back it up. Yawn.

[Pystoff]

276. No I didn't

I got that nugget from the show Bullshit when they did some ivestigation into PETA and the nutbags that run it. They have no other reason to have an industrial freezer on site.
Vegan??? Like I care about vegan stuff and their promoting it. It is an idustrial freezer man it's designed to go low as 30 below zero...thats a popular way to euthanize animals limiting pain. A fridge doesn't have or need that capability. Unless they are flash freezing meat eh?

[flvegan]

336. Euthanasia via freezing?

Wow. Really reaching there. No, not reaching...grasping sadly at anything out there.

Like you care about vegan stuff and their promoting it. Your hate is funny, too, at best.

[flvegan]

243. Right wing nutjobs Penn and Teller make that point

as does the Center for Consumer Freedom, which is backed largely by the tobacco and alcohol industries. Nice to buy into the right when it's convenient.

Let's talk about this alleged industrial freezer. As another poster stated, it's possible that it's for food for their vegan outreach. It's also possible that it is for keeping euthanized animals. As PETA may be providing a humane, peaceful euthanasia for unwanted animals in the area, they may need a place to keep bodies until they can PROPERLY be disposed of. If that is the case, if one wants to harp on PETA for providing a caring and loving end to these animals that came to this situation due to the evils of man, then it makes you as bad as the fuckwits that put those animals in the first place.

[Pystoff]

278. I happen to like the show Bullshit

Yes Penn and Teller are libertarians...right wing nutjobs no they attack the right as much as the left. Don't assume I buy into the right when it is convienient thats a weak defense by you and an apparent attack on me because I am new.

It isn't a vegan outreach thing sorry you need to prove that they need to freeze vegetables down to 30 below. Yes but PETA is against euthanasia so they'd be hypocrities now eh? I don't care for mass or even limited euthanasia but sometimes an animal is too far gone therefore I have a less radical view than PETA and am not a hypocrite like they are. I don't harm animals and never have love my cat and hate people that harm animals so watch whom you imply is a fuckwit for not having a radical enough view in your single opinion. For shit sake I don't and never have hunted even so give me break with the holier than thou act.

[flvegan]

320. Whoa, little buddy. Take a step back.

You don't know what vegan outreach they do, thanks. PETA isn't against euthanasia in it's proper sense, as they've stated.

You don't harm animals? I won't even ask what your diet is, less I be implying that you're a hypocrite.

Holier than thou? Not quite.

Since you attacked me...punctuation exists. Look into it.

Enjoy the show. "Bullshit" seems appropriate.

[Pystoff]

346. Get over your self importance

Good for you are right they do approve of euthanasia and apparently practice it on-site!

I don't run a slaughterhouse either I just eat em....better than letting it rot since people sure aren't stopping the practice anytime soon eh?

Yes you are holier than thou buy a helmet or find a subject other than vegan-ism to preach.

Nope you implied I was a fuck-wit read back so you fired the shot not me. And I don't give a flying fuck-wit* about punctuation so block me if you don't like it.

[lisby]

253. Actually, I think the shite is rolling more your direction on this issue.

I have never heard such a bunch a nonsense.

I belonged to PETA for many years. No one ever told me to go kill dogs or cats. We were too busy trying to stop animal testing by the government and business such as lighting live dogs on fire to test the results of a new combustible chemical. That was a real case. And it was PETA that exposed it and many, many more like it.

I interviewed to work for PETA national headquarters. Every question I was asked probed my love of animals and dedication to their rights.

I feel like I have strayed into a warped alternate universe. Now PETA's goal is cruelty to animals and Amnesty International lies about torture just for shits and grins.



:freak:

Lisby

[LisaL]

256. Then how in the world do you explain these people picking

up dogs, killing them and dumping their bodies, and Peta president posting a bail for them? If everybody in Peta loves animals so.
The only thing Peta seems to upset about is that they dumped the bodies, not that they picked those animals up and killed them. Some pet lovers you got there.

:eyes:

[flvegan]

258. Seriously, FoxNews needs you.

It's like hearing a less-informed Bill O'Reilly...

[LisaL]

259. LOL. I guess when you have nothing to say in an argument,

you use that dumb "FoxNews needs you" line.

[flvegan]

266. Since you don't answer any of my questions with FACTUAL

answers, and all you can do is spin detail and spew forth hate, I simply want to point out what a great opportunity you're obviously overlooking.

Seriously, submint an application. Probably good money in it.

[undergroundpanther]

262. Peta people have no rights to bitch about

what Frist did to the shelter cats(picking them up at a shelter and killing them)after this.
Peta used poison Frist did gawd knows what.Either way animals died.

Also one beef I have with Peta is Peta tries to get people to put cats on vegan diets.This is cruel!!!

http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=34

A vegan cat is a tricky dangerous thing to do to an animal not suited for it.
http://www.wysong.net/controversies/vegan.shtml
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

These supplements they recommend ALL come from ANIMAL meat sources.
No way around it cats are carnivores.Whether supplements from animal sources or meat WHAT is the difference? Animals die either way..

Just like Cows are Herbivores and shouldn't be fed blood or slaughterhouse wastes because it hurts them,cats fed vegan diets hurts carnivores..

Vegans aren't always realistic about who or what can go vegan.Vegans are sometimes true believer types and very self righteous about it.And they are absolutist too...I have plenty of experience with true believer vegans,

My sister is vegan and she has nerve damage from it..she has sores on her arms that come and go,because she is nutritionally deficient in her diet.And she tries to get all of her nutritional needs but with a vegetarian diet she cannot do this..She will not eat meat.
She is killing herself with this because our family has issues with protein,and such in the way our bodies process foods it's inherited.

I eat red meat and I do not suffer like my sister does. Now I am aware of where that meat I eat comes from and the dangers of mad cow .http://www.unknownnews.net/040204d-up.html

I hate factory farms and labs who do unnecessary animal tests. I'm not all that sure animal tests can apply all that well to human bodies.I am very aware of the ugliness of slaughterhouses and labs.My sister worked in labs and this is partly WHY she went vegetarian.. But unlike her I am unwilling to suffer physical pain and all the symptoms like my sister does for a belief or a political point or because of guilt or disgust..

I am poor and I can't afford free range anything.I wish I could .But again Peta must assume we all got the moolah to feed our cats vegan diet supplements and go organic.That belief of theirs is so unrealistic..

If Peta really cared about all this stuff they rant about they'd buy up land,start up home farms,and adopt cats and dogs to live there too.They'd educate people on herbalism/alternative medicine/wellness..and Do stuff like teach people how to MAKE soap at home for free so people don't have to go to COSMETIC COMPANIES and DRUG Companies to get needs met as often...Teach people how to care for dogs and cats,educate people about how to buy land and create more wild animal friendly habitats in their yards. Help the ASPCA bust animal hoarders and animal abusers.Make sure veterinarians are not abusing animals..Help spay and neuter programs.

And be realistic Mankind has damaged this planet animals will not be born free and survive happy in the wild in this broken world without our help for them now.We have alot of ecological repair and cleanup to do before we let the cats and dogs go free.

Peta's why not grow organic stuff on farms and sell it all cheaper than the factory farms do ,sell cheap organic food all over every town, all accessible to bus lines so more poor people could AFFORD to go organic.

And I think poor people are who consume most of the cheap processed food and meats would jump to get organic vegetables and lovingly raised,with no hormones or other crap,humanely slaughtered cows and chickens if they could afford it.I bet people would love to buy organic vegan health products and soaps animal test free..

Fat bashing does not help this problem and it makes Peta look like true believer assholes.
http://home.earthlink.net/~oakhausdsn/peta.html

Alot of people are fat because of POVERTY.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/190061_obesity09.html
http://www.bigfatblog.com/archives/001309.php


I guess really making real changes, growing and selling organics cheap doing the WORK required to undermine the factory farms..is not all that fun is it? It requires you to care about people animals and the planet and not be such one point ponies...Guess it's more fun to shock and offend people instead of help, make kids cry at violent videos, and stand around in a rat suit rather than do what it takes to hit the evil corporations right in their cold moneyed heart..
Take a lesson from real activists like Food not Bombs,Peta.

http://home.earthlink.net/~foodnotbombs/


http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[undergroundpanther]

263. Peta is not as good for animals as they think they are ..

Peta people have no rights to bitch about what Frist did to the shelter cats(picking them up at a shelter and killing them)after this.
Peta used poison Frist did gawd knows what.Either way animals died.

Also one beef I have with Peta is Peta tries to get people to put cats on vegan diets.This is cruel!!!

http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.as...

A vegan cat is a tricky dangerous thing to do to an animal not suited for it.
http://www.wysong.net/controversies/vegan.shtml
http://www.vegsoc.org/info/catfood.html

These supplements they recommend ALL come from ANIMAL meat sources.
No way around it cats are carnivores.Whether supplements from animal sources or meat WHAT is the difference? Animals die either way..

Just like Cows are Herbivores and shouldn't be fed blood or slaughterhouse wastes because it hurts them,cats fed vegan diets hurts carnivores..

Vegans aren't always realistic about who or what can go vegan.Vegans are sometimes true believer types and very self righteous about it.And they are absolutist too...I have plenty of experience with true believer vegans,

My sister is vegan and she has nerve damage from it..she has sores on her arms that come and go,because she is nutritionally deficient in her diet.And she tries to get all of her nutritional needs but with a vegetarian diet she cannot do this..She will not eat meat.
She is killing herself with this because our family has issues with protein,and such in the way our bodies process foods it's inherited.

I eat red meat and I do not suffer like my sister does. Now I am aware of where that meat I eat comes from and the dangers of mad cow .http://www.unknownnews.net/040204d-up.html

I hate factory farms and labs who do unnecessary animal tests. I'm not all that sure animal tests can apply all that well to human bodies.I am very aware of the ugliness of slaughterhouses and labs.My sister worked in labs and this is partly WHY she went vegetarian.. But unlike her I am unwilling to suffer physical pain and all the symptoms like my sister does for a belief or a political point or because of guilt or disgust..

I am poor and I can't afford free range anything.I wish I could .But again Peta must assume we all got the moolah to feed our cats vegan diet supplements and go organic.That belief of theirs is so unrealistic..

If Peta really cared about all this stuff they rant about they'd buy up land,start up home farms,and adopt cats and dogs to live there too.They'd educate people on herbalism/alternative medicine/wellness..and Do stuff like teach people how to MAKE soap at home for free so people don't have to go to COSMETIC COMPANIES and DRUG Companies to get needs met as often...Teach people how to care for dogs and cats,educate people about how to buy land and create more wild animal friendly habitats in their yards. Help the ASPCA bust animal hoarders and animal abusers.Make sure veterinarians are not abusing animals..Help spay and neuter programs.

And be realistic Mankind has damaged this planet animals will not be born free and survive happy in the wild in this broken world without our help for them now.We have alot of ecological repair and cleanup to do before we let the cats and dogs go free.

Peta's why not grow organic stuff on farms and sell it all cheaper than the factory farms do ,sell cheap organic food all over every town, all accessible to bus lines so more poor people could AFFORD to go organic.

And I think poor people are who consume most of the cheap processed food and meats would jump to get organic vegetables and lovingly raised,with no hormones or other crap,humanely slaughtered cows and chickens if they could afford it.I bet people would love to buy organic vegan health products and soaps animal test free..

Fat bashing does not help this problem and it makes Peta look like true believer assholes.
http://home.earthlink.net/~oakhausdsn/peta.html

Alot of people are fat because of POVERTY.
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/190061_obesity09...
http://www.bigfatblog.com/archives/001309.php


I guess really making real changes, growing and selling organics cheap doing the WORK required to undermine the factory farms..is not all that fun is it? It requires you to care about people animals and the planet and not be such one point ponies...Guess it's more fun to shock and offend people instead of help, make kids cry at violent videos, and stand around in a rat suit rather than do what it takes to hit the evil corporations right in their cold moneyed heart..
Take a lesson from real activists like Food not Bombs,Peta.

http://home.earthlink.net/~foodnotbombs /


http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[justiceischeap]

271. It takes a lot of love and humanity

To come to the difficult decision to humanely euthanize these animals. Shelters euthanize healthy animals every single day and I don't see you getting upset about that. There are some shelters that, when they are overcrowded, don't even put the animals up for adoption that come in, they are euthanized immediately--including cats and their litters.

There is a serious problem with overpopulation in this country with animals. There aren't enough loving homes to go around for every animal that needs one (hell there aren't enough unloving homes). Then you add purebreeds to that equation and the problem just multiplies. We are overbreeding animals and therefore these healthy and adoptable animals aren't adopted but euthanized and not just by PETA. It isn't the place of vets, nor their desire, to offer their services to these shelters or else they would have stepped up for animals long before PETA came along in NC. As I posted earlier to you, if you haven't seen firsthand how deplorable the conditions in NC are, you really can have no idea how bad it is there.

Look at what PETA stands for... People for the <i><b>Ethical</b></i> Treatment of Animals... it <i>is</i> ethical to humanely euthanize animals, period. Just because you may not agree doesn't make it so.

[lisby]

288. Thank you for some common sense

I just adopted a cat from the Frederick, Maryland, shelter two weeks ago. A volunteer told me that the cats in the adoption cages were the cream of the crop that they felt positive could be found a home. But another 250 or so were out down each month without ever getting to the adoption cages. And this is a shelter that adopts about 150-200 cats per month.

No one is saying that euthanizing is the right thing to do in a perfect world, but this sure as fuck isn't a perfect world. Go put your money where your mouth is and adopt one or two pets from a shelter. Get your own pets spayed or neutered. Go out and really work for change in your neighborhoods and cities. PETA isn't perfect, but its an organization that is trying, at least. Shelters aren't perfect, but for they most part, they do what they can.

I mean seriously--WTF is PETA's secret plan here? To kill the house pets of the world? Why? What's the point?

Lisby

[LisaL]

293. Because they think animals should either be free roaming

in the wild, or not at all. They don't want people to have any use for animals. I wonder what wild do they imagine dogs and cats are going to roam in?
Just my opinion, of course.

[justiceischeap]

324. And you'd be wrong

Read this and educate yourself about how PETA feels about companion animals.
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_display.asp?ID=29

Then when you're done with that one, you can educate yourself about PETA's stance on other issues pertaining to companion animals.
http://www.peta.org/mc/factsheet_companion.asp

[lisby]

292. I can't explain it because I have too few facts.

Believe me, if it turns that PETA is sponsoring a program of clandestine animal extermination, I'm gonna be pissed. I'll stand right beside you and curse them to hell. Right now, however, all I can say is based on my decade of experience with PETA membership, this kind of pet holocaust is not what the organization has ever stood for, wanted, or acted toward.

I'm going to reserve any judgment against all of PETA, as opposed to two individuals, until I see more facts come out. PETA may be your witch of the hour, but I don't light fires under whole movements/organizations without a lot of evidence that they are in Satan's pocket.

And I must say that I don't appreciate being tarred with your "some pet lovers" brush.

Lisby

:rant:

[Pystoff]

280. PETA is supposed to be anti euthanasia right?

But in their own records they have listed animals taken in and a much lower number found homes. Unless PETA has a HUGE kennel somehwere something is going on there. This is an issue THEY have to adress NOT me.

Now explain that nonsense for them eh?

[LisaL]

282. They are not anti euthanasia and never have been.

In fact, I suspect they think animals are better off dead than owned.
So, those two most likely decided to kill as many animals as they can because of that logic, IMO.

[Merope215]

290. Um, no

PETA has never been anti-euthanasia, as you can discover from spending exactly 45 seconds at their website. Nice try, though. Here's a link for you, in case you'd like to have some actual information before you talk about it.

http://www.helpinganimals.com/i-euth.html

[woo me with science]

260. The apologists for PETA

would be all over this if a Republican had done it. Remember Bill Frist and his cats?

[LisaL]

284. Yea, for some reason they didn' t like him killing the cats.

Didn't he do the same thing though? Went to shelters, took the cats, promised to give them a home, and then killed them? Sound like Dr. Frist should have been working for Peta all this time.

[Sterling]

261. I am sending the money I used to send to the party to PETA.

I think my ideals are more in line with them than a lot of people who claim to be progressive on this site.

[LisaL]

283. All of you Peta lovers convinced me that they are good-

I will donate my cat to them. Have them find him a good home.
:sarcasm:

[JJswans]

337. Euthanasia drug

>>All of you Peta lovers convinced me that they are good-
I will donate my cat to them. Have them find him a good home.<<

Doesn't your cat already have a good home? If not, why not? The animals that Peta took had no home, but they did have a very short future that included an inhumane death by either the so-called shelter, or the veterinarian. That vet uses succinylcholine chloride, which causes paralysis before it loss of consciousness. That means the animal is fully aware that it can't get a breath of air. You think that Peta employees should have left the animals to die like that?

[LisaL]

340. Peta employees killed them humanly?

How do you know that? They never bothered to bury them humanly, how can you know their death was humane?
It's not o'key to promise to a vet to find good home for the animals, and then kill those animals. It's not o'key to dump their bodies into a public dumpster. And nothing Peta lovers say will make it o'key.
It's pretty sad to find out that both the right and the left will defend
anything, as long as they think it's somehow beneficial to them.

[Lilith Velkor]

325. Okey diddly-dokey

I suppose the Democratic party (to whom I presume you are referring) will have to win back Congress and impeach Bush without your financial help, then.

If alienating progressives who don't share your philosophy vis-a-vis animals is that important to you, well, bully for you. :hmph:

[Blue_Tires]

268. kinda OT

but as a journalist, i'm surprised that the paper printed the actual addresses of the accused...kind of a breach of good taste (usually, we'd say 'the 500 block of Tree Top Street' or something like that

[shockra]

286. Yes.

You get the impression they want these people to be hounded.

Also the paragraph the article ended on:

"Chief Fitzhugh praised the work of his lead investigator, Detective Sgt. Jeremy Roberts, as well as the outstanding corporation between his agency and Bertie County Sheriff Greg Atkins and his investigators."

Well, well, aren't we patting ourselves on the back for "bagging PETA"? If the county were really so concerned about dead pets, they wouldn't be killing them at one of the highest rates in the country. I guess no good deed goes unpunished:

February 15, 2001

In July 2000, PETA received some shocking photographs of an animal shelter in Bertie County, North Carolina. Photos showed a starving dog eating a dead kitten and a dying dog lying in a pool of water, barely able to lift her head. PETA immediately contacted county officials and a PETA shelter specialist met with officials to discuss ways to improve the situation quickly.

PETA sent a team to Bertie County to train the animal control officer, Lester Outlaw, in proper feeding and cleaning protocols. PETA also built doghouses within the kennels because the shelter provided the dogs no protection from the elements. PETA pleaded with the county to stop gassing animals in a makeshift carbon monoxide chamber and even solicited the services of a local veterinarian who offered to euthanize animals at cost, but no matter how hard PETA tried, PETA could not get county officials to budge on the gas chamber issue. Disappointed by this refusal, PETA employees nevertheless were comforted by the thought that Lester Outlaw would at least clean and feed the animals properly, thanks to PETA's training, and the dogs would be kept warm and dry in their new doghouses.

Or so PETA staffers thought. PETA employees recently visited the Bertie County shelter to make sure that the animals were receiving proper care and were horrified by what they saw: countless piles of feces throughout the shelter, dogs living in their own filth, and a bag of food simply thrown into the dog run and left to get wet in the rain. But that wasn¹t the worst of it: PETA staffers also found a dead, wet cat lying in the middle of the dog run, and two dead puppies in an empty food bag!

Clearly, Lester Outlaw is making no effort to implement the standard operating procedures PETA trained him to follow, and county officials are negligent in failing to ensure humane standards of care for lost, stray, and abandoned animals. When PETA first met with officials and spent time and money trying to improve the Bertie County shelter, county commissioners and the county manager assured PETA that they would never allow animals to suffer at the shelter again. Obviously, that was a hollow promise.

http://www.all-creatures.org/aip/nl-20feb2001-peta.html

[Lorien]

289. With all that's going on in the world

it's shocking to see such a large number of DUers once again engaging in another PETA hate fest. 280+ responses? Seriously; your energies are needed elsewhere right now.

[Catchawave]

291. I agree.....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=183&topic_id=1527&mesg_id=1527

[LisaL]

295. Personally, I think it's an important story.

At least now shelters and vets will know better than give their animals to Peta to "find them good homes".

[justiceischeap]

326. With that said

Should we refer all animals that can't be found homes to you? How do you suggest the problem be solved?

[LisaL]

328. While I am not personally responsible for pet over-population,

I think I have a great solution. Each one of us should go into a shelter or to a vet, tell the shelter we want to provide a good home for an animal, pick up a dog or two, take them home, kill them, dump him into a dumpster, and start over the next day. Problem solved!
:sarcasm:

[flvegan]

333. I'm really sad that pet overpopulation and their subsequent euthaniziation

is funny to you. Sarcasm or not, you seem to take a great deal of joy in this. I hope it's worth it to you.

Before taking such liberties, try volunteering in an open-intake shelter. I bet you last a day, at best.

[LisaL]

339. Joy? My solution was inspired by Peta. In fact, I proposed we

do the exact same thing these 2 got caught doing. Is it a wrong thing to do? Why don't you like it?
You seem to approve when Peta employees did it.

[shockra]

341. There appears to be a projection problem.

A certain number of posters here take sadistic glee in the fact that PETA employees got nailed, and assume that's what the employees felt too.

[justiceischeap]

342. It saddens me that your solution is sarcasm

Which shows how much true disregard you have for the real problem, the overpopulation of animals. But even though your post was sarcastic, in all honesty, that would go a long way in reducing the amount of unwanted animals. Unfortunately, that wouldn't solve the problem. The breeders would still breed, people would still fail to spay/neuter their companion animals and people such as yourself, who'd rather be sarcastic than offer real solutions or won't even take the time to educate themselves, will always exist to perpetuate the situation.

[lisby]

347. Oh no, my little friend

You're forgetting that these adoptions aren't free. I paid $95 for spaying and shots for my new cat before I was allowed to take her home. Perhaps you think we all get supplemental monthly checks from PETA to carry out the Plan?

:tinfoilhat:


Lisby

[consuming]

311. Peta rocks!

[Moderator]

353. Locking

No longer Latest Breaking News.