College grads enter an encouraging job market

[lovuian]

http://feeds.bignewsnetwork.com/redir.php?jid=fa9b622157cdf0e8&cat=c08dd24cec417021

Nicole Girouard was pounding the pavement at a job fair Friday in Connecticut, armed with a stack of résumés and a new degree in business administration.

“I was excited driving here,” says Girouard, “I'm nervous, as you can tell. It's intimidating too.”

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But compared with recent years, America's 1.35 million new college graduates are having an easier time of it.

“It's been a good job market for grads,” says John Challenger, CEO of the global outplacement firm Challenger, Gray & Christmas. “ up 13 percent over last year. The last three years have been very rough.”

The hottest job sectors, according to the National Association of Colleges and Employers:

Engineering
Accounting and finance
Anything to do with computers
Nursing
Teaching
Beyond a stronger economy, experts say there's another reason the job market looks rosier for this year's grads. In part, they can thank the baby-boom generation.

more...

the good news out there is the Baby Boomers are going to get ready to retire and the corporations who have been screwing around are now in major competition with each other!!! Ya gotta love it!!!

[Erika]

1. But they will be offering only 1/2 of the wages

that long time employees were earning.

[bluestateguy]

2. Baby boomers retire, so they can pay college graduates much less

So this makes sense.

[Demeter]

11. The Boomers Are Being Laid Off At 62

so that they CAN'T retire. I know of two in the last 3 months--shown the door without mercy or fear of age discrimination lawsuits.

[WhiteTara]

27. and BFEE is asking for 69 retirement age

I love the SEVEN year gap! It should be very interesting time to be old!

[JDPriestly]

3. Most baby boomers cannot afford to retire.

Baby boomers my retire for a year or so, but then they will be back at work. Social Security pays nothing, and most people do not have near enough money by the time they are "retirement age" to retire and make ends meet. People just don't realize how much money they need to have just to stay alive. This story is very imaginative, but not very honest.

[Erika]

4. Most retirees I know work part time to get health coverage

They may have worked for 35 years at the same company since they were 20, but they have no way of paying for insurance premiums.

[raccoon]

46. if they can get health coverage

for working at a part-time job, they must have stars in their crowns. Most part-time jobs offer JACK in the way of health coverage, IME.

[Deja Q]

14. It's not imaginative either, unless you add these ideas to it:

* Land of Oz
* Klingons
* Green cheese
* immortality can happen to you too!
* there are no risks in having sex.

[high density]

5. I'm a 2003 college grad...

And guess what? I've got the same job that I had while I was in college that I was able to do with a high school diploma.

I really don't think one of the hot job sectors is "anything to do with computers." From personal experience I know that entry-level or junior software developer jobs are impossible to come by in this "good job market for grads." Helpdesk jobs are about all I can find, and again I could have done that with a high school diploma.

[nickdw]

10. wrong

Open Source is going mainstream. This myth about only helpdesk
jobs being available is already becoming non-existent. In the
world of Linux, BSD, Mac OS X and other operating system
flavors people get paid to blog, write for collaborative media
and possibly start a news syndicate, help organizations
maintain web sites and build custom code for public and
private projects.

[Deja Q]

15. If you have any links to share, a lot of us would love you for it!

:loveya:

Thx for the good news. (of course, as corporations are also moving to thin client/centralized servers (MS as usual) I'm still not hopeful for the future.

Welcome to DU too! :party: :bounce:

[high density]

25. Well I'm just speaking from my own experience over the last two years

There are plenty of jobs out there for people with experience but I see very few entry-level jobs offered, open source or not. I don't want a hobby here, I need a decent payheck so that I can become a functioning member of the "ownership society" instead of leeching off of my parents for the rest of their lives.

[0rganism]

20. industry certs are the key to the "anything to do with computers" market

A bachelor's degree means you can be taught specific skills. A certification means you have been taught those skills. They can make a huge difference.

[lovuian]

21. Organism is exactly right on here!!! in other words Degree's

COUNT!!!

I just know from the 2005 Graduating Business class of UT and many of the graduates got mutiple job offers. which was entirely different than two years ago when everybody was struggling to find anything.

I don't know whats going on but its good news for the new graduates!!!

yes look at hot jobs

None in manufacturing its very ugly!!!

[NawlinsNed]

29. Wrong.

Experience > bachelor's > certificate

A certification means you could read a book and memorize enough of it to pass a test, which is no different than what most college students do to pass their survey classes like Geology 101. They might get you by if you're going to be a tech, but you don't go to college to be a tech, those are what trade schools are for.

Earning a bachelor's degree means you have the capability to think and learn independently. I'll take someone with a BS in CS over the guy with the high school diploma and the MCSE 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. Last time I checked, passing Differential Equations and Computational Theory was a lot more difficult and complex than remembering random registry keys or the steps to remove software from XP.

Experience means that you have learned and used those skills. Which is why any hiring manager or headhunter worth his salt will always go for the guys with experience over the ones with a certificate. I was a headhunter for over a year (hated the job so I quit), but during that time, I was never asked once by managers to find them a certified consultant. They wanted guys with specific experience, and 80% of the time, college education was not nearly as much of a requirement as experience was. The only time certifications ever came up was in making the decision between two similarly qualified individuals.

[0rganism]

30. re-read post #5 for clarity

My advice is adressed specifically to recent college grads looking to get into the alleged hot jobs market for "anything to do with computers."

These students often walk out of the commencement ceremony with their diplomas, little-to-no real-world work experience, and a pile of college loans to pay back, and then they have to compete against one-another for entry-level and junior-level jobs in what is already a competitive field, well-stocked with industry pros laid off during the recent offshoring craze. Indeed, experience is the first criteria for hiring, and the new grads don't have it compared to what their older peers can present on a resume'. They're already at a disadvantage.

So it comes down to one guys BSCS against another's, and while there may be some easy calls like the MIT or Berkely grads, there are also a helluva lot of folks graduating from less prestigious private institutions and state universities. For these "similarly qualified individuals", the certs make a HUGE difference.

You, as a headhunter, should know this much. You know how the database scans work: you run the whole fucking job ad through a keyword filter, then search for those keywords in every resume' in the database, and score them by how closely they line up. Then the HR guys look through the list in descending order, and maybe the first 50 or 100 applicants are even considered for hands-on resume examination, which itself takes about 10 seconds apiece. The top 20 get considered.

So, hypothetically, if the job posting is asking for a BSCS or an MCSE with experience, the guy with the BSCS AND MCSE but NO equivalent experience is going to score higher than the one with just a BSCS, and may -- depending on how the search is constructed by the filter -- score as well as someone with a BSCS and experience, at which point s/he has a chance to go head-to-head in an interview.

Experience > bachelor's > cert, but Experience + cert > Experience, and bachelor's + cert > bachelor's. Nuff said about the priority thing.

Now as to "read a book and memorize enough of it to pass a test," that's the case with some certs, but you'd better not be bucking for your CCIE that way, you'll waste your time, a significant amount of your money, and the time of everyone else involved in administering a two-day hands-on equipment exam. Some of the tech certifications are on par with bar exams for law students, and cover a sufficiently high degree of expertise that you'd be a fool to caste it as trade school material.

As someone who's worked in the "anything to do with computers" industry for over a decade, my advice to anyone who can't get an interview for a desirable job in the area is to get some of those certs. They DO make a difference, both in the resume' scan and in the interview you're more likely to get as a result. And once you have a cert, keep it up-to-date; that shows your (current and prospective) employers that you're willing to do your due diligence.

And once you have a job, don't stop getting trained. "What have you done for me lately?" is a legitimate question that's on every manager's mind during an employee's performance review. If you can show that in addition to fulfilling your job requirements on time you're growing your skillset and taking due diligence seriously, you will have an edge on getting the raise or the promotion or -- quite frankly -- keeping the job during turbulent times. When every middle manager in the business is trying to figure out which programming jobs can be safely shipped to some half-starved college grad in Bangladesh, pulling down six figures as an on-site "tech" might not seem like such a bad deal to a college grad.

[DS1]

31. The most useless windows admin I've ever met was an MSCE

at that point I realized that memorizing various memory requirements and answering multiple choice questions didn't mean diddly.

[Jimbo S]

32. Got my MCSD a few years back

looking for a career change. Got a couple of interviews and that was that. Need a couple of years experience to get anywhere in this field.

[Triana]

45. I've got 20 years experience and...

...I have trouble getting anything.

Good luck. Pfft. The. Jobs. Aren't. There.

And because it's a hiring manager's market, they want a PhD to do desktop support. Why? Because they can, and lots of PhDs are out of work. They'll take the $25 - 35K/year desktop support job.

And you better hope the other 300 applicants for that only IT job in the city (or one of 10 or so) doesn't know someone or isn't an 'internal' applicant. Cause you can just forget it then, no matter what your degree, experience, certs. Won't amount to a hill of beans.

[anarchy1999]

6. More Good NEWS from the Reich Wing Press. Thanks guys. But should

not all these fortunate grads be enlisting for their home and country? We are a nation at war with the "terrorists", right?

Sacrifice all for the good of the "nation", right? Come on kids, step up!

[Swamp Rat]

7. Yeah, and Iraqis are throwing flowers at American liberators.

I am working on my fourth degree and attend job fairs often, so I ain't buying that bridge. :eyes:

[Swamp Rat]

8. Yeah, and Iraqis are throwing flowers at American liberators.

I am working on my fourth degree and attend job fairs often, so I ain't buying that bridge. :eyes:

[fasttense]

9. They contradict themselves.

"And the money may be a little better too. According to NACE, of almost half the employers surveyed, 47 percent plan to pay more while 49 percent plan to maintain salaries at last year's levels.

There is one troubling point. The Economic Policy Institute reports that a survey of graduates who've been in the workforce a few years say fewer employers are offering medical benefits."

How can the money be better when the majority of companies, 49 percent, are not offering more money and they are not getting medical benefits. That's not better money that's worse.

And to include computers on their list of hot job markets is ridiculous. It's only a hot market in India and other countries not paying a living wage. My brother, a rabid repuke, MIT grad, can't find work anywhere and he has years of experience in computer programming and was bringing in a six figure salary five years ago. Now at 35, he rents properties in Florida.

Yeah, better money and good jobs in computers, right. Maybe if they say it often enough people will believe their lies.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

12. computers

hahahahha. OH, that old chestnut.

:rofl:

[Deja Q]

13. I have a degree in biz admin too and have been in the field 12 years...

Can't find jack shit.

If the baby boomers didn't retire, these brats would be as jobless as the rest of us.

Thank the CEOs for opening up jobs and nothing more.

This article is poppyganda, nothing more.

[Kitsune]

16. Then why has only one of my recent-graduate friends found work?

And that, a temporary position for the summer?

Oops.

[dissent1977]

24. I just graduated as well

And I only know two people from my class who have already found jobs.

[stanwyck]

49. I found this report overly optimistic

and not reflective of the job market my recently graduated daughter and her friends are experiencing.
I'm doubtful of the basis of this report.

[AX10]

17. and this "report" comes from GE subsidiary, NBC!

oh gee, I really trust them. ;sarcasm;

--GE = Defense Contractor (Bush has made them very wealthy.

[CityDem]

18. News to me

I didn't know that McDonalds is hiring engineers and accountants.

[Dark]

19. Teaching isn't that lucrative either.

I read in an article in the local paper about how most nearby schools are laying off teachers because the don't have the funds. No child left behind, but teachers are a different matter. . .

[dissent1977]

23. Teaching jobs are in short supply here in Minnesota

My sister has a degree in education, but teachers are being laid off so there are no jobs for those who do not have several years of previous teaching experience and even then it is difficult.

[rainbow4321]

35. History teacher in TX not able to get a job cuz she was not a coach

This was in the local papers a few months ago. Qualified history teacher was turned down by several districts cuz they wanted their coaches to have the history teaching jobs.



http://www.clipfile.org/clips/001376.php

I pulled together some data for North Texas high schools to see how many teachers in each major subject received side pay for also coaching UIL athletics. It turns out that more than one out of every three area social studies teachers also coaches. Proportionally, that's almost four times as many coaches as you find among English teachers, and about twice as many as you find among math and science teachers.

"We look for teaching ability first," said Linda Massey, a Dallas teacher and president of the Texas Council for the Social Studies. "But if there happens to be a coaching position that needs to be filled, that's what they're going to do."

Linda went to a teacher job fair last spring and tried to talk to as many local districts as she could. She said about a dozen of them gave her variations on the same theme: Be a coach and we'll think about hiring you. Last month, she e-mailed one local principal about a possible vacancy for the fall. "There will probably not be any additional openings in SS this year," the principal wrote back. "The need to have coaches has already filled SS."

When I started calling administrators for this column, it was remarkable how quickly they said they didn't want their name in the paper. "I can't believe they'd say it out loud," one top local social studies administrator said before insisting on her name being kept quiet. "I know it happens, but I can't believe they'd say it out loud."

[dsc]

43. It isn't just Texas

Most schools treat social studies departments as repositories for coaches. I was a double major in college Poli Sci and Math but when I went for a teaching degree I chose math since I have less than no coaching ability or interest. The above cases sited are admittedly extreme but not totally off the charts.

[mbperrin]

47. Texas has put coaches in social studies because social studies

wasn't tested under TAAS, but English, math, and science were. However, under the new TAKS, social studies is included, so look for coaches (who are required for some reason to teach two classes) to be migrating into electives, like modern languages, art, various business courses, and computer electives as well.

Coaches are really hired on their win-loss record, not teaching, so administrators don't want their school rating to be decided that way. This is the mess that high-stakes testing is making in Texas.

[dsc]

44. If she is willing to move

she could try the South. North Carolina needs teachers like crazy.

[dissent1977]

22. I am a recent college grad, and things don't look so encouraging

It is very difficult to find the type of job I am looking for with a Sociology degree. I have a pretty strong resume, but if you don't want to be a corporate whore it is very difficult to find a good job.

This is not a good economy no matter how much the corporate media, and the Bush regime try to spin it that way. Non-profits are in serious trouble, and people like me depend on the non-profit sector to provide jobs. I find it depressing to live in a country where corporate jobs are valued, but jobs that actually make a difference in people's lives are in short supply.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[dissent1977]

38. Sociology is a very important field

Laugh it all you want. I have the same degree Martin Luther King had (although admittedly not quite as advanced, I am not a Phd). There should be a lot of jobs in sociology, trying to help people out of poverty, working with people with special needs, etc. The only problem is that our capitalist society teaches us that it is better to exploit people than to help them, meaning the organizations that are looking for sociology majors are underfunded.

So laugh all you want, I am proud of my degree.

[The Flaming Red Head]

40. What about the peace corp

don't they pay off Perkins loans?

I should have a degree but after years of 6 to 9 hours a semester with a good GPA and being full time mom with full time jobs and mountains of debt, the school I am attending has decided to not take my credits or me seriously. I'm looking at paying on something for the rest of my life that I never received.

[LiberallyInclined]

41. it's good to be proud...

but somebosy's still gotta flip the burgers.

"...There should be a lot of jobs in sociology, trying to help people out of poverty, working with people with special needs, etc. The only problem is that our capitalist society teaches us that it is better to exploit people than to help them, meaning the organizations that are looking for sociology majors are underfunded."

Stop It= you're killing me...(ROLFMAO, btw...)

are you for real?
did you just wake-up this morning and figure out that whole "capitalist" thing...? didn't they even touch on it a little bit in one of those high-falutin', rootin'-tootin' sociology classes?(too bad they didn't bring it up in the fresh/soph level classes- when there was still time to...change your major

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA....

you are TOO cute.

really...

[cire4]

42. Apparently the concept of majoring in a field you enjoy.....

is lost on you.

While we're demeaning sociology, let's demean English, Philosophy, History, Comparative Literature, and Classics as well. Perhaps we should do away with all these liberal arts fields. After all, they must be worthless if they don't help you get a job and earn lots of money, which is the only valuable thing in today's world.

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[LiberallyInclined]

57. Major in whatever field you like...

just don't complain later because there's no decent paying entry-level jobs for those fields...sheesh.

afer all, if people take a course of study for the love of it, then it shouldn't matter to them how much they make, now should it?

:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:
:eyes: :eyes: :eyes:

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

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[Lilith Velkor]

62. Actually

Assholes like that *do* run this country for the most part. They want everybody to be money-grubbing little shitstains like them.

I bet that fucking loser prick is in middle management. The smarmy attitude and palpable bitterness are dead giveaways.

[LiberallyInclined]

65. so you've resorted to name-calling now...

so much for that high-level edjamacation you were flaunting earlier, i guess...

btw- you never mentioned just what type of job you were expecting, or that you want to find...( "It is very difficult to find the type of job I am looking for with a Sociology degree..." and btw- even if it's just enough to pay the bills- it is about how much you make- otherwise you could do volunteer work)

:hi:

[dissent1977]

69. So maybe did call you a name, it is not like you have been completely...

civil. You were the one that began the personal attacks. So guess what, if you don't launch personal attacks on me I won't launch personal attacks on you. Does that sound fair? Don't stand on your high pedestal and pretend that you have been above personal attacks, because everyone who reads this message board can see that has not been the case.

On edit: Make sure you read the next post as well.

[dissent1977]

70. So you don't want name calling

Well then I will tell you exactly what I think of your comments without resorting to personal attacks (and let me remind you that you repeatedly attacked me).

I think that your attitude shows your absolute disdain for a liberal arts education. Where exactly do you think this country would be if everyone majored in business?

Where do you think this country would be if everyone had to only focus on the high paying fields, and completely ignore the important battles that need to be fought in this country? Who would there be to fight poverty, to fight for civil rights, to fight for a clean environment, to fight for peace, to help those with mental illnesses or physical disabilities? You can not expect those who are worried about the size of their paycheck to do it.

Now you can tell me that I too am worried about the size of my pay check. Now in a sense this is true, I like everyone else have certain needs that need to be met. I need a way to survive in this world, and I can not do that without shelter, food, transportation, etc. Now, I want a job that can help me pay for my basic necessities, is that too much to ask?

I am willing to work for a fairly low wage, if I can find a job in which I can help make this society a better place. I majored in sociology not out of ignorance, but because I understand the need our society has for people who know something about the hardships others deal with. Is there something wrong with that? Do you wish that everyone only sought education for profit and not for knowledge? Isn't knowledge the purpose of education? I went to school because I wanted to learn, and I wanted to make a difference? Do you really think there is anything wrong with that?

Your "grown-up work experience" means nothing if you do not use it to make it to make this world a better place. Work experience only means you have the knowledge to operate at your level of work. It does not mean you understand the world. If you don't care if we don't have an educated population that is your opinion, but I don't share it.

I happen to be very proud of my degree, and you personally attacked me on it. Do you understand why I blew up and called you some names? Would you not be a little upset if you worked really hard for something and succeeded only to be ridiculed for it? It has been a long time since I have been as angry at anyone on a message board as I am at you right now. I don't call people names very often, but you drew me over that line.

Please don't ask for an apology from me, I stand by my words.

[LiberallyInclined]

71. you STILL haven't answered the BASIC question-

this whole little offshoot started because i was amused by your bemoaning the fact that you couldn't find a decent-paying job with a newly-minted sociology degree...

i've asked before, and i'll ask again- what specific job or even job category did you have in mind when you pursued your chosen degree field?(btw- did you fund your own college education?)

so far the closest you've come to an answer is: "I am willing to work for a fairly low wage, if I can find a job in which I can help make this society a better place..."(wow...that's deep.

surely you must have had a career in mind at least somewhere along the way, as you(or someone) kept plunking down the cash to pay for your 4-year exploration into the hardships others deal with(btw- since you want to make the world a better place, and understand peoples hardships, you obviously must have spent quite a lot of time volunteering at homeless shelters and the like- can't any of the contacts you made doing that help you get your foot in the door in a social service career?)

I think that your attitude shows your absolute disdain for a liberal arts education.
no, my disdain is for freshly-minted college grads who think they know everything about everything, and bemoan the lack of decent-paying jobs in their chosen profession. i was a liberal-arts major myself, at u of i in champaign, a couple years after you were born, if i interpret your screen name correctly.

Where exactly do you think this country would be if everyone majored in business?

where did i ever suggest such a thing? people can major in whatever they want- but especially with the cost of college these days, it's a good idea to have a career path in mind when choosing a major...after all, if your only goal is to make the world a better place, and understand people's hardships- why do you even need a college edjucation to do that? i'm willing to bet that spending 4 years volunteering your time to charitable causes would have given you more working knowledge and insight than you'd get in any sociology classes.

"I went to school because I wanted to learn, and I wanted to make a difference? Do you really think there is anything wrong with that?"
not at all- as long as somewhere along the 4-year line you formulate a career plan to best utilize your expensive book-learning upon graduation, rather than just wait until the end, and then just throw up your hands in frustration, that nobody has thought to provide you with the professional world-changing position you so richly deserve- even though you yourself haven't a clue about just what that position might be or entail.

"Your "grown-up work experience" means nothing if you do not use it to make it to make this world a better place. Work experience only means you have the knowledge to operate at your level of work. It does not mean you understand the world..."
and being a fresh-out-of-college-big-time-sociology-major does mean that you understand the world? and you're the one wondering where all the sociology jobs are?

"If you don't care if we don't have an educated population that is your opinion, but I don't share it..."
(you're making me chuckle harder, again- cut it out...) where in the world did you ever come up with that interpretation of the opinion that you have proclaimed as mine?

"I happen to be very proud of my degree, and you personally attacked me on it..."
what i "attacked" was your air of entitlement, and bewilderment over the derth of decent-paying, world-changing positions for fresh-outta-college would-be sociologists...didn't you ever once, somewhere along the way take a moment to consider a post-college career path, and formulate a plan for getting it going?

like way too many people at your age, you appear to think that your new degree bestows upon you the knowledge and wisdom of the ages, and a deeper-than-deep-understanding of the human condition, and that workplace doors should therefore open wide, and the less-educated-than-you worker bees should all marvel at the wonder of the american post-secondary education system that you embody.

as for myself, i probably don't have to go into it, seeing as you've obviously got me totally pegged, and completely 'figgered'-out, but here goes-
i was a liberal-arts major when i left school in my junior year- I didn't have a very good handle on my own career path, other than to know that i didn't want any kind of corporate job, and as college is predominantly a corporate taining camp, i decided that further funding of study at that particular juncture in my life wasn't a very good investment- so i went into the building trades- i got to work outside, with my hands, at my own pace, and the money was VERY decent for the time(i was the first of my crowd to actually earn my age). i also had the privilege to participate in several habitat for humanity projects over the years...
and then a previously undetected congenital auto-immune disorder of the spine showed up and fairly quickly forced me into disability when i was just 38...now i mostly spend my days doing art stuff(found-art garden fountains are my current phase) and learning things and taking my meds, doing my PT, and serving to the best of my ability in the capacity of househusband to my wonderful workaday wife and our three very-demanding cats.

& btw- why would you think i'd be interested in seeking an apology from you anyway?

[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[LiberallyInclined]

58. not at all-

why do you have to complain that there are no decent-paying entry-level jobs for sociology majors? if you love what you do, why should it matter what you make?(btw- you did major in sociology by choice, right? what high-paying jobs were you anticipating?)

as far as being willing to bet that you are far more educated than I- if you're just a recent college grad, then that's a bet you lose- I've got 25 years more life-experience than you- most of it in the grown-up workplace that you seem so hopeful to enter...and nothing teaches like experience- that's why so many employers require it.

don't worry- you'll get there...eventually...probably.

(but i still get a chuckle out of your disdain about your recent experiences with the facts of life- poor, poor, you... :eyes: )

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[dejaboutique]

53. that is pretty low to pull out your laughter

what the heck are you laughing at. a degree is an accomplishment and yes, sociologists should be in high demand because our society is FUC$ed up! maybe before you laugh you have a job to offer a recent grad. nice attitude.

[LiberallyInclined]

59. why should i have a job offer for a recent grad?

especially a sociology major?

you say that socilogists should be in high demand because our society is fucked-up???

ummm...what exactly would a whole herd of high-paid sociologists do to correct our 'fucked-up' society???

and who would pay them?

:eyes:

[shrike]

64. Don't know what they'd do

But I'm afraid I'd rather have people like them take a crack at it than folks with your mindset. And you and your mindset have plenty of company, I'm afraid.

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[depakid]

26. "Experts say" LOL.

Sometimes, you just have to laugh-

People will believe anything these days, it seems.

[AgadorSparticus]

28. The problem with these numbers is that they are misleading.

It is not a true indicator of the economy or the work force. Yes, corporations are hiring new grads like crazy. What they are not telling you is that they are pink slipping all the old timers because they don't want to have to pay for their 20 years of knowledge. So, they are willing to go for the new grad, train them, and not worry about their budgets. What happens to these new grads in say, 10 years?

And what happened to all those baby boomers that are close to retirement? Not everyone is sitting pretty on top of a large nest egg.

[MountainLaurel]

50. Another issue: deprofessionalization

I finished my library science degree in December, and one of the huge concerns in our field is deprofessionalization. As the boomers retire (when they're able to) and budgets are but, more and more places are using paraprofessionals with bachelor's degrees to perform tasks best suited to librarians with master's training. Or, they're only hiring full librarians on a part-time basis to get around benefits.

This is likewise an issue in the medical profession, where a hospital floor might have one registered nurse (bachelor's and master's level) and the rest LPNs (two-year degrees) and nursing aides. Same with the rise of physicians' assistants.

[lovuian]

55. I know for a fact a Bachelors Degree Nurse in the Hospital

does the same work as a two year Associate Degree Nurse. And they get paid the same...

Both Nurses are state licensed...

According to the state they can do the same work... and they do and they get paid the same...

starting exactly the same!!!

[rainbow4321]

33. Americans can't even get into US nursing schools

Some are having to leave the US just to get into a nursing program..not enough nursing instructors/classes. Combine THAT with the number of baby boomer nurses that will be retiring soon and those still young enough to work but are just plain burnt out....we are headed for a massive nursing/healthcare crisis very soon:

http://www.smdailyjournal.org/article.cfm?issue=06-17-05&storyID=44167

People like Kate Zajdel are desperately needed to fill a worldwide shortage of nurses. Yet she was among tens of thousands of qualified applicants turned away by U.S. nursing programs last year because there are not enough teachers or space. The dilemma brought the 22-year-old New Yorker to a new international nursing school in the Caribbean country of St. Kitts and Nevis. “I got put on a waiting list at four community colleges,” Zajdel said. “I decided that instead of waiting, I would come here. ... I will actually be able to save lives.”

American entrepreneur Robert Ross inaugurated the International University of Nursing on Wednesday, inspired by staffing shortages that are forcing nurses to work overtime in hospitals from the United States to Japan.

The $10 million institution, surrounded by sugar cane fields and overlooking the sea, accepted 200 students for the fall semester and aims to enroll 3,000 by 2008. Tuition for the program lasting about 79 weeks is $41,505 and students have to make their own living arrangements. After about 45 weeks here, the students will do approximately 34 weeks of clinical work at affiliated U.S. colleges.


The school prepares students to take licensing exams to work as registered nurses in the United States, promising to lure foreign students eager to fill a shortage that the American Nurses Association expects to reach 275,000 by 2010. U.S. nursing programs rejected more than 125,000 qualified applicants last year because they did not have enough slots, according to the New York-based National League for Nursing, which estimates the United States needs triple the 20,000 nursing teachers it has.

-------------

http://www.ndtv.com/morenews/showmorestory.asp?slug=Indian+nurses+make+a+beeline+for+US&id=74480


After the brain drain of scientists, doctors and software engineers from India, it is now the turn of nurses. If it was the Gulf in the 80s, the new destination in the 21st century is the United States.

For young students like Neelima, it is the lure of salaries that are at least four to eight times higher. Not just that, clearing the requisite exam in nursing proficiency and English is a passport directly to a greencard and possible US citizenship. So even demand in the marital market goes up several notches.

"Most of the nurses will take the profession to serve the people and also, we can earn more abroad. We are all aware of it. Even doctors don't get the US immigration visa, but they are providing lot of facilities for the nurses,'' said Neelima.

"By 2015, US will need minimum 1.5 million nurses. India does not have that kind of number of nurses to give,'' said K R Gangadharan, healthcare expert.

[lovuian]

36. There will be a crisis and the Hospitals will have to pay more!!!

And they are in a panic!!! the older baby boomer nurses have been worked and worked and the young nurses are not able to keep up with the incredible workload and burn out easily!!!

the trend of the Diploma Nurse and Associate Degree Nurse was replaced with the BS Degree Nurse and the other programs were closed!!!

which caused even a bigger crisis!!!

I agree there are not enough nurses in India to fill these slots!!!

[rainbow4321]

37. Part of the most recent Iraq $$ bill was about nurses...

Tucked into the bill was a nice little gift for hospitals (and Frists' family who owns HCA facilities).
50,000 visas are being approved for foreign nurses to come into the country...translated that means American nurses who ask for a decent living wage will be shoved aside for lower paying nurses that will be shipped in by the hospitals.



http://www.mysanantonio.com/sharedcontent/APStories/stories/D89S1C582.html

What started out as border security measures in an Iraq-Afghanistan spending bill became immigration legislation as lawmakers added new visas for foreigners and did away with some asylum limits.

<snip>

Those measures survived negotiations despite widespread opposition in the Senate. As the bill made its way through the process, it grew to provide 10,500 visas for Australians and up to 50,000 visas that went unused between 2001-04 for nurses or their family members.

"The shortage our hospitals are facing is coming close to epidemic proportions," said Chris Paulitz, spokesman for Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Texas. "Americans are not getting the health care they deserve but are dependent on. We limited this to 50,000 existing visas not being used to be used for nurses."

[Media_Lies_Daily]

39. Bwahahahahaha! What a load!

[HughBeaumont]

48. Everything is just fine, peasantry . . .

What a load o' shite this article is. Yeah, maybe if you're willing to move and pay 600 grand for a 1200-square-foot 55-year-old house. Other than certain areas, the job market is quite shitty for most of the country.

[Logansquare]

51. WOW! She got AN interview. n/t

[Behind the Aegis]

54. Another article

There is another article about this, I can't remember where I saw it. However, it says about the same thing, but more emphasis was put on this (taken from this article)..."There is one troubling point. The Economic Policy Institute reports that a survey of graduates who've been in the workforce a few years say fewer employers are offering medical benefits." That's right! More jobs!!! Less Pay!! No Benefits!!! Come and get'em!!

Meanwhile, those of us with 10 years experience and a master's are screwed! Two years, and still no job! After 450+ applications, a score of interviews, many positions were pulled for funding, hired from within, or hired some less qualified, for less money. The economy is on life-support, but somehow I don't think the Rethugs will have a problem pulling the plug this time!

[geniph]

56. "Want fries with that?"

Better practice THAT interview skill, honey. It's a great job market out there if you want to flip burgers or clerk at Wal-Mart for minimum wage and off-the-clock overtime.

[neuvocat]

63. At least it counts a manufacturing job.

Under this administration anyway.

[leesa]

68. You know, I'm really beginning to hate Tuesday Propaganda Day

[ckramer]

73. In a way this is funny

All these CEOs robbing people's money in tens of million in their prime, yet when they getting old, they are robbed by the nursing home.

Wooopee!

Too bad, you can't bring all the money you made to Hell!

And you will die in 72 just like every body else.