FBI Managers Admit They Didn't Seek Out Terrorism Expertise

[cal04]

AP Enterprise: FBI Managers Admit They Didn't Seek Out Terrorism Expertise After Sept. 11

In sworn testimony that contrasts with their promises to the public, the FBI managers who crafted the post-Sept. 11 fight against terrorism say expertise about the Mideast or terrorism was not important in choosing the agents they promoted to top jobs. And they still do not believe such experience is necessary today even as terrorist acts occur across the globe.

"A bombing case is a bombing case," said Dale Watson, the FBI's terrorism chief in the two years after Sept. 11, 2001. "A crime scene in a bank robbery case is the same as a crime scene, you know, across the board." The FBI's current terror-fighting chief, Executive Assistant Director Gary Bald, said his first terrorism training came "on the job" when he moved to headquarters to oversee anti-terrorism strategy two years ago.

Asked about his grasp of Middle Eastern culture and history, Bald responded: "I wish that I had it. It would be nice." "You need leadership. You don't need subject matter expertise," Bald testified in an ongoing FBI employment case. "It is certainly not what I look for in selecting an official for a position in a counterterrorism position." In a development that has escaped public attention, FBI agent Bassem Youssef has questioned under oath many of the FBI's top leaders, including Director Robert Mueller and his predecessor, Louis Freeh, in an effort to show he has passed over for top terrorism jobs despite his expertise. Testimony from his lawsuit was recently sent to Congress.

Those who have held the bureau's top terrorism fighting jobs since Sept. 11 often said in their testimony that they - and many they have promoted since - had no significant terrorism or Middle East experience. Some could not even explain the difference between Sunnis and Shiites, the two primary groups of Muslims. "Probably the strongest leader I know in counterterrorism has no counterterrorism in his background," Bald insisted.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBQ3ZUC5AE.html

[displacedtexan]

1. The Backside Of The Bell Curve is in charge.

Fucking idiots don't even know they're fucking idiots.

[formercia]

2. This is so classic FBI

Asked about his grasp of Middle Eastern culture and history, Bald responded: "I wish that I had it. It would be nice." "You need leadership. You don't need subject matter expertise," Bald testified in an ongoing FBI employment case. "It is certainly not what I look for in selecting an official for a position in a counterterrorism position."


What a fucking idiot.

[bemildred]

8. This is American management theory anywhere you go.

It's why we are getting our ass handed to us on a plate in international trade, why there are no jobs, and why our standard of living is in the toilet and our environment being polluted to death. Management is seen as a separate subject from any particular "subject matter" expertise, you don't need to know about cars to manage an auto manufacturer, it's all about money. It's a flat-earth view of the world, everything is reduced to money, all value is measured in money, and nothing else gets a hearing. The bosses basic point of view is: "I'm doing great, I've got money out the wazoo, what's the problem with you people anyway?".

[formercia]

9. Bean Counters promoting Bean Counters

they play with their metrics and determine promotions based on how many politically correct memos the candidate has generated.

[bobbieinok]

19. my dad (1908-1995) was a CPA and head of acctg dept...his view:

he mistrusted MBAs....felt they only knew how to manage

he often said US business started to go crazy when firms were no longer run by the people who started them or by people who had worked their way up in the firm

he was also suspicious of all the mergers.....'who in these giant merged conglomerates understands what exactly the product of each firm is and how it is best produced and sold and serviced?'

probably a very old-fashioned view now, but he sure didn't care about that

[leQ]

30. the old man is wise beyond his years.

that's exactly how i see it. things have gotten to the point where the CEOs aren't able to identify the products they make.

[SlavesandBulldozers]

21. yes

excellent post

[Frederik]

11. The Dubya Doctrine

"You need leadership. You don't need subject matter expertise"

[Rex]

29. He's the Bolton of the FBI

nt

[applegrove]

3. They especially like the intelligence officers who have no "assumptions"

or expertise. Remember Rummy's "assumptions" about how the war in Iraq could be pared down to only 1/4 of the troops in the original plan?

That went well!

[formercia]

4. That's why the're called the FBI

Fucking Bunch of Idiots

[ElectroPrincess]

5. Too funny - Too much "ole' boy" political promotions on

the inside. Seemingly it was the SCUM vice the CREAM that rose to the top.

It's unfortunate that the average agents DID THEIR JOBS but the inept middle to upper management were political enough to ignore all stories that might upset the Executive Branch crones. They do need an overhaul from the Top - down.

IMO most "street / entry-level agents are 100% honest, it's many of their leaders that should be held to task.

[lyonn]

26. Good analogy. nt

[EFerrari]

6. Dale Watson is a familiar name.

Did he work with John O'Neil or with Richard Clarke?

[Frederik]

12. Sibel Edmonds mentioned him

I think he started just before 9/11, like Mueller. He was apparently protecting infiltrators from a private intelligence gathering organization in the FBI.

[EFerrari]

16. Really. He also worked with either O'Neil or Clarke as well.

Can't remember which at the moment.

[maddezmom]

7. another AP headline: AP: Terror Expertise Not Priority at FBI

kind of sums it all up doesn't it? :eyes:

[formercia]

10. Yup

still clueless.

[marbuc]

13. As with every other Bush Administration mistake

it's Clinton's fault.

[KeepItReal]

14. The folks have obviously risen *past* their level of incompetence at FBI

"In a Hierarchy Every Employee Tends to Rise to His Level of Incompetence." - Lawrence J. Peter


Actual talent ain't necessary if you are running the show?...



" Various file photos of, from left, former FBI Director Louis Freeh, FBI Terrorism Chief Dale Watson, FBI Director Robert Mueller and FBI Executive Assisant Director Gary Bald. In sworn testimony that conflicts with the FBI's promises to the public, the managers who crafted the bureau's post-Sept. 11 war on terror say emphatically they didn't seek out supervisors with Middle Eastern or terrorism expertise and they still don't believe such experience is necessary today."

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/photos/W/WX10106191511.html?SITE=OHTOL&SECTION=US&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT

[Chauga]

15. Who needs experts? Bush already knows it all.

[marbuc]

17. God tells Bush all he needs to know n/t

[ooglymoogly]

18. maybe they realize terror is just a pawn in the hands

of the far more powerful movers and shakers....prime example *co. ...safer to go after pot smokers on gurneys.

[Rose Siding]

20. NYT: In depo, Mueller didn't know of bin laden connection w/ blind sheik

In Letter to Senators, Lawyer Criticizes Top F.B.I. Officials

WASHINGTON, June 19 - A lawyer who interviewed a number of top current and former counterterrorism officials at the F.B.I. in connection with a lawsuit against the bureau has written to three senators saying that the officials lacked a detailed understanding of terrorism and were promoted to top jobs despite having little experience in the field.

In a 15-page letter, the lawyer, Stephen M. Kohn, wrote that the F.B.I.'s top counterterrorism officials said in sworn depositions that they did not know the relationship between Al Qaeda and Jamal Islamia, a South Asia offshoot of the terror network. Nor were they aware of the linkage between Osama bin Laden and Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a spiritual adviser to Mr. bin Laden with whom he had been closely associated since the 1980's.

Mr. Kohn said that F.B.I. Director Robert S. Mueller III, in his deposition, seemed unsure of Mr. bin Laden's relationship to Sheik Rahman, who is better known as the blind sheik and was convicted in 1996 on terrorism charges. Asked if he was aware of their relationship, Mr. Mueller is quoted in Mr. Kohn's letter as saying he was not.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/19/politics/19cnd-terror.html?ex=1276833600&en=0fe1c511ecc47bbf&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[maddezmom]

22. The FBI Director is too busy arresting folks that have no terror ties

to up the numbers for the Patriot Act....doesn't have time for learning about OBL. :eyes:

[Pryderi]

23. FBI Says Counterterror Experts Not Crucial

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/20/AR2005062000475.html

"By JOHN SOLOMON
The Associated Press
Monday, June 20, 2005; 1:06 PM

WASHINGTON -- The FBI vowed to build national expertise for fighting terrorists after the Sept. 11 attacks, but the supervisors who crafted that war plan now say Middle East and terrorism experience haven't been important for choosing their agents.

"You need leadership. You don't need subject matter expertise," Executive Assistant Director Gary Bald recently testified in a little noticed employment case now catching the eye of Congress. "It is certainly not what I look for in selecting an official for a position in a counterterrorism position."


In this undated family handout photo, FBI Counterterrorism agent Bassem Youssef, right, stands with the FBI Director Louis Freeh. In a development that has escaped public attention, FBI agent Bassem Youssef has questioned under oath many of the FBI's top leaders, including Director Robert Mueller and his predecessor, Louis Freeh, in an effort to show he was passed over for top terrorism jobs despite his expertise.

The lawsuit, brought against the FBI by one of its most accomplished pre-Sept. 11 terror-fighting agents, provides sharp contrasts between the bureau's public promises and the reality of how it has chosen the agents who run its war on terrorism.

In hundreds of pages of sworn testimony obtained by The Associated Press, senior FBI managers argued repeatedly that Middle East and anti-terrorism experience aren't required for promotion and that they see little difference between solving a traditional crime and a terror attack."

--------

This is terrible! Don't we need experts in order to fight against terrorism????

Leaders=Bush 'Yes' men?

[gordianot]

24. First you need to figure out who the real terrorist are in order to fight.

Read the definition wonder who the terrorist are? Foreign or Domestic?

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence against people or property to coerce or intimidate governments or societies, often to achieve political, religious, or ideological objectives. (JCS Pub 1-02)
www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/policy/army/fm/100-20/10020gl.htm

a violent act in violation of the criminal laws of the United States, which is intended to intimidate or influence the policy of a government.
www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/respect/spring02-glossary.cfm

The use of extreme violence or the threat of violence by states, groups or individuals to generate fear in individuals and thus manipulate their behavior. Currently, most terrorism is drug or religion based. Some define the term widely to include topics like spanking of children or the teaching of an eternity of torture in Hell as forms of physical or spiritual terrorism.
www.religioustolerance.org/gl_t.htm

[lyonn]

25. Read this interview yesterday, ugh

This type of logic is so unbelievable that it is no wonder we are in the situation we are in, war and all. The FBI saw no need to keep the middle east expert, agent, involved after the 9-11 attack, "just leadership" was needed in the FBI! Fits in with the DSM thinking. Make the intelligence fit the plan. We are in deep doo-doo if some serious investigating isn't done. Special prosecutor where are you?

[Javaman]

27. Morons* FBI, just making shit up as they go along.

"we know everything! we don't need no stinking experts! what do they know anyway? How to find terrorists or something? Ha Ha Ha, I spit on you!"

[maddezmom]

28. FBI Chief Won't Mandate Terror Expertise

By JOHN SOLOMON, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 56 minutes ago



WASHINGTON - FBI supervisors in the war on terror have acknowledged they lacked expertise, but Director Robert Mueller says he is unwilling to require such managers to have backgrounds in Arabic, the Middle East or international issues.

~snip~

The subject came up in the case of an agent who complained that he had been passed over for promotion in favor of less-experienced men.

Mueller described his own expertise in Middle Eastern terrorism as having been "relatively limited" when he took over the FBI a week before the Sept. 11 attacks. For instance, he acknowledged he didn't know that a blind sheik imprisoned for plotting attacks in New York had been a spiritual adviser to Osama bin Laden.

"I am not certain of the role played between the blind sheik and bin Laden," Mueller conceded.

Mueller also testified he didn't give any guidance to his top managers to seek out the bureau's most experienced counterterrorism agents to work on the war on terror immediately after Sept. 11.

~snip~
more: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050620/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/fbi_terror_jobs/nc:693;_

[Up2Late]

31. FBI officials' knowledge of terrorism under fire (NYT/ IHT)

FBI officials' knowledge of terrorism under fire

By David Johnston The New York Times

TUESDAY, JUNE 21, 2005

WASHINGTON A lawyer who interviewed a number of top current and former counterterrorism officials at the FBI in connection with a lawsuit against the bureau has written to three senators saying that the officials lacked a detailed understanding of terrorism and were promoted to top jobs despite having little experience in the field.

In a 15-page letter, the lawyer, Stephen Kohn, wrote that the FBI's top counterterrorism officials said in sworn depositions that they did not know the relationship between Al Qaeda and Jemaah Islamiya, a South Asia offshoot of the terror network. Nor were they aware of the linkage between Osama bin Laden and Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman, a spiritual adviser to bin Laden with whom he had been closely associated since the 1980s.

Kohn said that the FBI director, Robert Mueller 3rd, in his deposition, seemed unsure of bin Laden's relationship to Rahman, who is better known as the blind sheik and was convicted in 1996 on terrorism charges. Asked if he was aware of their relationship, Mueller is quoted in Kohn's letter as saying he was not.

Kohn's letter of June 17 was written to two Republicans, Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania and Charles Grassley of Iowa, and one Democrat, Patrick Leahy of Vermont, each of whom has long had an interest in FBI matters. Kohn said in the letter that he was disclosing the information from the depositions at Grassley's request. "Since 9/11 and up to today, the FBI has been led by managers without counterterrorism experience or background especially in Middle Eastern terrorism, and their testimony under oath is that they are learning about counterterrorism on the job," Kohn wrote.

<http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/20/news/terror.php>
(More at link above)

[gumby]

32. The less you know

the more you are promoted in BushLand.

[jobycom]

33. And the more you know

The more likely you are to resign in protest.