Senators Cannot Meet Iraq War dead - Joe Biden

[carincross]

I found the following interaction so unbelievable I had to read the transcript this morning. As Senator of Delaware Mr. Biden is frequently on the base but cannot pay his respects as bodies arrive from Iraq.



http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/face_061905.pdf

Face the Nation CBS News

Conversation between Sen. Joseph Biden and Bob Schieffer / Karen Tumulty(06/19/05)
Sen. BIDEN: I'm a United States senator. Well, let me be very...

SCHIEFFER: They're not letting you on a military base? (Dover Air Force Base – Dover, Delaware)

Sen. BIDEN: I'm allowed in the military base. I'm not allowed to go to the mortuary. I'm not allowed to be there when the flag-draped casket comes in. As a matter of fact, Bob, one family asked me whether I would meet their son who was tragically gunned down, actually car bomb in Iraq. This is several months ago. I said I would be honored to be with them. They wanted me to come with the minister. They wanted me through the whole process. The commander of the base told me that he couldn't allow that to happen and he's a friend--this is not like there's no hostility there; I'm on the base all the time--until he cleared it with the Pentagon. And I'm told the civilian leadership in the Pentagon. So in order for me to literally go in and accompany a mom and a dad and a son to pick up the body of a dead son, a young Marine killed in Iraq, I was not just able to do it as a senior United States senator, former chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee--not like I'm new to this. I had to get specific permission for that specific event. ...It's the civilian decision in the Defense Department that you're not allowed to be there just to show respects.



I have included the link to the pdf file and most of the interaction, although there is more. This section comes about half way through the broadcast. You can quickly find the section by searching for the word “Dover”.

[Oversea Visitor]

1. Wow just wow

and all the senators did not make a fuss for so long? :rofl: :rofl:

[opihimoimoi]

3. Who is the fucking nerd to say nay to US SENATORS visiting the Base

and accompanying Relativces of a deceased soldier???

How in the fuck can this shit happem much less continue??

And this is supposed to be FREEDOM?

[Oversea Visitor]

5. I fail to understand

The US Senators if this is true. Are they all under the spell of the one ring???
:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[jwirr]

41. I didn't read it as a problem with

senators. I read it as one more strike against rummydummy and his minions. They do not allow the senators access! Who is overseeing the government if senators cannot have free access to bases?

[Norquist Nemesis]

15. Schieffer asked Biden who makes the decision

Biden made it clear that it is the CIVILIAN officials in the Pentagon and not the military officials. <points finger directly at Rumsfeld>

[Media_Lies_Daily]

26. It comes from the very top levels of the NeoCon Junta....

...my question is as follows: What are they hiding by not allowing reporters to photograph the incoming coffins? Are they afraid that the numbers might not add up to what we're being told?

[Nancy Waterman]

48. The numbers don't add up

I read somewhere and then heard it confirmed today by an ex soldier on Air America that the count of soldiers who have died DOES NOT include those who are wounded and then die on the way to a hospital or die in a hospital even briefly after a battle. The death statistic ONLY includes those who die on the battlefield. In other words, the real number of deaths is much, much higher.

This is a huge deception, and I think the American people may start to get wind of it in the coming month or so. The story has begun to seep through the blockade.

[Safe as Milk]

52. Breaking the story would be simple:

All a reporter or news bureau would have to do is request the data from the DoD: How many soldiers from Iraq died during transit to hospital, or died in hospital, as a result of wounds suffered in the combat zone, since March of 2003?

If the DoD stonewalls, THAT'S a news story. If the DoD surrenders information, then THAT'S a news story. Whatever the outcome, there are millions who would appreciate the effort. But would any editor have the balls to assign a journalist to the task?

Don't hold your breath.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

36. DON'T INSULT NERDS. This is an ASSHOLE. Totally different animal. (nt)

[ngGale]

2. Biden has a son in Iraq - and being Senator should...

have the right he asked for. Could be they may think he's just smart enough to hear something they don't want him to. Counting the coffins coming in, since there is some talk of fudged figures. Who knows, but I've never heard anything like this.

[cornermouse]

6. It could be due to the obsessive need for control that the Bush

Corporation has. This really surprises me.

[jean]

20. "bush Corporation" - exactly right

[katty]

44. Obessive, fanatical, cultish, control? Yea, no shit

[DRoseDARs]

7. I wnder if Biden would hve 2 resign as a Senator should the unthinkable...

...happen to his son just to be allowed to see the flag-draped coffin come home.

[cyberpj]

10. NO, Biden does NOT have a son in Iraq - He's an attorney in Natl Guard

We Delawareans believe Joe is implying his son is in Iraq but it's all a set-up for Beau's political future here. Seems the Biden's want to create their own little Delaware political father/son act.

I did find one online site stating Beau was in Iraq but that's incorrect. Here are some details:
=============================================
Upcoming 2006 Elections:

For ATTORNEY GENERAL:
Currently M. Jane Brady (R)* - (Campaign Site)

Joseph "Beau" Biden III (D) - Attorney, National Guard Veteran & Son of US Sen. Biden

http://www.politics1.com/de.htm

Feb. 09, 2005
Wilmington lawyer Joseph R. "Beau" Biden 3d said his father wasn't any different at home.

"I've grown up with it," the younger Biden said. "At the dinner table. Playing football with my friends. On C-Span. That's the way he is."

http://www.philly.com/mld/inquirer/news/front/10850708.htm?1c

Posted: March 28, 2005
POLI-TICKING
Speech? Speech?

Joseph R. "Beau" Biden III flew solo the other night, speaking for himself and not for his father-the-senator when he keynoted the Sussex County Democrats' spring dinner in Seaford.

http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/3-05politicking3.asp

Posted: Oct. 19, 2004
IT'S FATHER-AND-SON POLITICS FOR THE BIDENS
By Celia Cohen
Grapevine Political Writer

U.S. Sen. Joseph R. Biden Jr. is out there making the political headlines he always does in an election season, but this time his son Joseph R. "Beau" Biden III is turning up increasingly in the fine print.

Joe and Beau. Joe Biden is two years into his sixth term, a state record, and so much a part of the national Democratic constellation that he keeps getting mentioned for secretary of state if John F. Kerry can pull this election out. Beau Biden is a Wilmington lawyer, a former federal prosecutor almost universally regarded as being on the threshold of his own political career.

(snip)
Almost standard these days, Joe Biden invoked Beau Biden's name as a means of personalizing why foreign policy is so critical in the presidential election. Beau Biden is a lieutenant in the Delaware Army National Guard, and Joe Biden said the decisions the country makes will determine whether his son goes to Iraq and gets the support he needs if he does.

http://www.delawaregrapevine.com/10-04joe&beau.asp

? Early 2005 ?
Also, regardless of what you think of Senator Joseph Biden (D-DE), it's undeniable that he helped to pin the bars on his son, Beau Biden, who is a member of the Delaware Army National Guard (there's a picture of him being sworn in here). Although Beau isn't in the line of fire (he is currently practicing as a judge advocate), he is a military serviceman nonetheless.

? Late 2004 ?
Delaware Senator Joseph Biden's son Beau is on active duty; although Beau Biden has no control over he is deployed, he has not been sent to Iraq...

http://www.bowlingfortruth.com/fahrenheit911/warsignup.htm

[wallwriter]

13. Someone should compile a list of everyone in Congress with

service age offspring and how many of them are actually in the armed services.

[JRob]

22. it would (most likely) be a short list... Like Repubs that served.

[LynneSin]

21. Biden's son is on Active Duty - he is not in Iraq yet

He's a lawyer with the JAG and serves out of the Delaware National Guards. I doubt that JOe has any control if his son get sent to Iraq but being part of the JAG makes it highly unlikely

[magellan]

4. I can't think of one good reason why the DoD should deny Biden

...especially when a grieving family has specifically requested his presence when they retrieve their son's body. But I'm not sneaky and underhanded like BushCo.

Any bets on whether Rumsfailed would okay a Rethug Senator making the same request?

[truthisfreedom]

8. they can't afford to have Dems meeting the dead when bush won't do it.

it would make the prezdunt look bad.

[liberal N proud]

9. Is that even legal? Stopping a US Senator from visiting part

of a Military Base?
Congress owns the base for God's sake.

[LizW]

11. Makes perfect sense.

If you look at it from Bushco's point of view. Remember, these people do one thing -- POLITICS. EVERYTHING is looked at first from the viewpoint of how it will play politically.

Bushco doesn't want anyone in America seeing or thinking about the flag-draped coffins. They especially don't want the image of a plane load of coffins in the heads of the very folks who are going to later be voting on more money for more wars.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

12. Not one bit of this surprises me

That anyone finds it surprising - or even shocking - suggests they've not been paying attention these past three years.

The defining characteristic of this administration - and its power - is secrecy.

The second defining characteristic is lying.

[grumpy old fart]

14. I don't believe it said he was actually DENIED permission.....

"I had to get specific permission for that specific event."

Yes, it's a lot of B.S. red tape that shouldn't be there, and yes, if denied, any Senator with any balls would go anyway and get arrested and make a stink of it if the family OK'd it...but he wasn't stopped from going...we need to keep the story str8.

[havocmom]

18. "if denied, any Senator with any balls would go anyway and get arrested"

and that is the problem, most of the Senators are spineless bushco* enablers.

Joe Biden wants to be President and doesn't have the cojones to say to the base CO 'I'm going with these fine Americans who have asked me to accompany them to retrieve what is left of their son's body. Arrest me if you think it is necessary. Step aside if you think it is right for a fallen soldier to be brought home as his mother and father see fit.' Forget it Joe, you sure as hell do NOT deserve a promotion.

edit: typo

[ollie79]

33. right!!!

Oh man could you see it. Headlines that say Bush keeps Senator from visiting dead troops. Bush doesn't even pay respect to the dead troops or family. They cannot realistically say no to Biden for any long period of time.

[grumpy old fart]

34. Why would he wait on f'ing on "permission" from Rummy??????

Is that someone of presidential timber? Or is he blowing up something that was more of a glitch that took 30 minutes to clear up? Something doesn't quite play here.....

[jwirr]

43. Joe Biden ran for president in the

primary years ago and stepped down because he was not willing to put up with the bull. If he wanted that he would have stayed in then.

[pelagius]

56. Biden left the 2000 presidential race...

...because the Dukakis campaign spread news of his plagarism of a speech. I guess you could call that "bull", but it's not as if Biden was too principled to partake in the hurly-burly of Democratic primary politcs.

[Safe as Milk]

49. You are precisely correct

Biden smiles and looks stately and tans well, but he seems to have a problem with sticking his neck out. I have a hunch that Rove has the goods on him, that Rove has him by the nuts and Biden sings when Rove squeezes. It doesn't make any difference what "the goods" are, except for Biden's definition of the goods.

I've watched him over the years, as have a lot of people. He seems to get into a groove, and is in sync with his audience, and it looks like he'll catch fire, and then something happens, and he collapses with some inane policy position that sends his followers into the bathroom, muttering incoherently. It's almost as if he gets a phone call from someone who tells him to back off or he's ruined, and then old faithful Joe opts for the freeway.

[AuntiBush]

16. Welcome to the New World Order Dictatorship!

You know it's bad when Democrats get doors slammed in their faces on the Hill; they can't get a room for a conference; they're handed huge piles of laws with sometimes 45 minutes to read and vote on and so on and so forth... as they're left out of the Democratic processes that run this country and represent more then half this country.

When our Senators have no rights "up there," what's that say about yours and mine. Republican voters better take notice. If they think they'll be with the "in-crowd," their just kidding themselves. None of us seem to equate.

:banghead:

[JRob]

24. Very true, Republicans are merely facilitating their own demise

[AuntiBush]

58. Here's Hoping You're Right - Them Before the Rest of US...

[JRob]

59. I was actually referring to Republican voters, who will actually be

screwed along with the rest of us when the MIC takes over...

[Javaman]

17. What this boils down to: Moron* doesn't want to be out photo opp'd.

If we are allowed to see Senators at soldiers funerals, that means, that moron* will look like the spineless colossal failure that he is.

Moron*=coward in life, country and spirit.

[LynneSin]

19. BTW - those caskets also come in at night

Which is another pathetic move by our government

[Media_Lies_Daily]

27. My question is: What are they hiding?

[AtTheEndOfTheDay]

28. I've read or seen somewhere

that all sorts of contraband was smuggled during Vietnam with returning war dead. hmmm...

[LynneSin]

31. Literally - the dead bodies

tougher to take photographs at night. Feasibly you could get someone in there with a camera and take pictures during the daytime hours, but at night you need either a high-end camera with 1000speed film or a cheapo flash camera in order to sneak picture.

[bobbieinok]

37. remember early in the war when pictures were taken of caskets

being put on planes????.....people doing it viewed it as a service for the families but they were fired

[in_cog_ni_to]

23. Biden should have just gone in anyway. LET THEM ARREST HIM

for trying to go meet a soldiers coffin!!!! HOW WOULD THAT PLAY IN THE HEARTLAND????? Not very well, I'd say. How about ALL the Democrats from the Senate??? What??? Are they going to arrest them all and throw them in the GULAG??? I don't think so. The Democrats need to make a HUGE stand on this. Draw publicity. Make Rummy, Cheney and the idiot look like the asses they are.

[sellitman]

25. You are correct but Biden isn't the one with Balls.

We need Boxer, Conyers or Waxman to do this. Or how about Clark? Wouldn't that be something?

[Safe as Milk]

51. Biden

Is a living metaphor for the soft spot in the Democratic Party. He's always looking for the wiggle room, always positioning himself into the safest possible territory, and always retreating to safety when push comes to shove. He acts as if he's got a fresh skeleton in his closet, and Rove is threatening to pry open the door.

[sellitman]

55. In other words......

Screw Biden and the horse he came in on. I have had it with these types. He is only a hair removed from LIE-berman, who may well be my Senator but not becuase of my vote.

[Ilsa]

54. You're right. It probably didn't even occur to Biden to let

them take him into custody. I don't care if the fascists say it was a PR stunt. It shows exactly where Bushco and Rumsfeld stand on "supporting the troops".

Geez, what kind of message is that to the rest of the world, when our own long-time public leaders can't do this?

[BattyDem]

29. WTF?!?

:wtf:

I don't know what to say. I'm speechless! :wow:

(Let me take a shot at getting my thoughts together...)

A US Senator shows up with the parents of a dead soldier who REQUESTED HIS PRESENCE and he's not allowed to enter without permission?!? I am OUTRAGED!!! They brought their minister, so obviously it had nothing to do with Biden not being a family member - it is being done for the sole purpose of keeping Congress uninformed and that is just BULLSHIT!

Biden, if you want to be President, then show some backbone, integrity and BALLS! Raise hell about this! Don't just casually mention it in an interview so that someone else can do the fighting! :grr:

I agree with the "sellitman" - we need someone like Boxer, Conyers or Waxman to get involved in this (although Conyers has a lot on his plate right now, so he's probably not the right choice). Clark ... or even Max Cleland ... would be a great choice but if I understand Biden correctly, they WOULD be allowed to view the dead with a soldier's family; it's just Senators who need permission. Do I have that right?

:grr: :grr: :grr:

[Amsterdam Hooligan]

30. Lord knows we certainly wouldn't want a repeat of Vietnam

where flag draped caskets were seen nightly open the news. That might raise questions as to what exactly we are doing over there, why and when do we get out.........

[chomskysright]

32. I've passed this to Rep. Jones (R-NC) as he at least has had the decency..

to join with another Repug & 2 Dems to ask for stop to war and he has a 'war memorial' which I saw a picture of today in the NY Times. Per another North Carolinian, he has reportedly sent personal letters of condolence to family members in NC.

This is the LEAST they could fucking do.

[madmark]

35. This is a completely lame excuse

If Bidet has the wherewithal to successfully whore atrocious legislation for MBNA et al he can manage to get on a military base to attend a funeral. Give me a break. And you know, he voted for Bush' vanity grudge war which any thinking person knew was total BS at the time it came up for a vote. And even now, he still doesn't want to get our people out. Bidet is on Bush' time frame which is in perpetuity. Bidet is willing for many more of our guys to die not only for a mistake, but for Bush' personal vanity and grudge. And Bidet is happy to appropriate billions of more dollars for it in process. I do not mean to get technical here, but Bidet is the archetypal "Assclown".

[PATRICK]

40. An obvious question

He's not the ONLY senator or rep who has been requested to attend services has he? Well, what are all the others doing? He does not seem to realize how absurd this all sounds, yet it must be routine. Are we talking about base clearance or something? Security?

Maybe the reporters and the DC crowd simply swallow these shockers in stride but it certainly sounds absolutely outrageous on its face for any sane listener.

[donheld]

38. Totally disgracefull

:grr:

[VegasWolf]

39. The Bush cartel is like a cat burying its turds. nt

[Rex]

42. "this is not like there's no hostility there"

Did he say that on purpose? The double negative cancels out the not and no, so you are left with "this is like there's hostility there.' Is that directed at the Pentagon?

[struggle4progress]

45. Uh, Joe? Don't be so frickin nice about this. Muster some outrage.

Raise your voice. Pound a table. Call the creeps unAmerican.

<edit:> It's just a shitty way for them to treat the surviving families. And it's a grossly disrepectful attitude towards a member of one of the other branches of government.

[Willie Stark]

46. argggghhhh

Did anyone else notice that Biden was apologetic for getting snubbed ?

I didn't see it live, but going from the transcript, Biden was pussy-footing it and Schieffer was the one getting animated.

I like Joe Biden. I like Miller Lite (draft). I like warm showers. I like vanilla ice cream with caramel topping on the top. I like Vienna Beef hot dogs cooked on the grill with spicy mustard.

But G*d Damm!t, Joe !!!!!!!!!! Stop apologizing for the frickin' Repugs. G*d Damm!t the rest of you Democrat "leaders" .... grow some !! your people out here are pissed. If that Republican Congressman from North Carolina can demand W call a withdrawal date from Iraq, dammit, so can we. argggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh If you (and I mean YOU Dem leaders) aren't pissed, you ain't paying attention.

[ms liberty]

47. I saw this and I was outraged...

I like Biden ok, and I've seen him on Cspan when he was really tough on the repukes. I was not thrilled with this interview, however. He did act like he was trying to make it seem like no big deal, but if it was no big deal, why mention it at all? And to echo some earlier comments, I'm really getting tired of the dems folding every time the repukes whine. Dammit Janet, Stand for something!
On another note, since some posters apparently know some Biden history, one of my professors (a christian conservative who likes to call himself a "Jeffersonian")said something about Biden had to drop out when he ran for President because it came out that he'd plagarized a paper in college or something like that. It rings a very faint bell with me, I don't know if it's true or not. Does anyone know anything about it?

[Voltaire99]

50. If Biden wasn't so gung ho about the war, he wouldn't need to visit.

Don't expect me to stir up phony outrage about the management of corpses that Joe's votes and pro-war rhetoric have helped to kill.

Those actions have made Biden a co-author of the Iraq War, and he should be working day and night to end its monumental cruelty instead of wasting our time, and wasting our soldiers' lives.

I'm sick of seeing pro-war Democrats act as if the fault weren't their own, too.

This war is your fault, Biden. You collaborated with Bush. And you're as much to blame.

[Ilsa]

53. I'm posting this on some other forums I visit.

Sometimes it is the detailed, human-interest stuff like this that gets peoples' attention better than policy statements.

[savemefromdumbya]

57. Um, who is running this country the military?

One begins to wonder whether there is some nasty force within our government that calls the shots. Why wouldn't a member of our gov't be allowed in?