WP: Evangelicals Building a Base in Iraq

[Pirate Smile]

Evangelicals Building a Base in Iraq
Newcomers Raise Worry Among Traditional Church Leaders

By Caryle Murphy
Washington Post Staff Writer
Thursday, June 23, 2005; Page A01

BAGHDAD -- With arms outstretched, the congregation at National Evangelical Baptist Church belted out a praise hymn backed up by drums, electric guitar and keyboard. In the corner, slide images of Jesus filled a large screen. A simple white cross of wood adorned the stage, and worshipers sprinkled the pastor's Bible-based sermon with approving shouts of "Ameen!"

National is Iraq's first Baptist congregation and one of at least seven new Christian evangelical churches established in Baghdad in the past two years. Its Sunday afternoon service, in a building behind a house on a quiet street, draws a couple of hundred worshipers who like the lively music and focus on the Bible.

-snip-
The evangelicals' numbers are not large -- perhaps a few thousand -- in the context of Iraq's estimated 800,000 Christians. But they are emerging at a time when the country's traditional churches have lost their privileged Hussein-era status and have experienced massive depletions of their flocks because of decades-long emigration. Now, traditional church leaders see the new evangelical churches filling up, not so much with Muslim converts but with Christians like Tawfik seeking a new kind of worship experience.

"The way the preachers arrived here . . . with soldiers . . . was not a good thing," said Baghdad's Roman Catholic archbishop, Jean Sleiman. "I think they had the intention that they could convert Muslims, though Christians didn't do it here for 2,000 years."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/22/AR2005062202335.html

[Mari333]

1. They will reap what they sow

and it will not be pretty. They asked for it.

[saigon68]

33. They will become astronauts

Soaring through the air like birds, on the blast wave of a 3000 kg bomb.

After the Islamic Resistance takes care of the Quislings and Vichyites first.

[Ian David]

2. We should encourage more of them to go n/t

[earthboundmisfit]

8. Hell, if Iraq's the destination for some of their "mission trips",

I'll donate next time I'm accosted by one of them in front of my grocery store! Bon voyage, Fundies!

[Ian David]

13. Maybe our soldiers can use them to check for landmines and IEDs

Call it a faith-based initiative.

[earthboundmisfit]

16. Well, it does make ya wonder - why don't they just ENLIST???

Why the fuck don't they join the Army if they want to be over there & support the war so goddamn much? They're gonna go over there, get kidnapped & become hostages that our troops have to rescue, or if they don't get kidnapped our troops will have to worry about their safety.

[Ian David]

21. The army DOES have a "Chaplaincy Program" n/t

[leesa]

25. Make sure it's their destination first. Most of them are chickenshits.

[Bleacher Creature]

3. Been there, done that

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

[Lecky]

4. This should go over well...

[Pirate Smile]

5. Yeah, here is more:

"Some Iraqi Christians expressed fear that the evangelicals would undermine Christian-Muslim harmony here, which rests on a long-standing, tacit agreement not to proselytize each other. "There is an informal agreement that says we have nothing to do with your religion and faith," said Yonadam Kanna, one of six Christians elected to Iraq's parliament. "We are brothers but we don't interfere in your religion."

Delly said that "even if a Muslim comes to me and said, 'I want to be Christian,' I would not accept. I would tell him to go back and try to be a good Muslim and God will accept you." Trying to convert Muslims to Christianity, he added, "is not acceptable."'

[VegasWolf]

6. Bible whackers just making new friends. nt

[Oversea Visitor]

12. So true

[maxrandb]

39. Wow! Religious Freedom in Iraq!!

Someone please tell me what that is like. Is that what America used to be like???

[marmar]

7. The Iraqis have suffered enough...

I read an article about the rise of anti-gay evangelicals in Australia.
They're like those brown snakes that get on planes and spread like a plague when the plane lands.

[Bridget Burke]

40. "drums, electric guitar and keyboard" ?

There's a fine Protestant musical tradition--from Bach through Old Time Gospel. But why are they torturing the Iraqis with this dreck?

[brooklynite]

9. I assume that's a nice, white European Jesus?

In the corner, slide images of Jesus filled a large screen.

.



I suppose it would be silly to assume that Middle Eastern Arabs would relate better to a Jesus that looked like he came from the area.

[daleo]

10. Will they get one of the 14 bases?

"Evangelicals Building a Base in Iraq".

[bluestateguy]

11. I'm all for this...if they stay in Iraq and don't come back

n/t

[havocmom]

15. What will happen is they will piss off people and get attacked, then whine

about being persecuted and insist the US military keep their asses safe. Ultimately, this will mean the unnecessary deaths of more of the troops.

If they wanna go to Iraq, tell 'em:

[Triana]

14. The American Taliban and the Islamic Militants...

...birds of a feather.

[LongTomH]

17. Mr. Jihad - meet Mr. Crusade1

Jesus wept! :cry:

[aresef]

18. Yikes

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."- Ann Coulter

That's two out of three, unless you substitute "capture and/or kill" for "kill."

[PartyPooper]

19. "Praise God and pass the ammunition!"

I distinctly recall reading disturbing stories at DU in early 2003 about "evangelical missionaries" being invited to the White House prior to / or just after the invasion of Iraq. These folks were to be on a "mission" within the country Junior had illegally invaded.

I remember, these folks were going to maintain a "low profile" whilst administering "humanitarian aid" to the Iraqis. Yeah, right!

:eyes:

[geek tragedy]

20. Idiots idiots idiots. It's not like Iraq hasn't been exposed to

Christianity for the past 1500 years or anything.

[Igel]

22. The Roman Catholic archbishop's quite confused.

"The way the preachers arrived here . . . with soldiers . . . was not a good thing," said Baghdad's Roman Catholic archbishop, Jean Sleiman. "I think they had the intention that they could convert Muslims, though Christians didn't do it here for 2,000 years."

But Christians did do it there ... for centuries. The area had a very large Christian population when the Muslims first got there, partly with the intention of converting Christians.

So, is it stupidity, or a bit of historical revisionism?

[kodi]

31. no, more likely an inability to read accurately the remark the bishop made

he was referring to the proselytizing by Christians towards Muslims. in fact, that is exactly what he said with:

"....they had the intention that they could convert Muslims, though Christians didn't do it here for 2,000 years."

the bishop may have added unnecessarily 600 or so years, but his thrust was accurate. Christians have not been converting Muslims in that region for nearly 1,400 years, if ever.

he said nothing about whether or not the region was Christian prior to the rise of Islam in the 7th century, and even before Islam swept thru Mesopotamia in the middle of the 7th century the Sassasian dynasties were Zoroastrian and only marginally tolerated Christians (then mostly urban dwellers) and Christianity was considered a suspected threat since it was the state religion of their Byzantine enemies.

there is scant historical evidence that Christians have proselyized Muslims in Mesopotamia, until the Americans invaded Iraq.

[Igel]

42. Ah, pronouns and their resolution.

"But Christians did do it there ... for centuries. The area had a very large Christian population when the Muslims first got there, partly with the intention of converting Christians."

By which I precisely meant that for centuries ... some 500 or so ... Xians engaged in proselytizing. "It" referred to the activity as such, not including the object of the verb.

Usually Xians did not proselytize after the Muslims conquerored. It usually meant a death sentence for both proselytizer and proselytizee.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. A red cross on a white background would create

Feng Shui


feng shui ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fng shw)
n.
The Chinese art or practice of positioning objects, especially graves, buildings, and furniture, based on a belief in patterns of yin and yang and the flow of chi that have positive and negative effects.

[Robbien]

24. Wonder how many of our tax dollars were used for this adventure

What a waste.

[leesa]

26. I'm sure many were and this needs to be investigated.

[Miss Chybil]

27. Conversions are always easier at the end of a gun.

These people have balls of steel. They call it faith. I call it stupid. I guess Baptists are used to the idea of having their heads on a platter. Aaaaaa-aaa-men! Aaaaaaa-aaa-men. A-a-men. Amen. Amen. Everybody now! Aaaaaa-aaa-men! Aaaaaaa-aaa-men. A-a-men. Amen.

[AmandaRuth]

28. Aren't Evangelicals the ones that believe in the Rapture

and don't they have to have a church or base or whatever established in Iraq to hasten said Rapture?

[NIGHT TRIPPER]

29. easy targets for violence in this religious war-they'll get wiped out

Then U.S. troops can retaliate and kill thousands of Muslims like in Fallujah.
There wasn't even a bug left alive in Fallujah -
--nerve gas, nalpam, (proven to have been used)
And all because Mercenaries got ambushed and dragged through the streets.

Guess we taught them a lesson !
They'll now behave like a good little conquered country should!

All Mooslams will now either die or convert to Kristchianity!

Praise Jay-zus!

[louis-t]

44. Did anyone else notice?

Rumsfeld said while denying we are losing in Iraq: "Fallujah is now safe from the insurgents." From what I hear, Fallujah is a moonscape.

[rexcat]

30. The USAF must be involved!

[Endangered Specie]

32. the same people that condemned rock music...

are now using its insurments.

ironic isnt it?

[IndianaGreen]

34. Where is Josef Stalin when we really need him?

Stalin never had a problem with religious proselytizers, and neither should we when the day comes to settle scores with the Religious Right in this country.

[TrogL]

35. Do they WANT to be martyrs

Actually, they probably do. Same with the guy driving the car bomb that blows the place up.

Fundamentalism is the number one problem in the world at the moment.

[TomClash]

36. It almost makes me want to shout . . .

Allah Akbar!

But not quite. :evilgrin:

[Ganja Ninja]

37. Great Idea!

Send as many Evangelicals as we can. I just can't see a downside to this story. I don't expect them to have much success but I still think it's worth the cost of a one way plane ticket to send an Evangelical to Iraq.

[leesa]

38. I think the Iraqi people will be able to take care of this little invasion

[noonwitch]

41. Maybe if they're in Iraq, they'll leave the rest of us alone?

I know, that's just not possible with these people. They feel the need to be in our faces with their religion, since we are persecuting them so badly by expecting their children to pray silently in school and by not making God's rules (as interpreted by them) the law of the land.

[KamaAina]

43. Well, we've killed (or captured) (almost) all their leaders,

so it's time to convert them to Christianity. :sarcasm:

After all, Ann Coulter wouldn't have said it if it weren't true, right? :eyes: