Vatican: condoms don't stop Aids

[rjbcar27]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/aids/story/0,7369,1059068,00.html

The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which the HIV virus can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to the HIV virus.

A senior Vatican spokesman backs the claims about permeable condoms, despite assurances by the World Health Organisation that they are untrue.

<snip>

:eyes: It really does just blow me away.

[rooboy]

1. If telling lies for America works..

I guess they figure that telling lies for Jesus works too.

[blackcat77]

2. A virus is much smaller than a sperm...

...and condoms are only 80% effective at preventing pregnancy.

I sure wouldn't want to bet MY life on a condom...

[arcos]

5. that's because people don't know how to use them correctly...

not because they have "tiny holes" that allow the virus, much less the sperm, to go through.

on edit: Plus, you have your facts wrong.

"With typical use, 14 percent of women relying only on the male condom, and 21 percent relying only on the female condom, will experience unintended pregnancy within one year. With perfect use (meaning couples make no errors in the way they use the condoms and also use condoms consistently at every act of sexual intercourse), only five percent of women relying on the male condom, and three percent on the female condom, will experience unintended pregnancy within one year."

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/publications/factsheet/fscondom.htm

[Dookus]

6. but that's...

not because sperm are "leaking through" the condom.

The main cause of failure with condoms is improper use or tearing/splitting.

Condoms are the BEST tool for preventing the spread of HIV among people who are going to have sex whether the church approves of it or not.

[wuushew]

7. Please back up your claims with facts

I believe condoms are upwards of 98% effective in preventing pregnancy.


• Condoms are 98 percent effective in preventing pregnancywhen used correctly3—and up to 99.9 percent effectivein reducing the risk of STD transmission when com-bined with spermicide

http://www.hawaii.edu/hivandaids/The%20Truth%20About%20Latex%20Condoms.pdf

[Redbear]

21. CDC says latest studies indicate spermicide does not fight AIDS.

In fact, if used to extremes (as observed in a study of sex workers)spermicides can actual cause skin irritations and increase HIV risk.

So CDC recommends public health facilities distribute condoms without spermicide.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5118a1.htm

[Djinn]

9. "effectiveness" percentages also include the idiots

who rip open condom packets with their teeth, use them after the expiry date, or people play around a bit BEFORE putting them on and you CAN get pregnant via (sorry for the indelicate wording anyone whos eating) pre-ejaculatory fluid.

they also include people who use NO lube and therefore tear the rubber and those who don't squeeze the tip to remove the excess air therefore putting pressure on the rubber.

It probably is STATISCALLY possible to catch HIV whilst properly using condoms but until someone can find a way to stop everyone rooting I'd like it if the vatican WASN'T endangering peoples lives like this.

Given an option of not ever having sex again or taking a 0.0000001% of picking up a virus most folks, unfortunately for the pope and his cohorts, will take their chances

[varun]

46. do u have any reliable sources

...to back up that statement?

[arcos]

3. it blows me away too...

and yet, the Pope is the frontrunner for the Nobel Peace Prize. :eyes:

[Dookus]

4. Unconscionable....

totally, ridiculously unconscionable.

It's bad enough they refuse to let people have only as many children as they can care for, now they're going to let them DIE over this lie.

[FlemingsGhost]

8. When are these fools going to join us in the 21st Century?

The Catholic Church has just about rendered itself completely useless.

[arcos]

10. they'll join the 21st century later...

they won't JOIN US at the 21st century though, since we will be in the 24th century by then.

[Spentastic]

11. Well since we're not allowed to make generalisations

This particular Catholic is an idiot. If other Catholics feel this way they are also idiots. Catholics that don't object to this stance are complicit in the idiocy.

I wonder if they could be tried as accessories?

[PennyLane]

12. As Far As Viruses Go..........

.......I've read that the HIV is too big to pass through the
miniscule pores in latex. Otherwise, our entire population would be
dead or dying from AIDS by now!!! The Catholic Church is probably
basing this on a vision made by the poor, pitiful pontiff. Bless his
old, ailing ticker!

[0rganism]

13. So let me get this straight...

Some people who
1) aren't supposed to have sex
2) aren't supposed to use birth control if they do have sex
3) live in a teensy backward reservation in the middle of modern Italy
are now pretending to be condom experts?

Fascinating. I hope no one takes them seriously.

[WoodrowFan]

22. The Old Joke that Earl Butz got fired for?

Wasn't it Ford's Secretary of Agriculture or some such who got fired for joking "if they don't play the game; they don't make the rules." (he said it in a fake "Italian" accent)

[truthisfreedom]

14. the vatican obviously wants people in third world countries to die horribl

e deaths. the vatican is using junk science, like bush, to promote and further death in undeveloped nations. we are living in a time of horror.

[Robin Hood]

15. It appears that they also don't stop stupidity.

Jeezus, It's taken so long to get people to use them and now these morons come along and offer people a death sentence. I say don't do religion, there's too many holes in it and may lead to stupidity, moral infections and ultimately fanatical death.

[LiberalVoice]

16. Actually

they're probably putting a spin on the whole thing. Latex condoms(regardless of what the pro-pedophile pope says) has more then a 99.9% chance at stopping aids when used correctly. However. Sheep skin condoms do not prevent the AIDs virus from spreading.

[Robin Hood]

17. Third world countries can afford sheep skin condoms?

[truthisfreedom]

18. i suppose that really depends on how many sheep they have. THE VATICAN

HAS A RESPONSIBILITY TO PROTECT LIFE. WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?

[ze_dscherman]

19. It's not only the Vatican

The U.S. has just recently stopped the funding of an anti-Aids programme promoting the use of condoms that was targeted at high-risk groups in Brazil.

Read: http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=125-09152003

BTW, Italy, home of the pope, is the country with the least growing population in Europe - and not because Italians have suddenly all turned to celibacy.

[emad]

20. "Would Jesus use a condom??????"...

...and is this aids advice another one of those papal infallibility numbers like "the rhythm method works!" ????

[MaineDem]

23. How does condom-use fall into the "faith and morals" clause?

I'll go to a doctor for my medical advice, thank you very much.

I grew up being taught that the Pope/Vatican was infalliable on matters of faith and morals. Things like this statement honestly make me question those dotty old men wearing dresses in Rome.

This is a deadly statement for them to make!

[R Hickey]

24. I've been to the Vatican, and seen their beautiful marble cathedrals...

...and let me tell you...spreading ignorance and superstition pays. From what I've seen, the cult of Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and Virgin Mary, historically has been quite lucrative. Come, let us all worship the holy hymen, and all that mumbo-jumbo, and be sure to drop a gold coin in the donation box.

We are a race of gullible, bullshitting monkeys, who's ability to spin lies has deluded us into causing our very own self destruction, right before our very eyes.

Our make-believe world of capitalism and holy fantasy, has completely blinded us, when the truth is obvious to all who care to see it. Trust me, we will self destruct when our oxigen runs out. Our doom will be sealed in ten or twenty years, when capitalism harvests the last rain-forests and kills the ocean's kelp.

After our planet stops generating oxigen, the earth will go on, but animals, including the human race, won't. The filthy rich, with perhaps their pets and servants, may survive underground, maintaining luxurous bunkers in deep holes, for a generation or two.

We humans arn't smart enough to build an Ark, because if we were, then we wouldn't have collectively destroyed our environment in the first place. The earth is our Ark and it is on fire and sinking.

The last humans will die with a wimper, but perhaps we will go out with a bang, thanks to recent breakthroughs in Bush's bunker-busting technology.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

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[Robb]

28. Oh, please.

R Hickey had nothing remotely hateful in his rant. Nothing particularly ignorant, either. S/he's just not a fan of organized religion. And who can blame him/her?

THE number 1 poster-boy for organized religion on the planet has just backed a bunch of self-serving hokum that is going to cause untold thousands, tens of thousands of deaths.

I think this gives R Hickey a great deal of wiggle room, frankly.

[Muddleoftheroad]

41. You must be kidding

You found nothing offensive in, "I've been to the Vatican, and seen their beautiful marble cathedrals... ...and let me tell you...spreading ignorance and superstition pays. From what I've seen, the cult of Jesus, the Holy Ghost, and Virgin Mary, historically has been quite lucrative. Come, let us all worship the holy hymen, and all that mumbo-jumbo, and be sure to drop a gold coin in the donation box."

[SemperEadem]

49. Thank God for Martin Luther

there's nothing offensive in what R. Hickey said. What he said is true about the catholic church... heck, the 16th century is enough to tell you that God himself was sick of the catholic church twisting the truth...

Indulgences, indeed! Since when does forking over your life savings to the church buy your way into heaven or "purgatory", which doesn't even exist?

The vatican wants condom distribution to be banned because the more people who die from aids, the less there are to object to the church stealing their land out from under them. It's as simple as that.

[joycep]

50. At the risk of getting bombed myself

I really did not see anything offensive about it.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[qwertyMike]

35. Religious?

What has the Pope's ranting got to do with being religious?
Being religious has nothing to do with sex (or no sex).
SEX is one of God's greatest gifts. There's no mystery. It's fuckin' great. Thanks God.

[qwertyMike]

37. I'm religiious

And I am single. I love sex. I love sex with many partners. It opens the door to new kinds of intimacies. I use condoms. Did I say I love sex? Did I say I'm religious?

[bushisanidiot]

38. Outstanding Post!

I may have to save it.

[DarkPhenyx]

25. Condoms don't stop AIDS.

That isn't a lie. As they are not 100% effective it's hard to say they "stop" AIDS. They are, however, highly effective at limiting your risk level. That alone makes their continued use a preferable alternative to not using them at all.

Some condoms are also permeable. Latex condoms, unless they have a flaw in them somewhere, are impermeable though.

[Skittles]

29. come on

you know g.d. well it is DESPICABLE for the Pope to try to discourage the use of condoms. DESPICABLE.

[truthisfreedom]

43. "don't use condoms" v.s. "condoms are not 100% reliable"... religion v.s.

science.

if condoms were regularly used in areas where AIDS is spreading the worst, the situation would be far less tragic. obviously the vatican wants more tragedy.

[stickdog]

26. Condoms don't stop AIDS. AIDS stops AIDS.

[RetroLounge]

31. Fu*k you Pope.

Like you know anything about condoms.

Get your priests to stop assaulting altar boys, then maybe we'll talk.

Sinead was right!

[Pavlovs DiOgie]

32. Are all religions this stupid?

Is it unheard of for religions to face facts regarding anything that might contradict their beliefs? How can they spout off about wanting to ease suffering and all that but not face facts about how to stop it. Friggin' stupid.

[iam]

33. NEVER

vote for a christian running for President. He's got his finger on the button that will vindicate his religion and bring Jesus back to life.
Never.

[Muddleoftheroad]

42. Nice open-minded attitude

And you wonder why we lose elections...

[joycep]

51. I think I understand your anger about religion or at least Christianity

But all Christians do not believe like that. There are some who are horrified about what is going on now.

[qwertyMike]

34. Translation

SEX IS BAAAAAD. SEX IS VERY VERY BAD. SEX IS DIRTY. SEX IS EVIL.

Except with young boys.

[bushisanidiot]

36. The Vatican Can Go Screw Themselves. :)

They're basically saying that no one should have sex since condoms aren't "safe" and you could get aids if you don't use one.. so, just don't have sex. Abstain! Abstain! Abstain! Sayeth the Lardeth.

[Snellius]

39. So what do we use? Saran Wrap?

And maybe Trojans will keep our sandwiches 50% fresher.

[noonwitch]

40. Nothing but abstinence or masterbation is 100% reliable

Condoms, if used properly, do lower the risk and are over 90% effective. The Vatican is wrong, because instead of specifically discussing the pros and cons, they are propagandizing the issue.

[Caution]

44. There is no excuse for this

The Vatican has just contributed to the slow deaths of millions of people with this idiocy.

[WhereIsMyFreedom]

45. I think they meant

Vatican condoms don't stop AIDS. And we all know that Vatican condoms are religious abstinence condoms. Clearly, the Pope is saying that religion has so many holes in it that it can't stop AIDS. I think this is really a plea for help by the Pope to the scientific community.

Well, that's my spin anyways.

[MrPrax]

47. I figured the Catholic Church

had learned it lesson already...especially when the US bishops stumbled on one little dilemma with the Church's anti-condom stance.

If Catholics are the ONLY ones not using condoms, then Catholics will be the ONE'S most likely to get sick and die!! And as such many many less Catholics--carry on
Good to see the impeccable logic of the Papacy is back

[Liberator_Rev]

52. The Vatican DOESN'T limit its dictates to Catholics!

If, MrPrax, the Vatican DID limit its dictates to Catholics, and only Catholics had to suffer the consequences of their accident of birth and/or choice, you would be right.

But the fact is that the Vatican DOESN'T. It and it's agents around the world are constantly trying to get its views enshrined into the laws and regulations of countries and the United Nations so that it can control the lives of EVERYBODY. (as when they killed equal rights for gays here in Conn. this year, which I was fighting for in part because one of my ten children is a Lesbian in a very healthy relationship.)

And YET it didn't have the guts to confront Hitler when he was alive, and proved that it didn't have any moral qualms about the NAZI's after the war was OVER, when it became one of the principal instruments for NAZI and USTACHI War Criminals to escape prosecution ... for the right price, i.e. a share in the wealth looted from the victims of NAZI attrocities. See http://www.LiberalsLikeChrist.Org/RCscandal .

[muriel_volestrangler]

54. there is cold-hearted logic to the Vatican stance

With no condom, or other contraceptive, use, they get lots of new Catholics born to their existing followers. The more they push the message of 'abstain until you're married by us', the more the children are pushed into obeying the church. The ones that don't are then (a) examples to show others what the wages of sin are (b) people in need of comfort on how much better the afterlife will be than this one.

Like any business, the Vatican is interested in growing its turnover.

[DrWeird]

48. You'd think by now

that the Vatican would try and leave the whole nazi thing in the past.

[Liberator_Rev]

53. They are too powerful to learn anything.

Power corrupts, and the kind of power they have corrupts absolutely.

Having trillions of dollars at their disposal and a billion members worldwide enables them to intimidate and/or sweet talk even the most secular and liberal of organizations, except for rare occasions when they blunder so badly that it's totally impossible for their friends to cover for them, as in the case of hundreds, if not thousands of pedophiles all being caught with their pants down AT THE SAME TIME.

Try publicizing their crimes WITHOUT the help of lawyers and the media, as I do, and see what happens to you!!!