Dads Have Postpartum Depression, Too

[HuckleB]

Dads Have Postpartum Depression, Too

http://my.webmd.com/content/article/107/108672.htm

"Postpartum depression doesn't just happen to women.

Fathers, too, can be depressed in the weeks following the birth of a child. And that depression can mean trouble for the child, report Paul Ramchandani, MD, consultant in child and adolescent psychiatry at the University of Oxford, U.K., and colleagues.

"We found a doubling of risk of behavioral problems in children of fathers who had been depressed eight weeks after the birth," Ramchandani tells WebMD. "The thing that is striking is there is the same effect for fathers as has been established for mothers."

The researchers analyzed data collected as part of the Avon Longitudinal Study of Parents and Children. The study, based on questionnaires and psychological tests, included 8,431 fathers, 11,833 mothers, and 10,024 children. Data were collected eight weeks after the birth of a child, 21 months after the birth, and when the child was 3 years old.

..."


Also, here's a link to the story from the BBC:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4122346.stm




Let me guess. Tom Cruise will be advertsing his Scientology brand vitamins again soon.

[Spinzonner]

1. Sure they're not just horny ?

[HuckleB]

2. Pretty sure. That may be how they were diagnosed, in fact.

:hi:

This may explain much of the behavior of Dubious and his minions. I mean, clearly this crew had problems in adolescence, and they all remained there developmentally, so it would make sense.

[pacifictiger]

3. I find the title of the headline

totally offensive.
While I understand that new father's may be overwhelmed by a sense of responsibilty that could lead to depression, to link that to the huge hormonal change that postpartum women must go through, is an absolute insult to women.

[sybylla]

4. I don't believe all PPD is caused by hormones - and I'm not insulted

I mean, really, the inability to get a full nights sleep for even a week will depress anyone (think Maslow's Ladder). And it did me, especially after 8 weeks. I wouldn't compare what I experienced to the kind of deep, clinical depression experienced by women like Brooke Shields who recently published a book about her experiences.

The unfortunate thing is, all depression that happens "post-partum" is classified the same and I've yet to see a professional differentiate between that caused by hormonal imbalance and that caused by the severe lifestyle changes a newborn brings to the table. PPD seems to be one of the few hold-overs from the "dark ages" of male-dominated gynecology when Drs. rarely took the time to study anything and 90% of the diagnoses were "it's all in your head" or "don't worry about it, it will go away."

[Megahurtz]

12. Yes it IS hormones for some women. n/t

[Kraklen]

21. It's a number of factors, including psychology.

I was reading about this for a psych class, turns out that postpartum depression is more common for mothers of female children. The reason being the mother became subconsciously jealous that their spouse was giving more attention to a new female. I wonder if the same sort of thing applies to male postpartum depression.

[BrendaStarr]

23. Oh for Pete's sake

I cant' believe that is real science.

Women jealous of their female babies. LOL

[gkhouston]

24. ever consider that women might be dumping different levels

of different kinds of hormones depending on the sex of the child?

on edit: I'm trying to imagine having had enough sleep to have wanted to devote any time to being jealous as a new mom. Stupid, stupid "research".

[BrendaStarr]

27. Yes, that is a good point

and I'm not doubting that a woman can have different levels of PPD after a female child than a male.

I was doubting that a woman would be jealous of the attention a female baby would be getting from her husband more than over a male baby's attention.

[gkhouston]

28. agreed. That seems pretty specious to me.

Still, I'm glad someone is paying some attention to the stresses that new fathers experience, too. I wish prospective parents were more aware of the incredible stresses that even a much-desired child can place on your life. For some, it might cause to them to reconsider parenthood. For others, they might be better prepared for the challenge. Sometimes it seems like people have kids not realizing that they aren't baby-dolls you can put away in the closet when you're tired of playing with them.

[Kraklen]

29. Hey, it's not my theory.

But irrational jealous due to irregular hormones and stress is hardly out of the question.

[Megahurtz]

32. Yeah, I call bullshit.

"Women jealous of their female babies"
Where did this come from? A Freudian Quackery book?:rofl:

Gotta be Sigmund Freud!!! Correct me if I'm wrong!:rofl:

[sybylla]

31. I get the feeling you didn't even read my post.

I said I don't believe ALL PPD is hormonal. Of course it is for some women and I didn't say it NEVER was.

If you go to your OB/GYN after you have a baby and you confess to not feeling your usual yourself, they call it PPD. They call anything not "normal" PPD. Why? Perhaps they're lazy. Perhaps there just isn't a better way to tell if you are suffering serious hormonal-based depression or just plain exhausted from the rigors of the new lifestyle. And of course new parents can't tell either because they've never before gone without eight straight hours sleep for more than a day or two.

Cripes sake!

[Megahurtz]

35. I guess I worded it wrong.

I think that true PPD is almost always involving hormones.
But it seems like the OB/GYN's you are referring to are probably insensitive.
Feeling a little off is not a PPD diagnosis for everyone.

[HuckleB]

41. "Feeling a little off"?

Where do you get that from? Talk about insensitive.

Sheesh.

[Megahurtz]

47. Um, I got it from her post# 31

when she said that:

"If you go to your OB/GYN after you have a baby and you confess to not feeling your usual self".

:shrug:

That sounds like "feeling a little off" to me.

I have no idea why you were offended by that.:shrug:

[HuckleB]

50. In #15, you wrote:

"Some fathers may be somewhat depressed after the birth of a child," and then I read that post (granted out of context with the post it replied to), and my impression was that you felt "father's depression" = "feeling a little off." I may have spoken a bit too quickly, and I apologize. Still, I don't understand why you wrote what you did in post #15.

[Megahurtz]

54. Okay, I should have wrote,

"and some fathers can become very depressed." I can't deny that.

I apologize not to verbalize and give credit where credit is due.

But it's still not "Postpartum depression", that's all.

[pacifictiger]

66. Sorry sybylla, I disagree

with you here - I was an ob nurse.
Hormonal intensity does vary woman to woman - I witnessed a friend go into a severe psychotic episode after her baby was born. But it is also the physical recovery from the huge effort the woman has expended with the labor process, in addition to blood loss. And then you have the breast feeding issue continually depleting nutrients from the mother unless she is eating in a healthy manner. Some recover earlier because they are fitter than others.
The disturbed sleep factor is just the icing on the cake for the woman.
Men are whining because they get a few nights with interrupted sleep and don't get as much attention.

[HuckleB]

67. Men are whining?

Uh, did you even read the article about the study? This isn't about anyone whining. This is about people developing major depression at specific time, and noting the effects that this depression has on others.

Sheesh.

[HuckleB]

6. Considering...

the very real "sympathy" fatigue, nausea etc... known to male partners most connected to the mothers-to-be, I don't think there's any reason to take offense. This is information that needs to be spread to fathers and mothers everywhere, as a depressed father is going to be less supportive and connected to the mother and to the child, with possibly extreme detrimental effects for both.

IMHO, this is no time to play "it's worse for me than it is for you."

Salud.

[HuckleB]

5. Helping Children Understand and Cope with Parental Depression

http://www.harbor.org/poc/view_doc.php?id=3212&type=doc&show=5&clnt=1

[Kber]

7. One the one hand, as a mother of a 10 week old

I'd love to show this article to my husband who is exhibiting some of the classic signs of depression.

OTOH, being there for his family is very important to him and I'm afraid that the idea that he could be "blighting" his kids would be so scary and, well, depressing, to him, that he'd retreat further.

Gotta do more research on how to approach it I guess.

KB

[CitySky]

8. congrats on the new addition to your family

:)

also, maybe if you do share the article w/your DH you can do so in the context of letting him know he is doing a great job, that it's clear to you how much he loves you and the kids, etc. - sharing the article b/c it helped YOU realize that this time can be hard on dads as well as moms... to open a discussion rather than render a "verdict" or diagnosis.

Of course, doing more reseach/asking around sounds smart too. (My only "qualification" for giving this advice is having a mood disorder myself, and living with people with mood disorders - a little compassion goes far in our house!) You know your DH best, and I'm sure you will choose the best course for your family. Good luck to you and your family, and again congratulations!

[HuckleB]

16. It is difficult.

There are some wonderful books on the subject, but I have them listed at home, so I can't share right now. You could search Amazon for Depression and "Loved One" "Partner" "Spouse," etc...

Just share concern, and let him know you aren't diagnosing him, as that's not something a partner can do subjectively, even if one is a psychiatric professional.

Best of luck, and congratulations!

[LiberalFighter]

22. I would suggest talking to your husband about what he is feeling

Maybe it just needs a change in what is being done so chores are easier. Or explaining what is happening so he better understands. Maybe he has questions and isn't sure if he should ask them.

[davsand]

9. Interrupted sleep. a hormonal partner and a bunch of new responsibilities.

I'd say that might be enough of a mental and physical burden to bring ANYONE down, let alone a man who has been taught that he MUST succeed in everything he does. This just makes sense to me.

New parenthood is majorly overwhelming to anybody, but we women are always depicted as being a bit nuts post partum. Dads, on the other hand, are supposed to just suck it up and keep on going.

How would YOU feel about being awakened every couple of hours at night, dealing with this new responsibility AND dealing with a woman who is going thru some pretty major hormonal shifts--and HAS been for the last year? It would freak me out, I can't imagine it wouldn't freak out MOST people no matter how happy they were about the new baby.

I think Dads (and by extension families) might benefit from a bit more support than what they get right now.


Laura

[Megahurtz]

10. Oh Yeah Right.

I'm sure that Dad's hormones are just going crazy after the baby was born. :eyes:

[HuckleB]

13. Your point?

Just because one of the myriad of suspected etiologies for maternal postnatal depression doesn't affect fathers, I hardly think we should ignore an issue that can have a negative affect on said fathers, AND the mothers and children they care about.

[Megahurtz]

15. Some fathers may be somewhat depressed after the birth of a child,

for various reasons, but it doesn't mean that it's Postpartum Depression.

[HuckleB]

17. Actually...

since environmental stress can kick in depression in those genetically susceptible to depression, regardless of gender, and since the depression in question kicks in with the stress of a new child (i.e. postpartum), and since the effects take a toll on the child (and probably the mother), I don't find that even a technical issue, much less something worth arguing about.

[Megahurtz]

18. No arguing here,

But you're being too techinical about this issue.:)

Environmental stress is simply not the same as physiological makeup.

Women and men are not physically the same when it comes to the birth of a child.
They are not physically the same, period.
The intense stress that it puts on a woman's body,
and the intense stress of the woman's body going back to it's normal state after the birth
can cause extreme hormonal and physical changes.
And add getting NO SLEEP to that!!!

It's very hard on a woman's body.

The Government has finally rightfully declared a woman's physical state during pregnancy
a disability!

Try feeling your hipbones literally spread apart while you spit out a bowling ball!
Then your body produces milk to sustain the child,
which takes an extreme amount of nutrients and calories,
and if you don't eat right and get enough of those, your mood plummets.

A father may go through stress, but it's not the same,
and it cannot possibly be the same because men and women are both physically different.

And sorry, because of this a woman goes through way more
during and after the birth of a child than a man does!

I'm not meaning to not give credit where credit is due,
yes, a father may get depressed after the birth of a child because
he may feel more pressure from the outside.

And so does the mother also feel pressure from the outside,
which means along with the physical stress
the mother has at least double the stress that the father has!!!

But please also give credit where credit is due!

Physically giving birth to a child is damn hard work
and hard on the body which may result in postpartum depression for a mother!!!

Please be more sensitive towards mothers on this issue!:)

[davsand]

19. New parents have it tough--ALL of them.

Lack of sleep, sore nipples, fear, angst, shifting hormones--and it all falls on the heels of almost a year of pregnancy. I am not EVEN gonna go into the nutritional issues present there...

Hell yeah--we women get hit hard when we have babies!

I didn't feel like this marginalized women's issues at all. What I took it to mean was that the partners have issues to deal with as well, and those issues can impact on the entire family. I think it illustrates that our society needs to be more supportive of all parents, period.

Peace to you.


Laura

[sybylla]

33. Your operating on a chemical definition for PPD

when in reality OB/GYN's classify any change in mood following the birth of a baby PPD. They don't take blood tests, they don't do any special exam. They don't even ask you to answer a series of questions. They just log it in your medical records as PPD and classify it as mild to serious. I've been there. Had two kids of my own and watched this happen with many more of my friends and relatives.

You seem to be much more hardline about the definition than even the doctors.

If the "study" didn't use a hardline definition and doctors don't use a hardline definition, then why are you so insistent to do so?

[Megahurtz]

37. It IS a "hardline" definition

as far giving the diagnosis to a mother.

I'm sorry, I just don't think it's possible for a man to get PPD because he cannot physically bear a child.

A father may certainly suffer from depression, but it's not PPD.

If you don't believe me, ask your own OB/GYN's yourself, what they think.:)

[HuckleB]

40. Post-partum depression: Definition from Medline Plus

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007215.htm

More from medscape:
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/433013

Postpartum Depression (much more thorough coverage):
http://www.obgyn.net/femalepatient/default.asp?page=leopold

[Megahurtz]

51. Okay, did you read this?

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/007215.htm#Causes,%20incidence,%20and%20risk%20factors

It says during pregnancy. Men cannot get pregnant.

All of these links talk about Postpartum Depression in women.

NOWHERE in these definitions does it list Postpartum Depression in a man.

So I don't understand, what's your point?:shrug:

[HuckleB]

52. The point:

You've stated that PPD is mostly hormonal, or something along those lines. However, the etiology for women remains very theoretical, with apparent links to many possible causes, making most people think the etiology is multifaceted, as it probably is in "general" major depression, though, yes, it appears that, in some cases, hormonal issues may play a role, perhaps a large role even.

Further, postpartum means "Of or occurring in the period shortly after childbirth." It does simply relate to the woman after childbirth. It is a general term that can be applied to many things that occur after childbirth. Thus, the headline is perfectly suitable to the situation.

[Megahurtz]

55. I'm sorry, I just feel

that childbirth can sometimes have devastating physical effects on the human body,
therefore devastating physical = devastating effects emotionally/mentally.

Because of this I just don't agree that a man can go through the same type of depression,
no matter what the M.D.'s or "researchers" say.
You know, we just don't have the same "plumbing".
Arguing equality isn't going to change our "plumbing"!

However, just because we don't agree does not mean that I don't respect your opinion.

[HuckleB]

59. The etiology may be different.

Clearly, far more women are affected. However, that does not mean that there is necessarily a difference in severity for those affected, including their partners and children.

This study has nothing to do with "arguing equality." It simply points out that health care providers and parents should be aware that depression in the period after the birth of a child (postpartum) affects far more men than during other periods of life, making the period a risk factor that must be considered by parents, and by health care providers who want to provide optimal care.

[Megahurtz]

62. Yes, depression in men during this crucial time should be regarded as well

and just to clarify, when I made my initial reponse to this thread
I was directing my sarcasm at the article itself,
not personally at you for posting the article.

No hard feelings, I hope:hi:

[HuckleB]

65. No, nothing personal.

Salud.

:)

[HuckleB]

34. I'm aware of all that.

I am a pediatric and psychiatric nurse practitioner.

The point is that the stress faced by mothers does not diminish the seriousness of the effects of depression triggered in a small percentage of men. This is not about who has it harder. It's about knowledge, and about working to help parents help themselves so they can parent their children to the best of their ability, and that includes fathers.

I have not been insensitive in any way on this issue. In fact, if any insensitivity has occurred on this thread, it has been toward fathers who suffer from this.

[Megahurtz]

44. I certainly do not trying to diminish the fact that fathers

can suffer from depression as the result of their baby's birth, sometimes even severe depression.

It just seemed like the title of the article was misleading.

Postpartum depression is an actual diagnosis given to mothers after experiencing childbirth.
Because of differing physiology, hormones, etc. I just don't think that it's the same diagnosis for a man.

I'm not insensitive to fathers who suffer from depression after the birth of a child.
I have seen some men change drastically because of a new child, sometimes not for the better.
They can sometimes "go off the deep end".
I'm sure that these types of situations probably do involve depression for the father.

I agree that parents should work together to help themselves in a situation like this so that they can help their children.

[HuckleB]

46. Since all we have is theory in regard to etiology,

I don't see any reason for making a big deal about a little headline, if that really is all you're doing.

[Megahurtz]

56. I guess I'm just making a big deal out of the fact that

men do not go through the same physical and emotional feelings as women do in regards to childbirth, because the woman carries the child which can be an extra added stress in itself.

[HuckleB]

57. What does that have to do with this study?

:shrug:

[Megahurtz]

60. Because the title of the study implies that

men are equal to women in getting Postpartum Depression,
when only one of us has the physical stressors of childbirth.

Men and women are not equal in this way.

[HuckleB]

61. If you say so...

The headline, which is just a headline and nothing more, actually just notes that men also get depression during the period following the birth of a child (postpartum). It says nothing about severity, rate of illness or etiology, so I see no such implication.

[Joj Bush]

26. And that's not all

Besides the stress and the depression it can trigger, there are also more direct hormonal changes in males corresponding to his partner giving birth. The first is a reduction in testosterone levels as his partner becomes pregnant. There's probably many other hormonal changes yet undiscovered, but we can assume the haughty and sarcastic responders didn't know of even the first one or even read the article. I guess they know much more science than the researchers did.

[Megahurtz]

30. I'm assuming that

you are referring to me as one of the "haughty and sarcastic responders" are you not?

Frankly, I don't think "researchers" always know what they say that they do
just because they have "credentials".

The only way they can truely know is if they have gone through a situation themselves
such as physically bearing a child.
The M.D. that wrote this article is a man, so he could not possibly know what that's like!

I am a woman and I have gone through physically bearing a child just like other women that have,
and I have my own personal experience so I do know what it feels like, do you???

Maybe I don't "know more science" like you sarcastically responded,
but I do know more about bearing a child because I have physically gone through childbirth.

And I don't have to be a scientist to know that our plumbing is different!

I would imagine that this is what the poster in post# 3 was offended at.
That men's suffering were made equal to women's in this respect.
This seems to discount women for what they go through in childbirth and afterwards.

We're not physically, and therefore not emotionally the same when it comes to childbirth.

This is why a women's state during preganancy, not a man's,
has been declared a disability by the Government.

The following link on Postpartum Depression says:

"Many of the reasons for postpartum 'blues' are physical
with many changes taking place in the mother's body during pregnancy,
the stress of labor and delivery, (i.e. physical - causing emotional)
as well as hormonal shifts that occur once the baby is born".

http://www.pccnaturalmarkets.com/health/Homeo/Postpartum_Depression_hm.htm

I'm sure that some fathers may get depressed during and after the birth of their child,
for various reasons connecting to fatherhood.

I am not discounting this!

However, it's nowhere near to the extent of a mother's depression
and suffering for physically bearing a child!

It's much less, and it's not the same.

That's all my point was.

Oh yeah and welcome to DU.:hi:

[HuckleB]

45. What?

This is not what this research is about. No one is comparing mothers and fathers and how much they suffer, uh, except a few posters at DU, for some odd reason.

PPD affects 8-15 percent of mothers. This study shows that depression postpartum affects a bit more than 3 percent of fathers. So it's clear that there is much more at play, causing many more mothers to face depression during this period. Still, I'm not going to ignore 3 out of every 100 fathers simply because more mothers face depression at this time. That's just unkind.

[Joj Bush]

49. That doesn't mean they can't get it

The article doesn't disagree with your statement that "it's much less, and it's not the same," but that doesn't mean it should be discounted. And what makes you say it's much less? I'd agree it's probably less common, but it's hard to say that it's much less. Depression is somewhat of an on or off thing although there are various degrees of it, so I don't understand how a father's depression could be "much less" than something else without being depression. It's like anorexic males. It's less common, and has different causes, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be discounted. If someone is past the line of dperession there's no reason to point out that it's probably "much less" than someone else's. And if there's a trend that shows it corresponds to childbirth there's no reason not to call it post-partum, assuming they were doing their duties as a father.

I don't see how one article about post-partum depression in males makes it seem like childbirth is as bad for men as for women. It will never be seen as something that is just as common in males but to point out that it's possible for males is certainly necessary if it's true, espeically if recognizing it could help these fathers care for the mother and child better. Why would you be opposed to that?

[Megahurtz]

58. It's just much less for a man because

they don't have the body that's popping out the kid, it's really that simple.

Physical stress = mental emotional stress,
and with other outside stressors, it makes it much worse for the mother.

[ernstbass]

11. I hope Tom Cruise gets it if he has another child!!

[HuckleB]

14. LOL!

For the sake of the child, let's hope there's not another.

[geniph]

36. Aren't all his kids adopted?

I thought they were - I was pretty sure ol' Tom isn't fulfilling one of the prerequisites of biological fatherhood, at least ones not involving a turkey baster.

[HuckleB]

38. You're right.

They are adopted.

[Love Bug]

20. This doesn't surprise me

Having a new baby is a big change for both parents. Not getting enough sleep doesn't help, either.

[BrendaStarr]

25. Seems like sleep deprivation and stress could count for all that

Supposing the man is actually helping.

I have always found that science from the UK in issues of sex or behavioral differences between the sexes to be strange and leading.

[Megahurtz]

39. I agree. n/t

:thumbsup:

[HuckleB]

42. Umm.

This isn't a study about behavioral differences between the sexes, and it isn't even an issue of sex. It is merely a study that shows an increased risk of men developing symptoms of major depression postpartum. How is it strange or leading?

[Skittles]

43. or loss of attention due to the arrival of the baby

ya know?

[depakid]

48. Moods can be "infectuous"

It could well be that the men are reacting to their spouse's depression- and in any event, it makes sense to involve the partner in any treatment intervention tailored to post-partum issues.

[slackmaster]

53. Less severe than mom's but it lasts 18 years

:hide:

[Megahurtz]

63. LOL!!!

:rofl: Okay, you got me away from my seriousness!

Now I get it!

[Megahurtz]

64. Postpartum Depression

affecting parents due to "the end of life as we know it" syndrom.:silly:

[ChiciB1]

68. You Know What... Cruise Is Correct About Some Of This Stuff!!

What is this.... Tom Cruise month??? I happen to like him and he like Bill Maher happen to believe that Americans are over-medicated. I agree. I also agree that some people are in need of medication.

But now I would like to share my experience with you. I have OCD and was diagnosed in 1996. Here in my part of the world, psychiatrists don't counsel, they dispense meds! I was prescribed a multitude of what they call "tricylates" and that's some heavy stuff. Because of the amounts and variety that I was prescribed I had to have my blood tested regularly. While taking these meds I developed a Thyroid problem which required even MORE blood testing. Because OCD requires that you take meds to prevent seratonin re-uptake, you are given drugs that are pretty heavy.

Here are some of the drugs I was prescribed, many of them taken in conjunction with each other. Prozac, Anafrinil, Paxil 40 mg, Klonopin, Lamictal, Ambien, Topamax and others that I can't remember at this time. Oh and also meds for my thyroid problem. I got to where my energy level was almost nil! So I did a "cold turkey" and that was the biggest trauma my body has ever experienced. I can only say it must be like coming off of herion. That one they didn't give me. It was such a shock to my body and it took almost a month before I felt normal. I suffered through cold sweats, crying jags, tremors, the runs, ear ringing, depression, nausea, dizziness and what I felt was "out of body" experiences! What I didn't realize is that I could have suffered a heart attack by doing what I did, but fortunately I didn't.

Having researched this illness and finding out a lot of specifics I've been able to control it with just a few meds. Klonopin works well and doesn't destroy your liver like so many others do. Lamictal works well too, but it has side effects. I know I need some meds, but I also don't think I needed the variety and the dosages that were prescribed. I DO take vitamins and herbs and they do help.

This has gotten way too long. Just thought I would put my two cents, maybe a dollars worth in. Oh, and I was referred to a Counselor for my problems!!

[HuckleB]

69. Sorry, but Cruise is nothing short of irresponsible.

He doesn't believe that medication is warranted, period. Here's a short primer on Scientology and its war on psychiatry.

Scientologists vs. Psychiatrists --
Why they don't get along.
http://slate.msn.com/id/2121391/

That said, yes, general practitioners and some psychiatrists do prescribe too quickly, though this is abating a bit, at least in regard to general practitioners. Still, that doesn't make Cruise right, as he is clearly pushing a fundamentalist belief against all psychotropic medication.

I am glad that you appear to have come out of the wilderness in regard to treatment.

Salud!

[ChiciB1]

70. Okay... So I Don't Agree With His Scientology Rants

but I still think vitamins and herbs are helpful. I would never say that psychiatrists or psychologists aren't helpful, I was just saying that too many meds are being dispensed. Just take a pill and chill. Perhaps it's because we don't have National Health Care and it's just easier.

My daughter and her husband are Critical Care Nurses and have told me some gory stories.

I also want to know what's up with all the TOM CRUISE stuff anyway???

Is it another Schiavo diversion???

[HuckleB]

71. Well, I think he's working the media pretty well.

He seems to enjoy it. Gotta push the movie. And, I guess, while he's at it, go after some converts.

Yes, vitamins (in moderation) can be very helpful for everyone. And some herbal remedies can provide relief as well, though care must be taken with them, just as with pharma medication. I don't think Cruise had any business attacking Brooke Shields, much less pretending that he knows more about mental health than, uh, everyone else in the world. I mean, that's a bloody big ego, especially when he doesn't have the research to back up his treatment theories. And especially when the health of mothers and children, during a very vulnerable period, is on the table.

Blah. Blah. Blah. I know.

Again, thanks for sharing.

Salud.

:hi:

[ChiciB1]

72. Okey Dokey... I Agree

Mostly.... Hee Hee!

[HuckleB]

73. Parents With Mental Illness Face Daunting Challenges

http://pn.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/39/23/31