U.S. plans radioactive project

[deminks]

The Bush administration is planning the government's first production of plutonium 238 - a highly radioactive substance valued as a power source - since the Cold War, stirring debate over the risks and benefits of the deadly material. It is hot enough to melt plastic and so dangerous that a speck can cause cancer.

Federal officials say the program would produce a total of 330 pounds, or 150 kilograms, over 30 years at the Idaho National Laboratory, a sprawling site outside Idaho Falls some 100 miles, or 160 kilometers, to the west and upwind of Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming. The program could cost $1.5 billion and generate more than 50,000 drums of hazardous and radioactive waste.

"The real reason we're starting production is for national security," Timothy Frazier, head of radioisotope power systems at the Department of Energy, said at the end of a recent interview.

He vigorously denied that any of the classified missions would involve nuclear arms, satellites or weapons in space.

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/06/26/news/nuke.php

[tives12]

1. i don't get it

I do not see how it can be remotely possible for us to be the world police regarding nuclear material, when we are the worst ones?

[Massacure]

2. 330 lbs isn't nearly enough for a reactor.

Plutonium-238 cannot even be fizzled in a reactor. That means they must be planning on using a Radioisotope Thermoelectric Generator (RTG). Usually that means you are generating a little bit of power over a very long time. In this case, you only lose half of your original power every 80 something years.

I'm betting it does have to do with something in space, even if they deny it.

Edit: Plutonium-238 has an ability to generate .54 kilowatts of electricity per kilogram. So this will generate about 81 kilowatts of power. However RTGs are less than 10% efficiency, so we are probably looking in the range of 7-8 kilowatts of power. That is a lot for a space craft.

[ovidsen]

4. Very confusing.

If this P238 can't be used for weapons, and the US claims it won't be used to power satellites, what is it's purpose?

calling all experts...

[Massacure]

10. The U.S. says a lot of things that aren't true.

PU-238 cannot be fizzled, so that means you cannot power a fission reactor or make an atomic or hydrogen bomb with it. You can use it in an RTG generator to supply power for a really long time. Whatever the government is doing with it, it will be in some remote out of the way place where there is no grid power and no easy way to transport fuel to it.

[Spinzonner]

5. What about space-based lasers ?

[SouthernDem2004]

8. Not enough juice. /nt

[enough]

3. National SECURITY?

What insanity.

[silverweb]

6. This is nuts.

Completely and dangerously insane.

[ConfuZed]

7. "It is hot enough to melt plastic"

:rofl:

[PATRICK]

9. "vigorously deny"

That is too trite. I want to actually see him throwing his wig on the ground, stomping up and down at it and swearing like St. peter in the garden.

How else will those of us who can never believe these whoppers be impressed?

[Placebo]

11. "It's completely wrapped in the flag...they absolutely won't let on."

This worries me.

[Roland99]

12. "The real reason we're starting production is for national security"

:wtf:

National security?

Security from whom!?!?

[quaoar]

13. If they aren't going to use it for nuclear arms

then what the hell do they need plutonium 238 for?

[kskiska]

14. NYT: U.S. Has Plans to Again Make Own Plutonium

The Bush administration is planning the government's first production of plutonium 238 since the cold war, stirring debate over the risks and benefits of the deadly material. The substance, valued as a power source, is so radioactive that a speck can cause cancer.

Federal officials say the program would produce a total of 330 pounds over 30 years at the Idaho National Laboratory, a sprawling site outside Idaho Falls some 100 miles to the west and upwind of Grand Teton National Park in Wyoming. Officials say the program could cost $1.5 billion and generate more than 50,000 drums of hazardous and radioactive waste.

Project managers say that most if not all of the new plutonium is intended for secret missions and they declined to divulge any details. But in the past, it has powered espionage devices.

"The real reason we're starting production is for national security," Timothy A. Frazier, head of radioisotope power systems at the Energy Department, said in a recent interview.

more…
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/politics/27nuke.html?

[Massacure]

15. Dupe

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1583751&mesg_id=1583751

[Oversea Visitor]

16. Go blow up the world

Guess Dumb Fuck Chimp just no interested in peace.

[daleo]

17. Atom bombs don't last forever

Although I think Plutonium 239 is usually used for the core of atomic (or thermo-nuclear) bombs. I have read that the U.S. stock will need updating soon, but this wouldn't make too many bombs even if it was the right stuff. Probably some star wars type use is intended (powering satellites, not necessarily as weaponry per se).

[daleo]

18. It definitely looks like a space weapon thing (Pu238 was used on the moon)

Here is what Wikopedia says (I don't think the Bushies are interested in heart pacemakers, although Cheney may want his own personal supply):

"The plutonium isotope 238Pu is an alpha emitter with a half-life of 87 years. These characteristics make it well suited for electrical power generation for devices which must function without direct maintenance for timescales approximating a human lifetime. It is therefore used in RTGs such as those powering the Galileo and Cassini space probes; earlier versions of the same technology powered seismic experiments on the Apollo Moon missions.

238Pu has been used successfully to power artificial heart pacemakers, to reduce the risk of repeated surgery. It has been largely replaced by lithium-based batteries recharged by induction, but as of 2003 there were somewhere between 50 and 100 plutonium-powered pacemakers still implanted and functioning in living patients."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plutonium

[barbaraann]

19. US to resume plutonium 238 production-report

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The United States plans to produce highly radioactive plutonium 238 for the first time since the Cold War, The New York Times reported on Monday.

The newspaper quoted project managers as saying most, if not all, of the new plutonium was intended for secret missions. The officials would not disclose details, but the newspaper said the plutonium in the past powered espionage devices.

The Times said Timothy Frazier, head of radioisotope power systems at the U.S. Energy Department, vigorously denied in a recent interview any of the classified missions would involve nuclear arms, satellites or weapons in space.
...
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=578&e=4&u=/nm/20050627/ts_nm/arms_usa_plutonium_dc


Every day is a new hell. And isn't Bechtel going to take over Los Alamos?

[Up2Late]

20. Why do they have to produce it? I though it was one of the...

...by products of Nuclear Power generation? (i.e. one of the components of Nuclear waste that could me extracted to recycle the Fuel rods):shrug:

[praxiz]

22. It has to be enriched.

Biproducts from a nuclear plant are not highly enriched, so they're probably building a processing plant, which is a COMPLETELY different deal than a nuclear powerplant which just produces electricity.

[praxiz]

21. Oh .. grrrrrrrreat.. that's just .. oh man .. juuuuust greeeaaat...!

Remember when people comment on how stupid people were in the late thirties because they didnt see the signs that Hitler was about to wreck havoc and destruction on the world.

History repeats itself.

[carincross]

23. An Environmental Disaster

The plant is to be located just up wind from Yellowstone, the Grand Tetons, and Jackson Hole.

...Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do
Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul.
The Master of War - Bob Dylan (1963)

It's Deja Vu all over again!

[Robb]

24. Or if shot into space...

...one launchpad boo-boo could contaminate a lot of real estate real fast. :(

[progressivebydesign]

25. Yahoo has this on the front page with better headline..

be sure to rate it up. Their headline, which is MUCH MORE SINISTER, says that US is restarting plutonium production for SECRET MISSIONS. Now, y'all wanna guess what would happen if any other country were to make that same announcement? We'd be bombing them next week.. I'm officially scared.

[unhappycamper]

26. "They say the production effort is a potential threat to nearby ecosystems

including Yellowstone National Park, Grand Teton National Park and the area around Jackson Hole...."

Link to story:
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/politics/27nuke.html?ex=1277524800&en=d2a4c8d306596edf&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss


If I were going to begin producing the most poisonous, toxic substance known to man, I don't think I would position it near an active super volcano. When Yellowstone blows, survial of our species will be in doubt. The plutionium may be gone, but there will still be 50,000 barrels of radioactive waste.

Here's a few links on Yellowstone:
http://www.unmuseum.org/supervol.htm
http://volcanoes.usgs.gov/yvo/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/1999/supervolcanoes.shtml

[ovidsen]

27. A plutonium pellet and a minor slip of the tongs (NYT)

"Tongs in hand, gazing through a safety window, the specialist reached out gingerly to pick up the pellet of plutonium 238, which was hot enough to melt his plastic gloves. He did so in a hidden realm at a highly secure site at the Los Alamos National Laboratory, one of the few places in the world that works with this deadly form of plutonium.

"A labyrinth of checkpoints, guards with guns, intruder alarms, double fences, razor wire, spotlights and guard towers surrounded him and a handful of visitors on a special tour recently, including one reporter who was allowed to enter. Beeping radiation detectors reminded everyone of the health danger.

"Suddenly, he lost his grip."

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/27/national/27alamos.html?

It's enough to make you lose sleep!