Episcopalians Repudiate Election Of Gay Bishop

[CShine]

DALLAS -- Conservative Episcopalians overwhelmingly backed a declaration Thursday that repudiates their denomination for becoming more accepting of gays and calls on a meeting of world Anglican leaders "to intervene in the Episcopal Church."

By confirming the election of an openly gay bishop this summer and acknowledging that some bishops are allowing blessings of same-sex unions, the denomination's General Convention has "broken fellowship with the larger body of Christ," the statement said.

The declaration also demands that the leadership of the Episcopal Church "repent of and reverse the unbiblical and schismatic" actions. It asks Anglican leaders to discipline Episcopal bishops who "have departed from biblical faith and order" and "guide the realignment of Anglicanism in North America." The Episcopal Church is the U.S. branch of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

The statement was approved on the last day of an emotional gathering of about 2,700 Episcopal conservatives upset about the church's latest actions. Those who agreed with the statement were asked to stand -- virtually everyone did.

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/1003/09episcopals.html

[FlashHarry]

1. What a misleading headline!

The lead says conservative Episcopalians. The headline left of the word conservative. That's like saying, 'Americans support Bush.' Sheesh.

[CO Liberal]

7. Yes, It's a Misleading Headline

But in order to comply with the rules here on the LBN board, you have to use the EXACT headline that the original story carries.

[MnFats]

2. should say 'some' Episcopalians or "a few"

these people are a small minority of the Episcopal Church. The 'gay bishop' issue is seen as the last stand in keeping the church on its former narrow path.

They said the same types of things when the ordination of women priests was first considered. The church moved forward then and did not collapse.

These people are falling further behind every time they sound this type of alarm and cry wolf. The volume of their rants gets quieter all the time.

Well, the lesbian associate pastor at my Episcopal church agreed with my take (above) but she put it in much more loving terms along with hope for reconciliation. But then she's very good at that type of thing.

[Red_Viking]

4. Thanks for this explanation

Since I'm not Episcopalian, I relied on the news (let me be clear: NPR) for updates to this story. Although I heard reports on a so-called "unbiased" radio show, they always seemed to give the POV of the nutcases calling for a split in the church. Seemed like they had much more support than you describe. I'm gladdened to read an insider's opinion, that the majority of Episcopalians agree with this progress. I was personally glad when this man was confirmed.

When I hear the folks on the more conservative side, it's as if they've never read the Bible. Although I grew up Presbyterian, I no longer go to church, but I certainly know Christ said the two most important commandments are to love God and to love your neighbor. No asterisk, no qualifications--love everyone except for that gay guy.

Maybe they should hook up with Phelps?

:dem:
RV

[atreides1]

5. I Was Watching

A report of this group on TV, and as the camera panned the room, I saw
several women priests.

So maybe someone would explain to me why they are going to support a group that will more then likely strip them of their collars, should they seperate from the Episcopalian Church.

These women can be compared to the women of California who voted for the groper. They support something or some one that has little or no respect for them.

I guess I'll never understand women, or human nature for that matter.

[regnaD kciN]

18. Yes, there are a number of women in the traditionalist movement...

Although it would seem reasonable to see those supporting women in the clergy and gays in the clergy as having a common cause, it is not always the case. There are those who would see the previous all-male priesthood and episcopacy as a culturally-conditioned practice that was not really part of essential Christianity, but would hold that homosexuality is specifically forbidden.

Of course, it works the other way, too. A friend of mine (the one I mention in a post further down) was stunned when he was in England for graduate school a number of years ago, and found that a number of very openly-gay "high church" Anglicans were also adamantly if not violently opposed to women in the priesthood. In fact, one almost took a swing at him when he mentioned that he had received communion from a woman priest back in the U.S.

For what it's worth, I would point out my own experience from back in 1976, when the Episcopal Church opened the priesthood to women. A number of people (including most of my Episcopal acquaintances at college) left, either to form their own splinter denomination or to join the Roman Catholics. Of those people I knew, by far the most vocal, contentious, and hard-line in their insistance on an all-male priesthood were...women. Go figure.

[regnaD kciN]

19. Duplicate post

Sorry

[Lydia Leftcoast]

14. The lesbian associate pastor at my Episcopal church

and I have a PM in to MNFats to find out if it's the same church :-) gave a wonderful sermon the week after General Convention about reconciliation.

[Ellen Forradalom]

3. Don't they have real problems to worry about?

Karl Rove and Ann Coulter are Episcopalians. Donald Trump met his shack-up honey, er, second wife Marla Maples in an Episcopal church. Why aren't those moralists concerned about those blots on the church? sheesh.

[Sephirstein]

6. I hate the ****ing Malaysian synod...

They've come out vehemently against homosexuality...

Chinese Malaysians have no right whatsoever to be homophobic.

They should know what it feels like to be 2nd class citizens in their own goddamn country.

[MissMarple]

8. So, what does Jesus say about homosexuality?

I'm not particularly well informed on this, but I'm thinking he was silent on this issue. And that might mean...?

Someone told me a while back that Leviticus mentions it, but with a lot of other stuff few Christians even pay lip service to. And, it doesn't even make the big ten. This is obviously a cultural dilemma being dressed in the garb of religiosity.

[Sephirstein]

10. The answer is not what you think. :)

http://members.tripod.com/~SweettP/

[davidinalameda]

13. interesting

[atreides1]

11. Here's Some Passages From The Book Of Leviticus

Actually the Book of Leviticus is part of the Old Testament. It is in reality a book of laws, it even covered the lawful way to cook meat, and to fill lamps with oil.

This is what was stated:

"The point is that the Holines Code of Leviticus prohibitsd male same-sex acts because of religious considerstions, not because of sexual or
moral one. The concern was to keep Israel from taking part in Gentile
practices. The argument in Leviticus is religious not ethical or moral."

Leviticus 11 speaks of regulations regarding clean and unclean food; that we must not eat of anything with a split hoof(so much for that ham sandwich), or anything without fins or scales in the water(who here eats squid or octopus), or specific kinds of birds, or any flying insects that walk on all fours.

Leviticus 12 speaks of women being ceremonially unclean for 7 days following childbirth, and must wait 33 days, unless she has a daughter, then must wait 66 days to be purified from her bleeding and
then must bring a sin offering and be cleansed before being allowed to
worship.

Leviticus 19:19 "do not plant your field with two kinds of seed, do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material"

Leviticus 19:27 "do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard"

Leviticus 20:27 "a man or woman who is a medium or a spiritualist among you must be put to death. You must stone them."

The texts in Leviticus call it an "abomination" for a man to lie with a man as with a woman. The word in Hebrew means "to become unclean". It referred to a violation of the purity rules that governed Israelite
society and kept the Israelites different from the other people.

So I didn't see many of the priests with beards, which means that they are already in violation of God's laws.

[MnFats]

12. in addition, they needed to produce babies...

...short life expectancy, illness, war etc. they needed to reproduce to keep the population at numbers that would maintain their number and/or grow.
and whatever else you can say abou it, a main lyeth with another man as with a woman doesn't add to the tribe's numbers.


Matthew 7:21/22 has a good response to the fre-breathing preachers....

[shimmergal]

15. Jesus said _nothing_ about homosexuality,

as far as we know.

OTOH, he was very big on love and the need to overcome the handicaps of wealth.

[regnaD kciN]

17. While he doesn't SAY anything about it...

...there is one story repeated in Matthew (chapter 8) and Luke (chapter 7) about how a Roman centurion came to him asking for healing for his "servant" (Matthew) or "slave which he valued highly" (Luke). Now, the "valued highly" part is a translation of the Greek "entimos," from which is derived the English "intimate." In other words, said "servant/slave" was not likely "valued highly" for doing an excellent job at polishing the centurion's armor! It was not uncommon for Roman army officers (like the Greeks before them) to keep a younger male lover on their staff as a personal assistant, and it seems pretty likely that this was what the ill person in the Gospel stories was. It is notable that Jesus does, in fact, instantly heal this "servant," and certainly does so without any word of condemnation about the situation.

[gratuitous]

9. How about "A handful of Episcopalians"?

Sheesh! And the "anti" forces accuse US of schism! We've been hammering on the church doors for decades, centuries, even. The door cracks open the merest inch, and these people practically stampede running out. I suppose they throw their kids out in the street, too, if they get any "lip" from them, huh?

Boy, am I tired of these bigots rushing to assume the "victim" mantle just because a vote doesn't go their way.

[regnaD kciN]

16. The only problem I have with gay Episcopal clergy...

...is that the (fantastic) Vicar at my parish is resigning to take a job in England so he can be with his partner (the best man at our wedding, BTW), who just took on a professorship there. The parish won't be the same without him!

:-(