Cdn House of Commons debating same-sex marriage bill *watch live now*

[iverglas]

Sorry -- there's no headline for the live broadcast of debates in Parliament. ;)


Go here -- Canada's Political Channel.

http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=template&act=view3&template_id=46&lang=e

In the upper right, "watch cpac now", click "English" for windows media video.

The audio portion you get will be in English when the language being spoken in the House is English, and the interpreter's voice when the language being spoken is French.

CPAC's server upgraded its capacity a lot back when demand was high during the Gomery inquiry,
http://www1.magma.ca/aboutmagma/pressreleases/2005-02-15.cfm
so there shouldn't be any trouble getting in.

The bill to formally recognize that marriage is available to same-sex couples is a government (Liberal Party) bill. It is supported by the opposition New Democratic Party and Bloc Québécois, and opposed by the opposition Conservative Party.

The House of Commons is, at present, divided as follows:

Liberal -- 133
NDP -- 19
Bloc Québécois -- 54
Conservative -- 98
independent -- 4

Some Liberals will undoubtedly vote against, but with the Bloc voting for, there will be no problem, and the bill will pass. (A procedural mechanism has been invoked to prevent stalling by the Conservatives.)


The actual (and historic) VOTE on the bill will take place late tonight, and will also be broadcast live.

[Beaver Tail]

1. With the Bloc and Liberals

in general support of this it should go through

[iverglas]

2. a shameless kick

This really is something that a lot of people in the US would really like to watch / listen to, I think -- and that a lot of people in the US who aren't seeing this message should be tied down and forced to watch ... so spread it around!

You can open the CPAC video link in a window and listen while doing other stuff of course, as I am.

Ah, there is other business being done as well, but what the heck, you'll get to hear Members' statements on other stuff ... like mad cow disease, at the moment ...

The debate itself will presumably be this evening.

[Lexingtonian]

3. Why is the BQ voting for this?

I know what Canadian Liberals are like, but BQ/PQ people generally struck me as more conservative and not prone to vote for this sort of thing en bloc (so to speak).

[Maple]

4. BQ/PQ

are socialist

[Spazito]

5. Actually, by and large, Quebecers are more left than Liberals

and very progressive. I believe that if the Bloc didn't exist and separatism wasn't always an issue, Quebecers would be far more likely to support the NDP rather than the Liberals and they DON'T support the faux Cons at all.

[Lexingtonian]

6. Thanks

I hope the separatism really diminishes too- I lived in Ontario at the time of the referendum. There's a long way yet to go in Canada, but the more all these various other barriers diminish, the better.

[iverglas]

7. good heavens no!

The Liberal Party is simply opportunist, for the most part.

The people of Quebec are more socially progressive, in the aggregate, than the people of any other province or territory.

Although most old-stock Quebecers (and large numbers of immigrants in Quebec as well) self-identify in censuses as Roman Catholic, few (especially of generations born since 1950) feel constrained by anything the RC church says about how they should live their lives.

Quebec already has the highest rate of cohabiting outside of marriage in Canada -- including opposite-sex couples with children. Quebec society is formally very secular, and social programs -- like universal low-cost childcare -- have outstripped other Canadian provinces in the recent past.

The BQ and PQ are, of course, not "socialist".

The PQ started life, some decades ago, as a progressive party of the social-democrat bent. It ceased to be identifiable as such some years ago. As happens in many liberation movements among oppressed minority peoples, the indigenous élite has gained control of the party, and the PQ's economic agenda is as corporatist as any other centre-right (i.e. Liberal) Canadian party.

The BQ caucus in the House of Commons is still largely composed of very socially/economically progressive people.

[Darth_Kitten]

16. No, they are socially liberal....

Quebec is pretty liberal (so I've heard) :)

[imagine1989]

21. Rights

Because the Bloc believes in freedoms and rights.

[iverglas]

8. 3:10 p.m. -- debate on the same-sex marriage bill has resumed

The wrangling over the govt's statements about the use of Agent Orange and Agent Purple at Cdn military bases has ended ... and a gay MP is now expressing his appreciate for the support of other members.

[iverglas]

9. the text of the bill

(omitting the "consequential amendments" to other statutes)

An Act respecting certain aspects of legal capacity for marriage for civil purposes

Preamble

WHEREAS the Parliament of Canada is committed to upholding the Constitution of Canada, and section 15 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees that every individual is equal before and under the law and has the right to equal protection and equal benefit of the law without discrimination;

WHEREAS the courts in a majority of the provinces and in one territory have recognized that the right to equality without discrimination requires that couples of the same sex and couples of the opposite sex have equal access to marriage for civil purposes;

WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has recognized that many Canadian couples of the same sex have married in reliance on those court decisions;

WHEREAS only equal access to marriage for civil purposes would respect the right of couples of the same sex to equality without discrimination, and civil union, as an institution other than marriage, would not offer them that equal access and would violate their human dignity, in breach of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms;

WHEREAS the Supreme Court of Canada has determined that the Parliament of Canada has legislative jurisdiction over marriage but does not have the jurisdiction to establish an institution other than marriage for couples of the same sex;

WHEREAS everyone has the freedom of conscience and religion under section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms;

WHEREAS nothing in this Act affects the guarantee of freedom of conscience and religion and, in particular, the freedom of members of religious groups to hold and declare their religious beliefs and the freedom of officials of religious groups to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs;

WHEREAS it is not against the public interest to hold and publicly express diverse views on marriage;

WHEREAS, in light of those considerations, the Parliament of Canada’s commitment to uphold the right to equality without discrimination precludes the use of section 33 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms to deny the right of couples of the same sex to equal access to marriage for civil purposes;

WHEREAS marriage is a fundamental institution in Canadian society and the Parliament of Canada has a responsibility to support that institution because it strengthens commitment in relationships and represents the foundation of family life for many Canadians;

AND WHEREAS, in order to reflect values of tolerance, respect and equality consistent with the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, access to marriage for civil purposes should be extended by legislation to couples of the same sex;

NOW, THEREFORE, Her Majesty, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate and House of Commons of Canada, enacts as follows:

1. This Act may be cited as the Civil Marriage Act.

Marriage — certain aspects of capacity

2. Marriage, for civil purposes, is the lawful union of two persons to the exclusion of all others.

Religious officials

3. It is recognized that officials of religious groups are free to refuse to perform marriages that are not in accordance with their religious beliefs.

3.1 For greater certainty, no person or organization shall be deprived of any benefit, or be subject to any obligation or sanction, under any law of the Parliament of Canada solely by reason of their exercise, in respect of marriage between persons of the same sex, of the freedom of conscience and religion guaranteed under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the expression of their beliefs in respect of marriage as the union of a man and woman to the exclusion of all others based on that guaranteed freedom.

4. For greater certainty, a marriage is not void or voidable by reason only that the spouses are of the same sex.

I'm sure Her Majesty is pleased. ;)

If you're interested, see also:

http://www.parl.gc.ca/legisinfo/index.asp?Lang=E&Chamber=N&StartList=A&EndList=Z&Session=13&Type=0&Scope=I&query=4381&List=toc-1

Major Speeches in Parliament
House of Commons

Sponsor's Speech at Second Reading
Conservative Party of Canada Speech at Second Reading
Bloc Québécois Speech at Second Reading
New Democratic Party Speech at Second Reading

Status of the Bill

Selected Recorded Votes

______________

The current speaker, a Liberal, is stressing how marriage itself originated as an institution to protect property that was available only to the ruling class ... the Liberal speaker before her pointed out how a century ago women were denied equality and would not have been standing there speaking in the House of Commons ...


Damn, I'm getting freeze-ups on CPAC ... hopefully it isn't getting overloaded.

[Spazito]

10. Thanks, iverglas, for the text

The clause that says it all, when it comes to fighting the faux Cons, is this one:

WHEREAS only equal access to marriage for civil purposes would respect the right of couples of the same sex to equality without discrimination, and civil union, as an institution other than marriage, would not offer them that equal access and would violate their human dignity, in breach of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms;

It is the whole argument against the 'civil union' push in a nutshell, imo.

[Massacure]

25. So the government will recognize the marriage even if the church doesn't?

Sounds fair to me!

[CHIMO]

11. Wow

What a subdued back and forth. Harpy must really be on the run.

[iverglas]

12. love the Liberal-NDP lobbing

NDP MP speaks ... gets nice leading question from Liberal; Liberal MP speaks ... gets slightly more pointed leading question from an NDPer ...

Couple o' slightly apoplectic Conservatives in evidence, though.

All that religious freedom stuff ... glad somebody pointed out the problem of the religious freedom of religious institutions that want to perform same-sex marriages, of which there are several in Canada. (One in 10 Cdns or so belongs to the United Church, alone.) Not to mention the religious freedom of the people who want to marry their same-sex partners, of course.


I hope somebody in the US is watching. People who care about stuff like this can always use a shot of inspiration, and seeing a majority of the members of the Parliament of your next-door neighbour standing up in the House, and on national TV, and calling for gay men and lesbians to be given equal rights really is kinda inspirational.

Educational, too, for the furriners. ;)


Note: for anyone just tuning in to CPAC, you might hit a brief break in the proceedings when some other thing is being done ... like the reintroduction of a Conservative private member's bill to raise the age of consent to sex, which is what's on the floor as I type. The same-sex marriage bill debate will return shortly.

[CHIMO]

13. Holly Crap

Listening to the CPC character, Richard Harris, the bill C-38 will outlaw heterosexual marriage.

Gawd!

[iverglas]

14. Jeez ... my mind wandered

I was busy composing that very nasty email to Bev Desjarlais, the NDP MP who has so far voted against the bill. If she votes against it at the next reading, she may force the party caucus to expel her, and unfortunately *she* is not the one who loses if that happens.

Can you summarize the argument in question -- that recognizing the right of same-sex marriage will make opposite-sex marriage illegal? ;)

[CHIMO]

18. Wasn't An

Argument. The statements that he was making assumed that the vote would mean that only same sex marriage would be legal. Would have to go to Hansard to get the rest as I was taken aback at his words.

[iverglas]

19. vote's coming up soon?? - yes, the vote's coming up!

I'd better zip home for dinner -- aha, 4 minutes left, I just hear.

Only same-sex marriage will be legal ... whew ...

[Amonester]

15. Kick

:yourock:

[iverglas]

17. ta! - here's the direct link to the streaming video of the debate

http://www.cpac.ca/forms/index.asp?dsp=template&act=view3&template_id=22&lang=e

Click there, and you will immediately be transported to the floor of the House of Commons. Right now, there is a Liberal MP standing up for marriage as the union of one man and one woman for life, or however that chant goes, and praising the big-tent party that lets her be a vicious bigot without getting kicked out. Well, not quite in those words ...

[imagine1989]

20. This is amazing

I just might move to Canada. They debate... not just give speeches like they do in our Congress. I love it... they stand up for what they believe in, not just what their party believes in. They even yell at each other while they are talking! This is debate... this is lawmaking.

I'm so proud of by dual-citizenship.

[cgrrguyto]

22. vote call in 15 minutes!

I'll be especially proud this Canada Day. Hopefully Canada can serve as an example Americans can point to to bolster the position that after this vote, society WILL NOT fall apart at the seams. The sun will rise tomorrow, and peoples lives will go on. Marriage will not suffer by including SSM. Assuring equality of all denies nothing to the majority.

[imagine1989]

23. Vote Call Over!

The vote call is over... the bells have rung... the members have assembled... time for a historic vote!

[imagine1989]

24. Motion

There was just a motion that pretty much said how the actual vote on the bill was going to go (whether or not to send it back to the wording committee), and it was failed, meaning the actual bill would pass, 127 yay - 158 nay

[sonicx]

26. you mean the other way around right?