Rivlin: Russian move to examine Jewish text is serious anti-Semitism

[Behind the Aegis]

Knesset Speaker Reuven Rivlin opened Monday's plenum session by condemning a Russian decision to examine a code of Jewish halakhic law to ascertain whether it constitutes racist incitement and anti-Russian material.

Rivlin said "we in the Knesset are following the matter closely, due to both worry and zero tolerance of serious expressions of anti-Semitism such as this."

According to Israel Radio, a senior Foreign Ministry figure on Monday evening said Israel will view gravely any Russian decision to examine the Shulhan Arukh - a code of Jewish halakhic law compiled in the 16th century.

Russia's state prosecutor has ordered an examination of the Shulhan Arukh and the probe against a Jewish umbrella organization in Russia for distributing a Russian translation of an abbreviation of the Shulhan Arukh.

Story continues here

Some Russian officials have been "urging the state prosecutor to outlaw the Jewish religion and all the Jewish organizations operating in Russia." This is just frightening. Very reminiscent of the good ole Stalin days.

[Terran1212]

1. "Antisemitism" most widely used word among many jewish politicans

Not EVERYTHING is a massive conspiracy to eliminate the jewish race.

I wish they wouldn't use the word so liberally.

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Did you even read the article? n/t

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

4. Did YOU read the article?! n/t

[Fight_n_back]

7. People here have stopped reading

its "look for the buzzword and react with rejoinder buzzword" underground

Personally, Im not a bigot I just wish Blacks would stop playing the race card.

Personally, Im not a sexist, I just want uppity women to stop making everything about gender.

Personally Im not a homophobe, they should just keep it to them selves.

blah, blah, blah, im a progressive, blah,blech, wretch

[Behind the Aegis]

8. I think you may be right. How sad. :(

[geek tragedy]

15. Yep, some people see the word 'anti-semitism' and reflexively start

saying bad things about Jews (or Zionists, or Israel, or the PNAC, or the AIPAC, yada yada yada).

Must be some sort of conditioned response.

[Coastie for Truth]

27. That's the problem with the younger generation of

self-identified Progressives.

They have quit reading and researching.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

6. Is it also the reason Russian politicians...

...are trying to ban Jewish businesses?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

14. Did you read this paragraph?

<snip>
The inquiry was launched following a letter signed by 500 public figures, including some 20 members of the nationalist Rodina party, urging the state prosecutor to outlaw the Jewish religion and all the Jewish organizations operating in Russia.
<snip>

This is not about combatting racism. Jeebus, any fool can see that.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Hypothetical

Let's say that this 16th century piece of work that deals with Jews dealing with Jewish law and other Jews, DOES have racist material, should that justify the banning of the Jewish religion?!

The Shulkhan Arukh

[geek tragedy]

24. So, you must favor banning the Bible and the Koran, both of which

incite hatred and violence against non-believers?

Or maybe there's something else driving your thinking.



:puke:

[Coastie for Truth]

28. Kind of like the TSA agents at airports--

seizing anything written in Arabic -- including the Koran - and denyinmg borading to passengers carrying a Koran.

I HAVE PROTESTED THAT TOO

[Fight_n_back]

9. Please don't hijack this persons thread

this post is about RUSSIA.

But thanks for playing.

Saying that Israel is controlled by Zionist is about as groundbreaking as saying that the woman's movement is controlled by feminists.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

19. Open your eyes for the love of all that is good and right.

<snip>
The inquiry was launched following a letter signed by 500 public figures, including some 20 members of the nationalist Rodina party, urging the state prosecutor to outlaw the Jewish religion and all the Jewish organizations operating in Russia.
<snip>

They're talking about making it ILLEGAL TO BE A JEW.

[henslee]

25. Ding. Ding. Ding.

[Coastie for Truth]

29. That is about as silly as saying that the Koran teaches

terrorism and airplane hijacking and suicide bombing. And I know it doesn't because one of my Persian Shia friends gave me an English language Koran.

[Fight_n_back]

43. What you have said is indefensible

right wing Christians have hijacked the bible but I wouldn't waqnt the bible banned because of it.

I defend religious freedom because I am a Democrat.

[Jim Sagle]

16. "Israel is under control of zionists." Well, duhhhh!!!!

[geek tragedy]

18. Well, we are dealing with folks who aren't convinced that a proposal

to ban Judaism and all organized Jewish groups is anti-semitic, so you have to cut some of our 'anti-Zionist' DU'ers some slack.

[Jim Sagle]

22. I think I covered that before. But the mods didn't like the way I covered

it. ;-)

[geek tragedy]

10. Why criticize anti-semitism when you can criticize Jews for complaining

about anti-semitism?

Is anti-semitism really this acceptable on the left?

[Jim Sagle]

21. I can think of nothing to add to what you said.

Nothing that wouldn't get deleted, anyway.

[geek tragedy]

23. Believe me, I'm tempted to add something myself along those lines.

These are probably the same people who think that Gilad Atzmon is simply writing "fearless tirades against Zionism."

Feh.

[MrPrax]

31. So Atzmon...is?

Lemme think...a 'self-loathing Jew'?!!

But Hey! If the Russians squeeze the Jews in Russia, won't more of them just emigrate to Israel? Gotta like that part ;-)

[geek tragedy]

33. "Self-loathing" isn't accurate. He likes himself--just has contempt

for other Jews. He doesn't view himself as one of "them."

Still an unambiguously anti-semitic nutter by any sane definition.

What the hell do you mean "gotta like that part."

Racism and persecution are bad.

[Vladimir]

42. No, just an anti-semite

For a denunciation of Atzmon by a UK comrade, please see below. Atzmon, Shamir and the like are not people the left should spend any time defending...

http://leninology.blogspot.com/2004/07/anti-fascist-and-anti-anti-semitic.html

[geek tragedy]

46. Has Lenin commented on Atzmon's invitation this year?

It would seem that "No Platform" is no longer the policy.

But that's another thread topic entirely . . .

[Vladimir]

48. I don't think so

but I expect he has criticised it within the party. You are right - one cannot have a 'no platform' policy and then invite Atzmon...

[Vladimir]

56. You might be interested to know that

Sue Blackwell, of the AUT boycott fame, also denounced Atzmon...

[geek tragedy]

57. I saw that. She did that after he called any Jew who criticized Israel

Shamir a Zionist double-agent. I believe that article was entitled "The Protocols of the Elders of London."

[MrPrax]

49. Not sure...

exactly why the SWP or any of those 'red diapers' have to do with anything anymore...especially the UK variety and I am not sure why I, or anyone else, should have to consult with them.

I have read Atzmon's stuff before--he certainly has a point of view--but he does endorse full democracy in the state of Israel (yes...including non-Jews) and has stated bluntly that narrowly defined racial nationalism can lead in the opposite direction of where the Left is going...oh Gilad is, quite rightly, critical of the so-called Israeli Left...

Again not sure what UK commies have to do with a whole lot--hell SWP denounced 'punk rock' too!! ;-)

[Fight_n_back]

51. It is easy to endorse full democracy in Israel

since that is how it already works there.

"narrowly defined racial nationalism ". I don't know why you have to bring the Kurds and Palestinains and Irish and Uzbecks and Germans and Tibetans and Taiwanese and Native Americans into this discussion, It seems like it would be distracting, to say the least.

[Vladimir]

54. I am not asking you to care about the SWP

per-se (although as a member of RESPECT, the most succesful left-of-Labour electoral alliance in modern UK history, they aren't exactly idiots), I am asking you to give some thought to the views of Lenin (the blogger). He is an anti-zionist, and is supported in his assesment of Atzmon by virtually every left-leaning blog I have seen in the UK. You don't have to agree, of course, but dismissing him for being a "UK commie" is a quite shallow criticism...

For another example:

http://jewssansfrontieres.blogspot.com/2005/06/sympathy-for-devil.html

[geek tragedy]

58. Atzmon is first and foremost an anti-semite and Judenhass propagandist.

He makes Pat Buchanan sound like the ADL.

[Fight_n_back]

12. I find it very telling

that you can't even come out against Russians wanting to outlaw a religion.

[Coastie for Truth]

30. Must be a Berkeley Liberal. N/T

[Fight_n_back]

50. Im a Berkeley Liberal

and I rock....cuz I didn't go to the school.

[Coastie for Truth]

26. Our liturgy commands us to explain slowly with him who lacks understanding

So, Terran1212 --- and a few others -- perhaps before demonstrating what you don't know - you should act like a good Progressive and good Liberal -- and ASK QUESTIONS AND DO RESEARCH - that's one of the MAJOR differences between Conservatives and Progressives.

The Shulkhan Arukh

The legal code known as the Shulkhan Arukh, compiled by the great Sephardic rabbi Joseph Caro in the mid­1500s, is still the standard legal code of Judaism. When rabbis, particularly if they are Orthodox, are asked to rule on a question of Jewish law, the first volume they consult generally is the Shulkhan Arukh. A major reason for its universal acceptance is that it was the first code to list the differing customs and laws of both Sephardic and Ashkenazic Jewry. (Maimonides's earlier Mishneh Torah, for example, contained only the legal rulings of Sephardic Jewry, which differed in certain areas from European Jewry's practices.) This unique feature was not intended by Joseph Caro, but came about through a happy coincidence. At the very time that Caro was compiling his code, a similar undertaking was being planned by Rabbi Moses Isserles of Poland. Isserles, known in Jewish life as the Rama, was thrown into some despair when he first heard about Caro's work, for he knew Caro to be a greater scholar than himself. Nonetheless, he soon realized that both Caro's legal code and his own would not by themselves meet the needs of all Jews. Thus, the Shulkhan Arukh was published with Caro's rulings listed first, and Isserles's dissents and addenda included in italics.

The Shulkhan Arukh is divided into four volumes:

1. Orakh Hayyim-laws of prayer and of holidays.

2. Yoreh Deah-diverse laws, including those governing charity (tzedaka), Torah study and the Jewish dietary laws.

3. Even ha­Ezer-laws concerning Jewish marriage and divorce.

4. Khoshen Mishpat-Jewish civil law.

To this day, rabbinic ordination (semikha) usually is given to a student only after he has been examined on the Shulkhan Arukh, particularly on those sections that deal with kashrut (dietary laws). More than rote knowledge of the Shulkhan Arukh's rulings, however, is expected. A popular Jewish folktale tells of a young student who came to a prominent rabbi to be tested for ordination. The rabbi's first question was "Name the five volumes of the Shulkhan Arukh."

The student, thinking that the rabbi had made a slip of the tongue, named the four volumes, but the rabbi asked him to name the fifth.

"There is no fifth volume," the student said.

"There is indeed," the rabbi said. "Common sense is the fifth volume, and if you don't have it, all your rulings will be of no use, even if you know the other four volumes by heart."

The Shulkhan Arukh's exhaustive presentation of the details of Jewish law is suggested by the following, taken from the section listing the laws of Torah study, in which Caro gives directives to both teachers and pupils:

"The rabbi should not be angry with his pupils if they do not understand but he should repeat the matter over and over again until they grasp the proper depth of the law. The pupil should not say that he understands when he does not but should ask over and over again. And if the rabbi is angry with him he should say, 'Rabbi, it is the Torah and I want to know it, but my mind is inadequate"' (Yoreh Deah 246:10).


Note to mod: permission granted to copy

and

Joseph Karo's Shulhan Arukh


From Jewish Literacy
by Rabbi Joseph Telushkin

. . . he Shulkhan Arukh was published with Karo's rulings listed first, and Isserles's dissents and addenda included in italics.

The Shulkhan Arukh is divided into four volumes:

1. Orakh Hayyim -- laws of prayer and of holidays
2. Yoreh Deah -- diverse laws, including those governing charity (tzedaka), Torah study (see Talmud Torah), and the Jewish dietary laws (see Kosher)
3. Even ha-Ezer -- laws concerning Jewish marriage and divorce
4. Khoshen Mishpat -- Jewish civil law. . . .

The Shulkhan Arukh's exhaustive presentation of the details of Jewish law is suggested by the following, taken from the section listing the laws of Torah study, in which Karo gives directives to both teachers and pupils:

"The rabbi should not be angry with his pupils if they do not understand but he should repeat the matter over and over again until they grasp the proper depth of the law. The pupil should not say that he understands when he does not, but should ask over and over again. And if the rabbi is angry with him, he should say, 'Rabbi, it is the Torah and I want to know it, but my mind is inadequate'" (203-204).




From The New Jewish Encyclopedia
Edited by David Bridger, in Association with Samuel Wolk


KARO, JOSEPH (1488 - 1575)

. . . Born in Spain, he was a child among the deportees during the expulsion of the Jews from Spain in 1492. He lived in Lisbon for five years, and then settled in Turkey where he became head of a Talmudical academy, and began his life-work as commentator on and codifier of Rabbinic Law. In 1536 he settled in Safed, Palestine, where he was ordained by the great Talmud authority, Rabbi Jacob Berab, and where he founded his own Talmudical academy (Yeshivah) and wrote most of his outstanding works. His most popular work, the Shulhan Arukh, is a condensation and summary of his extensive work on Rabbinic Law, the Bet Yosef, which was originally planned as a commentary on Jacob ben Asher's code, the Arbaah Turim. . . (263).



Works Cited

* Telushkin, Joseph. Jewish Literacy (New York: William Morrow and Company, Inc., 1991).

* Bridger, David, ed. The New Jewish Encyclopedia (New York: Behrman House, Inc., 1976).



Mods: Permission granted to copy

[MaryBear]

52. Thank you for posting this.

[geek tragedy]

11. Wow, this thread has already attracted its share of idiocy.

Legislation is introduced in Russia to persecute Jews, and people start bashing Jewish politicians, whining about people objecting to anti-semitism, and trying to hijack the thread into a discussion about 'Zionism.'

This kind of legislation is horrible, and a sign that Russia is further backsliding towards the bad old days.

[Vladimir]

32. I don't understand what the point of all this is

I am hardly against censorship per-se, but I don't particularly see what this book (which seems a historical document if anything) is going to do that makes it so dangerous. If its a question of inciting to hatered, I hope they will start questioning the orthodox church leadership about the bible soon...

[geek tragedy]

34. The point is to persecute Jews--something Russians have done for

centuries.

[Vladimir]

45. Sure seems like it

although I would say Russia, not Russians.

[geek tragedy]

47. Good point. The pogroms were not spontaneous--they were organized

by the repressive governments.

[anotherdrew]

35. This could be bad, but...

maybe the reason for this investigation is to calm some people's fears that something is going on with 'some group of zionist jews' and put this thing to bed. Hopefully that's all it will come to. The authorities will calm the situation and hopefully put an end to this burgeoning anti-semitism. I would say however that there just possibly COULD be something to this, the world jewish community is not monolithic, and it's possible there could be some small segment publishing hateful literature in hopes of getting more russian jews to move to Israel. IT would be an awfully bad move, but it's just possible.

Best thing that could happen would be if someone could get their hands on a few copies of this and have some disinterested parties check that it's not a whacky translation.

[geek tragedy]

37. No, that's not it at all. It's just good old fashioned Russian Judenhass.

<snip>
The inquiry was launched following a letter signed by 500 public figures, including some 20 members of the nationalist Rodina party, urging the state prosecutor to outlaw the Jewish religion and all the Jewish organizations operating in Russia.
<snip>


1) Groups demand that Judaism and all Jewish organizations be banned;

2) In response, a state prosecutor launches an inquiry proposing to ban Jewish religious materials.

[anotherdrew]

38. ok, well, sounds like it was just more Russian nonsence

What is up with this? Why are they trying to start this shit up again? Anyone have any clear idea on what groups are behind this lately?

[geek tragedy]

40. Same old same old. Far right Russian nationalists--the Zhirinovsky

crowd.

[anotherdrew]

41. so Putin may not like this much either then maybe?

by 'this' I mean these folks trying to grow more anti-jewish mentality

[geek tragedy]

44. I suspect that W's good friend Vladimir only cares about the publicity. nt

[NorthernSpy]

36. update: the case has been dropped

So says the Guardian.

[geek tragedy]

39. That's excellent news. However, this inquiry represented harassment

and discrimination nonetheless.

[MaryBear]

53. Agreed.

[Behind the Aegis]

55. Wonderful!

But, how scary is it that this is happening in 2005!? How scary is it that some here had no problem with this? How scary is it that with all the hyperbole about Nazis, that something like this is passed over?!