Democrats struggle to find one voice on Iraq, bush's poll falls

[bufffbison]

By Rick Klein, Globe Staff | June 30, 2005

WASHINGTON -- House and Senate Democrats, sensing an opportunity in President Bush's sagging poll numbers and an increasingly unpopular war, have held a series of long, closed-door meetings over the past several weeks to find a common position and a sharpened political message on the Iraq War.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2005/06/30/democrats_struggle_to_find_one_voice_on_iraq/?rss_id=Boston+Globe+--+National+News

[Mari333]

1. Calling Bush a liar and demanding impeachment proceedings

is a start..altho some Dems, who voted for Bush to attack Iraq, need to come down a few pegs and admit they were also idiots.

[katty]

16. Amen to that-start w/the long list of Impeachable Crimes

[Initech]

22. Maybe we can start a "RECALL BUSH" campaign

Really, he has a 42% approval rating. I bet that if Al Gore was in charge and he was pulling all this shit, the Republicans would be demanding the same thing.

[KansDem]

27. "...some Dems, who voted for Bush to attack Iraq..."

Actually, I don't see this as a problem. Sure, you know Bush lied and I know bush lied, but Democrats who voted for war (in order to save their seat in Congress by not being branded as "unpatriotic") could go on the House/Senate floor and throw up their hands, shake their heads, and say, "I am soooo angry that I voted to invade Iraq based on Bush Administration information...information which now has been proven to be a lie! I was lead to believe Bush was being honest with us...!" Who's going to slam them for that? The GOP? How would the Republicans counter this statement? "Hey, wait. Bush was lying all the time...you knew that!" It would only make them look foolish.

I'm surprised more Dems haven't done this already.

[LightningFlash]

33. The only way they can do it is by breaking free of the corrupt DLC.....

....PNAC is in bed with the DLC....They need to grow a HOWARD DEAN sized spine NOW and denounce this bullshit!!!! :banghead: :banghead:

http://www.defenddemocracy.org/biographies/biographies.htm

[converted_democrat]

46. You know what...........

I think your abosolutely right!

[WhiteTara]

45. Kick

[CTLawGuy]

47. nice idea

the problem is no one would buy it...

[paulk]

41. it is because Bush lied that "some Dems" voted for the IWR

which, btw, was not a vote for Bush to attack Iraq, it was a vote to put pressure on Hussein to force weapons inspectors in, in Bush's own words. Of course, that was a lie too.

How can you expect the Democratic leadership to be united on Iraq when their own constituents continue to say things like you have?

[CTLawGuy]

48. it was the authorization of force

it gave bush the authority to invade Iraq. So you are not correct. It has nothing to do with weapons inspectors whatsoever. It is all about enabling Bush to make an illegal war.

[bigluckyfeet]

49. I wrote the White House Last Week

and said chimp should be impeached and tried for treason,so far no responce.

[OKNancy]

2. that headline sucks

"struggle" makes it seems negative. The article itself says there are different viewpoints and they are TRYING to come up with a unified message.
I think the headline writer was trying to put a negative spin on it.

[IrateCitizen]

3. Is it really that far from the truth???

I mean, you have Dennis Kucinich, Neil Abercrombie, Maxine Waters, Lynn Woolsey, etc. calling for a withdrawl plan and the beginning of said withdrawl on one side, and you have Joe Biden, Joe Lieberman, Hillary Clinton, etc. on the other side saying how we have to do it "better" to "win".

Seems like some pretty disparate views to me.... :shrug:

[leftchick]

4. and Biden and the others are calling for more "Boots"

which is bullshit. Now is the time for ALL of the Democrats to get on the same page as Kennedy and formulate a plan for with drawl from Iraq.

[saigon68]

37. Biden is a CHICKEN SHIT COWARD

He thinks he's running for President.

He is the Senator from MBNA a BOOT LICK PAR EXCEL-LANCE.

p.s. Thanks for the vote on the BANKRUPTCY BILL JOE. Your nose is so far up the Bank's ass you can't breathe

[Straight Shooter]

11. I agree. How about the word "wrangle"?

Struggle seems to imply that they don't even know where to begin, and that there's animosity involved. Wrangle means the participants know where to begin, they just want to make sure they end up on the same page.

Anyway, that's how I see it. I can't remember the last time I saw a word like "struggle" applied to Republicans, but of course it's hard to struggle when you're basically in Stepford lockstep.

[Left Brain]

19. My first thought, too.

That headline slays me. The writer leads with a negative tone toward the Dems, then gives a few token words about the polls as an afterthought. Classic "liberal" news bias, 'eh?

[nolabels]

31. The entirety of the corporate media structure sucks

Why would think any one headline from them would be any different?

[zara]

5. Yes, put in more boots: centrist Democrats want to make a Democratic War!

History doesn't repeat itself but it rhymes. Good morning Vietnam!

[Larkspur]

6. "A camel is a horse designed by a committee"

that sums up my response to this article. It is a good article and verifies my instincts as to why the Dems don't have a unified response on Iraq.

Here's some more of my comments on this situation...
Senate Democrats had a similar meeting last week, which ended with senators agreeing to demand clearer goals from the Bush administration, but disagreeing on what the goals should be.

Senator Joseph I. Lieberman of Connecticut expressed concern that Democratic criticism of the war might undermine public support for the troops, while others discussed a resolution to set a timetable for withdrawal sponsored by liberals Barbara Boxer of California and Russell Feingold of Wisconsin.

A substantial number of Democrats in the House and Senate voted to give Bush the authority to invade Iraq -- including John F. Kerry, the party's presidential nominee in 2004 -- and even those who opposed the war are now split on whether to begin withdrawing troops or keep as many as necessary to restore order.

Liberals such as Representative Dennis J. Kucinich of Ohio have demanded an immediate withdrawal of troops. New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is eyeing a run for president, warned that an intense, public debate over Iraq could bitterly divide the nation, as happened during the Vietnam War, when there was conflict in the streets.
<SNIP>
What a hypocrite! I don't see Hillary sending Chelsea into the military to support a war she voted for.

Thanks to Bush and Dems like Hillary, Lieberman, and Kerry, this nation is in a Catch-22 on Iraq. I favor withdrawal but I also understand that the consequences of abandoning Iraq to violence and anarchy will help Al Queda and other Islamic insurgents who hate us.

Lieberman, who ran for vice president five years ago, believes more troops should be sent to finish the job in Iraq, and that the party should support it.
<SNIP>
And Lieber-bush is not sending his kids to support his war god. Lieberman is a war crimminal and if I get the chance, I'd gladly join an international posse to haul him in to be tried for war crimes along with Bush and Cheney and Gephardt.

Despite Democrats' concerns about the progress of the war, only about 60 of the House's 202 Democratic members are supporting a resolution calling for Bush to articulate war goals and bring home troops beginning in October 2006. The resolution has three GOP supporters.

Democrats see discontent with Bush as a powerful tool to use against incumbent Republicans in next year's midterm congressional elections. If they fail, some party insiders warn, they will have squandered an opportunity to gain seats in Congress and seize momentum heading into the 2008 presidential election.

''I'm from Hawaii, and I know you either ride the wave or the wave rides over you," said Representative Neil Abercrombie, a Democrat. ''Democrats would be well-advised to ride this one. It's just a question of time for the party to realize that."

Party leaders believe that news of seemingly endless turmoil in Iraq -- including prisoner abuse cases at Abu Ghraib, kidnappings, near-daily suicide bombings, and mounting US casualties -- combined with other issues such as Social Security, the budget deficit, and spiraling health care costs, will convince voters to oust GOP incumbents in Congress. Bush aggressively pushed the case for war, and many of the top members of his administration are facing questions about erroneous information regarding the presence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq and the belief that US troops would be hailed as liberators.

But Democrats continue to struggle, much as Kerry did in his run for the White House last year. Kerry's nuanced stance on Iraq -- he voted for the war but against some funding for the troops -- helped Bush frame the first presidential campaign since the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks as a referendum on national security.

At a Senate hearing last week with Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld and other Bush administration officials, the internal party divisions came into public view. Senator Edward M. Kennedy asked Rumsfeld why he has not resigned. Clinton, a young woman during the late 1960s, remembered the angry, violent confrontations over Vietnam. ''We have many disagreements about how to engage in and how to win it, but I never want to live through that again," she said.

In a statement Rumsfeld quickly applauded, Lieberman worried that congressional leaders are not doing enough to inform the public about what US troops have accomplished and why they need support. ''Because of the bravery and brilliance of the American military, the people of Iraq were liberated from a brutal dictator," Lieberman said.
<SNIP>

And here's the crucible for the Democrats, especially those that voted for IWR...
...some remain uncomfortable about opposing the war. In all, 29 Democratic senators and 81 representatives voted for the war in late 2002, and the possible political fallout from criticizing their own decision has some worried, said Representative Michael E. Capuano, a Somerville Democrat.
<SNIP>
Moral and political cowardice is how I define this rationale along with Hillary's "not wanting to relive the turmoil of the 1960's anti-Vietnam war protests."

[Solly Mack]

17. "public debate" is divisive? it's a bad thing?

"New York Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton, who is eyeing a run for president, warned that an intense, public debate over Iraq could bitterly divide the nation, as happened during the Vietnam War, when there was conflict in the streets."

Damn

What country is this again?

[Frederik]

28. Hillary is the voice of the Establishment

The Establishment obviously wants to "win" in Iraq, whatever that might mean, and they don't approve of Bush's handling of the war any more. And they are afraid of rassroots opposition more than anything.

[laureloak]

7. "Democrats struggle.." I'm tired of reading that GOP phrase.

[ninkasi]

8. In my own humble opinion...

we need to withdraw right away. Staying until the country is stable is an impossibility, since our presence contributes greatly to the situation. Flooding Iraq with more American troops only presents more targets for death and horrible injuries.

We cannot rebuild a country which is in the process of being destroyed constantly. Sure, Halliburton, KBR, and the Smirk's cronies profit, but it is bankrupting us, and inviting more militants to come fight us in Iraq.

Bush's stubborn refusal to face up to his fuck ups must seem the answer to Osama's prayers. They don't have to worry about getting into this country to cause American deaths, we are sending targets to them. Osama couldn't operate in Iraq before, but now it's anybody's battlefield.

There is no shortage of Muslims willing to die to remove us from their lands, and new recruits are being created every day. While I know that we do owe the Iraqi people an enormous debt for destroying their country, we can't be the ones to fix it with our presence there.

I know we have to pay the bill, but we have to find another way to deliver the payment. What a truly tragic situation we, and the Iraqi people are in,due to a small group of greedy, arrogant cowards, who will stop at nothing to control the last drop of oil, and the last penny in the treasury.

We should have elected Dennis or Howard Dean.

[underthedome]

12. So the U.S. leaves and Iraq becomes a blackhole

And it goes unchecked, is this the best plan you've got?

[grahamhgreen]

18. The Iraqis can do a better job securing THEIR country than we can.

We are the problem, not the solution.

THAT's the message.

Keep it simple.

[underthedome]

21. They can? True Saddam did a good job. *nm

nm

[grahamhgreen]

32. How many more Americans should die in order to set up an Islamic Republic

in Iraq?

[LightningFlash]

34. NONE!!!! And all the god damn democrats need to stand up and say...

"Get the army away from Halliburton and stop GUARDING the oil contractors!!!!! Give them back their resources now!!!!"

They need to scream that, then secure the borders and get people OUT!

[ckramer]

25. If US is to withdraw now, probably less Iraqis will die than withdrawing

later.

Let the Iraqis sort themselves out. There is nothing we can do about it. This is an internal affairs.

Bush should say: "fuck it, I made a mistake, I'm getting out!"

Another Saddam Hussein? So be it.

The civil war broke out? So be it.

We shouldn't have gone in in the first place.

Just make sure Americans are helping both sides.

That's the best plan I can think of.

[TankLV]

30. It becomes a hell hole no matter what we may try to do.

Best to lance a boil than let it fester.

Sooner the better.

Now - not later.

How do you ask the last soldier to DIE for a LIE?

There is no good reason to linger.

The sooner we leave, the sooner Iraq can straighten out the mess. Our presence just prolongs the inevitable.

[thebigidea]

36. its not a black hole now?

All these arguments about leaving Iraq being "unthinkable" lose a lot of their power when those arguing the point aren't willing to go themselves. If its so crucial to stay in Iraq, why don't you take the point?

[SammyWinstonJack]

40. That's it.

"....due to a small group of greedy, arrogant cowards, who will stop at nothing to control the last drop of oil, and the last penny in the treasury.

[The Stranger]

9. No more lying. No more looking the other way, pretending not to see.

End the war. Bring the troops home. The war was based on lies, and those who orchestrated it should be impeached and prosecuted as war criminals.

[Miss Chybil]

10. GIVE IRAQIS THEIR JOBS BACK! nt

[Cocoa]

13. the republicans are divided too

and the media is going to try to minimize any GOP losses in 2006 as best they can, by focusing on the dems' divisions.

[raysr]

14. I just read how Kerry

defended the *'s position except with a few mods. What a handjob he is.

[renaissanceguy]

15. haha I like that term

"handjob"



http://www.cafepress.com/liberalissues/472476

[msmcghee]

20. Dem pols should maybe chill . .

Unfortunately (or actually fortunately for America) liberals are about process - not about having all the answers ahead of time.

We may have a lot of opinions about any particular topic. But we respect fairness and objectivity - rather than dogmatism and emotionally satisfying righteousness. It is far more likely that we will come up with the best answers following that path.

I'd hate to see us become the mirror image of our ideological right-wing opponents. This last few years should be evidence enough of the damage that ideology can cause when applied to real-world policies.

[mmonk]

23. They are not good at hints

of what might work because they have been too busy following what they thought was popular sentiment and have been caught off guard with what many of us have been saying such as tell the truth about the war in Iraq.

[ckramer]

24. Democrats, look no further

Come to DU!

[Solly Mack]

26. How about: "Bush lied. Iraq war bad. Those who voted to yield power to"

Bush were wrong. Let's stop the madness."

[TankLV]

29. Only one problem with this.

It's the "I'll stick my finger in the air to see which way the wind is blowing" and then do the same thing.

This is the true and sorry state of the dem party.

Whatever happened to just doing what is right, no matter what the polls are? Fight the good fight, and keep on fighting, even if you might initially or sometimes lose?

I hate people who only now just "figured it out that we hate this goddamn war" and are ONLY NOW trying to figure out how to "play" this politically!

Don't get me wrong - I'm glad they are finally meeting, but the emphasis is wrong.

[Chomskyite]

35. Why? It's not election time yet

Let the Bushies come up with the answers on what to do about the disaster in Iraq. We're a big tent party. We agree on Bush's being to blame for the disaster and that he cannot be trusted to fix the problem. Beyond that, what else is there to do.

This is manufacure-the-argument journalism at its worst.

[symbolman]

38. All I can say is

CONYERS FOR PRESIDENT!

He has bold ideas, seeks truth and also will not back down - when he was at the gate of the White House with 560,000 signatures and 122 Congressmen he was there to do some serious ass kicking...

Bush isn't a tenth of the man that Conyers is.

[brooklynite]

39. A common position...what a novel concept

I've had a chance in the past few months to speak directly with Pelosi, Schumber, Emanuel and Kerry, and I've raised this point time after time: the Party has got to get behind a simple, consise, common message about what they stand for.

[leesa]

42. All you have to do is admit the war was illegal Dems. It ain't hard.

You can even hide your complicity by saying you were lied to.

[The Night Owl]

43. Democrats struggling to find one voice on Iraq? Excuse me?

The Bush administration can't decide if the Iraq insurgency is in its "last throes" or no weaker than it was 6 months ago, but according to the BG, the Democrats are struggling to find one voice on Iraq. That's rich.

:grr:

[Barkley]

44. Here's the voice/ message:

Iraq's long-term economic, social and political development is NOT the responsibility of U.S. tax-payers.

We're literally sending truck loads of money to Iraq while we ignore basic needs here at home such as rising healthcare costs and higher education.

The Dem's top priority must be to make sure that social security remains solvent through the remainder of the century.

[confludemocrat]

50. "behind closed doors" Biden Bayh Kerry should wait outside in the hallway

Because if they are in on these "closed door meetings", we'll get more of the same.

[confludemocrat]

51. "the exception that proves the rule" here (n/t)