Sailors, airmen saying no thanks to Army offer

[lebkuchen]

Only 375 airmen or sailors have so far transferred to the Army under the Blue to Green program, more than 3,000 soldiers short of what Army officials had hoped for.

Since the program was launched last July, another 750 recently retired airmen and sailors also were enticed to enlist because of the program, which shortens training time, according to Lt. Col Roy Steed, branch chief of the Army’s recruiting policy and plans.

But even with those prior-service recruits, the program’s enrollment is still well short of the 3,400 transfers Army officials had projected they could place in open slots this year.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=30040

Bad news for the Red States. The Bushies will soon expect them to ante up.

[Dhalgren]

1. In all seriousness - and not looking for a glib answer,

why is it that supporters of this "war" won't volunteer for it? Is it pure cowardice or something else?

[billyoc]

2. I think that many of the supporters of the war

are simply too old to enlist. I don't see a lot of 20-somethings saying anything good about it.

[Tempest]

3. Not true

Many of the war supporters I know are under the age of 40.

And then there's the College Repug groups who refuse to enlist.

[ElectroPrincess]

11. And the Army recently changed the MAXIMUM age for ...

Initial Enlistments from 34 to 38 years of age! Yeah Freeper guys and gals, come support your Dear Leader in the Oil War. It's soon to spread ACROSS The entire Middle East.

Come on over and serve your blessed Dear Leader and the Investor Class - Come On Working and Middle Class Right Wingers 18-38 years of age?

[Dhalgren]

4. And I would suppose that "support" for this "war"

would drop more quickly and more deeply among those who might actually have to serve - so you have a good point. But yesterday someone, being sarcastic, asked why the fundie churches weren't pushing for their congregations to pony up their kids for this "good war". And I wonder, seriously, why they aren't.

[saigon68]

32. The Fundie Churches need members to Pony up $$$$$$$

The sole function of a FUNDY church is to keep the Head Pastor in $800.00 suits, a new Cadillac, a million $$$$$ house and to build the biggest, loudest, most obnoxious "PLACE OF WHORESHIP" (thanks Jim Baker)

and no that's no a mis-spelling.

[norml]

19. If they're too old to enlist they could drive a truck for Halliburton

They could build and maintain bases with KBR. They could do security for Blackwater. There's no need for age to be an obstacle for going to Iraq.

[northzax]

5. without insulting anyone

I can answer that. The President has never asked them to. They hear, from the sources they trust, that we have enough soldiers, that we don't need more. So I actually let them off the hook. If the President, on Tuesday night had some out and said "we need you to enlist" then I can call them hypocrites. but as it stands, we have an all volunteer military, there is no obligation to serve, and no one, I repeat no one, has said 'join the army, your country needs you'

Why would they enlist without being asked to?

ok, now comes the mocking tone of everyone attacking me. but face it, no one is telling people to enlist in the military. the country doesn't need my sacrfice, we don't need more soldiers, why should I sign up? <I was not a supporter of the war, nor have I served in the armed forces>

[Dhalgren]

6. That is an excellent point. Just because the Armed Services

are squawking about missing enlistment quotas is not the same thing as the CIC asking for volunteers. You're right, no one has said there is a crisis in filling military needs.

[Jersey Ginny]

Their doublespeak leaves Americans will no call to duty

You are right about this. Good point.

[Jersey Ginny]

10. Soon other service branches will be told to "downsize"

and the "unnecessary" recruits will be place in the Army. Another backdoor draft. The spin will be that the Armed Forces are "one" and that sharing of "resources" makes America stronger. In the meantime, the sailor will soon end up with a Vietnam flak jacket and a gun in his hand in Bagdad, like our Natl Guardsmen.

[insane_cratic_gal]

14. Yes they've asked my hubby

to go over twice in less then 6 months now.

As a squid, he's done combat camera, and now they want him to do PR.

Where he is now, he can't be replaced as easily. It's the only thing that has saved him from being sent over.

[davepc]

31. you underestimate the Navy and Air Force bureaucracy's in the DoD

The wont cede their mission, their manpower, or their budget to the Army unless congress makes a BIG push to make them, and with the number of congressional allies the Navy and Air Force have, thats not exactly a small hurdle.

While its one military, each service is their own fiefdom, and de-facto intra-service transferring of manpower like you suggest just wont happen.

[Career Prole]

15. I won't attack you for that. Makes good sense.

I know they'll find another excuse should that one vanish, but until it does that's what they'll cling to.

[lastliberalintexas]

26. I ask them every chance I get

Granted, I'm not the President or the local republican party chair, but I remind local republicans all the time about our recruiting/enlistment shortages. I've handed out enlistment forms personally. I've offered to take them to the recruiter's office myself. I've told them all they have to do is call 1-800-Go-ARMY (nice nifty and easy to remember number, isn't it?). And so far I'm batting 0 for.

I understand what you're saying, and it is just one more reason to damn this administration. However, these people by golly know that we need more bodies in Iraq- they're just too scared to go themselves. Too scared, and too "privileged". There really is a sense of entitlement among so many of these republicans- war and any other menial work is for the underlings of our society, and that certainly doesn't include them.

But mostly it's just plain old fashioned fear.

[insane_cratic_gal]

7. They can't pass the ASVAB

[meganmonkey]

8. In their own words:

(from an article aptly titled 'Generation Chickenhawk')

By the time I encountered Cory Bray, a towering senior from the University of Pennsylvania's Wharton School of Business, the beer was flowing freely. "The people opposed to the war aren't putting their asses on the line," Bray boomed from beside the bar. Then why isn't he putting his ass on the line? "I'm not putting my ass on the line because I had the opportunity to go to the number-one business school in the country," he declared, his voice rising in defensive anger, "and I wasn't going to pass that up."

----

When I broached the issue of Iraq, he replied, "I support our country. I support our troops." So why isn't he there?
"I know that I'm going to be better staying here and working to convince people why we're there ," Hauser explained, pausing in thought. "I'm a fighter, but with words."

---
"This isn't an invasion of Iraq, it's a liberation--as David Horowitz said." When I asked him why he was staying on campus rather than fighting the good fight, he rubbed his shoulder and described a nagging football injury from high school. Plus, his parents didn't want him to go. "They're old hippies," Kelley said.




http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20050711&s=blumenthal

[Toots]

9. In all seriousness I believe they are following the lead of their leaders

Chickenhawks seem to be the majority of GOP elected officials and if it is good enough for them then it is good enough for their followers. Besides Americans are not very brave people. That fact is demonstrated by the large amount of guns in America. Why would you need a gun unless you were afraid of something or someone unless you hunt. AK-47s are not what I would consider a hunting weapon and neither are 25 cal pistols or even 38 cal pistols or nine MM. They are strictly for protection because people are afraid. Our Corporate Media has made people feel this way by sensationalizing the horrable acts that occur sometimes and make them seem common place. America is certainly not the home of the brave although there are indeed a few brave individuals living here. Most are scared of their shadow.

[Dhalgren]

12. You are absolutely right!

[ElectroPrincess]

13. Don't you also believe ...

since the Vietnam Fiasco was not that long ago, that those of us who REMEMBER, will *make sure* these goals are NOT met? I hope sooner rather than later, there is a manpower crisis.

It's only when the uber-wealthy and connected politicians have to face the fact that THEIR children may have to fight in the Oil Wars, will we see ANY JUSTICE.

There is no ONE Nation called *The Republic of Terrorism* because it is has many sources. The common theme is that the people who sign on are made to believe that they are oppressed. How to the recruiters pull it off? Pure and simple answer: The line recruits (not necessarily their leaders) come from areas that breed nothing but poverty and destitution.

Consider the following: If your entire family is slowly starving to death or barely eeks by, what does it matter? - Learned hopelessness - destitution - unemployment? In comes a recruiter promising that you will honor your family and be a hero. When there's no hope, there's also no sense and no feeling.

Someone mentioned that we need to put the Iraqis to work instead of shipping in labor from places like the Philippines and China. That's an excellent idea and could still work. But it would only happen under a thoughtful leader (Kerry, Clark) and NOT EVER under the United States of Bush Co, Inc.

We must impeach or force out of office the entire Executive Branch - if we ever hope to realize a successful scenario for our Soldiers returning home ... and for the welfare of the Iraqi people in general.

[Iowa]

22. ElectroPrincess nailed it...

Excellent points - as usual.

[ElectroPrincess]

23. Thanks Much :-)

And may I say your input is also a sheer delight. ;)

[burrowowl]

29. And the sheep said:

BAA! BAA! BAAD!

[ElectroPrincess]

16. The President may not be pushing but the Army is "out there"

very active in our community. Although mine is a proud military family, my daughter knows not to enlist. She's gone with me on an anti-war march where we were honored to march along side a number of Combat Veterans.

We honor the military, but will not serve as long as George W. Bush is President.

I want us to be successful in Iraq ... rebuilding ... with their help. But now it seems like all the profits fall all under USA Corporate Company Control (Designated by Dick Cheney, et. al.) vice Iraqi Leadership (and employments).

Unless the situation changes to hand over some of the profiteering over to the Iraqi People (many Engineers), we don't stand a chance with regard to winning the hearts and minds within THEIR country.

[Joey Liberal]

17. Blue to Green is a Joke

Did the Bush cartel really believe that Sailors and Airmen would line up to transfer to the Army? LOL!

[Ezlivin]

25. No kidding

When I was in the Navy, they allowed a couple of guys off my boat (submarine) to serve some time aboard an aircraft carrier. Even that culture shift was too much.

Nothing against the Army or the Marines, but there is no way in hell most sailors want to switch places. Killing people when they are just blips on the screen is way easier than killing them while looking them in the eyes. After intense combat it is the "grunt" who bears the most psychological damage.

[Joey Liberal]

28. You are correct

I was in the Army. A Sailor or Airman would have to be seriously crazy to want to transfer to the Army.

[DinahMoeHum]

18. This is exactly what I worried about a few weeks ago. . .

The Navy and Air Force apparently are not having the same recruiting problems as the Army and the Marines.

I've long suspected that in order to get around the politically-loaded question of whether to have a draft, Rumsfeld and the Pentagon will simply conscript some MOS's from the Air Force and Navy, give them a few weeks firearms training, and ship THEM out to Iraq.

Wouldn't it put it past them.


:nuke:

[ElectroPrincess]

24. I don't think that they can do that legally? ... change an individual's

Branch of Service? Even under stringent military guidelines, I don't know of this ever happening.

Today it would favor: Navy--->Army or AF--->Army

But I'm far away from all-knowing. Anyone know of someone being FORCED to change their Branch of Service?

[Spinzonner]

27. Seem more likely that certain jobs might be tasked to units of the AF or N

and that could free Army personnel to be retrained for combat roles.

Can AF or Navy personnel or units be put under command of another service ?

[Dolomite]

20. If you're leaving one job, why not get a raise at the next one?

Hmmm, get out of the Navy now making (as a Petty Officer 2nd Class for example) $2,205.30 a month and join the Army making the same - OR - take my security clearance, technical training, and boatload of experience and land an IT job with KRB in the Middle East making $95K a year tax free?

Hmmm... Hmmm...

[rodeodance]

21. maybe more will come on board now that Jr claims it is a 'calling'

[KitSileya]

30. My ex moved the other way....

He left the army voting with his feet in disgust after a training exercise where the top brass let one of his guys die because they were more interested in gaining another star than with the welfare of their men. (This was pre-2001.) A couple of years later he joined the Air Force (still pre-2001) and is much happier. Of course, he does have to explain his leftie socialist ex every time he renews his security clearance. }(

I guess the army is getting desperate for cannon fodder. Hopefully, most of the guys in blue are too smart to leave their relatively safe service branches for a seat in a patched-up humvee on a bomb-strewn road in Iraq.