Shiites take to the streets of Baghdad's Sadr City (10,000 & some armed)

[NNN0LHI]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/afp/20031010/wl_mideast_afp/iraq_shiite_cleric&cid=1514&ncid=1473

BAGHDAD (AFP) - More than 10,000 people shouted no to America in the squalid district of Sadr City before the funeral procession of two Shiites killed in a firefight a day earlier with coalition soldiers.

"Yes to the martyrs, no to America, no to the Governing Council," prayergoers roared Friday as the two coffins of the dead were held aloft before the outdoor crowd by the offices of young nationalist Shiite cleric Moqtada Sadr.

The funeral procession then spilled into the street carrying the two coffins, draped in black, and yelling: "There is no God but Allah. America is the enemy of God.

"No, No to Israel"

Dozens of armed men marched in formation.

more

[IndianaGreen]

1. Everything is going according to the most dire predictions

about a post-Saddam Iraq that were made before Bush's invasion. Iraqis are united in their opposition to US colonialism and occupation. Iraqis are fighting for their freedom.

US out of Iraq NOW! End the Occupation NOW!

[DemCam]

2. And all we have is Kobe?

[0007]

9. We have Wonder Women

Kobe Kobe he's our man
if he can't do it, junior can

junior junior he's our man
if he can't do it, Dickie can

Dickie Dickie is our man
if he can't do it, -

Condoleezza Rice can

[CarinKaryn]

3. Well who could complain about them being armed?

We let our nutcase militias carry machine guns. And we just "liberated" their country so shouldn't they have the same rights as rich white wanna-bes?

[demdave]

4. There is no God but Allah....

Sorry, fundamentalists on all sides are dangerous. You can have a religion that says "we believe in one God" but you can not have the religion that says "you heve to believe in one God or we kill you". Any religion that orders the death of an author because he wrote something they interpreted to be derogetory of their God is not allowed.

[lumpy]

5. Then the Christian religion should not be 'allowed'

Plenty of so-called Christians (leaders included) call for the deaths of those rag-head Muslims.

[demdave]

6. Show me a Christian religion that puts out death warrants

and I will agree.

P.S. you do realise there are several reigions under the "Christian" umbrella, don't you. I would hesitate to call you hateful of all Christianity simply because you are ignorant.

[FlemingsGhost]

10. The Spanish Inquisition. Puritan witch burnings.

I would hesitate to call you ignorant, just because you are forgetful.

(edited for clarity)

P.S. Speaking of forgetfullness, I think a French woman named Joan, had a warrant put out on her. Right before they burned her alive.

[No Passaran]

13. or maybe he's just ignorant

[demdave]

17. I am not ignorant of history, I also recognise change in religions.

You should try it. The Catholic church has shanged mightily in the last millenium, give or take a few centuries. Funny your view of it hasn't.


Let's try to discuss current affairs.

[demdave]

14. Shall we get back into the timemachine and enter the 21st century???

[FlemingsGhost]

18. That's your rebuttal?

Fair enough, you win demdave.

[demdave]

20. My rebuttal is below on your other post

[0007]

21. Listen dimdave,

Not a goddamn thing has changed in the last 5000 years so don't talk about silly timemachines, 'eh?

[demdave]

22. You are wrong. Everything changed when the Catholic church

lost control as a supreme political party and became a religion again. There is nothing but trouble that can come from the actual religion running a country.

[No Passaran]

30. you're right

...now I know. Muslim priests should start raping young boys. Then they will be on the same level with Catholic chruch.

[demdave]

32. Nice attempt at a redirect.....not

[No Passaran]

11. I don't know...

I'm not very religious but I do remember "reading about something called Spanish Inquisitions". Or maybe I was wrong. Or didn't we all read about something regarding one baptist minister calling Islam "evil" and some references to a rat.

[0007]

16. What country do you live in?

And what religion were the crusades in the 11th 12th and 13th centuries to recover the so-called Holy Land from the Moslems? And who got their butts kicked?

[demdave]

19. Once again, let's try to keep up...this is 2003. Shall we discuss current

events, or do you really think there is still an active Spanish Inquisition going on? The best you can do is to go back at least 700 years? Nice try, but well below the mark.

[fishnfla]

23. Eric Rudolph and the Christian Identity sect

Or is that ancient history too?

[demdave]

28. Sounds fairly recent. Do they advocate killing non-followers?

If so they should be forcibly disbanded. There is no room for any religion like that. Are they a Christian religion? I am guessing here, but you did offer them up as proof, Yes. Are there numerous Christian religions? Yes. I fail to see how a relatively small group of crazies equates to the damning of an entire branch of thought. By that reasoning, all Islamic faiths could be grouped as one. I don't think that is fair. Splinter groups and crazies do not define the majority.

[fishnfla]

37. Well since he actually killed people

I think its germaine. Since this killer was sheltered by others who shared his beliefs, he is not alone obviously

[demdave]

39. A killer, and those that shelter him, should pay the price as dictated by

law. How did he become the leader of all Christian religions in your mind?

[0007]

26. Can you say "crusade" dimdave?

Even junior sez it is a crusade. I said nothing has changed in the last 5000 years, what's this crap about 700 years. Anything below your mark is high, 'eh?

Ignorant is not knowing, so I'll mark it up, LOL!!

[demdave]

33. Ahhhh, cutest name calling, you must be losing the discussion

What is your next debating technique, invoking Hitler in some fashion. Thanks for playing.

[lumpy]

25. A death warrant doesn't have to be spelled

out in black and white and written down on a piece of paper. Death warrants can be called for by verbal communication, innuendo and verbal war against other religions.

[demdave]

29. But when the are spelled out I take them at their word.

Let's try to take care of the obvious written death threats before we after the infered ones. And a verbal war really doesn't count, now does it. If you are not calling for my death, you can call me names all you want.

[FlemingsGhost]

7. God's name is invoked by every warring culture.

Has been since the dawn of man.

[demdave]

12. True, that is why the Spanish Inquisition is infamous, and exstinct.

Religions with these tenets, join or die, have no place in the modern world. Anyone who chants "Death to the infidels" have no place either. If your religion cannot peacefully coexist with the others, it should be forcibly disband. There is a difference between not believing in anothers religious beliefs and actively advocating the death of disbelievers.

[No Passaran]

27. yeah...

...maybe they should start shouting "death to pro-choice".

Eric Rudolph anyone?

[demdave]

31. If what you say is true, he needs to be locked up and his group scattered

Does anyone in here read what others post??????

[0007]

34. Yeah that's why all those secret societies

run around killing folks in the name of religion, like the Ku Klux Klan, just to name one. The Klan does it in the name of Jesus Christ as many other do. These are good christian folks, 'eh dave?

[demdave]

35. Nope, crazies and fringe that should be tracked down and caged

like the animals they are. I also believe in the death penalty, so I would go so far as to say executed if the crime rises to that level. Good Christians???? Hardly.


Any other strawmen or is that hay wagon empty now?

[0007]

36. Your changing your tune now, 'eh?

A few post ago you were saying it didn't breathe. LOL!

Like I said before nothing has changed in the last 5000 years.

[demdave]

38. Didn't breathe, your being a bit too esoteric for me.

What doesn't breath? Bigots? Crazed religious zealots? Evil people who hide behind religions? Of course they do, and I advocate dealing with them severly, what I don't believe in is letting them define a religion that has several differing components..such as Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran...... all Christian, all different, none defined by the KKK.


Gotta go, I'll check back later. Nice discussing this with you. And remember, always revert to name calling early, it has worked so well for us in the last 3 elections.

[0007]

40. ....and advocate dealing with them severly?

LOL! I have no more time for you kid, you just don't get it. Find someone else to give your two for a nickle and one for a dime crap too. Your starting to get nasty.

Hasta la vista,

[demdave]

47. Nasty? Never. How could I? Remember I am "dimdave". lolol

Nave a nice weekend.

[LevChernyi]

42. Muslims never did that

That was strictly a Christian fetish.

Islam is the only one of the big three Abrahamic's that actually doesn't allow you to off any of the other adherents just for being of a different confession.

Check Freerepublic.com when they freak out about Muslims and watch them issue their fatwas...or stay here and listen to yourself get worked into a lather about something you are quite clearly either ignorant about or have an irrational fear of.

[demdave]

46. No lather here, no fear either. If you follow the thread

you will see that the only position I am taking is against loonies and fringe that call for killings for such things as being an unbeliever, or say defaming their God. I have never and will never belief that this is a root idea in and of the "big three". I was simply pointing out that all faiths have to deal with those that try to label their entire belief system as evil because of the actions of the fringe groups.


P.S. which post did it sound like I got worked into a lather? I have been called "dimdave" and dismissed for poor spelling, but I simply took that as a sign that that person was running out of a reasonable arguement in this discussion. That is usually what some people do when they can no longer defend their point of view, or get an emotional rise out of the other person.

[LevChernyi]

48. this is what you said..

You can have a religion that says "we believe in one God" but you can not have the religion that says "you heve to believe in one God or we kill you".

Since this article has nothing to do with anything like that and it was just you popping off about something that occurs primarily in your imagination, forgive me for misunderstanding :eyes:

[Snellius]

8. NYT: Shiite Outrage Heightens Fears of Danger to Americans

BAGHDAD, Iraq, Oct. 10 — Shiite anger against Americans spilled over into Friday prayers in Sadr City, the Baghdad slum where two Iraqis and two American soldiers were killed in separate incidents on Thursday. The violence and subsequent public outrage raised fears of new dangers to American forces in the form of angry followers of Muqtada al Sadr, a young anti-American cleric.

A throng of perhaps 10,000 gathered to pay their respects to the two Shiites they believe were killed by American forces the night before. "No, no, to America!" they chanted as wooden coffins holding the remains of the "martyrs" were paraded along a main street. The neighborhood of some two million people used to be called Saddam City but was renamed named in part after Mr. Sadr's father, a popular cleric who was assassinated in 1999, on Mr. Hussein's orders, many believe.

Sheik Abdul-Hadi al-Daraji, an aide to Mr. Sadr, delivered the sermon today and issued a defiant demand: that no American soldiers be allowed inside Sadr City.

"America, which calls itself the supporter of democracy, is nothing but a big terrorist organization that is leading the world with its terrorism and arrogance," he said.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/10/international/middleeast/10CND-IRAQ.html?hp

[tlcandie]

15. Religious fundamentalist .. ahhh k, but one who certainly has the

truth and this cabal down!!!

<snip>
America, which calls itself the supporter of democracy, is nothing but a big terrorist organization that is leading the world with its terrorism and arrogance," he said.
<snip>

[Mokito]

24. Sorry to say,

but this man may be wiser than the average American with schooling.

[NNN0LHI]

41. All this arguing about religion is meaningless

The question is who attacked who here? Who was the aggressor? It sure wasn't these Shiites who attacked America. We invaded and are occupying their country. Forget the rest of this religion crap. That is completely inconsequential compared to what we have already done and continue to do to these people.

Don

[FlemingsGhost]

43. Thanks, Don.

The story here, is that thousands of angry Shiites are marching against U.S. occupation.

(That's why I stopped "feeding the animals" after three posts.)

[NNN0LHI]

44. Here are the questions I keep asking myself

What would you do Don, if you had to go through any of the hundreds of checkpoints, manned by foreign troops, to get anywhere in your own country? Or woke up one day and realized you were living under the rule of the gun by foreigners?

I know what I would do.

Don

[FlemingsGhost]

45. I'd be right by your side.

er.... flank.