Multiple explosions rock London - THREAD #2

[OKNancy]

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.tube/index.html


Multiple explosions rock London
Initial reports say at least two deaths

Thursday, July 7, 2005 Posted: 1046 GMT (1846 HKT)


Injured passengers are led away from Edgware Road Tube Station.RELATED
• Timeline: Blasts across London
• Eyewitnesses tell of subway horror


London
Emergency Planning
Great Britain
or Create Your Own
LONDON, England (CNN) -- Near simultaneous explosions rocked the London Underground network and at least one bus at the morning rush hour, police said, causing fatalities and prompting officials to shut down the entire underground transport network.

In the first report of casualties, City of London police told CNN there had been two fatalities at Aldgate east station.

The explosions came a day after London was awarded the 2012 Olympics and as the G8 summit was getting under way in Scotland. Initial reports blamed a power surge, but officials were not ruling out a terrorist attack.

"There have been a number of dreadful incidents across London today," said Home Secretary Charles Clarke, Britain's top law enforcement officer. He said there were "terrible injuries."

Metropolitan Police Commissioner Ian Blair said London had been hit by at least six blasts and there had been many casualties. He urged Londoners not to panic and said it was too early to say what caused the blasts.

------------------------
Here is thread #1 for those who want to catch up or to read how this story developed:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1609191

[Solly Mack]

1. Blair to speak any moment now

[Solly Mack]

10. Blair looks upset

Unlike Bush did when the WTC was attacked.

[maddezmom]

18. agree

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. Blair looked and acted like a normal human being

in contrast to Bu$h on 9-11 who acted like a cold hearted twit who didn't have a clue.

At least Blair can speak off the cuff and didn't waste valuable time waiting for his handlers to prepare a statement for him.

[Solly Mack]

37. "looked and acted human"

You're right. You don't exactly get human reactions with Bush.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

88. "Speak off the cuff"? You mean with that earpiece in his ear?

[jmc777]

90. I posted a comment like this elsewhere...

....I thought it was quite obvious today when he gave his press briefing.

[ClintonTyree]

60. Blair didn't hide either....

unlike our pretzelnit who flew around the country until he could find a good place to hide for a while. Well, he DID have to talk to those who are REALLY in charge before he could take any action. He was a confused and scared little boy at that time.
Blair acted like a man anyway.

[Centered]

190. I wouldn't say hide

I think in times of potential injurty/death to the president doesn't the Secret Service take over at that point and the pres just goes where they tell him to go... not sure but I thought there were protocols to follow for national emergency.

Can anyone clarify?

[earth mom]

218. Let's see...On 9/11 * sat there for 7 minutes...then he & Cheney hid out

while the rest of the country fell apart. Shouldn't our so called leaders be there for the people they are supposed to lead?!

Not to mention that in hindsight it looks like the whole thing was LIHOP or MIHOP which makes their actions even more chickensh*t.

What is there to clarify?

[lonestarnot]

240. Yes clarify...hiding to finish my pet goat!

[Tesha]

103. That's what he gets for repeatedly kneeling down in front of Bush.

No thanks from Bush and bombs from Al Qaida.

Tesha

[leesa]

145. Please don't jump to the conclusion that it was Al Qaida. BushCo

has a great deal of interest in having something like this happen and they've done it before.

[youspeakmylanguage]

196. Thanks, Tesha and leesa...

In a time of tragic crisis, let's make DU look as unfeeling and paranoid as we possibly can.

So this is Blair's fault AND it was probably BUSH that planted the bombs?

With folks like you two, who needs enemies?

[Chrisduhfur]

248. Agreed.

Stuff like that just makes DU look bad. That is actually how I discovered DU, someone was posting links about some very ridiculous things that were said. After being here for awhile though I have realized that isn't the general feeling among most, and only a handful actually come up with such crazy things.

[proud2BlibKansan]

202. MSNBC

is blaming Al Qaida.

[Centered]

197. Shame on you

I hope you are willing to back that up by personally sitting with every family affected by this and tell them they deserved it.

You should be ashamed, this is a terrible thing to happen.

[Pert_UK]

2. Aldgate hospital - 10 seriously injured, 7 more criticial. Lots of minor.

P.

[proud2BlibKansan]

206. My sister is in London

OMG I hope my mom isn't freaking out. I tried to call my sister but the lines must be down or too jammed.

I have to go to work. Damn.

[RevolutionStartsNow]

219. Mine too

I got a message that she was okay, not actually in London today.

Hope your sister is okay.

[proud2BlibKansan]

225. Thanks

haven't heard anything yet.

Glad your sister is okay.

[Pert_UK]

3. Scotland Yard now saying 7 blasts. Blair to speak any second. PICS

All from BBC.

P.

[achtung_circus]

4. Tony Blair on now nt

will return to London

[PaulaFarrell]

58. unlike bush

who was too scared to go to New york

[maddezmom]

5. Blair: Obviously Terroist attacks..he's leaving the G-8 and then returning

[Pert_UK]

6. Blaire will leave G8 for London in 2 hours, return tonight. Discussions...

will continue in his absence.

"All leaders share our complete resolution to defeat this terrorism."

[OKNancy]

7. Banner at the top of CNN-international page

BREAKING NEWS AP: Police find indications of explosives at scene of one of a series of blasts in London, London's police chief says.

[ticapnews]

8. Blair returning to London for the day...

says G-8 should continue without him.

Says "It's reasonably clear that there have been a series of terrorist attacks in London."

[Bluebear]

9. Blair is shaken . . .

Not reassuring, imho.

[Solly Mack]

12. I agree. He wasn't very reassuring - but he did seem more upset than

Bush was in 2001.

[truthisfreedom]

13. bushian? that was an earpiece speech. he paused every few seconds to get

a new line fed to him. that's why it reminded you of bush.

[Nihil]

19. No

Whilst it goes against the grain to defend Blair, this is crap.
Blair does not need a Rove in the background to make a speech.
He can learn his lines and deliver them as well as any actor but
I don't think this was an act.

[Vladimir]

Bliar is a very good public speaker

You are right, this was no "earpiece speech".

[TroglodyteScholar]

42. Very good?

I'd say he's a passable speaker, but he stutters quite a bit even when the pressure's not on.

[Vladimir]

48. Really? I don't find that to be the case

but I mostly hear him on PMQs. Like i say, give that devil his props... Blair's ability to control a crowd and convince people of his sincerity is near-legendary, its why so many people still can't bring themselves to think that he lied intentionally over Iraq.

[TroglodyteScholar]

65. Well, and I didn't consider the context...

Compared with Our Great Leader, Blair is Cicero...

[rman]

187. You're right; he's well trained.

-

[davepc]

23. okey dokey

:tinfoilhat:

[theearthisround]

27. Agreed, I got the same impression

The stuttering, the long pauses, the incongruence with what he said with his body language, looking down right, (people look down and right when theyre listing to their internal dialog, same applies to being fed lines). It was rather obvious to be honest.

[alcibiades_mystery]

59. Nonsense...Blair is an incredible speaker

He paused because he was clearly moved and upset, and for rhetorical effect at some places. Earpiece my ass. Get out of your basement once in a while.

PS: I despise Blair, but won't beat him up today.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

84. Oh, please. This is one of the two major architects of the illegal,...

...and immoral, invasion and occupation of Iraq.

Give him a break? Not very likely.

[alcibiades_mystery]

111. Do whatever you want

Act like an imbecile if you please. It worries me not a bit. I will register a counter-point on this board however, if only to reassure readers that we're not all raving lunatics.

[BooScout]

87. Oh BS.....

As much as I dislike Blair I am the first to admit he is an excellent public speaker (as are most MPs IMHO). Contrary to our resident fool in charge....Blair can think and speak at the same time......Bush can't even do one well.

[Benhurst]

130. There's not a backbencher in Parliament who can't outperform

Bush*.

[BooScout]

171. Agreed.....

But then again....there's not a a Bichon Frise that can't outperform Bush either. God what a dolt we have for our fearless leader. *sigh*

[pointless]

15. give him a break for now

his country has just been attacked by terrorists. Of course he's gonna be shaken at the moment. What matters is how he handles it later.

[Bluebear]

21. No, what matters is how he handled it BEFORE!

He hitched his fortunes onto a dark star, imho.

[fujiyama]

29. I will NOT give him a break

His war is a possible cause for these attacks.

By chasing phantom WMDs, Blair and Bush obviously ignored the real threat of terror.

This attack destroys their credibility and the whole idea of "we don't have to fight them abroad so we don't have to fight them at home".

[Bluebear]

33. Indeed.

[pokercat999]

62. Exactly. The enemy in this "war" has no

F-15 or bunker buster bombs so they use what is at hand. The fact that they can infiltrate and attack at will should give us pause. As I see it we have two choices in this business. We can try to find a peaceful solution to our "problems" or we can kill them all...and I mean all. Anything in the middle will just serve to continue the violence and perpetuate the "war", which maybe just what a lot of our "leaders" want. Certainly a large part of the industrial-political complex reaps huge rewards from these actions. My suggestion is to turn the other cheek, end all combat operations world wide and start to do what ever is necessary to bring peace to the world. Instead of flooding the world with bombs I suggest we flood the world with food. Peace, by whatever means necessary.

[goclark]

198. I agree with your words

Until we have leaders that are not cowboys we are all doomed.

It is not WE against THEM.

WE are all in this world together.

I am part American Indian so I come from a background that allows me to be sensitive to the " We are cowboys, YOU Indians are bad people" concept.

Cowboys and Indians need to be all on the same page.

As Rodney King said, "Can't we All Get Along?"

[MadisonProgressive]

203. Kill them all?

Who are 'they' and where are 'they'? And 'who' will they be tomorrow?

[Name removed]

213. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[earth mom]

233. You have GOT to be kidding me!

:eyes:

[Sterling]

243. Kill them all is what will happen eventually.

This is not Vietnam in the sense that failure will not be an option to the people who started this war.

If these attacks are indeed ME Extremists and not some sort of false flag op and they continue and escalate it's a safe bet that the death machine will be ratcheted up by the western powers.

At some point it will be a life and death struggle and we will all be forced into taking sides or be victims of the situation.

It is my belief that 9-11 was an inside job and that many of the attacks since then have been false flag ops. SInce no one is actually looking into these possibilities it looks like the war of the worlds will continue and at a certain point it will no longer matter who started it it will just be a matter of who will prevail.

[adigal]

66. Agreed - and the tried to blame it on the G8 summit

Liars, all, he and Bush.

[BooScout]

120. More than likely.....

....It is probably due in part to the G8 Summit actually. A G8 meeting always gets incredible world press. It's not unfathomable that a terrorist group would not seek to take advantage of it.

Not to mention........I wonder how many constables they have pulled out of London to provide secutrity in Scotland. I would wager that police are a bit shorthanded right now.

[CJCRANE]

46. Exactly

he's not gonna go on and be all bright and chirpy and well-spoken.

[Bluebear]

51. No but he acted like he just lost his job or something.

Oh, maybe he did!

[Media_Lies_Daily]

73. Piss on him.

[enough already]

102. No breaks

His country was attacked because he's a war criminal along with Bush. He brought this on himself.

[theearthisround]

17. He seemed to talk as if he had an ear piece

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. He looked like someone who was making it up has he goes along

which is what I would expect under the circumstances.

You have to walk a thin line under such circumstances and have to be careful of every word you say. Blair doesn't need a earpiece.

[theearthisround]

63. If you expect something you filter information based off your expectations

I study psychology, behavior, neuro-linguistic programming etc. I can say without doubt he had an ear piece and was being fed lines.

His body language was incongruent with the words coming out of his mouth. He didn't act as if he was talking for himself, formulating his own thoughts, expressing himself. When people are formulating thoughts they act the thoughts out. Blair's body language was congruent with someone who was "waiting" for his next line (ear piece). For example he was looking down right during his long pauses, most people look down and right when their experiencing internal dialog, the same applies to being fed lines in an ear piece. It was rather obvious, just watch it again without any expectations.

[Name removed]

85. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Nihil]

140. ?!?!?!

*SOME* of us are paying attention to what is going on and not to the
"voices in our heads* ...

> Maybe you should back away from the keyboard and let the grown-ups talk.

What was that comment about being "more intent on insulting someone"?

The reason I posted my (admittedly unsubtle) response was to bring
a more grown-up perspective to the looneytunes posts about "Blair
wearing a wire".

[0007]

118. Get real man, the poster just watched Blair......

You have a problem?

[Nihil]

133. Yes

I have a problem that even though I can't stand the man, I find myself
defending Blair against complete nonsense posts like that one.

The poster I was responding to has put the same statement several times
without any evidence. I have watched Blair many, many times - probably
more than you or the poster but that's by the by - and he was not acting
significantly different this time than under the other high stress
situations. Let's face it, this is probably the highest stress speech
he has ever had to make.

Just because your president is incapable of stringing three words in
a coherent phrase doesn't mean that all world leaders are that dumb.
Blair is a shit, a warmongering, slimy, self-serving shit but he has
absolutely no need of a Rove-like puppetmaster.

That's my problem.

[0007]

161. Your point is well taken and perhaps I was a bit rash...

Peace

[Nihil]

176. Me too

If I'd slowed down and posted the same information above then not only
would it have avoided deletion but wouldn't have ratholed the thread.

Sorry Mods and fellow DUers.

[blondeatlast]

193. I'm with you, for God's sake, his city is under attack, al-Qaeda is

claiming responsibility, there is no end in sight, and threats of similar attacks in other countries--AND WE'RE QUIBBLING ABOUT WHETHER HE'S A GREAT PUBLIC SPEAKER?

He went back to his country in a time of crisis and is showing more leadership already than Bush has in his entirety since 9/11.

And FWIW, I DESPISE Blair as a general rule.

Lord knows I love DU, but sometimes it needs therapy--desperately.

[JoFerret]

165. Having an earpiece does not necessarily mean that

you are being fed lines. It CAN mean that you are receieving updates and responding to them.

[liberalnurse]

20. He really was shaken!

Visibly shocked.

[undeterred]

228. I agree liberalnurse

I thought he was fighting to keep his emotions under control.

[Roland99]

44. Looked like he wanted to mutter under his breath, "F*ck you, *"

[Cascadian]

11. Blair looks a little shaken.

I just watched the statement and he looks like he was about to lose it at one point.


John

[Algorem]

14. He'll always be Bliar to me.

We'll always have Iraq,Tony Baloney.

[MetaTrope]

16. And the world is safer...

:eyes:

[Mr Creosote]

25. BBC quoting unconfirmed police reports

bomb on Tavistock Square bus was the work of a suicide bomber.

[ticapnews]

22. More from Blair

"It is important that those engaged in terrorism understand that our determination to defend our values and our way of life is greater than their determination to cause death and destruction to innocent people in a desire to impose extremism on the world. Whatever they do, it is our determination that they will never succeed in destroying what we hold dear in this country and in other civilized nations around the world."

edited: typo

[Pert_UK]

24. BBC international monitoring says Al-Qaeda has claimed responsibility

Very early days yet, but an Arabic website has a 200 word statement claiming responsibility, but BBC are looking into verifying it.

As they point out, this would be a very small attack by AQ's standards - lots of disruption, sure, but they usually try to kill shitloads of people.

[Cascadian]

26. The British people must pressure Blair to bring the UK troops home.

These attacks were clearly the result of Blair's willingness to take part in Bush's war in Iraq. What happened in Madrid last year has happened again in London today. I hope people in Britain take the opportunity to bring pressure to Blair's government and bring their troops home from Iraq. If he does not, then Labour should make an effort to remove him from 10 Downing Street.


John

[davepc]

34. Why would Labour remove their own PM from office?

[BooScout]

97. Because Gordon Brown would be....

...a far sight better than Tony. More would rally round Brown IMHO than Tony at this point.

[Almost_there]

36. Do you really think that's likely?

I can't imagine that attacks like this are going to get the average Brit scared to bring home the troops.. This is a war almost solely of Bush, and there is no way in hell that Blair will pull the troops for this. The coincidence of the G8 is obvious, its very coordinated, smacking of a Al Queda operation, anarchist ops are more individual and I think it is just the timing of G8 by AQ. Pulling the troops out of Iraq isn't happening from this.. it will broaden the divide, but, strengthen the resolve of hardline people on both sides.

[CJCRANE]

41. I would guess that

invading a country because of non-existant WMD that might be used in a hypothetical future terrorist attack has actually inspired the terrorism in the present.

[Guy_Montag]

28. Police unofficially saying that one of the buses was blown up by

a suicide bomber.

Not confirming it yet, but evidence suggests it is.

If confirmed "it is a hallmark of AQ"

BBC Five Live

[Pert_UK]

30. "People are still trapped at King's Cross"- London Ambulance Service

The LAS is launching a rescue operation there. Tube train stuck in a tunnel. Fatalities reported.

[applegrove]

31. Who says we can ignore the plight and social justice of people

anywhere in the world. We bullied and stole in the ME and it just made a perfect breading ground for monsters. And now we get the pain and the damage on our doorstep. People everywhere need a chance at making a living. Neocons and imperialists have done nothing but exacerbate the problems in the mid east for longer than I can been alive. We may have been willing to pay for $2 at the gas pump - but we will not pay for their hegemony like this!

To our British friends - you are in our thoughts. Whatever you need - we'll be there.

[gratuitous]

146. The poster applegrove speaks my mind

I wonder if the patent absurdity of the course the United States has chosen will be a little more recognizable for people, or if we'll keep doing the same thing over and over again, hoping for a different result?

[earth mom]

242. Isn't that the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same result.

And I agree with Applegrove also...

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Ambulance service say people still trapped at King's Cross

I've noticed that the BBC is showing the same pictures again and again. They're not giving us any live pictures at all.

[Pert_UK]

53. The Guardian website had a photo of a TV

Can't believe the Guardian could't do better than a poor flash photo of a Sky News broadcast shown on TV, with the reflection from the flash visible on the screen.....

[JoFerret]

167. How RICH do you think the Guardian is?

Crissakes you wallies.

[Matilda]

39. Sorry, all you Londoners here.

London was my home away from home, my husband's English, I'm feeling
very shaken. Although we knew it was just a matter of time.

[Warren Stupidity]

40. Predictable Consequences, not an excuse

The claim that our invasion and destruction of Iraq was intended to keep 'the war over there' has been exposed for the perfidious lie that it always was.

Before we get too outraged over this act of terrorism we need to reflect on the fact that we are responsible for the death of around 100,000 Iraqis, that just last week in Afghanistan we deliberately attacked civilians killing 17 of them, an act so clearly intended to do the damage it did that even the Cabal-friendly Afghani government lodged a public complaint. We cannot swagger around the globe flexing our vast military might, crushing all we view as 'the enemy' and causing vast 'collateral damage' without consequence.

The Cabal will of course use this dreadful incident to justify its current policies and to demand even more of the same. Will we, as we did four years ago, allow fear and bigotry to direct our response? Will we again say nothing, suppress dissent, ignore the obvious, and allow our own forces of darkness to escalate the violence?

Have we learned anything?

[CJCRANE]

56. Terrorism is wrong

but it's still predictable that there would be retaliation for the Iraq invasion (particularly since the WMD turned out to be non-existant and the "reconstruction" turned out to be an excuse to hand out duffle bags of cash to contractors).

[Warren Stupidity]

64. Is what we are doing terrorism?

I reject any assertion that we have the moral high ground here. We might have held that position on 9/12/2001 but we have long since demonstrated that we are just as depraved as the jihadist suicide bombers, just as willing to kill civilians, just as willing to cause wanton destruction to advance our cause, and to do so all the while claiming that God is on our side.

I see no major differences.

[truth2power]

249. Yes. What we are doing is terrorism. n/t

[pokercat999]

79. Terrorism IS wrong but....

lets put the shoe on the other foot. Let's say we are invaded by a far superior force, we have no modern military means to fight them what would our brave patriots do.....plant bombs. We have gone past right are wrong here we are in the, war as a way of life zone. A perpetual tit-for-tat. Our only hope is to eliminate the "leaders" of both sides by sending them to fight one another in glorious hand to hand combat. The picture of *ush in a fetal position on the ground crying for his mommy just flashed in my head.....never mind.

[onenote]

101. "brave patriots" my ass

don't plant bombs on commuter trains and buses so they can kill women and children.

Sorry. i agree that the Iraq war has made us less safe, and the London bombings are evidence of that. But it doesn't justify terror attacks that are aimed at innocent civilians.

onenote

[UKCynic]

246. Moral high ground

Is it 'better' to bomb innocent women and children from the air than to blow them up by a bomb on public transport? To us the 'heroes' of the American War of Independence were terrorists. This is bad, but not worse than what is too often perpetrated in the name of the citizens of the US and not only in Iraq.

[NorthernSpy]

135. but Iraqi anti-occupationists are *enemies* of Al Qaeda...

Please don't confuse the two. News reports have stated that there have been hostilities between the religious extremists (Al Qaeda) and the Iraqis who are most commonly referred to in our news as "the insurgents".

US delight as Iraqi rebels turn their guns on al-Qa'eda

Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country.

The reason, the US military believes, is frustration at the heavy-handed approach of the foreigners, who have kidnapped and assassinated local leaders and imposed a strict Islamic code.

Fighting, which could be clearly heard at night over the weekend, first broke out in May when as many as 50 mortar rounds were fired across the city. But, to the surprise of the American garrison, this time it was not the target.

(...)

Baghdad recently warned that Iraqi insurgents, many of them nationalists rather than Islamists, and al-Qa'eda cells were working more closely together than in the past. That was brought into doubt when the bodies of three foreigners, believed to be insurgents, were discovered in Ramadi, apparently killed by Iraqis.

[non sociopath skin]

81. Perhaps he should have been a little more specific about what was included

... in "over there."

The Skin

[sleipnir]

166. Odd how the recent discussions of Al-Quaida being a CIA "creation"

Especially odd, because most of the sources on the Al-Quaida "fabrication story" were British.

Perhaps now is not the time for tinfoil hats, but mourning. Though, the time for answers will soon be at hand and we must realize the evil that is behind both sides of the coin.

[ticapnews]

43. CBC (News World International) interviewing survivors...

and showing live footage from a helicopter over London.

[Cascadian]

45. I wonder what Monkey Boy is going to say this morning?

Has anybody heard if Bush is going to speak this morning?

John

[truthisfreedom]

50. with all of his bandages?

[stormmoon1978]

52. Not me but I'm sure he'll BS his way through this one

As for Blair, I felt so bad for him, especially at the end. He nearly broke down in tears... :(

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. Are you kidding?

He's probably flying around Scotland in AF1 waiting for the attacks to finish.

[leftchick]

57. Just heard on CNN, Yes the chimp will speak

I haven't heard when yet. I expected him to hightail it out of the UK. :eyes:

[MetaTrope]

69. Bush hightail it out of the UK?

Then he wouldn't have a chance to enjoy the carnage he financed...

[Moosepoop]

71. I imagine we'll hear from him

when he's finished crashing his bicycle into a pet goat.

[Up2Late]

47. Well, I hope the worst is over, need to sleep now

To Everyone in London: Good Luck and stay safe.:grouphug:

[Bluebear]

49. See you later U2L.

[UpInArms]

55. related: At least two killed, 90 injured in London explosions

http://english1.people.com.cn:80/200507/07/eng20050707_194703.html

At least two deaths and 90 casualties were confirmed in about six explosions that simultaneously rocked central London on Thursday morning, authorities said.

The two fatalities were reported in an explosion at London's Aldgate East underground station, police said.

"(We can) confirm there were two fatalities at Aldgate East station this morning," a police spokeswoman said.

Home Secretary Charles Clarke admitted "terrible injuries" caused by the blasts and police said there were at least 90 casualties.

...more...

[Roland99]

61. Terror Attack on London’s Underground

http://www.conjur.com/blog/2005/07/07/terror-attack-on-londons-underground/

It appears that up to seven Underground (London’s subway system) stops were targeted. Casualties galore (at least 90 reported at one station alone with two fatalities reported). This is all very preliminary but it’s obviously an orchestrated attack. Some of the stops included Liverpool, Aldgate, and Kings Cross. There are reports of people still trapped in the Tube and the national morning news shows keep showing looped footage of survivors receiving assistance.

Footage has also been shown of the top of one of London’s famous double-decker buses having been destroyed by an explosion.

Now, whether the attack was timed to coincide with the opening of the G8 today or whether Paris, London, Madrid, NYC, etc. were going to be hit one day after the announcement of the location of the 2012 Olympics is also unclear.

What is clear, though, is that the fvcking BS rhetoric from this admin that “America and the world are safer” is now completely and utterly without basis. Attacks like this will continue no matter what countries are invaded and no matter what sanctions are imposed upon others. There will always be a fringe element seeking to cause death and destruction.

Better security at home at ports, chemical plants, transportation hubs, trucking industry, etc. is what we need, not more bombs and bullets.

Here’s an early report from CNN:
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.tube/index.html

[liberaliraqvet26]

67. FAUX/SKY reporting "Homicide Bombers"

aboard buses

[Pert_UK]

68. Suicide, surely...?!?!?!

[lynne]

75. Homicide Bombers -

- is a term that is being used more frequently. While the bomber may commit suicide, his/her intent is to kill others - making it a homicide act.

Puts the focus on the victim in lieu of the bomber.

[Pert_UK]

82. Never heard of it before....seems redundant really......

Nearly all bombings are intended to take life - it's the fact that the bomber uses their own body as part of the weapon that makes suicide bombings different.

Who on earth decided to start calling it by a different name? It's not got into the UK media yet. Sounds like somebody being a bit "trendy" to me...

[Maeve]

92. It was a right-wing push that failed

Everywhere but Faux. Change the language, change the perception...very 1984.

Condolences to the people of London, especially following the elation of winning the 2012 Olympic bid yesterday.

more info--the attempt to change the language was biggest back in 2003; see this archived thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=220973

[Karmakaze]

174. Actually, its started with the Israeli's iirc...

The Israeli propaganda people started pushing it when the suicide bombings in Israel were at their peak. I believe they wanted to downplay the fact that the perpetrator was dead, in order to reduce the criticism of their revenge attacks.

You see, when the bomber is already dead, any attack you carry out after such a bombing can only be revenge based - it in no way punishes the bomber or prevents future bombings.

By downplaying the "suicide" angle they help keep the idea that IDF reprisals are about justice, rather than revenge, going.

[lynne]

99. Am listening to different news sources -

- on different TV's. UK journalists giving reports are using the term right now. Don't know when it started but it's been bantered around for a while.

Your point well taken, suicide is what makes the bomb different. Much like a Kamikaze pilot of WWII.

[NorthernSpy]

104. but aren't ALL bombers 'homicide bombers'?

I think that the term 'suicide bomber' is a useful one, because it marks a very specific subset of people who use bombs to terrorize and kill.

In previous eras, terrorist bombings were generally carried out in paramilitary fashion. Someone would set a bomb, and then leave the scene before it detonated. They idea was to keep doing such things for as long as possible until caught or killed. This modus operandi suggests a killer who is at least rational enough not to be overtly self-destructive. And this fact, in turn, suggests that a serious threat of retaliation or capture and punishment might deter him from acting.

Suicide bombing seems a somewhat different phenomenon. What separates the suicide bomber from the others is the frank, self-destructive irrationality of his method of murder. The suicide bomber's decision to die from his own lethal act suggests that deterring him from carrying out his plan will be difficult. That is the very salient fact that the term 'suicide bomber' is meant to convey.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

132. So you approve this phrasing?

Me, I think it's infantilic emotionally charged rhetoric.

[Pert_UK]

163. "infantilic" isn't a word, just for your info......

P.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

235. Give me a break. English is not my first language.

What would be the right word? Infantile?

[MadisonProgressive]

239. That's correct.

An you speak (or type) very good english. There are MANY Americans that know the language worse that you do!

[JNelson6563]

181. That's a meme Faux has been pushing

for ages. It seems to have only taken root with reich-wingers though.

Julie

[endarkenment]

207. homicide bombers is rightwing reframing bullshit

all bombs intended to kill are 'homicide bombs', all bombers intending to kill are 'homicide bombers'.

Suicide bombers are unnerving as they demonstrate a level of commitment to their cause that exceeds our comprehension. How can they be so dedicated to their cause, a cause which our leaders assure us is Evil?

In addition they are the poor-man's response to our high tech 'smart' weaponry. We brag about our 'smart' bombs that are able to 'see' their targets. Al qaida deploys its own version of smart bombs and presents us with a dilemma in what has become a war of attrition: we are spending at least $100,000, and probably more like $1,000,000 for every dollar they spend in this war. Yes they are paying a much higher price in lives lost, but they have a lot of lives to lose. A rational assesment might conclude that over the long term they are winning and we are losing.

[youspeakmylanguage]

241. Whatever...

How can they be so dedicated to their cause, a cause which our leaders assure us is Evil?

Any "cause" that employs fanatics to specifically target civilians for death and injury is barbaric and evil. Any civilized person doesn't need "leaders" to convince them of that.

[endarkenment]

245. So its all civiilized when the 100,000+ dead civilians are

collateral damage?

As you say: "whatever..."

[CottonBear]

244. 'Homicide Bomber' is a Faux News/Hannity/Boortz term not a DU term.

RW TV and talk radio uses this term as part of the Bu$hco propaganda efforts.

[NorthernSpy]

70. it's horrible! they've put masks over the faces of the wounded...

As in the picture in the Calgary Herald.

The rescuers have got these masks that have little punchouts for eyes, nose and mouth. They've put them over people's wounded faces as they lead them away from the scene.

With the woman in the picture, they've left the punchouts for the eyes in place. I hope that doesn't mean that she's lost her eyes.

:cry:

[QuettaKid]

74. Pic from the underground....

?v=0

[RawMaterials]

117. That guy looks just like me n/m

[Pert_UK]

86. I believe it's the best way to protect burns......

you need to prevent infection and these masks help that.

But I'm not a doctor (unlike several of my good friends in London).

[endarkenment]

234. why would there be burns?

perhaps a vwery few people would be close enough to the blast to be burned by it, but generally people are hit by the blast shock wave and the debris that goes with it and have all sorts of shrapnel type puncture wounds - i.e. they are bleeding profusely, or are crushed by falling stuff. I found the slide show on yahoo odd as well - lots of pictures of people with their faces wrapped in bandages but no signs of blood.

[blogslut]

72. "Obviously the act of terrorists because of the G8?"

That's what Blair is saying?

How can he say that with such unabashed confidence? How does he know that? I don't like this blame throwing so early in the game.

[MetaTrope]

80. Yeah, that sure worked for Aznar

:freak:

[Monkie]

94. that was the mistake the spanish government made

and the people punished them for it..

[praxiz]

76. AFP reports 50 people dead now.

[allemand]

77. Al-Qaida Claims Responsibilty for Explosions in British Capital

Al-Qaida has claimed responsibility for the series of blasts that shook central London during rush hour on Thursday morning. Blair has left the G8 meeting for the capital. At least two have been confirmed dead and scores injured in the seven blasts on the city's transportation system. (...)

The blasts, which were early on blamed on a possible power surge on the London grid, have now been claimed by the terrorist group al-Qaida according to a document posted on Web site often used by the group to announce attacks. A group calling itself "Secret Organization -- al Qaida in Europe" says it was responsible and says it was a reaction to British participation in military operations in Afghanistan and Iraq. The authenticity of the claim could not immediately be verified.

Arab sources who monitor al-Qaida have also said they believe the attacks are almost certainly the handiwork of Osama bin Laden's terrorist group.

More:
http://service.spiegel.de/cache/international/0,1518,364113,00.html

http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,490370,00.jpg

LONDON BOMBS: AL-QAEDA CLAIM EMERGES

London, 7 July (AKI) - A European-based militant group believed to be linked to the al-Qaeda network has said it was responsible for Thursday's multiple bomb attacks in Londoon. The Group of the Secret Organisation of al-Qaeda in Europe issued a brief statement posted on the Internet claiming responsibility for the blasts and warning Italy and Denmark to pull out their troops from Iraq or receive similar treatment. Authorities have yet to establish the message's credibility.

In the statement, the authors say that "an attack has been carried out against the British Zionist 'crusader' government in response to the massacres that have been carried out by Great Britain in Iraq and Afghanistan."

According to the statement "the Mujahadeen heroes have carried out a holy operation in London", saying that "the British people has been warned more than once and now we have kept our promise with a huge effort" which it said had taken lengthy preparations.

The statement concludes with warnings to two other European governments. "We are again warning the Danish goernment and the Italian government, along with all 'crusader' governments, that they will receive the same punishment for what is happening in Iraq and Afghanistan.
http://www.adnki.com/index_2Level.php?cat=Terrorism&loid=8.0.184776526&par=0

[rfranklin]

78. Al Qaeda number two man, Kar-el Al Roverer, claims credit...

George Bush responds by declaring martial law.

[Algorem]

93. Oh!They're a SECRET organization!I'm glad they pointed that out."Don't

bother looking us up in the phone book,we're secret ya know."Seems a little odd."Oh we're Al Quaida alright,you can believe that,but we're secret,see?It says so right here on this piece of paper,see.So all right?So all right."

[GiovanniC]

173. On NPR They Talked to a Counterterrorism Expert

Who had never heard of such a group before. But said that specific cells made up names for themselves sometimes. Personally, I think if you're gonna make up a name for your terrorist cell, you should pick something a little bit less dorky. Calling yourself the "Secret Organization" sounds like something you were part of in fourth grade.

[allemand]

107. Report: Islamic Group Claims London Blasts

CAIRO, Egypt — A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" has posted a claim of responsibility for the series of blasts in London, saying they were in retaliation for Britain's involvement in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The statement, which also threatened attacks in Italy and Denmark, was published on a Web site popular with Islamic militants, according to Elaph, a secular Arabic-language news Web site, and Der Spiegel magazine in Berlin, which both published the text on their Web sites.

"Rejoice, Islamic nation. Rejoice, Arab world. The time has come for vengeance against the Zionist crusader government of Britain in response to the massacres Britain committed in Iraq and Afghanistan," said the statement, which was translated by The Associated Press in Cairo.

The authenticity of the message could not be immediately confirmed. The Associated Press was unable to access the Web site where it was posted, which was closed quickly after the reports.

http://www.dailyadvance.com/news/content/shared-gen/ap/Middle_East/Britain_Explosions_Al_Qaida.html

[allemand]

127. More translation by BBC Monitoring:

The unverified claim, made on the Al-Qal`ah, Fortress, internet site, was posted by a group calling themselves the Secret Organisation Group of Al-Qa`ida of Jihad Organisation in Europe. (...)

The message went on: "In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and the dauntless fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God`s peace be upon him.

"O nation of Islam and nation of Arabism: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge from the British Zionist Crusader Government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan.

"The heroic mujahidin have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror, and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters."

More:
http://u.tv/newsroom/indepth.asp?id=62351&pt=n

[leftchick]

83. 'expert' on cnn: attacks are "Hallmark of Muslim Extremists"

excuse me? What about the fundie Christian extremists like Rudolph and McVey? These people are really pissing me off!

[JoFerret]

170. Not to mention the IRA

London civilians know the IRA very well.

[leftchick]

89. This guy on CNN is really a jerk

He is clueless and is supposedly an expert? Why not get Peter Bergen back?

[Domitan]

91. My heart goes out to the folks caught in middle of this chaotic carnage

Let us do what we can for the victims, and rally together. Stay strong and vigilant!

[Pert_UK]

96. Home Secretary speaking in House of Commons now, BBC1 n/t

[Mr Creosote]

98. Norfolk and Norwich hospital

more than 100 miles north of London are on MAJAX standby and getting ready to receive patients decanted from London hospitals when the casualties are brought in down there

[JoFerret]

172. It's a new state of the art facility

with capacity. Is probably why.

[corksean]

100. Some personal photos of the London bombing here

http://www.flickr.com/groups/74918957@N00/pool/

[ellie]

105. If you have BBC America,

Blair just spoke with idiot boy behind him.

[muriel_volestrangler]

106. Deaths now reported from Edgware Road

in addition to the ones at Aldgate.

[non sociopath skin]

110. Instinct tells me that the King's Cross one will be the bad one.

No updated news for quite some time.

This is bad, bad news, eh, Muriel?

The Skin

[Dead_Parrot]

122. I'm more worried about Moorgate/Liverpool St

Looks like they singled out the Golden Mile (Stock exchange area) for special attention...

[eowyn_of_rohan]

126. Weird...

Last time I was in London, 10 years ago, we were among those evacuated from Kings Cross station due to a bomb scare. Very scary to me, but the locals laughed it off, saying it happened all the time.

[Dead_Parrot]

152. Suspicious packages....

Given that the tube is a permanent state of paranoia about unattended bags, I have to wonder in the tube explosions may also have been suicide bombers (as the bus one seems to have been). That's a lot of unattended bags to leave lying around on trains...

[muriel_volestrangler]

128. Yes, I'm worried about the King's Cross one too

It seemed the one that it took longest to get news about.

[Bassic]

108. What is sad is that this is probably retaliation on the UK

for their part in the war. Sad that 20 people, most of which are likely to have been against said war had to pay with their lives.

So Blair gets attacked at home and his ally suddenly says he doesen't get anything in return for his help.

Go Tony....

:puke:

[shayes51]

109. I thought the war in Iraq was supposed to make us safer.

Obviously not. One more tragedy with no intelligent plan for dealing with terror.

[non sociopath skin]

114. Unfortunately, the right will try to make hay out of this.

"This is what we're fighting," "The enemy in our midst" etc etc ad nauseam.

And, of course, that's exactly what the perpetrators want. And so it goes on.

When will they ever learn?

The Skin

[Ilsa]

124. I wish they'd concede that Bush's WOT is a failure,

but we know those words will never cross their lips.

[malaise]

112. Anyone watching Bush as Blair speaks

Damn those eyes are blinking and slyly looking around the room. No wonder he fell off that bike.

[bklyncowgirl]

119. I did. I almost didn't recognize him.

He looked like someone sledgehammered him.

[confludemocrat]

232. yes, shrunken almost

Being anywhere near trouble makes him shrivel up or head in the opposite direction, the record shows that.

[SSX]

113. Please tell me the secret meeting is over

I read reports last week that a secret meeting was taking place in London to "carve up" Iraqi's oil interests. From an article in The London Line of June 23 (http://www.thelondonline.co.uk/theline/article.php?articleID=437) The meeting was taking place at the Paddington Hilton which is located at 146 Praed St. (which according to a street map of London is near corner of Edgware Rd, the location of one of the explosions).A quote from the article- But Iraqi oil workers are furious about the conference. "The second phase of the war will be started by this conference carving up the industry," said an outraged Hasan Juma'a, head of the Iraqi General Union of Oil Employees. "It is about giving shares of Iraq to the countries who invaded it - they get a piece of the action as a reward. The British government will back this action in order to pay its debt in Iraq."
Where is Cheney? Any input? My tin foil hat is getting tight.

[Bassic]

115. I'm taking bets

How long until they drop a nuke in Iraq?

[RawMaterials]

123. nope

that would make it too hard to get the oil.

[soda]

156. i wonder if Iran

will get the blame for this?

[rrkent]

116. Cooper gets permission to testify, terrorist attacks follow. Hmm.

Fascinating.

[sattahipdeep]

121. Blackwater?

?x=380&y=331&sig=m0xwspmjlgA.l_9fe63SRg--

[Condor]

151. Probably unrelated

Just as unrelated as the decision to hold the Olympics in London. If this is a terrorist act (likely), i'm confident it takes much more time to plan. Most likely this is related to the G8 summit, because the focus of law enforcement would be elsewhere.

[evermind]

125. BBC (radio 4) quotes "intelligence sources" that Al Qaeda did it.

"it has become clearer" throughout the morning that this is probably an Al Qaeda attack.

because of the following symptoms

* the timing (G8 summit)

* simultaneous attacks

* no warning

* claims of responsibility on multiple websites including one previously unknown group calling itself "the Secret Organisation of Al Qaeda in Europe"

* unconfirmed: a suicide bomber caused the bus explosion (new in Europe)

To my mind, this shows how things are going to go. It may well be correct that "Al Qaeda" did this, but of course there's no REAL EVIDENCE of ANYTHING in the above.

[MetaTrope]

129. Well, either Al Qaeda, or the CIA

:shrug:

[non sociopath skin]

134. Can we save the conspiracy theories ....

... till we know a hell of a lot more.

The Skin

[JoFerret]

182. THANK YOU

for that good thought. All this ignorant speculation is ghoulish right now. There will be time....

[MetaTrope]

183. If "intelligence sources" can speculate, why can't I?

:cry:

No, seriously, I think CIA is too independent of the BFEE to have anything to do with MIHOP. My vision goes more like:

Bush -> Saudi Prince -> Al Qaeda leader -> Homicide bomber

[Bassic]

139. Nah, if the CIA ever gets fed up

it won't go after Blair, it will go after Monkey Man. And it probably wont use such crude measures as street bombings either, unless they need a diversion.

[symbolman]

149. Gee, everything listed there is exactly what happened on 911

and it was perpetrated by mostly SAUDI ARABIANS.

So the "experts" are full of shit on this one, especially that fat ass they hauled out of bed on Morning CNN - complete idiot, spinning for the right wing.

any 10 people on the DU chosen randomly would be more intelligent and erudite than this 20 lbs of bullshit stuffed into a 10 lb gas bag..

There is NO proof that it was Al Quada, like I said, this has all the Earmarks of the SAUDIS...

[evermind]

159. Yep, eerily reminiscent (n/t)

[theearthisround]

157. talk about a conspiracy theory "the secret organisation of alqueda in eur"

Im sure its just coincidence its being reported as credible. Afterall its not like any random person can open a random website and take credit for the attacks...

[symbolman]

217. That's what is never mentioned anymore.

Used to be whenever someone blew up something they weren't supposed to EVERY Anarchistic Org that existed would CLAIM THEY DID IT.

Now they never report anything other than, "Well, the OFFICIAL AL Queda Website says they did it, so.."

Ask any policeman.. when someone gets killed and it hits the papers, they invariably get a few nuts that walk in and say THEY did it, once they are checked out they are dropped like HOT potatoes..

The police don't show ALL of these NUTS pictures and say, "HERE ARE THE KILLERS! PICK ONE and we'll prosecute him at your leisure.."

Get the hip waders out, the bullshit is going to get VERY DEEP on this one.

THose poor bastards didn't have to die. THe blame should be laid squarely on the shoulders of Bush and Blair - they INCITED crazy people by ACTING LIKE TERRORISTS THEMSELVES.

This is Blowback, pure and simple.

Thanks for your post, you got it goin' on :)

[muriel_volestrangler]

131. Sky news banner: Police say 150 'seriously injured' (n/t)

[Skypilot 18]

137. I just saw Bicycle Crash Bush

What a fucking idiot. This is all his god damned fault. Stupid fuc----in idiot. how soon before they multitask in the U.S. ?

War on terror my freakin ass !

[symbolman]

136. God bless those poor bastards who suffer and die

there thanks to the policies of Bush and Blair. I wish only the best for the Brits and our hearts go out to them in their time of need.

BUT, the chickens have come home to roost. I find it interesting that they keep repeating on CNN that all these leaders were there meeting to help the Starving in AFRICA, and to fix GLOBAL WARMING.

Guess who STIFFED Africa RIGHT IN FRONT OF BLAIR on National TV, yep - you guessed it, HERR BUSH. So there he is standing with the Leaders of the world while Blair gets his turn in the limelight to LIE to the world again.

Global warming? Bush REFUSES to do a THING about it. So here we are in the middle of a catastrophe with CNN USING it to make it Appear that Bush is helping the world, feeding Africa and solving the global warming problem.. there's instant sickening spin folks.

NOW, if they are so INTENT on helping the folks starving, etc.. why not start with IRAQ? Kids will die in untold numbers this summer due to Cholera, lack of sanitation, getting blown up, being orphaned, shot, etc.

BOTH Bush and Blair have not only condoned that, but BOTH LIED US INTO IT.

Like I said, the chickens have come home to roost. We are ALL TARGETS NOW thanks to these assholes, ALL of us - no matter where we live, and the group of leaders admitted that tonight/today with Chimpy looking on, constipated, confused, waiting for someone to tell him what to say - where is his top liar ROVE?

Why isn't Bush IMMEDIATELY giving a speech? Why isn't the terror alert raised HERE - CNN even mentioned that people no longer trust the Color Coded terror game, so now the GOvt has decided to NOT BOTHER WITH IT.

What the FUCK? Spin, spin, spin.

Remember what Bush said not more than a week ago in front of all those deathly silent troops. "We are fighting the war over there so that we don't have to fight it HERE."

Well, guess what Blair and Bush? You are pathetic, psychopathic, greedy liars and should both be frog marched to the Hague, NOW.

Oops, here comes the person that can't even RIDE A BIKE to tell us that everything is under control.

Fuck you Bush, you goddam criminal, moron. You've killed us all, just a matter of time, while YOU sit behind concrete bunkers and 16 inches of glass in your cars.

Well, that was a quick speech by Bush, waiting for him to end with, "Now watch this drive.."

Damn you to hell, both of you.

The irony is, that my rich pal Jimmy Walter moved to Europe to be SAFE from terrorism, while I moved to Hawaii..

Pray for the Brits, Pray for all of us, they are killing us all, starting with the Iraqi people, who did NOTHING to deserve any of it.

End of rant.

[Pert_UK]

142. I hear you.......n/t

[MetaTrope]

143. Bush CAN ride a bike

Just not very far, is all.

[JoFerret]

186. Moved to Europe/ moved to hawaii???

...what on earth for? What were you running from?

[symbolman]

211. HE thought Europe would be "safer" and I thought

Hawaii would be "safer" from whoever it blowing up people, whether it's our own govt to control them, or actual terrorists killing for whatever insane reason they have.. could be as simple as "blowback" for us killing all those middle easterners by Bush Senior and Raygun..

My pal thought Europe wouldn't get hit, that if Bush got low poll ratings he'd go after (or let someone else) hit say, Frisco, or Hollywood, any Liberal city would do, a Nuke Plant, etc..

I believe that Hawaii has no real reason to be hit, plus if someone released a "bug", smallpox, whatever, a bio attack, that Hawaii could shut off plane flights and quarantine the Island - on the mainland it would just spread like wildfire and potentially make the Black Plague look like a walk in the park.

If the "shithouse" burns down, money collapse, bio terrorism, etc come to pass, I'll have fish to catch, banannas to eat, and a major communications trunk running through the Islands to see if anyone out there in the rest of the world is still alive, other than roving hordes of mutants and the military :)

THe outer edges of the Bush Empire work fine for me, but I wonder how safe my pal in Europe feels now.. I only hope he wasn't in London today.

I also hope that Blair and Bush get frog marched to the Hague for beating on a hornets nest with a baseball bat, then running back to the car and locking everyone else OUT of the car as they drive off laughing with a trunk full of money.

And I send nothing but healing vibes, prayers, and hope for the injured and dead in London today. God bless them every one.

I actually got knocked down there in the 70's when a bomb went off in the next shop - a wall of shoes (it was a shoestore I was in) flew at me and flattened me.. the owner was nonplussed and said that happened in London a LOT.. but it was usually the IRA and they'd phone ahead first.

This is definately NOT the IRA. But it could just as easily be the Saudis, the Bush family's OLD BUSINESS PALS.

Get out your waders folks, the bullshit is going to get DEEP in the next few days.

[evermind]

138. Tony Blair should be blamed for this atrocity

because if he hadn't steered Britain into supporting Bush's foolish adventurism, it simply wouldn't have happened.

[underthedome]

148. Sorry I don't buy that, I blame those who set the bombs off, not Blair. nm

nm

[evermind]

153. Blame them too, but the principle reason they felt inclined to do it

(more than likely) is the injustice perpertrated by Bush, Blair and co.

[NorthernSpy]

168. ... so they had no choice but to commit an injustice of their own?

Please...

And I think you mean principal reason. I don't believe that reasons of principle had much to do with this.

[evermind]

180. I'm not saying they're innocent or blameless, but if you wage unjust war

of course you should expect extreme responses. If there was technological equality, wouldn't you expect London to get Fallujahed?

And yes: "principal" is what I meant.

[endarkenment]

221. so you see no connection

between our swaggering around the world using our vast military machine to inflict death and destruction and this bombing?

[Garfield Goose]

178. Felt inclined?

You seem to be suggesting a line of reasoning that states that we should be mindful not to do anything that would upset sociopaths who would kill innocent people, otherwise we are responsible for the results. Sort of a "do what they say and no one gets hurt" attitude. Unbelievable. Words fail me.

[evermind]

184. No, I'm suggesting we shouldn't wage unjust wars. If you want peace,

fight for justice. As one saying has it.

Why is this attack any more sociopathic than the razing of Fallujah, or any other of the placees laid waste in Iraq recently?

[Garfield Goose]

191. Specifically targeting innocent civilians

through a premeditated plan to take as much innocent life as possible is sociopathic behavior. That is the policy of terrorism. That is not the policy of the U.S. armed forces.

[evermind]

200. I'm sorry, but US forces have apparently been killing innocents in

"reprisal" killings over the last year.

The pattern is: after attack on US forces, they respond by bombing or shooting up people in the area the attacks took place. The intention would be to erode local support for the insurgency - "if you don't let them operate in your locale, we won't kill you".

As to sociopathy, the Iraq war as a whole is sociopathic on a large scale, and the leaders who took us into it have many symptoms of psyhopathy.

[NorthernSpy]

212. lots of sociopaths running around these days

And yes, some of them are indeed heads of government.

I think that a lot of the war apologists are astoundingly naive about how war is actually conducted.

[symbolman]

247. war apologists ?

You been IN a war before?

From what I've seen and I'm a Veteran (USAF 1971-74) and heard from men and women that have fought in Wars they never want to see it happen again.

There are an awful lot of Veterans that could be considered "war apologists", which is a very strange way of framing the issue to me.

Are YOU a Veteran? Seen Combat? DId you happen to realise that "smart Bombs" blow the shit out of the guy and buildings RIGHT NEXT DOOR as wel as the intended target?

Or do they just get a little "sunburn", etc?

This is an IMMORAL "war" and frankly killing and maiming innocent people for profit has nothing to do with war.

war apologists? I'm sorry but that really rankles me and smacks of something I'd hear on Fox news by O'Reilly.

[TommyO]

169. There is plenty of "blame" to go around

Yes, the bombers are ultimately responsible for the atrocities they commit, but both the Bush and Blair governments bear the responsibility for creating an environment where terrorism can flourish.

[Bassic]

150. Oh absolutely

He decided against the will of the majority of the british people to go screw around with another country when he had no business to. That invites retaliation from the extremists.

You'd think that by now the human race would have figured out that violence only breeds more violence, fuck!

Fact of the matter is, I'm not even sure that he genuinly feels bad about the people who died on the streets. Profit mongers like he and Bush don't tend to worry themselves too much with the fate of the common human being.

[evermind]

155. Of course, he's playing it for all it's worth - compare his lack of

emotion in the face of tens of thousands of dead in Iraq.

[Bassic]

160. Oh but they have brown skins and hid their faces with long beards

I mean they must be demons, not like the good white, Western people!

And of course : :sarcasm:

[NorthernSpy]

158. the London terrorists are responsible for what they did...

... and Bush and Toady Blair are responsible for attacking Iraq.

Everyone is responsible for his own acts.

[jvaska]

162. VOICE OF REASON

Everyone is responsible for his own acts.

Get's rather boring listening to the extent this places goes sometimes.

[UKCynic]

141. A sense of proportion

1 This is not necessarily Iraq related - probable but not proved.

Who else is pissed with us? Well mainly the French over the Olympics 2012, and wrecking the infra-structure of London would be a good revenge, but unlikely as there hasn't been much time for planning and the French method of terrorism usually involves agricultural machinery and cow-shit.
Then there are the Irish who are funded by Americans, (mainly people like NY fire-fighters who by now should know better). There is supposed to be a cease fire, but the IRA don't control all the Irish terrorists by a long way.
David Blunkett will be over the moon. It gives the govt all the excuses they want to impose pointelss, expensive and unworkable solutions. I do not think that Blunkett did it.

2. This is not the same as 9/11 or as we would say 11/9. We are adult and hardened to terrorism, we don't (please God) panic become sentimental or over-react. As in the blitz, we bury the dead, and carry on.

3. The G8 summit is not in London. It is not even in England. It is in Scotland

[Pert_UK]

144. Why will Blunkett be over the moon? It's nothing to do with him now. n/t

[UKCynic]

154. It is his baby

Do you think he doesn't want his old job back? The last thing he wants is to be responsible for the horrors of the failing pension system. He will see this as a vindication of his policies as Home Sec.

[JoFerret]

189. Blunkett is a DECENT man

How dare you suggest he would be happy about these despicable acts? I don't agree with his Home Office record but I can tell you - we need more people of Blunkett's ilk. Don't smear and slime those you disagree with. Blunkett has paid a high (personal)price already.

[UKCynic]

215. What personal price?

He lost his job over his lack of personal morality, but kept his government house. Why? Then after the election he got another job. He was crap in Sheffield and he was crap as Home Secretary, he was a worse Home Sec than Howard, which is saying something. Unless you are sleeping with him, in which case I apologise unreservedly for upsetting you, I don't see why you defend him. He is (not personally but politically) a minus in the scale of human worth.

[MetaTrope]

147. Watch out for exploding sheep now...

:think:

[osaMABUSh]

164. This is 7/7 - from either side of the Atlantic

Not meant to be funny just pointing out the date in case it goes down in infamy.

[UKCynic]

179. No, we celebrate 5/11

The discovery of the of the terrorist attack of 5/11 (5 Nov 1605) is celebrated every year in England. The English parliament during the state opening (think the Capitol during the State of the Union) would have been blown up except that the conspiracy leaked. Parts of the subsequent repressive (anti-Catholic) legistaltion still lingers on today.

[symbolman]

188. I simply cannot believe that the French would attack Britain

that sounds ridiculous on it's face my friend. Over the Olympics?

And it sounds an awful lot like someone that would enjoy "Freedom Fries" long after the fact that he man who supported the name change and the "war" is now screaming at the admin to Bring the Troops HOME.

I would much more likely believe that between Bush's plunging poll numbers, the ROve outing, the Cooper/Miller jailing, the Downing Street Minutes expose that this was an inside job (or another one of those LIHOPS - like 911) to control the CIVILIANS.

Remember, there's a big stink going on in Britain over the ID cards scenario - people aren't buying it.

Worst of all for them the all claim that these attacks will not change our "way of life or freedoms" is exactly the OPPOSITE of what's happening. Thanks to terrorist tactics, people like BIN LADEN AND BUSH are getting exactly what they want, a total crackdown on FREEDOM and Free Speech, or travel, or all the things that make the Constitution SACRED.

The terrorist and Bin Laden have already won. We're ALL PRISONERS of the RIGHT WING elements of this world, and it happened very quickly.

As a matter of fact these things SNOWBALL, and your freedoms will dissapear at a rate you won't believe and soon.

Just watch.

Guess WHO gets treated like Terrorists now? EVERY SINGLE PERSON that wants to travel, or get info on the govt, or make the Media tell the truth. Even Grandmothers are getting groped in Air Ports, can't take lighters on planes so you can have a smoke when you get off - I get security checked EVERY SINGLE TIME I get on an airplane, EVERY TIME.

If that is random then I'd like to use those same odds in Vegas and drive home a Hummer filled with thousand dollar bills.

I'll stay in Hawaii - the outer reaches of the New Empire where people treat people like HUMANS. SCrew cities, they are future death traps whether it be Bush people killing their own citizens for profit, or his Pal and business partners, the Saudis (who are also bleeding us dry at the gas pump.)

Land of the Brave,

Home of the Free,

THIS is where America

USED TO BE.

[amazona]

208. see my other post, agreed, France didn't do this, that's crazy

I suspect if Paris had won the Olympics, they would be the victims this morning. This is obviously a big, planned, coordinated event, involving lots of conspirators waiting for the signal to place the bombs. It doesn't strain my credulity to believe that this organization could have had another team on the ground in Paris, which has now quietly faded back into the woodwork.

We need to stop piddling around in Iraq and do something about the real threat to international travel and commerce -- these religious freaks who can't stand to see anyone have a good life or a successful life.

But for me, symbolman, staying at home and hiding away in fear is not what I'm about. I'll be on a plane next week (if God and Dennis allow) and I won't hesitate to visit London or Paris again the next time I'm invited. I know the TSA has made mistakes, but I appreciate their care in screening, even when I'm the one being screened (and I've been patted down, etc. though I'm no grandmother!) because even if you can't keep out the true professionals, you CAN keep down the copycats, embezzlers, and all the other opportunistics that follow in the path of terrorists such as we saw in the 1970s. Being patted down -- "groped" if you must -- does not touch my soul. Being afraid to travel where I like touches my soul.

[symbolman]

230. Oh, I have no fear at all.

I'm a complete idiot. Two weeks ago I flew from Hawaii to DC to film the Conyers Hearing on the DSMinutes.

I stayed in a motel where I had to scream through 1/2 inch bulletproof glass to get a room, and the motel area was so bad that I literally carried all my filming gear and clothing EVERYWHERE I went so they wouldn't get stolen.

I had to RUN after Conyers to get INTO the Hearing, and I mean RUN right UP to him (he has no fear either, he's like a god to me) and ask him to overrule an aide that didn't know I was coming from so far to represent the "blogosphere", etc..

I may even go to London in the next month or so for a film event, no matter what I see on tv today.

Go to http://www.takebackthemedia.com and you'll see that I'm not afraid of any of these BushCO guys, etc. I screw them all day long with my animations and I spent the better part of a year travelling the country making a film about Electronic VOting, all over Washington, through security, etc.

Nope, I'm stupid, I actually believe in the truth.

As for cowering in fear in PARADISE? I don't find that too much of a burden :)

thanks for your post, I THOUGHT we agreed, and the post bears that out..

[UKCynic]

238. Of course it wasn't the French

But as far as the British Foreign Office is concerned, they are the enemy, always were and always will be. And one cannot overestimate the dislike and disdain that the French have for the British (for the English anyway)

[janx]

175. I just woke up!

There were multiple blasts at multiple stations?

[NorthernSpy]

185. yes

Some in the undergound, and one on a city bus.

That we know of so far.

:(

[trigz]

192. Seven bombs

Three buses hit, four tube stations. Check my blog.

[janx]

195. Drag! This is horrible.

I need some coffee.

[Francine Frensky]

177. Within 24 hours: best of days to worst of days

Imagine going from getting the Olympics to this.

Terrible events this morning and my heart goes out to all injured and killed.

[amazona]

199. it sure makes me wonder

When I visited Paris, they seemed to believe that they would be awarded the Olympics.

I strongly suspect that if they had been, there would have been a series of coordinated attacks in Paris instead such as on their very fine Metro system.

Someone is trying to disrupt people's joy and also disrupt tourism and just generally be a jerk and a spoiler in my view.

My theory may be wrong but that's what my women's intuition is saying. I wouldn't be a bit surprised if Al Qaeda or Taliban types were behind it, they can't seem to stand the sight of anyone taking simple pleasure in human existence. Everything is supposed to be all gloom and misery and no kite-flying or women's ankles.

[evermind]

194. Latest figures: 3 tube explosions, 1 bus explosion, 12 dead, 300 injured

from BBC radio.

[yellowcanine]

209. I have been hearing at least 7 total blasts. Were some counted 2x or

could there have been secondary explosions? Hard to see how in an all electric system.

[evermind]

216. The police now confirm 3 tube blasts. Since some trains were between

stations, people emerged from more than one station from the same explosion, so some blasts have been counted multiple times (three, in one case).

That's the story I'm hearing on the radio, anyway.

Also, a police spokesman has said there's as yet no evidence either way for or against a suicide bomber on the bus.

[Maeve]

214. And AP is reporting 40 dead, 300 injured

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=514&e=1&u=/ap/20050707/ap_on_re_eu/britain_explosion

[muriel_volestrangler]

224. Sky says the Ambulance service says 40 dead too (n/t)

[lebkuchen]

201. CNN International is saying several dead, several critically injured

They don't have all the figures yet and say they won't divulge them until they have compiled them from all of the bomb scenes.

"We will not yield," says Bush. "Bring 'em on!" A glutton for punishment, to be sure.

[UKCynic]

204. The moral issues

I have just heard the American president talk about spreading "the ideaologies of hope and compassion" This is the man who called his Iraq bombing "shock and awe". What is the moral difference between indescriminate bombing of a city from the air, and a series of co-ordinated suicide or other bombs in an city transport system? The first is called heroic and the second cowardly, but that is the opposite of the truth, This bombing is as morally indefensible as the bombing of Iraqi civilians, but not done in my name and yours.

[evermind]

220. Absolutely. This is where "Bring 'em on" gets you. (nt)

[confludemocrat]

227. In time, Al Qaeda will probably attack all Iraq "coalition" partners

Wondered when they would get around to this. What would you expect based on the outrages in Iraq?

[yellowcanine]

205. People are STILL being carried out of tube stations. That can't be good.

It is now what - some 5 hours? after the first blast and ambulances are still being loaded as critically injured people are carried out of the tube stations. One has to assume that the dead are being left until last.

[melissinha]

210. I feel sick

As someone stated in the other thread, this is not about us.

But I can't help but feel sick about the political capital the Commander in Thief is going to get out of this and free pass the GOP is going to get to pilfer this country into oblivion... I in no way mean this jokingly but that sick bastard George Bush is as happy as a lark today.

Back to London. I wish the emergency services the most sound minds and courage to get through this, it will take 200% from them. To teh families of the victims and to all the people whose transportation infrastructure has been destroyed, I wish them all peace and luck.

[Dead_Parrot]

222. MODS - Time for thread #3?

For those of us on a slow connection...

[OKNancy]

226. Yes.. I'll try to find the latest update.

Hold on a sec.

[ewagner]

223. thoughts and sympathies

to the people of London.

[CountAllVotes]

229. Hello from Ireland !!!!

Alls I can say is yikes!!!!

It is much worse than ya'll are being told. I'm seeing on television much tragedy and many more than two dead! :grr:

That is all I can say.

:kick:

[Name removed]

231. Deleted message

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[OKNancy]

236. Thread 3 now open

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=1609906&mesg_id=1609906

[Name removed]

237. Deleted message

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