London Blast Thread #3 - 40 reported dead in London blasts

[OKNancy]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8492258/

40 reported dead in London blasts
At least 300 hurt, 150 seriously; Blair suspects terrorism




LONDON - At least 40 people were killed in the explosions that ripped through three London subway trains and a bus on Thursday, according to a U.S. law enforcement official who spoke on condition of anonymity because British officials have yet to make public the death toll.

The near simultaneous explosions caused at least 300 injuries in what Prime Minister Tony Blair said was a "barbaric" terrorist attack.

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Thread #2 here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1609487

[allemand]

1. Ambulance service: At least 45 dead in London terror attacks (Sky News)

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

[Botany]

2. No politics ..... no rants ..... just sad

Blessings and prayers on the victims, families, friends, and our
English friends.

:cry:

[lebkuchen]

4. Not to mention the tourists that are in the city now

European cities are full of tourists at the moment, especially London.

Yes, Blair, "barbaric," just like the daisy-cutter bombs you and yours dropped on innocent people in Iraq. As Richard Clark had predicted, your preemptive attack on Iraq--and your little buddy's, the Chimp--has brought more terror on the world, not less. Wake the hell up. You brought this on all of us.

[Cha]

58. Unfortunately, that's

what I thought when I saw the word "barbaric".."unfortunate" that it had to have happened!

blair and chimp will never admit even to themselves that this is another direct cause of their bombing Iraq.


My prayers are with you, London!

[AuntiBush]

183. Sad for my Brit Friends - blair & Chimp make me utterly sick!

[JRob]

101. like messing with a hornets nest... I grieve ever death, those in

London today as well as the ongoing death in Iraq and other places in the world and indeed our "leaders" have brought this upon us...

this uncredited quote from the CNN report and especially the part about "respect" for life is representative of how delusional and or unaccountable are the powers that be...

"All of our countries have suffered from the impact of terrorism. Those responsible have no respect for human life. We are united in our resolve to confront and defeat this terrorism that is not an attack on one nation, but all nations and on civilized people everywhere."

Fuck you very much guys for pursuing agendas that line your pockets and endanger the masses.

[AuntiBush]

185. Amen JRob... "Those" responsible have no respect for human life...

blair and chimp think they've got the masses back into terror, and fear... bad. This is sad. And this is bad. I'm speechless.

But that F-U ain't bad. Thanks for saying it for me.

[JRob]

210. not attempting to minimize the tragidy... why is any one shocked?

the "Those", "responsible" who "have no respect for human life..." are Bush and Blair etc.! And this will continue until we change our politics.

[AuntiBush]

217. A totally agree, JRob. Totally agree

[JRob]

219. we seem to agree a lot...

:loveya:

[Monkie]

3. London's (anti-war) mayor speaks:"not attack on the mighty or powerful"

http://ichounslow.icnetwork.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15711235&method=full&siteid=50102&headline=mayor-says-attack-is--mass-murder--name_page.html

London Mayor Ken Livingstone said the blasts that ripped through his city were "mass murder" carried out by terrorists bent on "indiscriminate... slaughter".
~snip~
"I want to say one thing: This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful, it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," Livingstone said.

"That isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith, it's mass murder," Livingstone said. "We know what the objective is. They seek to divide London."

I love Ken,i wonder if his comment about the mighty and the powerful wil l be widely reported.

[Squatch]

8. Well said.

[Chrisduhfur]

18. That's good to hear.

Often times the loudest people during times like this are the ones who have nothing good to say.

[youspeakmylanguage]

19. How can anyone justify suicide bombings?

"I want to say one thing: This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful, it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," Livingstone said.

Exactly. Suicide bombers target the working class, utilizing public transportation, for death and destruction, supposedly in retaliation for decisions made by politicians and generals riding around in bulletproof Mercedes and Cadillacs.

Anyone here who attempts to justify suicide bombings politically is not worth debating.

[grumpy old fart]

50. And anyone who votes for the violent policies of those Presidents and PMs

should take a long hard look at what they've fostered. Violence begets violence.

[youspeakmylanguage]

61. So a bus bombing is justified since at least some of the passengers...

...might have voted for a warmongering politician?

I salute you, sir! Especially on this of all mornings! :dunce:

[grumpy old fart]

85. Of course it's not "Justified". Just putting things in context.

[noiretextatique]

97. even on this morning, there is a war in iraq

taking the lives of ordinary citizens, just like the ones in london. as the poster said: violence begets violence. whether it's bombs dropped by the USA or suicide bombers: the dead are still dead.

[arcane1]

indeed, our violence in Iraq is not aimed at the "mighty"...

or "powerful" either... rather, the poor, hungry, and desperate average person there

sad :(

[Centered]

117. Hmmm let me see if I understand

So if you blow up tomorrow morning in a terrorist attack... we can all sit back and say you deserved it since you pay your taxes thereby supporting the military? Or perhaps you live in a district that voted a certain way? Or a city that voted a certain way? Or a state?? Or a country...

Enjoy your life... someone like you will certainly celebrate your death... that is really sad mate. To proclaim you dislike violence and then to be so dismissive of mass destruction... how hollow your existence must be.

Violence may beget violence as you say... but even violence has it's place. If no one else has weapons then we shall all be slaves to the one who does.

You have every right to say what you wish... but my friend you should be willing to fight and die to ensure that I have the right to disagree with you... that's what the USA is about.

Democrats are not anti-war, they are tough as nails and very willing to go to war to defend freedom. Perhaps you are affiliated with the wrong party. Clinton, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman and Roosevelt all were prepared to send troops into harms way to defend either this nation...it's ideals... or to stand up and fight for those who couldn't. Are you saying that they were war-mongers too because if you are then please join the Green party or something. The love and support for the military that the Democratic party has should never be questioned and neither should our backbone. I despise Republicans who say things like that and I certainly hate it more if it comes from a fellow Democrat.

Just because I support your right to say what you wish doesn't mean I have to sit here and not challenge it.

[LiberallyInclined]

143. you forgot one-

"...Clinton, Johnson, Kennedy, Truman and Roosevelt all were prepared to send troops into harms way to defend either this nation...it's ideals... or to stand up and fight for those who couldn't..."

you forgot the number one reason that American presidents send their bravest and brightest to fight and die abroad- to protect the interests of the stockholders of American corporations.

[Centered]

176. I don't agree

World War 2 was not about American Corporations, The Cuban Missle Crisis was not about American Corporations, Korea was not about American Corporations, Vietnam was not about American Corporations, Bosnia was not about American Corporations...

Neither was WW1... I don't see how you can say that and actually believe it. Find proof that a Democratic president engaged our military in combat for personal or corporate gain and I will accept your statements as a rebuttal to mine... but don't say something like that without proof please.

[TwentyFive]

201. Very True! What do you do with evil people in the world?

Think back to your school years. Remember the Bullies beating up on the other kids, causing trouble, etc. There are 'bad seeds' in the world...and the question is, how do you deal with them.

War should ALWAYS be a last resort. Democrats mostly abide by this. Republicans are sad...been taken over by a bunch of neoCons (most of whom avioded/evaded serving)...all too eager to deploy soldiers (like they are a toy) and play Macho Man from behind several layers of protection.

[Name removed]

142. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[demigoddess]

144. listening to Speakers Forum last night as i fell asleep the speaker

pointed out that this is nothing new. vietcong targeted cafes and so has every resistance movement. they are just fighting a superior force any way they can. We give them the ammunition and excuse by invading and killing their people so it looks like only payback to them, not an atrocity.
The speaker I heard pointed out that imperialism never works and invading Iraq is imperialism whether we want to admit it or not.
He also pointed out that we deal with non-democratic regimes in the area while demanding democracy in the regimes we wish to topple. The hypocrisy of it all.

[navvet]

173. Thank you spoken and written better than I could have.

"Exactly. Suicide bombers target the working class, utilizing public transportation, for death and destruction, supposedly in retaliation for decisions made by politicians and generals riding around in bulletproof Mercedes and Cadillacs.

Anyone here who attempts to justify suicide bombings politically is not worth debating."



We must convince the country that we can be trusted to defend it, until we do we will keep losing on the national level.

Many comments I have heard and read today do not help us at all.


God help this divided country.

:dem:

[blondeatlast]

26. Beautifully said. Unapologetic, but the anti-violence message is loud

and clear.

Well, said, mayor. God bless you and your citizens.

[muriel_volestrangler]

32. Livingstone's comments were quite powerful

They're worth seeing on video if you can find them (Sky News showed them).

[slackmaster]

48. Kudos to Mayor Livingstone for telling the truth

Mass murder without an underlying ideology or even a perverted faith to support it.

[CoolOnion]

77. Background on Ken Livingstone, for those who don't know of him

I love that statement--very well said. For those unfamiliar with Ken Livingstone, here's a BBC report on him from 2000:

Ken Livingstone: Rebel mayor
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk_politics/2000/london_mayor/736460.stm

[Tyrone Slothrop]

108. They pulled that clip and aired it NPR this morning

They were running a BBC feed by that point, however.

[JRob]

115. it's vague at best... Why can't politicians (with the ear of the press)

come right out and say it? In clear and certain language for Christ's sake?

[mirandapriestly]

149. I agree, what's so great about it? nt

[mom cat]

196. I hope so monkie. He really got to the crux of the matter, so much more

than Bush did it his slurry of words.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

211. Livingstone gave the best statement of the day

I didn't know much about him before this, but I was impressed.

I didn't realize until Newsworld International reported it, that he is in Singapore for the Olympic Committee's meeting.

[LibertyorDeath]

212. Well there's our first clue

"I want to say one thing: This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful, it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," Livingstone said.

[Coventina]

5. Just woke up to this news. I want to express that

my thoughts and prayers are with my fellow humans in London.

I am so very sorry our criminal president has dragged you into this.

(If it does indeed turn out to be AQ-related)

[Chrisduhfur]

23. Hmmm

Well if we are going to blame people we should also Blame their leaders too, not just the ones in the US. We should also blame the cowards who did it. Although my first thought was the IRA, but that doesn't seem to be adding up.

[Coventina]

52. Oh, sure, there's plenty of blame for Blair as well as Bush

and OF COURSE the criminals who did this act.

[stickdog]

146. At this point, who is to say that they're not one and the same?

Seriously.

[CoolOnion]

95. Some history

"Although my first thought was the IRA, but that doesn't seem to be adding up."

When the IRA was active (they've been on ceasefire since 1997), they always tried to do "spectaculars" with plenty of advance warning, to minimize civilian casualties. After Bloody Friday (http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/events/bfriday/sum.htm), the IRA Army Council banned the use of car bombs, because they were too unpredictable and "indiscriminate."

[Nihil]

122. Please don't confuse the issue

I will only post once on this subject today but I would strongly suggest
you look into events like the Warrington bombing ... definitely falls
into your category of "spectacular" but the minimal advance warning was
deliberately intended to herd survivors from the first bomb into the
locality of the second bomb - thus maximising the civilian casualties.
In this case the civilian casualties weren't merely "collateral damage"
from an attack aimed at a guard post or whatever but children on a
shopping trip. This was not an isolated incident but other terrorist
groups learned a lot about timing for effect from it.

I am in no mood to debate the wrongs and wrongs of the Irish struggle
today (there are no "rights" to justify the centuries of evil) but,
just in my opinion, your comment comes across as flame-bait on a day
where there have been too many real flames to warrant discussion here.

If it was a mistake then please accept my apologies for being too
sensitive on certain issues.

[CoolOnion]

171. Just thinking of future LTTE's & Ken Livingston's statement

http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporelocalnews/view/156752/1/.html

"This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty and the powerful; it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers; it was aimed at ordinary working class Londoners, black and white, Muslim and Christians, Hindu and Jew, young and old, indiscriminate attempt at slaughter irrespective of any considerations, of age, of class, of religion, whatever, that isn't an ideology, it isn't even a perverted faith, it's just indiscriminate attempt at mass murder, and we know what the objective is, they seek to divide London. They seek to turn Londoners against each other and Londoners will not be divided by this cowardly attack," said Mr Livingston.

I was also thinking Condoleeza Rice's confirmation hearing statement that all terrorism is the same; attacks like 9/11 today's bombing are unprecedented. We need more leaders like Ken Livingston, who understand that all acts of "terrorism" cannot be painted with the same broad brush.

[mom cat]

6. Live video, London blasts: t BBC Video update.. (Also Audio)

http://news.bbc.co.uk/#
See right hand column

[Moderator]

7. Kick

[icymist]

9. I just got the news out here on the West Coast (USA)...

God Bless the people of London. You're in my prayers.

[ClayZ]

12. Mercy on the World

It is HIGH time to end the violence everywhere.

We must!

[blondeatlast]

Amen, amen, amen. nt

[AuntiBush]

189. Yes. Amen... Can't say that one enough.

[AuntiBush]

204. God, ClayZ - You Are Right! It's High Time to End ALL Violence

And bring back "DIPLOMACY!" Like sitting down w/those we do not agree wit, nor understand and say "Let's talk."

Screw the powers that are (no longer to be - they are already at that pivotal level).

How about "HOLDING HANDS" not just across American to re-unite our nation that's divided by Hur Bullshi$ and bLAIR but to show solidarity for all humanity accross the globe.

Anyone notice what that one report said - Trying to "divide" Brits now too. WTF? Just like here, maybe?

[wicket]

16. Amen

n/t

[bikebloke]

10. Our main office is in London

They've done a head count. Still hunting down some folk. Everyone there has been told to sit tight.

[Dead_Parrot]

17. Fingers Crossed for you

I've just finished phoning around, everyone Mrs. Parrot and myself know are accounted for. Phew...

[Dead_Parrot]

Al-Queda Statement:

From the BBC:

"In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly."

============
Fuck you.

[Chrisduhfur]

39. Londoners seem pretty clam and collected too me.

I don't see much panic going on.

[jayctravis]

69. Sad as it is, London has plenty of experience with terrorist bombings. n/t

[youspeakmylanguage]

72. They've dealt with terrorism for 30 years, on and off,...

...from the radical Provos.

[CoolOnion]

163. Londoners were amazingly calm during WWII

I remember a film I saw in high school history class about the bombing of London; businessmen "kept up appearances," going to bombed out buildings in their suits and bowler hats, carrying umbrellas and briefcases as if it were just another day at the office.

In the U.S., we could use some of their resolute calmness.

[AuntiBush]

190. Good. Good. Good. Super-Glad to hear that!!!!

[Chrisduhfur]

damn I hope everyone is ok.

It's a shame that things have to be like this. Innocents have to suffer because of nuts on both sides.

[bikebloke]

145. Everyone accounted for and fine.

Though some folk might be stranded at the office tonight. I have mates who have some terribly long commutes. Others were stranded outside the city, coming in.

[qanda]

11. My thoughts and prayers are with the people of London

And all of those who will experience the terror of violence today, including those in Iraq and Afghanistan. May peace one day rule the day!

[Cerridwen]

13. My thoughts and prayers are with the people of London. eom

[all.of.me]

14. how sad

is this the 'terrorist attack' that bush/blair will use to justify more war?

[halobeam]

29. Dead argument: fight them there so we don't fight them here.

Worst most twisted statement this admin. has made. Such BS.... now what do we say back.... how's that working for ya? Son of a bitches. Stupid ass elite. Damn it.

[leftchick]

131. he will keep saying it

he keeps saying the 9/11 Iraq lies. The US media does not hold him accountable for any of his lies and distortions. So he will keep saying it. He will also say "the world is safer because saddam is gone". :eyes:

[mbperrin]

135. Yes. This is the post I looked for to make sure someone

else pointed it out. Thank you. We can never make ourselves safe by killing people elsewhere and then expecting ourselves to be immune.

Thank you for remembering Crazy Reason #7 for killing brown people who live over oil in the ground.

[Matilda]

34. Bush says the war on terror must go on -

does that mean invade Iran? Or perhaps it will be Syria.

I do feel for the people of London, because most of them didn't want
the invasion of Iraq, but they're the ones paying the price.

I also feel for the people of Iraq, because this is what they're
experiencing every day, especially in Baghdad. But nobody's making
any reference to that.

[nolabels]

87. The war of terror must go on, Hail Bushler

Yea just shut up

[alarimer]

104. Exactly

It's their fault to begin with for not going after the right people. Bib Laden? We don't really care about him? We know where he is?. Then why the fuck didn't you get him? Bush and Blair bear the responsibility for this. Entirely. Fuckers.

[demigoddess]

147. I thought the timing was pretty convenient to say the least

a reporter this morning said that this might help Bush make his point at the g8 meeting. That now he would take a leadership role.

[Straight Shooter]

154. Yes, what a coinky-dink that the attacks help bush

I was just expressing that to a friend probably at the same time you were making your post.

"Isn't it con-veeeen-yent?" I said.

[dbonds]

164. Glad I'm not the only one with this thought.

[AuntiBush]

192. Glad to see someone else is like-minded.

I don't believe in coincidences anymore w/regards to everything going on. So, innocent people must die in London to bring McCain onto MSNCB to rally "support" for Hur Bushivitz's cause.

I know some won't like what I'm about to post and while I'm sickened by those deaths, saddened beyond belief, so too do I feel as much for the countless lives lost in Iraq and elsewhere by leaders whom do not send their own into combat. And I do mean on all sides of this disgusting doubled-sided coin.

[earth mom]

218. My yes, it was convenient now wasn't it?

:sarcasm:

Actually, I've been expecting something to happen for a couple of months...except here on American soil. This is a tragedy that these bastards will milk for whatever it's worth so they can continue to justify their crimes. :grr:

[sojourner]

222. I believe so.........and

there is nothing to hope for, I fear, without hoping in vain.

The criminals running this world are bent on destruction. Not one of them cares for the common class...we are indeed fodder for their wars, slaves for their factories and most imminently replaceable, especially if they can get us to reproduce like rabbits (no abortion, no birth control).

[AFSCME girl]

15. Another kick for my friends

and family in and around London.....

AFSCME girl

[Tripmann]

22. Heartfelt condolences

to our friends in London

Tripmann

[emad]

20. My neighbor says her husband is one of the injured and is being

treated at the Royal London Hospital. Mostly lacerations from flying glass....

Meanwhile London radio reports that City of London cops are now under the command of the UK's Military Police. As close to coup d'etat conditions as you can actually get without stuffing Poodle & Co into the Tower of London and throwing the key down the toilet.

Dumbo's Dept of Homeland Insecurity must be glowing with pride....

[lebkuchen]

31. One of the blasts was near the British Museum

Obviously, the attacks were meant to send a message far and wide.

[underpants]

33. (though it doesn't have to be said) Give her our best

My wife had to turn it off this morning. Too much and just too sad.

[emad]

75. Thanks underpants. The irony that they are the only ones in my

road who have the "Blair/Bush World's No 1 Terrorists" stuck on their front window will not be lost, I am sure....

[fudge stripe cookays]

121. Oh emad, so sorry to hear this. Hope he is OK.

Give your neighbor lots of love from across the pond. And tell her we're doing our best to get rid of the bastard.

FSC

[emad]

128. Thankx. Guess he's one of the lucky ones with flesh wounds

only.

Someone else in our street is saying their sister is still unaccounted for.....

[AuntiBush]

207. Please Stay Safe, our London Friends. Dumbo is right.

[carpe diem]

21. i just woke up saw this on the news...

i think a lot of us have been anticipating something like thisexcept maybe closer to home...all the elements were in place...missing white girl, shark stories, president's low approval numbers= terrorist attack...it's funny how we had all those terror alerts every time the wind blew before the election and yet even now with this attack in London, only Massachussets has issued one...where's freakin homeland security? you couldn't get tom ridge off tv leading up to election day but bombs going off all over London...nothing!

we should have figured something was up from *'s tryke accident yesterday, he usually loses motor control when he'sunder stress, so, i guess he had a lot on his mind...

[yellowcanine]

24. So, Georgie, any word on Osama bin Laden? Just asking. Good thing we

have Saddam locked up tight though. Otherwise the terrorists might be using Iraq to train and become even more dangerous. Err...Never mind.

[Chrisduhfur]

35. I find that distasteful and rather arrogant.

I am sure the Brits would feel the same way about that comment. I am sorry but first of all we can't say for sure who did this, second of all even if it was Osama and his buddies the ragging on Bush should be held back for at least a little bit. This is a tragedy for them and all people can do is somehow make it about the US. Whether the comments is "Good job Bush" or "Libs allowed this to happen". They are both very tasteless and those who make them should be ashamed.

[grumpy old fart]

44. I find this distasteful, and arrogant to call this "collateral damage"....

violence begets violence...when will we learn?

[Chrisduhfur]

49. Very true

but as I said right now is not the best time to go on the attack that diverts attention away from the tragedy that took place just now(the one THIS THREAD is about). If you were to have posted those comments in a thread about the war in Iraq and civlian deaths, then that would have been a different story.

[grumpy old fart]

55. They are intimately related. Iraqi civilians, British, U.S. civilains...

dying because of the policies of their leaders, ours elected, theirs not.

[grumpy old fart]

92. This is the exact time to point this out. It's when people may, just may

be able to feel some empathy for the senseless loss of innocent life.

[primavera]

93. The two are inextricably intertwined

Of course, we all feel for the victoms of the tragedy, but you can be quite sure that there will be more of them in the future and an ever-escalating cycle of violence producing more and more and more innocent victims as long as our and Britain's approach to the rest of the world is to "crusade against the evildoers." Please notice that countries which have not attempted to impose their narrow, moralistic views onto the rest of the world are not being attacked by terrorists. I do not suggest that the victims of the attacks in London in any way deserved to be attacked, but attacks of this variety were certainly the predictable consequence of British and US policy. And as long as we choose to view such attacks as acts of incomprehensible, irrational evil, totally unrelated to the benificent policies of our governments' charitable practices of cruise-missiling civilians, we're never going to understand why the ranks of al Qaeda continue to swell and the cycle of violence grows ever more bloody. Attempting to disconnect the two is tantamount to inviting more reprehensible attacks just like today's.

[malachi]

53. When will we learn? Never.

[Dr Fate]

148. ...

...

[carpe diem]

62. the ragging on Bush should never cease...

he has made the whole world a much more dangerous place with HIS incompetence and arrogance...and we see clearly the evidence of that this morning....his great claim to the presidency was the ability to protect us and we got 9/11 on his watch, a war with no end in sight and almost 2000 dead soldiers that he LIED us into...and now this in London and I think the Brits are probably thinking the same thing...they are not as easily manipulated and knee-jerk as we are...they will likely process and respond to this in an intelligent and thoughtful and much more EFFECTIVE manner even though Blair will try to use this to increase support for the war in England...they are NOT a stupid country so such manipulations are not likely to work, they will probably demand that their troops be brought home NOW...

[confludemocrat]

100. If they don't demand to bring troops home NOW, they are a stupid country

My guess is they won't make that demand as distasteful as they find the business in Iraq, they are still not likely to do what needs to be done, they are too much like us: ingrained belief in their superiority in the world.

[Reverend Smoothfield]

132. as a londoner, let me thank you for your kindness on this difficult mornin

g

[carpe diem]

137. the problem is Blair vs. his own country's population...

HE brought England into Iraq AGAINST the wishes of 98% of his own people...the PEOPLE never wanted thier military involved in W's war for oil and THEY will probably demand it but Blair will 'strengthen his resolve'...

[Name removed]

139. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[confludemocrat]

141. That's true, but they reelected him, thus they didn't care enough

about the horrors they helped happen in Iraq. Maybe they thought they were only peripheral accomplices to that crime against humanity-too peripheral to have an enraged set of crazies go after them.

provoking a mad dog.

lets face it: this is about the war in Iraq nothing more, nothing less.

[Name removed]

195. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[GiovanniC]

68. Oh Please -- Save It

Let's start with the generally accepted assumption that Osama bin Laden and Al Qaeda were responsible for the September 11 attacks on the United States. Serious efforts should have been made to bring those responsible to justice.

Instead, the attacks were used as a justification to attack a country that had nothing to do with the attacks, and resources were diverted away from more worthy causes. Imagine what could be done to boost our security and intelligence initiatives with the billions of dollars wasted in order to tear apart an entire country and to kill 100,000 of its innocent civilian population. Imagine what could have been accomplished in the hunt for Osama bin Laden and other members of his organization if over a hundred thousand troops were out looking for him instead of being sitting ducks in Iraq. Imagine how many fewer terrorists there would be worldwide if we weren't out killing people's children, destroying their livelihoods and removing their hope.

Events like this UNDERSCORE AND EMPHASIZE the need to criticize the horrific things that Bush has done that have brought us to this point, and have placed not just ourselves but also our friends across the pond in increasing danger -- all for the sake of more money and more power for the already wealthy and already powerful.

[primavera]

103. And imagine how much further we could have gotten in the war on terror...

... had we not squandered the good will of the international community which, for one brief, shining moment, was firmly united behind us instead of against us.

It always amazes me talking to neocon "realists" who feel so strongly that the events of 9/11 (and the subsequent escalation of gloabl terrorism) necessitates violence. They'll claim that it's irresponsible to not act when the country is at risk, with which I agree completely, yet why is it that the only response they consider effective and responsible is a purely violent one? Why don't they recognize that, as in every other aspect of life, there are always multiple solutions to problems and the violent one is almost never the most effective one? Yet it's this huge blind spot for them, they simply can't perceive any course of action other than more and more violence. And it never seems to dawn on them that escalating violence not only doesn't seem to reduce violence, but invariably increases it, which in turn inspires them to escalte their violence yet again, perpetuating the cycle and yet they never question the validity of their methods, no matter how catastrophic the results are, it's just amazing. Talk about myopia!

[JRob]

134. greed and omnipotence... it's the oldest justification and the bravado of

it appeals to similar egos (eg neocons) who would screw their own mother for a buck.

This is just the latest chapter... consider what the US did to the American Indians, what was being said in the press then...

Some things never change.

[AuntiBush]

199. Thank you KevinJ. You are a Very Wise Soul - Peace is the Answer

Thanks KevinJ. Agree! It takes a very wise, well-thought out compassionate soul to come to this surmise.

[JRob]

126. Here, here!!!!!

[losdiablosgato]

70. The only fingers to point in this are to the terroists.

I don't like GWB anymore then the rest of you all, but he did not do this. The terrorists did. They deserve the scorn not him. There is nothing that excuses this.

[GiovanniC]

84. The Terrorists Did This -- And Were Able to BECAUSE of Bush

Bush's policies have allowed true terrorist organizations to thrive by focusing his attention and our resources on a country that posed no threat.

Bush's illegal war kills a four-year-old boy on the side of the road outside of Baghdad. Suddenly the boy's father, three older brothers, five uncles, and eight cousins have vowed revenge against the United States and 17 terrorists are born from the death of one small child. Terrorists are being created at an exponential rate where few would have likely existed in the absense of Bush's policies.

Bush's disregard for international law and the Geneva Conventions lead to the US torture of Muslims. The Middle East is outraged and Bush's policies are a catalyst for massive recruitment for terrorist groups.

Bush's lust for oil led him to have troops secure oil fields while leaving HUGE weapons caches basically unprotected. Massive amounts of explosives and ordinance were stolen from these weapons depots by terrorists while the bulk of our troops were off guarding that sweet, sweet precious crude.

Bush administration policies have been pro-terrorism policies either by design or by ignorance and stupidity. At this point, the ability of terrorist organizations to coordinate massive attacks such as the one seen in London this morning are the direct result of Bush's policies and a good deal of the blame belongs with him. It may not be his fault that the terrorists want to attack London, but it is certainly his fault that they are capable of it.

[tblue37]

172. I find this sort of comment bizarre!

Look at the statement made by the group claiming responsibility. It specifically says that the bombings are in retaliation for the occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan. That was also the case for the bombings in Spain.

The Spaniards threw out the government responsible for joining Bush's illegal invasion. These London bombings are intended to produce a similar effect in England--to force England to withdraw its troops from Iraq and Afghanistan.

The bombings are evil, and innocents have died. Yes, blame the terrorists.

But don't pretend that this is not closely related to the choice made by Bush (and acquiesced to by Blair) to attack a sovereign country and bomb its innocent people into the stone age.

[Reverend Smoothfield]

206. of course it's related

whether you agree with it or not--and i gather you don't--we're at war with a bunch of people who happily target civilians in furtherance of their pipe-dream to live in an islamic theocracy. sure, they started it, but at this stage we're trying to kill their troops and they're trying to kill our civilians to make our governments withdraw our troops. that's just a truism. but to say our governments are therefore to BLAME for the islamofascists' counterstrikes is kind of missing the point. which is that all things being equal, we want them to leave us alone, whereas they want us to kneel before almighty allah. that's why we're at war.

[UKCynic]

76. Being 'tasteful' is not a priority

As a Brit I am not in the least offended by someone pointing out that terrorism is a result not a cause. This is a very bad thing, a disaster for those who have lost people, but if we don't understand why it has happened we are lost.

Terrorism is caused by deprivation, social discrimination, and hopelesness. A helicopter gunship murdering the guests at your sister's wedding will do it every time. We create terrorists by bombing and killing innocent civilians, and the US permits the Israelis to do the same. The problem is not only in Iraq, the problem that was caused by the artificial creation of the state of Israel (by us, I admit) has also to be solved.

Latest deaths confirmed in London - 33

[Joj Bush]

82. distasteful perhaps

For a moment, ragging on Bush could be held back. However, we should stay vigilant because not for a moment will Bush stop thinking about how to use this event to his advantage and to make our world even worse. It would be nice if this were a time when we could all come together, and support each other, etc., but that's how this whole Iraq thing started. Bush had everyone's support after 9/11, but let's not get fooled again. We have to be ready to blame them as soon as they try to take advantage of this, which sadly is any minute now.

Edit: not any minute now. already happened.

[JRob]

123. Give me a break!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure everyone is sympathetic to the

death and injury of the people of London, but let please not loose sight of the reason(s) that lead to this

[Oversea Visitor]

124. What about

the hundreds of thousand kill in Afghan and Iraq.....hmmm guess they not people x(

[shayes51]

130. If this had happened in Baghdad, it would hardly be news at all.

Killing innocent people is a tragedy wherever it happens.

[confludemocrat]

138. The ragging on Bush should be stepped up. Iraq, now here's the blowback

A goddamn lie, 100,000 dead Iraqis no freedom, no justice, total chaos, resolve to not leave for at least 12 years even though our presence is the cause of the horrors there. This is their war with the weapons they have. It's got to stop. And no, this not should be a set aside for "good taste". What we have caused is in much worse taste.

[CoolOnion]

180. I was looking for information on donating blood

I can't remember who asked about giving blood, but I found this article in The Daily Mail:

Blood supplies 'can meet demand'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/health/thehealthnews.html?in_article_id=354997&in_page_id=1797

Excerpt:

"The National Blood Service says it was "business as usual" despite the increased numbers of patients attending hospitals around the capital.

"A spokeswoman said blood stocks were currently healthy and that the service could meet demand for blood products from hospitals if requested."

Anyone in the U.K. in checking the status of blood donation needs should check the website www.blood.co.uk. I'm sure those of us in the U.S. will be offered other opportunities to help out in the next few days.

[truth2power]

198. No, the "ragging on Bush" should NOT be held back.

Bush, Blair and those who support them have made this world a much more dangerous place, and there is no better time to point this out than now.

This in no way minimizes the pain that Londoners are experiencing, but the culpability for the violence in the world today should be placed where it belongs, on those who war for the almighty dollar.

[earth mom]

221. Let's get REAL here.

The poster you are referring to was right on with his comment and in no way was sanctioning what happened or belittling this tragedy. Calling a spade a spade is what needs to be done right now. Otherwise we are looking at another 911 cover-up and allowing this crap to continue by tip toeing around it. :eyes:

[yellowcanine]

223. Really? As arrogant as attacking a country based on a lie and then

changing French Fries to "Freedom" Fries when the French dared to oppose us?

[DUBYASCREWEDUS]

51. There, now,

Don't you all feel safer 'cause Tony and Georgie are still in power keeping us all safer from "Terra"? How many times last year did we hear how much safer the world was 'cause Moron was at the helm? Well, now we have a real big playground (Iraq) for the terrorists to train and play in. And does anyone remember all of that ammo that disappeared from Iraq? You know, that little item that was mentioned a couple of days before the November election and just swooshed under a carpet by the media. My heartfelt sympathies go out to all of the innocent victims of this madness. One could only wonder what the world would be like if President Gore or President Kerry would have been the leader the free world. My guess would be that Osama bin Laden would now be a footnote in history. So one more time for any Moron supporter who might be reading this: "DO YOU FEEL SAFER BECAUSE MORON IS STILL PRESIDENT?"

[trekbiker]

86. I'm with you.... Fuck Al Qaieda.... mad dogs..

and FUCK BUSH and his Neocon pack of incompetent bastards. He and his master Rove/Cheney will be the VERY FIRST to politicize this just like they have been doing since 9/11. We innocents are caught in the crossfire between a pack of mad dog religious, power mad whackos on both sides that CANNOT BE REASONED with...

the real tragedy here is that we will be repeating these threads over and over and over with every new attack for years to come because this is not going to end. We can thank the bastards that are in charge on both sides of this "war on TERRA" for this disaster.... and now Bush has created the worlds largest Terrorist recruitment and training ground in Iraq..

the free world is truly screwed..

[slackmaster]

25. Oh crap

At least I was smart enough to read it here first instead of turning on the TV and seeing it on CNN or Fox or MSNBC.

[illini]

27. Sorry London. I wish you the best.

:( :mad: :wtf:

[emad]

28. BBC reporting:

Sequence of events:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

[icymist]

57. B*sh already capitalizing on these attacks to support his war(s)...

<snip>
1333 US President George W Bush, speaking at the Gleneagles summit in Scotland, condemns the attacks, saying that the blasts show the war on terror must continue.

[emad]

91. When Poodle was doing the "shocked & grieving" speech Dumbass

stood behind him, nodding sagely and smirking in his best Ridge-esque "told you so" face.

[myrna minx]

30. Oh my god, I am so sad.

I wish there was something I could do for our British friends. :hug: I feel such sorrow.

[grumpy old fart]

41. violence begets violence...when will we learn?

The powerful lead countries into wars, and it's the little guy who pays. It's been that way forever. Until someone gets their mind wrapped around a new concept, it will continue. The women and children of Iraq are "collateral damage". Now the Brits have "collateral damage". And the rich and the powerful go about their bloody business.....

[passy]

36. Too early to tell but...

...sadly the numbers are gonna rise, it might well be hundreds by the end of the day there.
As Ken Livingstone the mayor of London said it is sad that it is ordinary people who have to pay with their blood for the folly of some crazed terrorists.
When the great trials of Bush and Blair begin remind them what their misadventures in Iraq have helped to create.

[UKCynic]

37. Latest News - 3pm London time

Now thought to be only 4 bombs underground and 1 in a bus.
The emergency plan is said to be working - it may be so.
Casualty hotline number is now open, don't even try it, it will be jammed for days.
There is a great deal of disruption but no panic.
All those in London - workers, tourists etc told not to try to travel home or out of London.
A great bloke on the news , about 80 years old, stuck on his way to a veterans reuinion saying 'nil desperandum.' He has seen worse.
All the usual bods have made statements of horror.
PM is heading for London to show solidarity and then is heading back to the G8. The Queen's Government must go on is the usual trite formula
Casualties are all out of the underground, some of the dead remain

[TankLV]

38. Oh fuck - there is no excuse for this.

My heart and condolences to those injured.

I used to take the Liverpool Street Station to work when I lived there.

Our great leaders have failed to protect us.

Will we see a rally around these fucking "leaders" again?

Just what we needed to take the heat off Rove, the Memos, and the entire crime family.

Great.

Just fucking great.

Just where is OBL that you're not concerned about anymore, bunkerboy?!!!!!!

Rally round owr feawless weader!

Can anybody spell MIHOP?

[info being]

88. Nor for the terrorist attackes we Americans are orchestrating...

in the Middle East.

[winter999]

40. If you were Tony,

what would you do?

[lebkuchen]

43. slink out of the G-8

and call Billy Graham, before he kicks the bucket, to relieve my conscience of personal responsibility.

[lebkuchen]

42. Who do we bomb now, in retaliation, Chimpy?

[grumpy old fart]

46. Yes, how many brown babies do we kill in revenge Chimpy......?

violence begets violence....

[LisaL]

79. Bombings like this have been happening in Iraq nearly

every day. But they are barely mentioned by the media.

[savemefromdumbya]

181. exactly and millions slaughtered in Rwanda

nobody 'bats an eyelid' if it is in Africa, middle east or parts of Asia but if it is in white western europe or the US it is all over the media. the attacks in London were montrous and having been at the Arndale Center in Manchester, UK some years ago when the IRA blew part of it up it is something that bothers me. Why don't these people go after the leaders instead of the innocent ordinary citizens!

[info being]

90. Yes, we certainly will hunt them down...

after all we don't need to look too far these days to find them.

[lebkuchen]

94. Yes, Iran is very close to Iraq

Look for Bush to "discover" a connection.

[Mari333]

45. Just woke up. OMG.

well, we all saw this happening...as long as Blair and Bush continue their war crimes, this will continue. They are responsible for everything evil that occurs as a result of their immoral illegal war. God help the people who get caught in the middle of Bush/Blair insanity.

[underthedome]

47. No, actually those who set off the bombs are responsible nm

nm

[K-W]

60. More than one factor can be responsible for an event.

Obviously the people who planned and executed the attack are immediately responsible, but they didnt do what they did in a vaccuum.

[underthedome]

63. Christ, ok then maybe they blame Clinton nm

nm

[NorthernSpy]

112. there are two reasons why the London bombings aren't a surprise...

As I was going to say in response to someone else in Thread #2:


The thing is, there are two reasons why this incident comes as a shock, but not as a surprise.

One reason, as you and others have noted, is the fact that acts of retaliation tend to follow acts of aggression (such as the invasion of Iraq -- an act of aggression by any reckoning).

This series of bombings in London is just the sort of thing that I feared might happen in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion. A person would have to be a born fool not to realize that interfering with other people's countries and involving oneself in other people's disputes is a first-class ticket to Trouble. Hence that old warning about "foreign entanglements".


But that's only part of the story. The other reason that this attack on noncombatants comes as no surprise is that we already know that the Islamic extremists of Al Qaeda are a truly villainous bunch. They're not at all above destroying people who were doing nothing but peaceably riding on the subway. This is what they do.

And evidently, things like that are why the nationalist 'insurgent' groups in Iraq have been attacking them:

Tribal leaders in Husaybah are attacking followers of Abu Musab Zarqawi, the Jordanian-born terrorist who established the town as an entry point for al-Qa'eda jihadists being smuggled into the country.

The reason, the US military believes, is frustration at the heavy-handed approach of the foreigners, who have kidnapped and assassinated local leaders and imposed a strict Islamic code.

(...)

The trigger was the assassination of a tribal sheikh, from the Sulaiman tribe, ordered by Zarqawi for inviting senior US marines for lunch. American troops gained an insight into the measures the jihadists had imposed during recent house-to-house searches in nearby towns and villages.

Shops selling music and satellite dishes had been closed. Women were ordered to wear all-enveloping clothing and men forbidden from wearing western clothes.

Interesting, huh? Increasingly, the impression I get is that the Al Qaeda extremists are the enemy of anyone who is the least bit secular and/or reasonably sane. And I'd imagine that a lot of Iraqis resent having foreign fanatics trying to make hay out of an anti-occupation fight that they -- the Iraqis -- likely regard as none of Al Qaeda's business in the first place.

[nolabels]

125. Exactly, trying to put exact cause in an effort to eliminate it is........

foolishness and if your(their or our) side of spectrum is engaged in any similar type of abominations how could anyone even debate any of it?
We are seeing cause and effect from a wide spectrum, and it's just par for course that violent elements get the most focus. With out too much good evidence it is difficult to speculate at any rate. There are even some possibilities that this could be some type of deadly ruse

The latest so called communique claiming responsibility is also suspect. It seems the M.O. of many them groups is different. They mostly seem to let it fester in the intended targets minds for a few days before they announce whatever. This does sound political, but using death and destruction to gain leverage has been used by many.

Since it happened in London there might be a chance some truth could come out

[grumpy old fart]

66. As is the soldier who dropped the bomb on the Iraqi wedding party?

http://counterpunch.org/whitney05242004.html

[Mari333]

81. Bush and Blair and the neocons set off the first bombs

over Iraq..and for every Iraqi killed a thousand terrorists were created..Bush and Blair created the terrorists who attack us now..the blame lies with this illegal war in Iraq, and neocon policy.These terrorists are a direct result of neocon policy.

[alarimer]

107. But it is beacuse of our WAR CRIMES

that they did it. Stupid illegal war.

[NorthernSpy]

119. the Al Qaeda types don't care about war crimes...

Basically, they're opportunists. In Iraq, they've seen an opening created by the invasion and subsequent chaos, and they've seized it in hope of promoting their ideology there. And when "promotion" doesn't fly, they use acid-throwings and suicide bombs to ram that ideology down the throats of terrified and vulnerable people.

[trekbiker]

113. true... but there is this thing called the BIG PICTURE..

thats like saying the pit bulls that recently killed that boy in SF were "responsible" for his death.. basically true in a freeper simpleton logic sort of way.. but other (and perhaps larger) responsible factors would include the boys mother's actions, the dogs training, the choice of breed in the first place, etc... its all interconnected..

had Gore been elected in 2000 would this have taken place?? would we be in Iraq?? would 9/11 occurred?? if so, would Osama still be on the loose and Al Qaida expanding exponentially?? useless to speculate but we have to be smarter than this

the real bummer is that this tragedy WILL be repeated.. we cannot win this so-called war the way it's being fought..

[winter999]

96. There were Islamic terrorists

before Bush and before Blair, even before Clinton. There were Islamist Extremists before Reagan (Iranian hostages comes to mind). 9-11 happened before Iraq.

Come-on, if you want to get down to it, Muslims destroyed the last remnant of the Roman Empire in 1453 with the destruction of Constantinople... before there was a country called USA.

[CJCRANE]

197. Yes,

but Condaleeza Rice described them as "flies" before 9/11. Once the neocons allowed 9/11 to happen and then stirred up the hornets nest by invading a sovereign nation the extremists have become a lot worse than "flies".

[alcibiades_mystery]

224. There were Islamic terrorists before Bush and Clinton

Shit, growing up in the 80's, it felt like there was always a hijacking of some plane or ship, or some lunatic shooting up an airport. All the fucking time, yes.

The Constantinople comment, however, is pretty fucking stupid. And unconnected, unless you're just a bigot.

[spooked911]

54. Is this linked to the announcement that Britain would withdraw troops from

Iraq?

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/a1384df4-ecbc-11d9-9d20-00000e2511c8.html

Interestingly, a possible troop withdrawal from Iraq was linked to the Madrid train bombings. Although the Spanish saw through the ruse and still elected a prime-minister that would withdraw the troops.

It will be interesting to see if Blair follows through on the Iraq withdrawal.

[daleo]

177. Interesting connection. n/t

[realcountrymusic]

56. Damn Damn Damn

I spent my high school years in London (Highgate) and returned between 20 and 21 to live right between two of these blasts (Aldwych and Liverpool Street). On behalf of millions of Americans who love that city and its spirit, my heart goes out to all the victims and their families.

And my rage goes out to the killers, but also to the masters of war who made this incident inevitable. Hearing Bush seize this moment to yet again spout off about our "ideology of compassion" and "their" "ideology of hate" makes me puke. Stop it, Mr. President. I'm not saying these bastards who bomb cities shouldn't be brought to justice. But we've become bastards who bomb cities too, and it's pathetically cynical to act like we're just compassionate westerners fighting a cruel barbarian horde. War is ugly. On all sides.

Damn damn damn. Here we go again.

rcm

[Deja Q]

59. Interesting name they call themselves:

"Secret Organization group of al-Qaeda of Jihad in Europe"

Isn't that a bit lengthy? Even the acronym derived from it, SOGAQJE, is silly.

Also a bit silly too as they're not very secret anymore...

The last time I heard of a group with a lengthy name was "The Committee for the Liberation and Integration of Terrifying Organisms and their Rehabilitation Into Society"... from a sitcom. no less. Naturally as any real life organization is going to want to keep the name and abbreviation easy to remember. "Secret Organization group of al-Qaeda of Jihad in Europe" is


And why England? Their involvement in Iraq pales compared to that of the US.

Also, given the time of the G8 summit makes me wonder as well...

But, regardless, if goes without saying that these attacks - by whoever caused them - are beyond vile. May the perps be caught and dealt with accordingly.

My question is, is it really Al Quaeda with a honkin' huge name like that?

[K-W]

64. It certainly isnt al queda.

There is no credible indication of that.

If the claim is to be taken seriously, this is a group that wants to associate itself with the symbol of Al Queda.

[TankLV]

78. Live reporting on CNN now by London Metro Police: No mention of Al Queda

Notice how quickly and where our attention is directed!

These guys have learned well from the great magicians.

[confludemocrat]

152. If it walks like a duck...

"this is a group that wants to associate itself with the symbol of Al Qaeda" that's the very nature of Al Qaeda, we were told early on and i believe it, it's loose, its fluid, its able to take shape transiently with the goal of striking back against what they perceive to be wrongs.

ergo this is Al Qaeda, that early Post Sept 11 truth telling has been replaced with attempts to diffuse and diminish the publics perception about the reach of Al Qaeda by often calling attackers sympathizers etc., except when it serves some PR purpose.

[K-W]

166. You have it backwards.

The government wants people to believe that what we are facing is a powerful organized group. That is the entire basis of the war on terrorism, that every person in the world who we consider hostile to us is part of some giant America hating organization and thus we have to give the government power to do whatever it wants anywhere in the world to stop them.

When a terrorist group invokes the name of Al Queda, they are not claiming to be part of some hidden organization, they are just utilizing a symbol. They magnify the terror of their acts by associating them with other attacks.

We are allowing both the government and the terrorists to use us if we get sucked into the myth of a unified jihadist army.

[confludemocrat]

214. Distinction w/o a diff. Terrorists clearly unified in intent and action.

And of course the gvt's involved are using this in bad ways: la verité de la Palisse.

[GiovanniC]

114. Maybe It Sounds Cooler in Another Language

[deutsey]

65. On all levels, the world is descending into madness and savagery

It's becoming terribly difficult to keep the flame of hope burning in all this darkness.

[grumpy old fart]

71. Descending? We've been down here for a Looooonnnnnngggg time

[deutsey]

73. We had made some progress; but the center never holds, as the poet said

[muriel_volestrangler]

67. Police statement on fatalities

7 dead at Aldgate
21 at Russell Square/King's Cross (tube)
5 at Edgware Road
unknown number from bus at Tavistock Square

[BiggNife]

80. Unknown, my ass

I'm going out on a limb here and assuming the reports of 45+ dead are more accurate than whatever the police are saying. Every "official" report I've seen so far has been an understatement of what they must have already known, and I doubt ths one is any different. If the bus casualties are really unknown, it's because too many of the bodies or body parts are burned beyond recognition or scattered all over (think: 2nd level of the bus, right above the bomb) - still, it's chickenshit to not at least give an estimate from that one.

[grumpy old fart]

89. OK, it's 100. What's the difference? n/t

[JoFerret]

99. Public service announcement expert (not)

...ridiculous to be second guessing the work of professionals who know their job. We are talking first responders here and those responsible for accuracy. Stop wanting those who do this work to behave like hysterical newscasters who make up numbers as they see fit to sell their product.
The numbers will emerge. They will be accurate.

[BiggNife]

155. Yeah, I suppose it's reasonable

I've just had BBC America on for most of the morning, occasionally flipping to the MSNBC, CNN, etc., and of course checking news online. I don't watch BBC all that often (I'm normally not around when they do their news), so I guess it's just that I'm not used to the way they report things versus the way American news typically covers events like this. For example, I was shocked when they cut to a UK weather report for a few minutes before going back to the bombing coverage. I could definitely get used to this sort of coverage - it's quite refreshing not having to listen to new rumors and speculation every 5 minutes or seeing them grill any "expert" they can drag in off of the street.

[BooScout]

174. BS

Unlike the American media which likes to scare the shit out of the public by guessing wildly about casualties. The British give confirmed numbers. You won't hear the British speculating about 50,000 dead like I heard on the American media right after the Twin Towers fell.

I believe they are giving the most accurate figures they are able to. To speculate and add to the terror of the situation would be about the most irresponsible thing they could do.

[norml]

74. The London Blasts: A Firsthand Account

WORLD EVENTS
The London Blasts: A Firsthand Account
A FORTUNE reports finds himself on a bus right behind the one that was bombed today in the U.K.
By Nelson Schwartz
Thursday, July 7, 2005




Even before I heard and felt the blast, something seemed not right in London. I was heading back from my office on Waterloo Bridge to my home in Hampstead after pulling an all-nighter. When I walked out on to the bridge to catch a cab at 9:30 am, I saw one emergency vehicle after another go by, lights flashing and sirens wailing. I figured it was a security alert or maybe had something to do with yesterday's Olympic win. There wasn't a single free cab, though, and my usual bus, the 168, wasn't anywhere in sight, even as other buses came and went.

Finally the 168 arrived and I got on. It was more crowded than usual, but it was the normal mix of commuters and the kind of eccentrics who seem to ride the bus in every city. People seemed more talkative than usual for London, though, and I overheard that tube stations were closed and there was a power surge in the Underground. The London Tube is famously unreliable, and I thought, great, another breakdown. Finally a seat opened up, and I sat down next to a young woman with brown hair and glasses. I kept hearing more and more emergency vehicles, though, so I called a reporter friend and asked what was up. She told me the Tube was shut and there were power surges east to west.

A couple of seconds before 10 am, between Euston and Russell Square, I turned the woman next to me, and said is the tube really closed? As she answered, we heard a distinct, deep echoing BOOM. The bus shook ever so slightly. There was silence, followed by muted shouts on the bus, as people asked 'What was that?' Most of the passengers rushed to the exits and the doors opened but it was a typical London rush, fairly orderly and no pushing or shoving. I immediately thought it was a bomb after having lived through 9/11 in Manhattan, and having heard similar booms during the very brief time I was in Iraq. But then I thought, maybe it was a transformer blowing out from the power surges, and post-9/11 urban anxiety was getting the better of me.

I kept calm and stayed on the bus. Where was I going to go, I thought. The bus was moving forward, and even if it were terrorism, they weren't going to attack multiple targets. A Madrid-like attack hadn't yet crossed my mind. My bus crept forward for about three minutes and it was at that point I looked through the windshield and saw what looked like a double-decker bus in Tavistock Square, except the front was crumpled and the top was sheared off. I honestly couldn't process what I was seeing for a moment, and then the familiar images from Israel registered in my brain and I realized it was a blown-up bus. Through trees, I could see splattered blood on the cement walls of the building closest to the front of the bus.



snip



http://www.fortune.com/fortune/articles/0,15114,1080260,00.html

[Roland99]

102. "splattered blood on the cement walls of the building"

:(

[davsand]

83. My condolences to all t he people impacted by this.

I know the Brits have lived with bombers and other terror related stuff for a long time, but it does not lessen the horror of incidents like these. My heartfelt condolences to you all.


Laura

[uppityperson]

98. This is wrong, I am so sorry. n/t

[skooooo]

105. Yeah, but are the Saud family safe and okay?

That should be Blair's first priority -- taking care of them.

:sarcasm:

[Xipe Totec]

106. It's hard to read through the tears

This is beyond words.

I am so sorry.

[grumpy old fart]

110. Yikes! You must be in agony every day then, with all the killing.........

of innocents every day in this world. My condolences.

[Xipe Totec]

127. Yes, I am

This has been one continuous nightmare, and a disaster.

[BlueStatesForever]

109. I am so cynical

That all I can think is "how convenient" that this happened to take the light off Karl Rove.

I don't think anything is on the "up-and-up" anymore, not even terrorist attacks.

[JoFerret]

140. Ridiculous

.

[AngryOldDem]

161. This goes way beyond Karl Rove

As someone else said, I believe in this thread, the London blasts are a shock, but not a surprise. This was coming for a long, long time.

[AuntiBush]

209. Same here. Because We No Longer Trust our Media, our Leaders

Timing coincidence? I don't believe in coincidences any longer, nor have in a long time.

My heart breaks for lost lives in London now.
My heart breaks every damn day for 9/11 and Iraq troops "and" Iraq innocent lives lost and not to omit those innocent "collateral damage human beings," around the world caught-up in Global leaders which merely equates to War-Profiteers.

Gotta go. Can no longer take this pain. Take care Londoners while I look out my window and wonder, are we to expect another 9/11 here.

[Massachusetts]

111. "barbaric" terrorist attack.

I'M NOT ONE TO BACK DOWN FROM A FIGHT, BUT IF YOU LIVE BY THE SWORD YOU DIE...

WHAT IS THE ALTERNATIVE SOLUTION?

[grumpy old fart]

116. The fundies won't see it, but it's right there in the New Testament....

Something about loving your enemy and turning the other cheek? Oh that's right, they're mired in the Old Testament smiting thing.

[Name removed]

175. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[emad]

118. BBC: Who has said what in response:

In quotes: World reaction
London has been hit by a series of explosions across its public transport system, killing at dozens of people and injuring many more.
World leaders and other international figures have offered their sympathy and support in the wake of the attacks.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4660415.stm

[confludemocrat]

120. Bush says lately "be vigilant". code for: be suspicious of every nonwhite

as occurred in our town in Sept. 2001 and experienced by my nonwhite wife, with fat ladies and old farts (typical Fox viewers I guess ) glowering at her in the supermarket in those days after the attack.

be afraid, he says, be very afraid (especially of muslims and other people who are not "regular" americans)

[Hamsta1]

129. We are all Londoners

We weep with you today. I wish I could say that tomorrow we will go after those that killed your sons and daughters... I just hope when the feeling of helplessness fades away it will be replaced by a resolve not to simply "go after" a population but to truly make a change to remove the incentive for terrorism to occur.

[tabasco]

133. Utterly depraved - attacking innocent people. SICK.

There is never a reason or cause which can justify this type of violence.

I hope the criminals that did this are quickly apprehended.

:mad:

[ckramer]

150. It's true,

and also we (US and UK) need to use a mirror and look into it.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

136. Jeeze, what a thing to wake up to

I had CNN overnight and I woke up at 9:30ish to this. Terrible. Fuck, attacking civilians... pathetic. Doesn't solve anything.

[Dr Fate]

151. God Save the Union Jack!

God bless- I'm very sorry.

[Rainscents]

153. My heart goes out to all people in British.

I am sadden that, Bush and Blair's war compound the terror act on innocent people. Deep down in my heart, I have this sick feeling, CIA was involve in this and or allow this to happen. This is just my gut feeling.

Look at our 9/11... our government allow it to happened.

[steve2470]

156. uk red cross web site, fyi

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4037495&mesg_id=4037495

Edited on Thu Jul-07-05 12:04 PM by steve2470

http://www.redcross.org.uk/index.asp?id=39992

http://www.redcross.org.uk/news.asp?id=47799

News - Red Cross responds to London blasts

The British Red Cross has deployed first aid volunteers and ambulances in response to this morning’s explosions across London.

Following a request from the London Ambulance Service, the Red Cross has so far sent ten ambulances to King’s Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square and Edgware Road.

Another 14 ambulances are on standby across the South East, with two from Kent being deployed to Chislehurst in London.

Marcus Stephan, British Red Cross operations director for London, said: “The Red Cross is supporting the statutory services in responding to the explosions. We will continue to provide support for as long as we are needed.”

[high density]

157. I am so pissed off at the fuckers that do this

And I'm so glad that I'm hearing on CNN that Gov. Pataki is going to use this attack to get his face out there on TV.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

179. He's such a sleazeball

nt

[scarface2004]

158. eye for an eye

those that live by the sword shall die by the sword

you will reap what you sow

the blood of those killed is on bush s (cheney s) hands

[steve2470]

159. Four London Blasts Kill 40, Injure 350

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/B/BRITAIN_EXPLOSIO...

Jul 7, 11:28 AM EDT

By JANE WARDELL
Associated Press Writer






LONDON (AP) -- Four blasts rocked the London subway and tore open a packed double-decker bus during the morning rush hour Thursday, sending bloodied victims fleeing in the worst attack on London since World War II. Three U.S. law enforcement officials said at least 40 people were killed and London hospitals reported more than 350 wounded in the terror attacks.

Prime Minister Tony Blair called the attacks "barbaric" and said they were clearly designed to coincide with the G-8 summit opening in Gleneagles, Scotland. They also came a day after London won the bid to host the 2012 Olympics. A group calling itself "The Secret Organization of al-Qaida in Europe" claimed responsibility.

The explosions hit three subway stations and a double-decker bus in rapid succession beginning at 8:51 a.m. (3:51 a.m. EDT) and ended about 40 minutes later when a blast ripped the top off a bus. Implementing an emergency plan, authorities immediately shut down the subway and bus lines that log 8.4 million passenger trips every weekday.

"It was chaos," said Gary Lewis, 32, who was evacuated from a subway train at King's Cross station. "The one haunting image was someone whose face was totally black and pouring with blood."

<snip>

[steve2470]

160. Statement claiming London attacks

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4660391.stm

The BBC has located an Islamist website that has published a 200-word statement issued by an organisation saying it carried out the London bombings.

The organisation calls itself the Secret Organisation Group of al-Qaeda of Jihad Organisation in Europe.

The group is previously unknown.

The website has previously carried statements purporting to be from al-Qaeda. It is not possible to verify such claims published on the web.

This is the full text of the statement.

In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

<snip>

[steve2470]

162. London terror attacks of the past 25 years

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1684532,00.ht...

By Andrew Ellson, Times Online
Thursday's terror attacks are the latest in a long history of assaults on the capital




London has been on a high level of alert since the al-Qaeda attacks in New York and Washington on September 11, 2001, but until today had been free of terror attacks for almost four years.

In the past 25 years the city has been rocked by regular attacks, mostly by Irish republican groups. But today's attack is by far the most bloody with at least 33 people killed and hundreds injured.

Before today the last attack was a car bomb in Ealing Broadway on August 3, 2001. The explosion, blamed on the Real IRA splinter group, caused no fatalities but injured seven people on a street full of restaurants and pubs.

Earlier in the same year, there were three separate attacks by the Real IRA. In mid-April and then early May, two small incendiary devices exploded at exactly the same spot outside a postal depot in Hendon, North London. No one was injured in the first attack but one passer-by was hurt in the second.

<snip>

[steve2470]

165. London details from Sky News

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4037108

At least 33 people have been killed and 1,000 injured in a series of terror attacks on London.

The first blast hit a train leaving Liverpool Street Station between Moorgate and Aldgate East at 8.51am. Seven people are confirmed dead in that blast.

At 8.56am a blast occured on a train between King's Cross and Russell Square killing 21 people.

Five people were killed in a blast at Edgware Road Tube station. Three trains are believed to have been hit by this explosion at 9.17am.






<snip>

[stepnw1f]

167. How Long Will It Take For The Rightwingers

to try to connect this to Iran or Syria? My question to those assholes before they do, is what caused all of this? And don't just give me that boogey man "evil" argument either.

[Name removed]

168. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

178. So... let me get this straight...

You're making sweeping generalizations about an entire faith. That's really "taking the time to know and understand Islam", isn't it? :eyes:

[BooScout]

182. You sound like a Freeper to me.

[LeftPeopleFinishFirst]

184. i alerted that post

nt

[BooScout]

186. Good....

Comments like that sure don't belong here.

[BooScout]

187. Double post n/t

.

[savemefromdumbya]

169. Rove won't slip away though?

just like the Bali attack. They always come at 'difficult times' for Bush and Blair! This is like pepping up the fear factor. It is atrocious that innocent people get caught up in these barbaric acts. After years of the IRA bombings --- it really isn't fair.

[HuckleB]

170. All the awkward silences and even more awkward condolences...

that fill the blogosphere, the phone lines, the cafes, the bus stops around the world today seem wholly necessary. The teeming trauma pervades, and yet, there is so much more going unsaid, unwritten, at least in most circles. I won't go into that today, as the time will soon come when today's grief will have to give way to new sight into the grief of others, into joining the grief of those we have become numb toward, or never felt grief toward, at least not in the way we do today. I am lucky. My friends in London are physically fine, though not untouched by today's attacks, and one might presume. But I admit my own complicity in knowing grief more wholly today than on other days, when the difference shouldn't exist.

[uglypuppy3]

191. SO WHAT

Everyone, look, you only feel for the dead because you are aware of their suffering. Thats the purpose of terrorism. This is a single drop in a storm of pain if u compare it to the rampant poverty and slavery in India. Full-scope awareness as the buddhist call it. You cant feel pain whne you realize the vastness of it. DOES THIS REALLY HURT ANYTHING? NO. it just scares people

[Name removed]

188. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chomskysright]

193. GET OUT OF IRAQ, POODLE

[muriel_volestrangler]

194. Police now say total dead is 37

2 more reported at Edgware Road, and they say 2 on the bus. Just on BBC TV.

[Name removed]

208. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NorthernSpy]

216. please do not use this board to advocate genocide

Comparing moslems to cancer, and then saying that it is time to "cut out" that cancer sounds exactly like advocacy of genocide.

I won't go there. Neither should anyone else.



(edit: missing word)

[Pallas180]

200. MSNBC latest rport 1:19 PM EST - 700 injured -there are amputees

did not report firm number dead.

[upoceg]

202. just got off a 2 hour conversation with my friend

in oxford. many loved ones for her are stuck in London.
This is her second round of things (she was here in NY on Sept.11) and having a tough time.
At one point I made her get online and check out the DU LBN threads about this.
It really made a difference to see all the loving progressives throwing such support behind her and hers.

Thanks guys, from her, and from me that you could help me keep her together.

you're the best, DU.

peace

[Name removed]

203. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[VolcanoJen]

205. NBC reports a suspicious package on a bus parked outside...

... Victoria Station. Confirmed by British police. Londoners are told to avoid the area.

My heart is with the people of the United Kingdom today, as theirs was with us on September 11.

[muriel_volestrangler]

213. There have been several closures of stations

about 5 in London (apart from the ones where the bombs actually went off), and Brighton, Swindon, Poole, Portsmouth - anything left unattended is now suspicious. Where before there'd probably be a tannoy announcement like "will all people kindly not leave luggage unattended", now they'll evacuate, just in case.

[BooScout]

215. Mods....can we have a 4th thread? n/t

[poverlay]

220. The bastards: I hope Scotland Yard gets the people who did this and puts

them in "general population".

[Moderator]

225. Locking due to length - continue here please:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1610836

[Skinner]

226. Locking

THread #4 is here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1610836