Mystery of Karl Rove/Matt Cooper Connection Deepens

[tuvor]

By E&P Staff

Published: July 08, 2005 10:00 AM ET

NEW YORK The mystery deepened today over top White House aide Karl Rove's involvement in the Plame case and how strongly special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is interested in that. The Washington Post's Dan Balz reports today that Fitzgerald "still appears to want more answers about Rove's role" and apparently is "focused on" his conversations with Time magazine's Matt Cooper, who has now agreed to testify in the matter.

Yesterday The New York Times reported that Cooper’s dramatic reprieve from jail, after his unnamed sourced freed him from their confidentiality agreement, came after he got a personal okay from Rove. At the same time, The Post reported that Rove's attorney, Robert Luskin, denied that Rove had called him.

"Yesterday, however," Balz reports, "Luskin declined to comment on a New York Times report that the release came as a result of negotiations involving Rove's and Cooper's attorneys, nor would he speculate that Cooper was released from his pledge in some other fashion than a direct conversation with Rove. 'I'm not going to comment any further,' Luskin said."

Balz also noted that Luskin's previous confirmation that Rove had spoken to Cooper two years ago "appeared at odds with previous White House statements. In retrospect, however, these statements -- which some interpreted as emphatic denials -- were in fact carefully worded."

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000975776

[AuntiBush]

1. The Master has Spoken

Our only hope is Fitzgerald's sincerity.

[emulatorloo]

19. don't underestimate fitzgerald - article here, well worth reading:

The Prosecutor Never Rests
Whether Probing a Leak or Trying Terrorists, Patrick Fitzgerald Is Relentless
By Peter Slevin
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, February 2, 2005; Page C01


http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A55560-2005Feb1?language=printer

[AuntiBush]

20. Can't thank you enough for the link!

Thanks "emulatorloo." Thanks to Du folks for the great links.

:pals: Heading over to read it now and thanks for the added hope there on Fitzgerald.

[AuntiBush]

21. WoW! Just read the article. Fitzgerald is Relentless, at that.

Double thanks for that link. Shew.

[emulatorloo]

27. yr welcome - great article - some DU'er linked to it last week

it is true, you always find great links on DU. . .

[WhiteTara]

38. Oh there is hope!

What serendipity that the repukes chose him!
:bounce:

[goclark]

2. Please let it be a DRIP for us

[Supersedeas]

13. the Dirty Tricks Campaigners have to carefully word things, ya know

[wallwriter]

31. It depends on what the meaning of "is" is...

It's only shameful when Clinton does it.

[Mayberry Machiavelli]

3. Hey don't you know there was a TERRA attack yesterday? Shouldn't you

be "judiciously studying" THAT reality?

[loudsue]

6. Yep...."hey! Look over here"!

Been there, done that. If this doesn't work, the bush mafia will pull another drama over on this side of the pond.

The mafia would prolly REALLY appreciate it if Fitzpatrick would hold off indicting anyone until the day Cheney kicks the bucket. Then the Chimp can appoint Guliani as VP, and we can have 24/7 coverage of the whole American version of the "royal wedding" and the Reagan funeral, all at the same time.

Gawd this country needs to be rid of the neocons!!! They're making me CRAZY!!!! :silly:

:kick:

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

23. "Been there, done that."

I felt like a 3rd person watching my cynicism harden even further. That's what these bastards have done. Ptooey!

[bullimiami]

4. 'carefully worded'

and these bastards were all up clintons ass for 'is'.

clinton wasnt a grain of sand in the pile of corruption and 'dissassembling' that w is.

[skip fox]

5. Rove's Phonebank = cause for confusion

The situation itself is confusing because of how the situation probably played itself out: someone told Rove (Cheney at a meeting of the White House Iraq Group, or WHIG?; check out snippy's post at the link . . . very intelligent) and then Rove coordinated the callings.

(Note: There were at least 9 calls--6 reporters contacted, 3 of whom were known to have confirmed with a secondary source. Matt Cooper and Judith Wilson's sources probably were not the same since it was reported that Cooper received a waiver from his cource but Miller did not. So . . . at least 2 callers making 6 initial calls. But to assure other high administrative officials would confirm, 3-4 others had to be told the story and be ready to confirm (at a meeting of WHIG?).

Of the WHIG members who better than Rove to devise the plan. (In fact, among humans who better than the man who has taken smash-mouth politics into the world of opponent devistation?) He may have simply told 2-3 others to call their contacts, but let all the members know that they should confirm the story. Maybe each was to emphasize different details. He would probably tell them that he would call his own and make sure nobody called each other's contact.

Which means we might have a conspirator and multiple sources. Which means we may have multiple charges for Rove and a single charge for two or three others. Maybe more.

But, yes, it's going to be confusing to tangle out from the prosecutor's perspective.





snippy's post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=142863&mesg_id=142952

[Peace Patriot]

9. And how does Wilson being married to Valerie Plame hurt Wilson in any

way? That still doesn't add up for me. I can only think, a) by trying to tag Plame with having picked Wilson to go to Niger, this fuzzies the matter of Cheney requesting Wilson to go the Niger, and the plot that unfolds from that, of Cheney baiting Wilson (I mean, surely Cheney KNEW that Wilson would not finding anything on Iraq nukes in Niger), of Cheney then deliberately planting the false Iraq nuke claim in Bush's speech TO bait Wilson (THAT mystery has never been explained: how/why it got into Bush's speech?)--and, with a cover story of political punishment of Wilson now in place, Plame's 20+ year CIA eyes and ears covert network on WMDs around the world can be destroyed.

So what if Wilson is married to Plame and she's a WMD expert? So what if she recommended him for the Niger trip? Why does this sully him in any way? On the contrary, it would seem to enhance his usefulness at tracking nukes in Niger.

I've never understood this part of the story. It's one of those snags in a tapestry that, if you pull it...

[MGKrebs]

18. Let me take a stab at it:

The only way I have been able to put it together is this:
- The marriage angle was intended to be an accusation of nepotism, which somehow would translate to Wilson being unqualified for the mission. This would be so that they could discredit his report, which lacked the evidence they were looking for. But perhaps it was really just icing on the cake (a cover story if you will), the cake being the actual punishment of outing her, which wrecks her career, and is actual revenge and also a clear signal to others to behave. It would be extremely sad to me if this turns out to be the case. I would prefer to believe that the nepotism smear was the entire intent, and the undercover angle was a slip of the tongue that someone then got carried away with.

I would suspect that they expected the forged documents to be found and reported on, but perhaps they didn't expect it would be Wilson who would be sent. And even if so, there might have been an expectation that he would be a good diplomat and report the docs anyway. If I recall, he totally ignored them right? Even if he had reported that they were unlikely to be accurate, the WHIG's could have spun it somehow to look menacing.
BFEE pushes a pawn. Wilson moves en passant. BFEE attacks queen.

I think the BFEE invented the forged docs, and they were always intended to be in that speech. They just needed them to be found. If I have the timeline right, shortly after Wilson passed on them, an Italian journalist shows up with them. Plan B.

Hope this helps. It helped me to write it all out. I want to check the timeline again.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

26. Peace Patriot, I agree with you completely

I too have never understood how "outing" Plame hurts Wilson. Sure it wrecks her career, but it is also a major crime and these people knew that they were taking an enormous risk in doing it (those chickens coming home to roost as we speak).

I like the idea of "political punishment" merely as a cover story. To assume this kind of risk that these actions entail, the reward must have been significant enough to assume the risk. I think that the focus should be on Plame's work, her network, and who benefits from having that network torn down.

On another thread I think that someone mentioned AQ Khan in connection with this. Does anyone have more information on that connection?

This is a fascinating story. I have a sense that there is much more here than meets the eye.

[bunny planet]

28. I read somewhere, I think on fromthewilderness, that Valerie Plame's

undercover expertise and infiltration had to do with the Saudis, and that she was in a position to know the true potential in their remaining oil reserves and was about to reveal that information. I can't remember if it was implied that it was her real and only undercover endeavor and not WMDs at all, or if it was in addition to her knowledge about WMDs. According to this particular article, her outing supposedly had more to do with the administration's fears that she would reveal that Saudi oil field production is seriously in decline (thus providing clues to the real reasons for going into Iraq, securing another remaining oil resource) rather than just outing her for opposition to the war based on the WMD story being false. I never read this version anywhere else though so not sure if it's the case or not.

[CantGetFooledAgain]

32. Thank you BP

Very interesting stuff. I am watching this story with fascination and hope.

[Samantha]

33. Try this

Plame was in the anti-Iraq war group of the CIA. The CIA had splintered into two groups, pro and con. As a WMD expert, Plame had no problem voicing her opinion there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. She did have a problem getting her message out to the public since she had no authority to speak for the CIA and of course did not want to blow her cover. She carried a message from a co-worker to her husband, Joseph Wilson, would he be willing to discuss the Yellow Cake/Niger issue. Wilson accepted and subsequently attended the meeting. At that meeting, the possibility that he would take an investigative trip arose. Wilson signaled a willingness to take a trip. Thus it unfolded as Valerie Plame had hoped it would. She knew Wilson would only augment the argument that Iraq had NEVER attempted to purchase yellow cake from Niger. All seemed to be going well when this was run by Cheney. Cheney signed off on it. Wilson took the trip for which he was not compensated but his expenses were reimbursed. (The line about Plame carrying the message and the detail about the trip are in Wilson's book, read it yourself).

Wilson found no evidence on his trip. One thing led to another and Wilson ends up writing an Op-Ed in The New York Times saying Iraq did not try to purchase yellow cake from Niger for purposes of making weapons of mass destruction. However, Cheney, not to be undone in his pursuit to assist with a pre-emptive strike against Iraq, goes on Meet The Press, where he discusses Judith Miller's article on Iraq attempting to purchase yellow cake from Niger. Miller backs up Cheney. Where does Miller get her information. From the Office of Special Plans (remember that UnConstitutional organization formed by the Pentagon beyond Congressional knowledge and control?). I believe you know the rest of the story. I have a thread working in General Discussion on this subject. I hope you check it out.

[warsager]

10. How are you coming to these #'s?

To me it seems like in perpetrating a treasonous act, one would want to involve the LEAST amount of people as possible. Getting 3, 4, or more people to make phone calls just sounds like a lot more people knowing about this crime than neccesary. Way too many mouths that might speak. I find that highly unlikely, but I am curious where you came up with those numbers?

Why couldn't 2 people call 6 reporters? Thats not a lot.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

35. I believe that Chris Matthews and Andrea Mitchell were two of those told.

[WillyT]

7. LOL !!!

From same article.

<snip>

"Although the president has encouraged full cooperation with the special prosecutor," he adds, "administration officials have not appeared eager to explain fully their roles in the Wilson matter."

<snip>

Noooo... REALLY??? You're kidding...

:rofl:

[TacticalPeek]

8. 'I'm not going to comment any further,' Luskin said.

Lawyer trips over forked tongue, hikes nose, sniffs, and departs playing field to hoots of derision.

[truthisfreedom]

11. someday soon, this situation is going to make me smile so wide that my

lips crack.

[semillama]

12. bit of mindless optimism here...

"Yesterday, however," Balz reports, "Luskin declined to comment on a New York Times report that the release came as a result of negotiations involving Rove's and Cooper's attorneys, nor would he speculate that Cooper was released from his pledge in some other fashion than a direct conversation with Rove. 'I'm not going to comment any further,' Luskin said."


Hmmm...dare we hope that negotiations included immunity deals for Rove in return for turning over higher-ups?

again, being mindlessly optimistic about that statement...

[jsamuel]

14. :D

[skip fox]

15. Was Rover Primary Source for Anyone Save Novak?

He might have been the confirming source for one or more, but only Novak wouldn't be terribily suspecious of being used in untoward ways when Rove origniates a call.

Just some of my current thinking for what it's worth.

[Pithy Cherub]

16. We are now tripping the light fantastic with this!

Now, Rove's attorney is cutting a private deal with Cooper's attorney and just mere days ago Rove's attorney said he did not KNOWINGLY do anything wrong. Me thinks, the game is a foot! :freak:

You cannot make this stuff up...:popcorn:

[Pastiche423]

17. Let it be, let it be, let it be, let it be

Whisper words of wisdom, let it be.

And when the broken hearted people living in the world agree,
there will be an answer, let it be.

For though they may be parted there is still a chance that they will see, there will be an answer. let it be.

[warrens]

22. Just guessing here

But it appears that Cooper agreed not to talk about Rove in public, only in secret grand jury testimony. Rove probably figures he can twist and turn in the legal system, but if it hits the front pages that he deliberately outed Plame and that Bush knew, their entire Iraq thing will blow up in their faces. Just a hunch.

[Shakespeare]

24. Perhaps, but grand juries are leaky, leaky critters.

(as evidenced in the Clinton/Lewinsky saga). And I'm SURE Herr Karl is well aware of that.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

36. Very little has leaked out of this one...Fitzgerald and the judges he...

...reports to are not going to be very happy with anyone that leaks anything.

[drduffy]

25. Cannot help but wonder...

rove and his associates are pretty crafty - and they like trapping critics. I am pretty ignorant about all of this but what if cooper actually 'told' Rove. What if Miller was the intermediate source having gotten info through neocon conduits like Perle (whom I guess she knew well etc.) and then told cooper etc. etc. I just don't trust the obvious here. Why else would Rove give permission to cooper to talk.

I know I am just smoking the bong here but what if all is not as it appears? What if it is a big set-up? Because, after all, Miller went to jail not to talk. Couldn't be because Rove told her anything, right? Unless he told something to her he did not tell to cooper. And why would that be?

Somebody please enlighten me because I am suspicious as hell. And I know these guys ain't fools. And to assume Rove would be so foolish as to out a CIA agent - knowing full well it would eventually hit the fan - just doesn't cut it with me. Rove is an arrogant piece of shit neocon but he has never appeared particularly stupid.

rdw

[txindy]

39. He was fired once by Poppy Bush for leaking info. to Novak

Back during Poppy's campaign. And that was a leak about a fellow republican. Rove was unmasked and canned. So, Rove isn't infallible. He's vindictive and as mean as a snake. And, thankfully, he appears to have 'misunderestimated' what could happen in this case.

You know, if Fitzgerald is following the trail back to KKKarl, he may very well stumble on something much bigger and more sinister: the actual 'fixing' of the intelligence. Rove may wriggle free on this charge, but the whole house of cards may crash down on him as a result of his act of revenge on Wilson.

[wrate]

29. Is it possible that Rove told Miller, Miller told Cooper and Cooper

talked to Rove asking for confirmation? And Rove asked Miller to not reveal her source, only continue the leak.

Cooper's testimony would not hurt Rove since he only said yes or no to Cooper. Miller's testimony, on the other hand, would necessarily have to be accusatory of Rove, since he leaked to her. So she gets not waiver. Is this possible?

[drduffy]

30. that's a good way to postulate

but I can't help putting Perle et. al. in there somewhere. Maybe it's just cause I hate Perle.

edit to add: I wonder how much Miller is going to get for taking 'the fall'?

[Justice]

34. Who Think Luskin Is Doing Rove Any Favors?

I think Luskin is just digging Rove's grave deeper. Luskin comes out with these carefully worded denials and when people start asking questions, poking thru the holes, he clams up.

I know a fantastic white collar defense lawyer who NEVER talks to the press. Me thinks Luskin should take that approach (of course his babbling is great for us, so maybe not).

[drduffy]

37. don't underestimate these folks...

they think through every response ... just as I would do, with a team. Any yuse guys think they make simple mistakes is simply mistaken. They have a plan, and it may involve.... will involve misleading us and the american public.

and i will bet you any amount that when cooper's testimony comes out it will exonerate Rove and make his critics look like asses.

youbetcha

[TacticalPeek]

41. Copy that. I hope we make the smart play & avoid the sucker bet this time.

"On my 21st birthday my father said to me, 'Son, one day a man is going to tell you that he will make you a wager. He will tell you that with a brand new deck of cards, with the seal never broken, that he can make the jack of spades jump out of that deck and piss in your ear. But son, do not take this bet; because as sure as I am standing here right now, you will find yourself with an ear full of piss'."

- Sky Masterson, 'Guys and Dolls' (or close)

[lovuian]

40. this show that News Media is just a propoganda machine

made up by the CIA

the News Media has changed from being a watchdog to being a puppy fed by its mother!!!