We did it: Al-Qaeda (new claim by "Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades")

[allemand]

From correspondents in Dubai
July 09, 2005
AL-Qaeda has claimed responsibility today for this week's deadly bombings in London in an internet statement posted in the name of the Europe Division of the network's Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades.

"A group of mujahedeen from a division of the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades piled blow after blow on the infidel capital, the British capital, leaving dead and injured," said the statement, the authenticity of which could not be verified. (...)

The Masri division congratulated itself on "this laudable conquest" and warned that more attacks would follow. (...)

The same group claimed responsibility for the March 2004 Madrid train bombings in which 191 people died and twin bombings in Istanbul in November 2003 that killed 25 people.

More:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5744,15874825%255E1702,00.html

See also:

Police follow North African connection

(...) The relative unsophistication of the devices could mean that "home-grown" militants were responsible. But most of them are closely monitored by MI5 and the police Special Branch and it is deemed unlikely they could have committed such an operation which came, as Home Secretary Charles Clarke admitted, "out of the blue".

The investigation may be examining a north African connection to the blasts after Scotland Yard and MI5 urgently requested European agencies to help track a London-based Moroccan. The search for Mohammed al-Gerbouzi, who has also been linked to terrorist attacks in Madrid and Casablanca, began after he disappeared from his home in London.

Al-Gerbouzi, who has granted asylum in Britain, was sentenced to 20 years in absentia by a court in Morocco for his alleged involvement in bombings in Casablanca which killed 44 people in 2003. (...)

In March last year, Spanish detectives investigating the bombing of commuter trains in March that killed 191 people, said that one of the suspects, Moroccan called Jamal Zougham, 31, made telephone calls to a landline and mobile telephone line in London belonging to al-Gerbouzi.

More:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article297907.ece

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. Funny

We knew within 24 hours who did 9-11, including names and pictures. Come on Britain get on the ball.

:sarcasm:

[bobbymo]

2. Well duh! Of course we knew within 24 hrs.

We had the airline records of who were on the planes... it should have taken only hours to figure out who was behind 9/11. Now using Buses and trains is what will make tracking these buggers so hard. My real fear is that we will not experience another 9/11 event but more of the 50 here 100 there suicide bombings... this will be the real war!

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. Then how come none of the hijackers

are listed on any of the passenger lists? And how come at least 4 or 5 of the them turned out to be people who are still very much alive?

[alcibiades_mystery]

8. I'd like to see links for the first claim

As to the second, I've heard a lot about this, and yet I've never seen an actual person step forward who's picture is supposedly on the hijacker list. You'd think a person like that would be on the Today show inside a week: Look, I'm not dead. But nope. Nothing. Just a bunch of foilks with the same name. The second claim has never been proven to my satisfaction. I think you just want to believe it, which is why you do.

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[alcibiades_mystery]

11. Yeah, that second one is the kind of story I find hard to believe

9/11 "Truth" folks have taken upcroppings of people with the same names and pretended that these prove the pictures and lists of the hijackers wrong. But they curiously never show us a walking, breathing, or even posing-for-a-still-picture live hijacker, which would seem the easiest way to prove the list wrong. Nobody has ever proved to even minimum standards of evidence that any of the hijackers identified by the US government remain alive. All they've proven is that "Hani Hanjour" or whatever is a common enough name for at least two of the world's 1.3 billion Muslims to have. I'm actually shocked tghat anyone continues to believe in the "Hijacker Found Alive" mythology in the absence of any evidence. That article, for example, is from September 23, 2001, in the immediate aftermath of the attack. In the past 4 years, then the "Waleed Al Shehri" of the article has never emerged and put his own picture next to the "Waleed Al Shehri" of the FBI list, and shown that the pictures match, and that the FBI's claim is therefore wrong. That's a minimum condition for me to believe the live hijacker story, and it has not been met. Now, it is of course possible that some other person stole Waleed Al Shehri's identity, and got a passport with that identity, and the picture we have next to the name is the picture of the actual hijacker, while the name is wrong. But in that case 1) there was a real hijacker, who we simply haven't identified with a name yet and 2) that hijacker is not alive. Again, the "hijacker found alive" mythology crumbles even in this case. I'm more curious as to why YOU still believe it in absence of even minimal proof.

As for your link, those CNN listings are tributes to the dead of 9/11, so they obviously wouldn't list the perpetrators. Those are not official passenger lists and you know it. Now, whether official passenger lists (or manifests) are made available is another issue, but those lists in themselves prove absolutely nothing. The "citations" provided in the link (particularly footnote 5, which apparently supports the contention that the manifests have been hidden) is a link to a bunch of books, which I'm sure people would like me to buy; the link itself, however, does not support the contention it claims to support: so much for that, then.

[DoYouEverWonder]

13. Seems an official list of the passengers

is a hard thing to come by? Odd, you would think it would be easy to find that on the Internet? Maybe if you could find a link for the official passenger lists then we can compare apples to apples? Until then we are stuck with what was published in the M$M.

[alcibiades_mystery]

17. Since those claiming that these folks were not on the manifest

are the ones making the positive claim, it is rather your job to show an official manifest and support that claim. Showing a list of passengers that obviously (and for good reason) excludes the perpetrators is insufficient to support that claim, in any case.

Now, the better question would be why the official manifest is hard to come by. That is a curious fact and one that makes me reasonably itchy. That said, it does not in itself support the claim that the names provided were not the the names on the manifest.

[reprobate]

18. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

Your attitude is what bushco depends on to avoid a real investigation into just how 9/11 happened and who is responsible for all the little coincidences that added up to a disaster.

I make no accusations here (altho I have in other threads in the past) All I ask is that the American sheep lose their blinders and stand up to demand a REAL investigation. And please don't bring up the whitewash that was the fake 9/11 Commission report.

[alcibiades_mystery]

21. Baaah Baaah

Yeah. I'm such a sheep. You got me. Anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot and a willing participant in the cover up. I confess! I confess! :eyes:

[reprobate]

22. That's right. Insult anyone who disagrees with your blindered view.

I simply suggest that instead of going blindly on drinking the bushco koolaid, that you spend some time studying the actual events. I'll not get into a point by point arguement at this time. It's been done too many times before, and there are enough documents on this site to prove any point I would wish to.

If you were truly a seeker of truth as you imply then you would stand beside me and all the other patriotic americans who want the truth to come out thru an independant investigation. The kind that this junta running our once great nation refuses to let happen.

Apparently those on the right are seekers on only half-truths. And I'm not pointing fingers at you, only the false mis-administration and their lock step followers.

[alcibiades_mystery]

23. Oh stop it

Calling people "blind" and "sheep" is just as much an insult as anything else, so you're guilty of the same thing you accuse others of. Worse still, I've read through the conspiracy "documents" extensively, and found them lacking. As in the posts above. What's remarkable is that the so-called "truth-seekers" can't even imagine that others have examined the purported "proof" and found it to be unbelievable. That's impossible, of course, since anyone who's looked at the same evidence you've looked at will inevitably come to the same conclusion, right? Please. And I'm blindered?

The notion that you are a seeker of truth while others go along blindly is an arrogant little conceit, and unworthy of further comment. Take off the self-righteous coat. It makes you look bloated.

[reprobate]

24. I have tried to be civil with you but you insist on insulting others.

I specifically wrote that I pointed no fingers at you, but you must take it as if I was speaking of you personally. Why? Are you trying to stir up trouble or is that just your personality. I ask because having been her since the inauguration of this site, I am not used to people talking to others as you have.

The people here at DemocraticUnderground are here to discuss political topics that we believe are important to the future of this nation and to learn from each other, not throw insults at each other. Civility and respect have always been the minimum starting point here, and anything less will be handled by the moderators and administrators. Skinner, EarlG, and Elad have done yeoman's jobs from the start here and we believe that they will continue to do so. That's how it was set up from the beginning and we have found that it works rather well. Insults only obfuscate the discussion. So save your barbs for other sites, they are not appreciated here. We have better things to do.

[alcibiades_mystery]

25. Wow

I specifically wrote that I pointed no fingers at you, but you must take it as if I was speaking of you personally. Why?

Yeah, I wonder:

Your attitude is what bushco depends on
I simply suggest that instead of going blindly on drinking the bushco koolaid, that you spend some time studying the actual events.
If you were truly a seeker of truth as you imply

Next to these claims, the passive-aggressive "I'm not talking about YOU, now, understand" stuff is, well, belied.

But I can play too: Your self-righteousness knows no bounds. I'm not talking about you, though, you must understand. Just the attitutde of the supposed "truth-seekers" in general.

Gimme a break. :eyes:

[alcibiades_mystery]

7. You'd prefer another 9/11 event?

"My real fear is that we will not experience another 9/11 event..."

Either strange syntax, or very strange ethics. Bizarre.

[Warren Stupidity]

9. I would not count on just small scale attacks.

There have to be groups out there trying to top 9-11, and sooner or later one of them will succeed.

Maybe we should consider what this war is actually about, address the legitimate grievences, stop swaggering around the planet flexing our military might, focus on the police work required to neutralize terrorist groups, and work at returning something resembling peace to the planet.

[liberal N proud]

12. And it will go on for years

bu$h and his regime have opened pandora's box and we will now see the fury of the extremist groups.
There is no way you can win a war against these people.
They bomb we loose
We give up freedom to stop the bombing, we loose.
We can either live as prisoners in our own cities and states or we can look at the reasons these people hate America and fix it.
My guess is that would be leaving them alone and getting our interest out of the middle east.

[allemand]

3. Pak interrogating suspect for links with London carnage

Peshawar: Pakistani authorities are interrogating a British national, Zeeshan Siddique, suspected of having links with al Qaeda and militants in the UK, for his possible role in Thursday’s serial bomb blasts in London. Security agencies had picked up the man from near Peshawar in May.

Though Sidddique’s links with some of the militants belonging with Al Muhajiroun, a radical Muslim group in the UK, have been established, his association with the group as such has not been proved. However, the interrogators have recovered several phone numbers from his possession allegedly linking him to al Qaeda operatives, and feel he may be the missing link in the plot.

The interrogators have also recovered from him a CD containing programmes regarding circuit works, aeronautical mapping and digital simulation. He has reportedly disclosed to the interrogators, that he was a suspect in a failed plot to bomb pubs, restaurants and rail stations in London.

According to The Dawn , they are now focusing on a note in which Siddique states that one of his comrades had informed him that ‘wagon’ had now been called off. According to the paper, the reference to ‘wagon’ has prompted security officials to take a fresh look at the whole case with particular reference to the bombings in London’s underground tubes.

More:
http://www.newkerala.com/news.php?action=fullnews&id=5761

Man being quizzed for lead to London blasts
By Ismail Khan

PESHAWAR, July 8: Investigators are questioning here a British national with known links to Al Qaeda and militants in the UK who they suspect may provide lead to Thursday’s London blasts, sources said. Zeeshan Siddique, who was picked up by a security agency from near Peshawar in May, had initially identified himself as Shehzad from Madina Colony, Hyderabad. The identity turned out to be fake.

In subsequent interrogation, he said he was a British national and that he was suspected of involvement in a failed plot to bomb pubs, restaurants and rail stations in London.

Mr Siddique, 25, from Heston Hounslow, Theville, London, has revealed little as, according to investigators, he works himself into a fit to avoid interrogation but what he did say prompted the security agency to dig deeper into his past, an official investigating the case told Dawn.

Investigators are focusing on a note in which Mr Siddique states that one of his comrades was unwilling to proceed further while another had informed him that ‘wagon’ had now been called off.

More:
http://www.dawn.com/2005/07/09/top5.htm

[Monkie]

4. Even Memri.org the terror "translators" doubt this Al-Qaida is real

http://www.memri.de/uebersetzungen_analysen/themen/islamistische_ideologie/isl_abuhafs_10_08_04.html

"Inquiry and Analysis, 10. August 2004

Assessing the Credibility of the 'Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades' Threats
~snip~
In about two months they have published more threats than any other Islamist organization in a very long while. Moreover, they came to the point where they needed to deny some of the threats, claiming that they were not theirs, a phenomenon unheard of in other Islamist organizations.
~snip~
The analysis above casts serious doubts regarding the very existence of a terrorist organization by the name of the "Abu Hafs Al-Masri Brigades" affiliated with Al-Qa'ida, and with the scope of activities alleged in the statements. Those behind the publications are interested in undermining the coalition in Iraq. However they seem to be nationalistic in their orientation rather than Islamist, while pretending to be affiliated with Al-Qa'ida only to gain more credibility to their threats."

Memri.org's reason for being seems to be to show how nasty arabs are and even they doubt this Al-Qaida cell's credibility.
So either this is another one of their doubtful claims or someone just gained credibility :/

[allemand]

5. Al-Hayyat: UK police arrest 2 Muslim students in connection to attacks

14:53 Police: All three London train bombs detonated within seconds of each other (Reuters)

14:39 Al-Hayyat: UK police arrest 2 Muslim students in connection to London attacks (Haaretz)
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/ShTickers.html

Three underground bombs exploded almost simultaneously - Police

The 10-pound (4.5-kilogram) bombs that destroyed three London Underground carriages and a double-decker bus were likely crude homemade devices set off with a simple timer, an explosives expert said.

The three bombs that exploded in the London Underground blew up within seconds of one another, almost simultaneously, police said Saturday. "It would appear now that all three bombs on the London Underground system went off within seconds of each other," Deputy Assistant Commissioner Brian Paddick said at a news conference.
http://www.eitb24.com/noticia_es.php?id=74614

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. With cell phones and hand helds

it is easy to coordinate such things.

[Auntie Bush]

15. At lest one of them was killed and that might deter their recruiting!

[iconoclastic cat]

16. Ya know, al-Qaeda must be like Woodstock. Everyone was there.

[Javaman]

19. Wait a second, yesterday "they" said it was the...

The secret order of the royal do da's...

now they have an actual name?

And is it true, that "who" on first?

[daleo]

20. Anyone can make claims after the fact.

It is like predicting there will be a tsunami on December 28.

If some group really wanted to prove anything, they could drop a detailed plan (detailed enough to be unmistakable anyway) into the mail (to a major newspaper) shortly before the attack, so that it was sure to be postmarked but not yet delivered when the explosions happened. Then we would all know who was behind the event.

One would think the bombers themselves would want the political cause they are espousing to be accurately identified. The fact that this doesn't seem to happen strikes me as odd.