Two Dean Rivals United Against Mutual Threat

[DoveTurnedHawk]

<...>

Aides to both men say there is no overt conspiracy, but they acknowledge that at least at a staff level, the Gephardt and Kerry campaigns are more than friendly: they are sharing information about Dr. Dean that helps fuel each another's attacks.

On Sept. 30, for instance, both campaigns fired off press releases within 18 minutes of each other touting a column in The Boston Globe critical of Dr. Dean.

Shortly before, according to Steve Elmendorf, Mr. Gephardt's chief of staff, he and Jim Jordan, Mr. Kerry's campaign manager, told each other of the column by e-mail. "Either I sent it to Jim, or Jim sent it to me, I can't remember," Mr. Elmendorf said.

<...>

Another example of the Kerry-Gephardt collaboration came on Sept. 29, when Dr. Dean was to introduce a long-term care proposal in Dubuque, Iowa. Mr. Kerry's campaign learned of the event and tipped off Mr. Gephardt's aides, who kicked into gear, one Kerry aide said. The Des Moines Register buried barely a mention of Dr. Dean's proposal at the end of an article about a back-and-forth between Mr. Gephardt and Dr. Dean over Medicare.

<...>

Several important officials of the two campaigns have close ties. Mr. Jordan, the Kerry campaign manager, worked on Mr. Gephardt's payroll as spokesman for Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee during the impeachment of President Clinton, when Mr. Elmendorf was Mr. Gephardt's chief of staff.

<...>

But he also paid the Kerry campaign a compliment for its research and intelligence gathering, at least as it pertained to Dr. Dean. "None of us is shedding any tears over their ability to research someone's record and communicate a message," Mr. Smith said.

<...>

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/10/12/politics/campaigns/12CAMP.html?hp

DTH

[DoveTurnedHawk]

1. I Am Not a Dean Fan, But This Is BS Too, IMO

I've complained about Dean several times about him going negative against Clark. But I think this is BS, too.

DTH

[blm]

2. Why not? Dean smeared them both for many months as "Bushlite"

and many here applauded him for it. Why get outraged over RECIPROCATION?

[DoveTurnedHawk]

3. I Don't Support the "Bush Lite" Smears, Either

And I don't know, the collusion just makes me uncomfortable, I suppose.

DTH

[salin]

6. agreed.

regardless of which campaigns are colluding, and who the target is, this is an uncomfortable, and very possibly party/destructive development.

[cindyw]

4. Well said

No one is above questioning. Kerry and Gephardt's complaints are nothing compared to what Bush will do.

:yourock:

[DoveTurnedHawk]

7. I Don't See It That Way

Kerry and Gephardt's complaints are nothing compared to what Bush will do.

We all know Bush is going to smear, but I disagree that our candidates deciding to tear each other down, especially when they're burning much-needed cash to do it, is in any way constructive.

The problem is that most of our candidates have big egos and/or mercenary instincts, and probably either think that they're the ONLY one to beat Bush or that they don't care who they step over to get to the nomination. So they go on the attack.

I don't like it. I know I'm being idealistic here, but I guess I just wish more people would adopt Sharpton's solid ABB mentality.

DTH

[blm]

12. They all showed restraint in not attacking Dean early on.

The fact: Dean started attacking them back in January, calling them derogatory names, and lying about their positions. Dean even attacked Kerry when he was recovering from cancer surgery and OFF the campaign trail. No one retaliated for TWO months.

Dean set the tone of the attacks early on. I will not cry ONE drop over what he gets in return.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

19. I have a feeling that you WILL cry...

...when that "return" is the nomination.


Let's say that Candidate X voted in support of the three most destructive bills passed by Congress in the last 2 1/2 years: IWR, PA and HS. All bills pushed by ChimpCo. How would YOU characterize that candidate?


"A great Democrat?"

"A great American?"

Or, *cough*, "Bush-lite?"




We're not talking about any of the other positions taken by Candidate X over the years, just these 3, when we say "Bush-lite." It is NOT a smear. It is an opinion. A widely held opinion here at DU. It's possible for Candidate X to be a "great Democrat" when he opposed tax cuts AND to be "Bush-lite" when he supported the PA. What would you call Candidate X for those votes? Just wondering.

[cindyw]

21. Everybody voted for PA

Most dems voted for HS. it was a democratic idea.

So are you saying the whole congress is Bush-lite?

We aren't going to start this sweep them all out thing again.

By the way, life not that simple. I would say none of the three because those three issues do not greatly define a persons views.

[salin]

5. It does get harder, however, then

to claim a high ground.

The 'teaming up' aspect of this - against any candidate - is disturbing. Wouldn't want to see it among any candidates, regardless of who the target is.

I guess, however, if any candidate survives that level of coordination, sniping, etc (because by sharing each group can go twice as far twice as fast), s/he and his/her organization will be better prepared for the even heavier onslaught to be aimed at the candidate by team DeLayRoveBushCheney.

Given this development - clearly whoever emerges as a front runner in the early primaries will be subject to the same kind of coordinated work - by other democratic party campaigns still in the hunt.

Given that could easily be Kerry or Gephardt, there is some irony.

[La_Serpiente]

8. Their plan is going to backfire

If they keep this up and push Dean out of the primaries, All it is going to do is push Dean's supporters to Clark and he will win the primary...and I'm a Dean supporter.

[Kanola]

11. I agree

If Kerry/Gep push Dean out of the race I will go and support Clark also.

[blm]

13. But you never minded Dean's attacks?

Did you applaud them?

Did you care whether he lied or not?

Did you care that a lifetime centrist suddenly coopted Nader's language from 2000 to attack his opponents?

[clar]

15. I'm with you

If Kerry and Gephardt keep this up and it comes down to Clark v. either one of them, I'll vote for Clark.

[Kahuna]

16. Sounds like a plan to me..

:7

As you can see, I'm a Clark supporter. :7

[TheDonkey]

9. As of now it's just the campaign staffs unlike

Dean who actually smeared them in many stump speeches. I'd rather not see anyone pulling "fax" stunts or bush-lite BUT this is a primary race. Someone needs to win, but we should all hope as civil as possible.

[clar]

10. Dumb

This has the potential to backfire on Kerry and Gep in a major way, and it makes them both look weak.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

35. I think it makes them look strong

It shows they can work together to achieve a common goal.
It shows they know how to find allies where and when they need to.
And it makes them look smart, because it shows they know how to fight.

[pasadenaboy]

14. They're making the gray davis mistake

You will never build a loyal base by being the lesser of two evils. They risk being defined as simply "anti-dean" if they take this drastic of a step (coordinating attacks).

The problem Dean and Kerry have has nothing to do with Dean. If Dean is gone, very few of his primary supporters are going to go to either one of them. His supporters are mainly those who are dissapointed with the democratic congressional leadership.

They need to get more effective on that front, or explain their actions the past 3 years better, and put that in a framework for the future. they are praciticing the same old politics that have cost us election after election the last 3 years. They are afraid of building a campaign on themselves, because by defining oneself, you may alienate others. So they just define what they aren't. That will not work in the general election, nor will it work in the primary.

[Kanola]

17. Good point

Kerry/Gep are seen as inside the beltway Washington insiders who do not connect with the average voter, nor understand the average voter. I think that is why Dean and Clark are sparking a lot of interest. I agree that Dean supporters are not going to back Kerry/Gep either and will look at Clark first. I know I will if Dean is somehow pushed out by them.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

18. I Don't Think They CAN Push Dean Out

My current prediction is that Dean will probably win Iowa and NH, with Clark finishing better-than-expected.

That will end both Gephardt and Kerry's campaigns, and result in a Clark-Edwards showdown in SC, and a Clark-Dean showdown everywhere else.

My gut tells me that even if Edwards edges out Clark in SC, Edwards will quickly falter due to lack of cash. Then Clark will edge out Dean by virtue of Clark's strong advantage in both the South and in superdelegates.

You heard it here first. :-)

DTH

[clar]

22. This is close to the scenario

that gives me nightmares- the brokered convention, blood and broken bodies littering the Boston cityscape, and a badly damaged nominee. OK, that's more than a little melodramatic, but it is something I worry about. Say Dean wins IA, NH and the bulk of the Super Tuesday primaries, then Clark wins the bulk of the Southern primaries that take place a week later, leaving them close in the delegate count. Scary scenaria in Boston follows.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

24. I Don't Think Dean Will Win the Bulk of the Super Tuesday Primaries

I think they'll split them pretty evenly.

I DO think Clark will sweep the Southern Tuesday primaries, though, which will put a major hole in Dean's hull.

My BIG hope is that Clark and Dean do NOT go negative against each other, and the loser graciously accepts VP. But I don't hold out much hope of that, unfortunately, given what I've seen of Dean's negative comments against Clark so far.

DTH

[clar]

25. Ummm,

We'll have to wait and see regarding Super Tuesday, but don't forget that Dean has a significant organizational advantage over Clark. It's going to be difficult for Clark to make up for his late entrance in terms of individual state strategies and organization, as well as funding. That's why I wouldn't be surprised to see Dean take the lion's share of the Super Tuesday states. As far as going negative goes, sadly I agree that it will probably happen, though I think you're going to sorely disappointed if you hew to the belief that Clark won't go negative on Dean. I wish these two guys would make a pact not to do this. Together, they'd be an unbeatable team.

[DoveTurnedHawk]

27. Clark Will Not Go Negative FIRST

Actually, that's an impossibility, since Dean has already gone negative. But in my view, the first person to go negative loses.

As for Super Tuesday, no one has been concentrating too many resources in those states yet, so Dean's head start isn't as great as it is in IA and NH. Moreover, Clark is leading or at least competitive in the few statewide polls for Super Tuesday states that have been released.

I agree with you on hoping for the pact, however, and that they'd be a fantastic team.

DTH

[cprise]

28. Dean wasn't even speaking about a Democrat at the time

n/t

[DoveTurnedHawk]

32. You Mean Dean's Lie That Clark Was a "Republican Until 25 Days Ago"? (eom)

DTH

[eileen_d]

23. Well! That crystal ball looks pretty shiny

;) Seems like a very reasonable scenario. Then all that's left to do is decide whether it'll be a Dean/Clark or Clark/Dean ticket. Bring THAT on!

[Kahuna]

29. I bow again to your superior punditry. You..

have not been wrong yet. :7

[displacedtexan]

37. not to be rude, but

your argument points sound like republican spin i've heard a zillion times on cable news shows.
beltway insider? i certainly hope so. who else can work with a mean repube congress? who else knows where the bodies are buried inside the beltway? al gore mentioned this in his stump speeches in 2000. i was there. he made sense.
connect with the average voter? what does the average voter want? jobs? social security? protection from repube corporations? every single one of the dem candidates will fight for those things... even the so-called beltway insiders.
senator john f. kennedy was one of those 'beltway insiders.' he did okay.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

40. right on! RIGHT ON!!!

As if Kerry is somehow going to run away from the fact that he is a "beltway insider".
Hey if JF Kennnedy and Al Gore were ones as well then let it ride!

[Pez]

30. i thought ABB was, ultimately, the lesser of two evils

if dean was gone and all his supporters abandoned ABB, what is the real goal? now that they have entered the process i'd think everyone realizes the importance of removing BUSH INC. from their self-appointed position of global terminatrix.

kerry has taken his history working for environment, social issues and foreign policy experience and has very clear plans for a positive direction to take the you.s.-- his campaign has everything to do with himself and what he has done. it's not super exciting but it is a detailed, well thought out plan, and it does outline a possible future i bet we'd all be happy to be a part of.

i think the switch came when dean hopped up as frontrunner... with two swift soundbytes all of a sudden kerry et al are traitors to true democrats (funny i thought i was one of those) and "bushlite". the repetetive coverage of those little gems has influenced kerry's defense strategy. with dean being in front he has to expect a little trouble from his opponents-- especially when he started the mudslinging and the race is so close. the "coordinated" issue slams might be a joint effort at leveling out the media coverage playing field rather than some kind of sinister offense. you have to admit, clark is in the news for being the popular new kid and dean gets coverage for the money he makes. i think the rest of the dems (kucinich, edwards, kerry, the GEP) deserve more coverage of their platforms and supporters, having been put on the prime-time backburner.

with new-comer clark a threat, dean started in the debate thursday by attacking clark. it's what happens... everyone does it. no one should be expected to sit back and let someone else take the election just because they are the front-runner... if that were the case kerry would have been picking out curtains for the oval office in Q1.

and what would be the fun of that?

[polpilot]

20. Elementary school playground antics by the 'also rans'. More free

publicity for the next president of the United States. The Kerry/Gephardt brilliant strategists score more points for Dean..and on we go!!

Dean '04...The New Democratic Leader of The NEW Democratic Party.

[Pastiche423]

26. "Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean"

[deutsey]

31. New ticket: Pathetic/Desperate '04

Yippie.

[JaneQPublic]

33. When it takes two guys to take on one other guy, who looks strongest?

The one guy: Dean

It looks like no single contender is a match for Dean, so they have to join forces if they have any hopes of knocking him off.

This whole scenario makes Kerry and Gep look like a pair of conniving weaklings out to get the guy who left them behind in the dirt.

As a Dean supporter, I hope this story makes a big splash.

[jaysunb]

34. Good Post

We shall prevail.
There will be a new Democratic party, with new leadership.

[Cha]

36. I would have loved to have this story at work today when

a couple from Connecticut were saying they liked my Dean pin!

They were really up on current events and have been studying politics for a long time and Dean is the one they want!

This is only Good for Dean and will make him stronger..Give 'em Dean!

[JNelson6563]

38. anybody smell that?

*sniff* Yep, just what I thought. Fear I can't help but think if these guys weren't so busy standing shoulder to shoulder with Jr. back when it counted they wouldn't have to tag team.

DTH, I have to agree with every post you made in this thread. You are an honest broker IMO.

blm, you could give the R's lessons in rationalization.

Julie

[DoveTurnedHawk]

41. Thanks!

I appreciate your kind words. FWIW, I feel the same. :-)

DTH

[goforit]

39. This is just hysterical!!!......They are both so dumb, that they don't

know that they are knocking themselves out while doing so!!!

There isn't one Republican that will vote for Kerry or Gwepthardt!
Most Dems are anti war before and even more so after the war and
these two bozos still don't get the picture except that one will lose
being senator when his re-election comes up and the the other
won't be a congressman much less a senator as well.
So not only are they knocking themselves both out of the Presidential
race, but they are both knocking themselves out of politics
all together......
And this will do nothing but elevate the might of the Dems all together.

There is a light in the tunnel after all!!!

roflmao!!!