CNN Intl is reporting that Shias have declared Islamic State in Iraq

[DuctapeFatwa]

I will be glad to post a link as soon as I can find one

[Spazito]

1. Whoa, this could get REALLY interesting!

This must be what the Bush cabal means when they say all is "happy, happy" in Iraq!

[Code_Name_D]

2. Would this go under "Good News" or the "Bad News" catigory?

:shrug:

[Kool Kitty]

36. Actually belongs in the

"Yep, we told you so!" category.

[PsychoDad]

55. Depends....

On what happens from here on out.

[Saudade]

3. Good

I have long thought that the Shi'ites will rise against the Americans when they are satisfied that the Ba'athists are defeated.

Once this happens, the real party will begin.

As a very wise armchair AWOL deserter warrior once said:

"Bring 'em on!"

[magnolia]

35. Never...

...call AWOL wise! It's an insult to the owl.

[skip fox]

44. Don't call him an assh*le either,

if you have any respect for the sphincter.

[jenk]

4. This should be good news, I guess......maybe not

The Iraqi people, tha majority at least, have decided there own destiny. Iraq will be an Islamic state.

So I guess we'll have to beat Democracy into them :(

[Saudade]

8. Obviously

"So I guess we'll have to beat Democracy into them"

Even if it means denying the will of the majority Shi'ite population.

GO BUSH!!!!!!!!!!

[UpInArms]

20. please tell me when the will of the majority meant anything

to these thieves.

Just asking - was it election 2000? or before March 20, 2003?

[DeathvadeR]

19. Lol .....Who in their right mind is going to turn down a side of.....

FREEDOM FRIES!!!!!!!!!!!!! Supersized of course.

[Ripley]

5. Weren't there thousands of shias rioting in the streets yesterday?

I thought I heard that on NPR yesterday, but no mention on the news.

I believe the two shia civilians killed by US troops recently were the straw that broke the camel's back.

[jenk]

10. yep, and they killed a few of our soldiers too

an armed uprising is possible


but.....but...we're making progress, all the Saddam pictures have been ripped out of the textbooks:eyes:

[Guaranteed]

60. That would be really sad though.

If they threw us out there would be a whole lot of dead Americans. Thousands.

[Cadfael]

6. link here

6th paragraph down:

"In Karbala on Saturday, thousands of Iraqi Shiites flooded the streets to mark the birthday of the historic 12th Imam -- and to demonstrate in favor of a Shiite cleric's call for the formation of an Islamic state in Iraq."

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/10/11/sprj.irq.main/index.html

[UpInArms]

22. 10,000 protest at killing of Shias

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2003/10/11/wirq11.xml&sSheet=/news/2003/10/11/ixworld.html

About 10,000 Shia Muslim demonstrators surged on to the streets of Baghdad yesterday. They were protesting against the Americans after a night that left two US soldiers and two Iraqis dead.

In the run-down area of Sadr City, where the shootings took place, the crowd chanted "No to America, yes to the martyrs" as the coffins of the Iraqis were held aloft.

The Iraqis were shot by an American patrol outside a prayer centre in the mainly Shia neighbourhood. Witnesses said there was an exchange of fire between security men and US forces as they closed in on a radical Shi'ite cleric's headquarters.

...more...

[sasquatch]

7. Iraq if it was a Democracy would break up into three coutry's

A state for the Shia's, A state for the Sunni's and a state for the Kurds. The Kurdistan would be great in my opinion because terrorism from Kurdistan would end. Until the Turks invaded then it would be a mess.

[Frances]

16. My first thought was that there would then be war between

the Kurds and the Turks. I think that is why the Turks are sending soldiers to Iraq. Turkey will shift their soldiers from their posting to where the Kurds are. I expect the U.S. will support whoever promises us the real control of the oil fields.

[SOS]

43. Interestingly

the 3 groups in Iraq were 3 seperate provinces of the Ottoman Empire until the end of WW1.
Then in 1920 the British made up the country "Iraq" in London, by combining these 3 provinces. The Brits figured their animosity could be played against eachother in typical colonial fashion.
Surprisingly, the 3 groups put aside their differences and concentrated on evicting the British. Many thousands died including hundreds of British soldiers, but in 1931 the Brits left.
They held some proxy control through a Brit friendly King, but later he was executed and dragged through the streets of Baghdad.
Surely Bush does not know any of this history, but what's Blair's excuse?

[Old and In the Way]

47. You forgot the 4th State

Halliburtonstan.

That would be the area where the oil fields are located. Really, does this administration give a rat's ass what government ultimate comes to power as long as they have the oil?

[DuctapeFatwa]

9. Sky News Link

Iraq's Shi'ite leader claims he has formed a new government which will begin operating immediately.


Moqtada Sadr's announcement came at the end of a week of protests directed at the US-led coalition forces.

Sadr, who has rejected the country's US-instigated Governing Council, has created a list of ministries, although he has not named any ministers.

http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-12818660,00.html

Comment: Jane Arraf looked very nice in her hijab }(

edit to add link, DUH

[jenk]

13. how long until Moqtada Sadr is "nabbed"

I have a feeling they're preparing for another raid this evening, how dare the people form a government!!!!!!!

[IndianaGreen]

48. Sadr is the son of a martyred ayatollah that was murdered by Saddam

Arresting him would bring the wrath of the Shiites against the colonial administration. Don't piss people off that are in the majority! Without the Shiites we stand no chance of getting out of Iraq without getting ourselves blown up.

[paulk]

56. it would bring the wrath of a Shiite faction

We're far more likely to see a civil war between Shiite groups over this than one directed at the colonial administration. Which would be bad enough...

But Sadr is not "a majority". His faction is in the minority - although he's certainly shown a willingness to use violent means to his ends. Many in Iraq believe he was behind the mosque bombing that killed Mohammed Baqir Al-Hakim.

[htuttle]

11. This was a fait accompli after day 1 of the invasion

After pummeling Iraq's secular society into dust, who else has the organization to hold the country together?

We (meaning the US) have very little say in the matter.

[Saudade]

12. ???

"We (meaning the US) have very little say in the matter."

Time to call in the IDF?

[htuttle]

15. They would have no say in it either

The US invasion changed the dynamic of Iraqi society. All anyone outside Iraq can do at this point to influence matters is affect the timeline.

[DuctapeFatwa]

31. Yes! Israel must send all its troops in to establish settlements in Iraq

God's road map, doncha know. Greater Israel is to include quite a chunk of the Middle East where the people there are under the illusion that they live in some other country.

[T Bone]

53. Yes, it would almost seem to be the way you would do it

if you actually wanted to make the country a fundamentlist Islamic nation, much like Osamma Bin Laden would wish for it...

[hail to the thief]

14. Be democratic or we'll kill your ass!

Once you start beating "Democracy" into the majority of the population of a given country, doesn't it stop being a Democracy and start looking more like a Fascist state? Democracy will never exist in Iraq because the West(i.e. United States, Britain) will never allow Iraq to be an Islamic State which is what Shias want and they are the majority. This is a huge Coprorate scam and front to rape Iraq of all its' wealth, when the pigs have had their fill at the trough then they'll begin to entertain the vague notion that they might have to leave. Bunch of neo-con assholes

[ConcernedCanuk]

17. You mean some Iraqi's took that "Freedom" thing SERIOUSLY ???

. . . JUNIOR AIN'T GONNA LIKE THAT !

[nadinbrzezinski]

18. Ohhh goody

I have been projecting a whole sale uprising...

Can I be wrong for once? I mean I trust the misadministration
to continue to press the issue...

Yep, I have said in different places after September.

This is just the first step.

Eveybody, including Bush, should read Paris 1919: Six Months that Changed the World... the chapter on Iraq is quite prescient. And yes
I will demand a refund History DOES repeat itself and Santaya was
right!

Now I wonder if baby boy Bremmer will have the restraint that
Churhill had... he at least thought about using Chem Warfare
and just kept the brow beating down to the new RAF... I wonder if Bremmer will have the same level of restraint... <sarcasm>

[DeathvadeR]

21. Islamic State........... Come on..........We all know that Jesus

can kick allahs ass any day of the week. whahahahahaha
In the words of Poindexter "Any one care to wager on this one?"


*only pun intended

[SpiralHawk]

23. "Mission Accomplished"

- yer Commander-in-Chief*

*Inexcusably AWOL while honor-bound by solemn oath to be serving with the Texas National Guard in the 1970s; defeated by a clear majority of patriotic and discerning American voters in the 2000 election; appointed to office by the so-called supreme court.

[Oilwellian]

24. I wonder...

How much of a hand Chalabi has in promoting this declaration?

[DeathvadeR]

26. What the hell is that penquin humor??????

It's a like a 2 stooges clip. That is just oo friggin funny

[Feanorcurufinwe]

34. HAH

I'm still laughing at that penquin clip...

[janx]

40. Chalabi? Good ole' trustworthy Chalabi? He doesn't want

any Islamic state. That would ruin his plans.

[SammyWinstonJack]

51. LOL

Poor little penguin.

[MrPrax]

52. There should be a contest for this stuff...

which is funnier this penguin or the kitten with the sniper rifle...

LOLOLOL...
so many creative people here...

hemhem...
Oh yeah them shi'ites are upping the ante

[calimary]

59. I'm sitting here chuckling out loud at those penguins.

WHERE did you find that? It's hilarious!

[paulk]

25. moqtada sadr is a radical

he doesn't represent the Shia majority in Iraq. His influence with that majority is questionable at best.

[hedda_foil]

27. An occupied people can be radicalized very easily.

Watch for it.

[paulk]

28. do you want the faction he represents to come to power in Iraq?

Be careful what you wish for.

[karlschneider]

30. Whatever we may "want" does not matter. Don't kid yourself, Iraq let

Saddam run things because they weren't sufficiently against him to do something about it. Kinda like how 'murika is letting itself be ruled by an oligarchy that has not a scintilla more integrity than Hussein.

[IndianaGreen]

49. Bush and Blair were warned about the consequences of toppling Saddam

and the idiots that attended Clear Channel's "Support the Troops" rallies did not care to hear those that warned about the law of unintended consequences.

They are all now being paid back in full measure for what they have done. The new Iraq will be hostile to the West and will be more of a threat to those idiots in Israel than Saddam ever was. They made their bed, now they have to lay in it.

[starroute]

37. Moqtadah al-Sadr is a very dangerous man

I've been keeping an eye out for stories about him since al-Khoei was killed last April, and it's clear that al-Sadr is ambitious, unscrupulous, and fanatical -- and also that he's been carefully positioning himself to become the voice of the Shi'ite massses.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EJ11Ak01.html

Muqtada is something of a working-class hero in Sadr City - the 2-million-strong Baghdad slum previously known as Saddam City. He claims to be thirtysomething, but some people in Baghdad estimate that he is not older than 28, and probably even younger. Even under Saddam's regime, his network was infiltrated by multiple intelligence services. Established clerics and Shi'ite intellectuals consider him a punk - not only because of his trademark sneer, but because he speaks colloquial rather than classical Arabic sprinkled with slang. Some Shi'ites even implicate him in the murders of his rivals Khoei and al-Hakim.

There are many reasons for Muqtada's widespread popularity, though. The main one is that he is the son of grand ayatollah Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr, murdered by Saddam's regime in 1999. In addition, he delivers fiery speeches - widely available on video compact disc in Baghdad - against the occupiers: he derides the Governing Council as puppets; and he has nothing but contempt for the traditional Shi'ite religious leaders congregated at al-Hawza, which both Khoei and al-Hakim were. Muqtada insists that the marjaaiyya - the top Shi'ite clerics - have no popular base. His model is Ayatollah Kazim al-Husseini al-Haeri, an ultra-conservative Iraqi Shi'ite still based in Iran.

Immediately after the fall of Baghdad - with no Ba'ath Party structure and no security left in place - Muqtada acted with lightning speed to fill the power vacuum. From his base in Kufa, near Najaf, he dispatched the Muqtada faithful all over the Shi'ite south to set up neighborhood committees and take over local hospitals, collect garbage, protect warehouses, establish roadblocks to deter looters, protect electricity and water stations and transform Ba'ath Party offices into religious centers.

Muqtada commands a militia called the Jaysh al-Mahdi: on a recent religious holiday in Najaf, Asia Times Online experienced face-to-face its thuggish behavior. The militia is not nearly as well disciplined as the Badr Brigades. Both militias anyway remain infinitely more powerful than the badly equipped Iraqi police. Muqtada's acolytes and the Jaysh al Mahdi enforce a policy according to which no Iraqis may drink alcohol, and all Iraqi women should be veiled.

[Gloria]

42. This is just the most recent article in ATimes on Sadr.....

I posted one that appeared just after the "war" in the World Media Watch.
That one talked about the two Shi'ite factions...This is actually a blood feud between the two. Sadr's father, if I recall, was killed by his rival's family....Something like that. Sadr built up his strength in the slums of Baghdad...."Sadr City." THese two factions have been going at it and now Sadr is declaring an Islamic state. We shall see if we first go into some sort of civil war between the two Shi'ite factions...and then get to the Islamic state part!!

If I find the article, I'll post it here.

ON EDIT:

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH22Ak04.h

My mistake...the article linked deals with a different rival of Sadr's...looks like Sadr may have come out on top! From the article:

"Yaqubi was the favorite student of Mohammed Sadiq al-Sadr, an important proponent of the hawza natika who was killed by agents of Saddam in 1999, and thus achieved the status of a revered martyr. His son, the young Muqtada Sadr, has used his father's reputation to galvanize a mass movement that now holds key Shi'ite neighborhoods and mosques throughout Iraq and who has ambitions for national control. Muqtada and Yaqubi are now bitter rivals seeking to embody the hawza natika and eventually rule Iraq."


This article from August is prophetic:
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH06Ak02.html

"After the fall of Saddam's regime, his pictures in streets, homes and mosques were widely replaced by those of Baqir al-Hakim and his father Muhsin al-Hakim. To date, these pictures remain. But very recently images of Muqtada al-Sadr have appeared on the walls of two sacred shrines in Karbala, site of the 7th-century martyrdom of al-Hussein, a grandson of the Prophet Mohammed and one of the Shi'ites' most revered saints, and his younger brother al-Abass.

These portraits could represent the true picture of things to come for Iraq's Shi'ites."




Here is a link to a page of ATimes articles on all the religious maneuverings in Iraq...it is quite fascinating!!

http://www.atimes.com/cgi-bin/es/esearch.asp?start=0&perPage=10&summary=yes&sort=rank&search=Sadr&submit=Search

[paulk]

45. a popular uprising led by Sadr is the worst of all outcomes

hopefully the Shiites will reject his power play. He'd be another Saddam; worse, even. At least Saddam was secular. This guy is a religious fanatic.

[IndianaGreen]

50. Anything that defeats Bush and Blair, and the PNAC imperialists

is good for Iraq and for the world!

We should withdraw the troops immediately and unconditionally, and we must forsake all dreams of Empire!

[paulk]

57. if Sadr sets up a fundamentalist Islamic state in southern Iraq

it won't be good for Iraq or the world.

Bush, Blair, and the PNAC can be defeated without turning Iraq into Afghanistan.

With these idiots in charge, it doesn't look good, though, does it?
I've never seen such an incompetent foreign policy. And refering to another post of your's - the real problem is that the bed they made - we're laying in it with them. Whether we want to be or not.

[IndianaGreen]

58. We should have never invaded Iraq

and the only way out of our troubles is to pack our bags and bring the troops home ASAP.

Nothing short of a total American withdrawal, and a hands-off Iraq policy will do.

[oxycontinrush]

29. There is no historical "Iraq" to save.

Iraq was a British concoction.

A three state solution makes the most sense. Screw what the Turks think.

[DuctapeFatwa]

32. Come on now, the US and UK are the sole arbiters of which nation is where

Everybody knows that!

Next you'll be saying some terrorist stuff like other countries aren't even US property.

[pfitz59]

33. Ottomans ruled the area as three states.

Worked for hundreds of years.

[DuctapeFatwa]

39. Well, it didn't work for Halliburton!

And we all know that's what counts.

[Nottingham]

38. Are we seeing the Begiining of a Shia State like Palestinians

Oh are we gonna have fun with this one! :bounce:

Shia's declare their own state Kurds in the North going to war with Turkey ........whats NEXT Condoleeza Rice flying on a Broom! :bounce:

[jumptheshadow]

41. What's next?

The new Shia nation declares a military alliance with the Palestinians, of course. Ariel Sharon will *love* that one.

Was this the dumbest administration in the history of the universe?

[TacticalPeek]

46. Ever is a long time to be the worst in.

:)

[mbperrin]

54. Uh, gee, lemme think....

well, after due consideration and all things considered and a stitch in time saves nine, I'd have to say YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES YES, this is the DUMBEST (and that's the kindest thing I can think of) DAMN misAdministration in this or any other known or unknown universe, including alternates, doubles, mirrors, and ANY OTHER COMBINATION!!!!!!!!!

THESE BASTARDS ARE MORANS! ;^p

[Rex]

61. Just what the BFEE wants

they lost their major cash cow (communism). They had to find a new money train...enter...TERRORISM! This new menace will make them trillions.