Cuba Turns Down U.S. Hurricane Aid Offer

[truthpusher]

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050711/API/507111163

Article published Jul 11, 2005
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Cuba Turns Down U.S. Hurricane Aid Offer
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HAVANA Fidel Castro's communist government, laboring to recover from widespread damage caused by Hurricane Dennis, turned down a U.S. offer of $50,000 in aid, American officials said Monday.

U.S. State Department officials in Havana and Washington said the offer was made on Sunday for emergency supplies.

"Unfortunately, the Castro government declined the offer," State Department spokesman Tom Casey said in Washington.

Cuba, which has not had diplomatic relations with the United States for more than four decades, has routinely turned down occasional offers of humanitarian assistance from the American government following devastating hurricanes.

link: http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050711/API/507111163

[Cha]

1. A matter of

Pride..I'd say.

[malaise]

2. Viva Fidel

Long live Cuba's independent spirit.

[July_July]

47. Viva Cuba!

Only when Fidel kicks the bucket will we see a true "independent spirit" in Cuba

[bahrbearian]

U.S. offer of $50,000 in aid

How Big of US

[underthedome]

4. They really put an offer of $50,000 out there? nm

nm

[Robeson]

21. ONE M1 Abrams tank cost 4.3 million to produce, and we offer them...

...50k. What a fucking insult.

[Miss Chybil]

27. Isn't that how much a pancake breakfast with Bush costs?

Culture of Life my ass.

[mom cat]

3. $50,000 is chump change! If I were Cuba, I would turn it down too.

[bahrbearian]

6. Here ya go Kid , here's a Penny go buy yerself some candy.

[mom cat]

12. That will make up for the fact that I just molested you...Right!

:sarcasm::sarcasm::sarcasm:
edited to repair sour chasm

[NNN0LHI]

5. Lot of countries turn down American assistance

Too many strings attached.

Don

[Zorra]

7. Venezuela already promised Cuba all the aid they needed.

i'm sure that it is substantially more than $50,000.

Cuban leader Fidel Castro vowed a quick recovery, and his oil-rich friend in Venezuela, President Hugo Chavez, promised all the aid needed after Dennis lashed the island from east to west for much of Thursday.

http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/world/12096953.htm

[applegrove]

8. Why don't you F*ing trade with Cuba. That will topple Castro asap.

Would have taken about ten years to dominate the Cuban economy and those people would not have lived in poverty and economic apathy for the last 30 years.

[Massacure]

10. How would trade topple Castro???

I'm confused by that statement.

[applegrove]

15. Socialist leaders in Jamaica kept trading with America and were soon

dominated by huge influxes of tourism dollars. Cuba is huge and has tons of areas that could have been a tourist mecca. Like it was. A Castro cannot just amble along when huge amounts of tourists keep arriving. They all left after the revolution. Then started to come back in isolated ways through European and Canadian trade. Nobody would turn away American tourists and all those dollars if they could help it. You would be talking about doubling everything at the very least. And immediately the government has to come to some sort of agreement with developers that they will not have their properties taken away from them. That when it happended in the 1960s it was to correct horrid faulty investments. And nationalize things so a fairer shake went to locals. With a fairer share of profits - everyone in the country would have gravitated towards the international trade & tourism. And anyone around Castro would see the opportunity. To sell tobacco products to the USA.

That was in the 1970s. Instead Cubans had to worry about being bombed by the CIA. Castro needed that to keep power. Like all tyrants - he turned into a conservative and used any opposition to him as a means of instituting more control. It played into Russia's hands. Could the Russian's have competed with American Risk takers - building beach resorts? No!

Lots of countries went 'a little bit socialist' at the time. And turned themselves around when they had nobody to blame but themselves when things didn't compute under socialist policies. Tanzania. Places that were left alone. And not forced to choose domination by one super-power or another.

[silverpatronus]

17. yeah, and all jamaica has to show for it...

is fancy resorts in ocho rios and negril and mo'bay where the tourists laze and the jamaicans serve, and a dollar that is somewhere in the region of 60-to-1 against the US. trade with the US has done SOME for jamaica, but has hardly been worth it, especially given jamaica's crooked political history.

and if by 'tourist mecca' you mean 'consequence-less playground/whorehouse for the rich'...well then that's exactly what cuba was pre-castro.

[applegrove]

25. I know that is what Cuba was. I am saying socialists took over and

like socialists do - were interested in the redistribution of wealth. New developers who went into Cuba made deals with the Cubans based on a fairer distribution of income on the investment. So instead of mobsters and a poor to non - existent tax system - the country sees more of the benefit of the tourism. I am in no way saying that Cuba wasn't a cesspool in the mid 1950s. I am saying it didn't have to go the way it went. All the American backed terrorism and the cold war intolerance of a country being sort of "red" - took Cuba to where it has been the last 40 years.

For sure there is poverty in Jamaica. But at least it is not the doctors and the educated who are poor. Even the locals get to have half a chance at the jobs. And the wealthy visitors do pay taxes and the like. Has Trenchtown grown? I don't think so. Education has improved. Jamaica is not in the middle of civil war and is not run by elites (of any kind) so much anymore. You can start a small tourist business there. There is an economy. People from Africa kept moving to Jamaica because there was at least a chance there. A better lifestyle even if they were touristy jobs.

[left hand man]

44. I would love to see Jamaica---BUT NOT THE CRIME

Jamaica has many attractions I would love to see---the tropical jungle, the Blue mountains(love the coffee)and the rural areas.But the crime rate against tourists is horrendous.Go to Cuba,they(the locals)treat you well and you can travel around the island with a guide easily(they love your dollars).I know because my brother went there last summer(thru Canada) and loved it.
Nothing to do with this post but he was killed last Dec.7 on his way to work by a tractor trailer crossing the centerline. He spoke 4 languages and read 6. The asshole trucker only cares about his license,and has read nothing more than Field and Stream since high school. fucking waste of a good brother and Liberal.

[silverpatronus]

46. do not be so harsh on jamaica...

they do have crime problems, but they are only just starting to emerge from their checkered political past. it will take time. but things ARE getting better...i was in kingston about a year and a half ago for work and things were very quiet for what was once considered the bandit capital of the caribbean.

[MisterP]

22. Tanzania did what the IMF told them to, and in order to reduce the # of

people dying in hospitals, they're now charging for formerly free hospitals.

[applegrove]

26. What I am saying is that Tanzania tried it one way - that didn't work

so they tried it another. And they blamed nobody but themselves when socialism didn't work out. Because it doesn't work. Neither do IMF structural adjustment. So now they are at the point where they look finally to the real reasons for poverty - internal corruption, lack of infrastructure and lack of access to world markets and capital.

[PaulaFarrell]

30. and look at Jamaica

Had some colleagues go there for work and they were advised (by local colleagues) not to leave the hotel, and certainly not to go anywhere without a local in tow. Jamaica has a multitide of problems, lots of gun crime, and lots of poverty. Cuba may also be poor, but it sounds like its people are better off phsically, although there seems to be lots of political respression. Actually, I've not made it to either place, so I can't judge, but I'd go to Cuba before Jamaica, just based on my perception of personal safety.

[applegrove]

31. Bingo with the gun crime. That is what government intervention is

good at. Stopping gun crime when you have the right laws. Drugs too.

You need a mix of laws. And anyone in Jamaica is going to be able to get their hands on guns because the USA is such a big gun shop.

[silverpatronus]

36. i have been to jamaica

and the assessment is close to correct. while the majority of the population are certainly a wonderful warm people, jamaica has all the problems of most of the english-speaking caribbean, combined with a mean political history that isn't so far behind them. and a lot of that history has the US to blame.

as for 'education improving'...every country in the british west indies has had improvements in education since the end of colonialism less than 50 years ago. a west indian education is one of the top in the world. of course, i say that with no small pride.

we should really have tried to keep the federation together...so much would have been different.

i'd love to go to cuba. unforutnately, i am getting my tertiary education in the US, and as such cannot go there until i graduate. i can imagine going to cuba and then trying to get back into the US. they'd throw me into gitmo.

[PaulaFarrell]

38. i'd also love to go to Cuba

but as a US expat am slightly worried about getting hassled on going back to the states. I hear it's still technically a crime for a US citizen to go to Cuba.

I went to Barbuda (and Antigua) a few years ago - I was really impressed by the school children - so well-mannered, you don't get that in the US/UK anymore.

I read from a different thread that you are a Trinidadian - sorry about your troubles today.

[silverpatronus]

45. yes well

thankfully they've just about ruled out a terrorist attack. thank god. we're having enough problems here lately without throwing bomb-crazy psychos into the mix.

and yeah, i remember my horror the first time i heard a student talk back to a professor in one of my first college classes. it was incredible to me. you just don't do that here. even if you hate your teachers, you respect them. you can disagree, sure, but you don't do it in the tone of voice i heard that day.

[guajira]

39. I have been to both islands and.....

I didn't feel safe in Jamaica. I would never want to return there.

OTOH, Cuba was very safe, and I have returned several times. There I met a tour operator from Jamaica, and he told me that they (Jamaica) "should take a page from Cuba's book"!

Another contrast: on a plane from Jamaica, I met a young man who was coming to the US to work. He was illiterate and asked me to fill out his paperwork.

In Cuba, school is mandatory and free, and there is almost 100% literacy.

Cuba is better than a lot of other countries in the world!!!

[PaulaFarrell]

40. yes, I can't see Jamaica as a model for Cuba to aspire to

Not saying Cuba is problem-free. But I don't know if Cubans would want to trade their lot for that of Jamaicans.

[AlwaysQuestion]

28. The pot calling the kettle black?

You wannna talk poverty. Check the inner cities of America. You have no justification to talk poverty, my dear.

[applegrove]

32. I'm in Canada. Yes I talk about poverty in the US too. Where it is

needless it is a crime. And that is everywhere.

[AlwaysQuestion]

33. So, you're a Canuck citizen or a foreigner living in Canada?

Not that it matters.....

My point is that until such time as we deal with our own poverty be it that of the U.S. or Canada we have no right criticizing other countries. Once we get it right here, we'll be in a position to take our show on the road to other nations. And I don't see that we're ready for prime time yet. That doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't assist nations more deprived than our own, but we haven't yet earned the right to criticize them.

I have heard a wide range of reports concerning Cuba. Here's one perspective.

http://chronicle.uchicago.edu/960411/lessons.shtml

[applegrove]

34. I was criticizing the USA policy of isolating Cuba. That didn't really

work did it? I was comparing Cuba to other countries that had toyed with socialism and seen the error of its ways. Cuba is now a shell. The money is made in capitalist industries and then shared. But people do not have much and there is terrible waste. What a shame for Cuba which is a huge country. So big and so close to the USA that it should have had all the benefits we Canadians have gotten by living so close to that market. And poverty in Canada is not like in parts of the USA. Drugs and racism play a part. But good schools and government help - push many to a standard of living which is essentially middle class.

That rarely happens in Cuba. They were shoved towards the Soviet Union and parroted much of that. A somewhat benevolent dictator is still in power who has no choice but to never resign.

Those people don't get to vote.

[AlwaysQuestion]

35. Another late nighter, eh?

Didn't work or was I too obtuse not to pick up on your intended meaning? It's a helluva hour to expect this brain to be operating. Yeah, let me blame it on the hour.

I'm not a great proponent of capitalism and socialism sure has its flaws. Time to search out some new ways to structure ourselves. But,hell,not tonight.

[applegrove]

9. Seems like people no longer like American Aid so much.

[Just Me]

11. 50K is an insult and it's not "aid".

Incredible.

[evirus]

13. eh...

their loss i guess

[Minstrel Boy]

14. What an embarrassment.

Even I would turn it down.

[Garfield Goose]

16. He'd turn down 100 million from the U.S.

His pride and saving face are more important than helping Cuba's citizens.

[silverpatronus]

18. cuba is getting the help it needs from venezuela

at far better terms for its own national interests. at this point in US history, i wouldn't trust any aid offered either.

[manic expression]

20. The Cuban government has been helping

Cuba's citizens since 1959, while America has strangled the island and its people through embargoes. Cuba SHOULD reject US aid regardless of the amount, since America has done nothing to help Cuba, and will only use it as an opportunity to exploit Cuba and ruin it's achievements.

Cuba will be able to provide for the Cuban people (and Venezuela will help with the rest).

[AlwaysQuestion]

29. Cuba would simply be showing compassion for the U.S.

Much better that the 100 million be spent on U.S. poverty. I'm a great believer in charity begins at home.

[ima_sinnic]

43. how would even $US100 million "help Cuba's citizens"?

... the strings attached would negate any "help."
it's not "pride" or "saving face"--he knows the US government is treacherous and does NOTHING simply for "the good of humanity." there is ALWAYS a profit motive somewhere. Castro chooses not to sell out his people to the U.S. and he should be respected for that.

[oasis]

19. Take that fifty grand, roll it ito a tight wad, then shove it up your ass.

That's what Fidel told them in Spanish.

[manic expression]

23. Cuba to US: "tuercas"........n/t

[cprise]

24. Good move.

Cuba refused the chump-change, and now the WH press sec'y and the media cannot make generalized statements about "US hurricane relief to Cuba".

[Niccolo_Macchiavelli]

37. Fear he Danaeans even if they bring presents.

and especially if they want to bring freedom and democracy all along

[Bridget Burke]

42. "Freedom" & "Democracy" are painted on the horse.

But the Cubans know what it really holds.

[guajira]

41. Cuba Saved Key West - and the Fkn Idiot offers $50,000???

The POS in the WH is the worst president I have seen in my lifetime!!

I have a thousand times more respect for Fidel Castro than for *GWB.