US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops

[DoYouEverWonder]

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=452375

US soldiers bulldoze farmers' crops
Americans accused of brutal 'punishment' tactics against villagers, while British are condemned as too soft
By Patrick Cockburn in Dhuluaya

12 October 2003

US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.

<snip>

Other farmers said that US troops had told them, over a loudspeaker in Arabic, that the fruit groves were being bulldozed to punish the farmers for not informing on the resistance which is very active in this Sunni Muslim district.

"They made a sort of joke against us by playing jazz music while they were cutting down the trees," said one man. Ambushes of US troops have taken place around Dhuluaya. But Sheikh Hussein Ali Saleh al-Jabouri, a member of a delegation that went to the nearby US base to ask for compensation for the loss of the fruit trees, said American officers described what had happened as "a punishment of local people because 'you know who is in the resistance and do not tell us'." What the Israelis had done by way of collective punishment of Palestinians was now happening in Iraq, Sheikh Hussein added.

<snip>

The children of one woman who owned some fruit trees lay down in front of a bulldozer but were dragged away, according to eyewitnesses who did not want to give their names. They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation. When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it. The same paper quotes Lt Col Springman, a US commander in the region, as saying: "We asked the farmers several times to stop the attacks, or to tell us who was responsible, but the farmers didn't tell us."

Everyday I read about another atrocity committed by US forces and I am ashamed for what our country has turned into.

[arcane1]

1. where is that moral high ground I keep hearing about?

I suppose the possibility that the farmers DIDN'T KNOW never occurred to anyone?

:grr::mad::grr:

[kayell]

24. Even if they knew, this is unconscionable

Do we bulldoze the homes of city residents who don't turn in drug dealers? Could these people (if they know) be afraid of retaliation? Who is more evil here? The Iraqis must be having a hard time telling - or more likely it's becoming easy to pick the real evil now.

Added: Even aside from the ethical considerations, this is just plain stupid. Guaruanteed to turn more Iraqis into serious resistance fighters.

[chapter32]

45. Absolutely…

These are very poor folks. Their little belongings are now bulldozed. No American should stand for this. Aren’t we embarrassed that in our names our government invade, occupy, and now bulldoze poor farmers little assets?

[morebunk]

47. Adopting Israeli tactics...that's taking the high ground?

We must get these heathens of out of office both here and in Israel.

[dArKeR]

50. Where are the moral American Media reports on this?

[cprise]

57. I can't believe how despicable this country is becoming

:(

[Occulus]

60. I'd like to point out

that it isn't the USA as a whole or in concept that's the problem; the problems lie with the ones at the top.

[Malikshah]

87. "The ones at the top" issue is to easy

The troops should have refused. I support troops--but not those that did this. They should be ashamed of themselves. They disgrace the uniforms and the flag with these actions.

Unduly harsh sentiment?

Nope-- If you don't stand up for basic human rights....

The fact that the media in the US is not reporting this shows that blaming the ones giving the orders isn't enough.

End
Of
Story

[MaineDem]

2. I am embarrassed - and outraged! (n/t)

.

[UpInArms]

3. tearing a page from Sharon's notebook of evil

we destroy and maim and alienate ...

then this misadministration has the gall to wonder why the world hates us.

I hate what they have made our country. And I do mean "they" - this is despicable and unequivocably an atrocity.

:nuke:

[ConcernedCanuk]

9. "tearing a page from Sharon's notebook of evil" Not quite right !

. . . If there's ONE book that Juniour and his "gang of thugs" have studied from front to back

This would be the one

Just My Humble Canuck Opinion

[UpInArms]

20. okay - so not tearing a page -

borrowing the book - copying it and making all the same f***ing plays - these are atrocities and they shame me :(

[Whoa_Nelly]

4. More than an occupation

"...as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information..."

This is a serfdom! :wtf:

Asked how much his lost orchard was worth, Nusayef Jassim said in a distraught voice: "It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."


How cruel! What a way to get more Iraqis involved in accepting a democracy.

[burrowowl]

5. Hey (sarcasm)

now they can buy oranges from Florida, dates from California, etc.
Good for U$A business. Now where are those immigrant workers to pick it all. Oh! Terminator said to terminate them!. (sarcasm off)

[DUreader]

19. "lol... "it's a business scandal, not a human rights scandal..."

Shades of Enron

Too bad its not funny, no doubt plans have been drawn up to

control populations by engineered dependency on food and likely

some kind of displacement ("cleansing" as it is often called)

Any odds on a US news outlet focussing on this?

[UpInArms]

21. I'll give you the odds

slim to none

[Mikimouse]

6. What a terrific legacy for what was once

the most progressive nation in the middle east. Wow, we certainly know how to win the hearts and minds, don't we? I think that by now, even the farmers who may not have been involved in the attacks have figured out how to get their country back. I will not say it, because we don't need anymore flame wars about this.

[DuctapeFatwa]

7. Reducing the Iraqi population will make it safer for Israeli settlers

Just wait till they get all the crops destroyed AND end the UN food program!

Not only will it help Israel establish the first settlements in the New Iraq, it will help US troops secure the oil facilities, too!

[PsychoDad]

55. I also heard...

That the occupation government plans to end the distrabution of bread and olive oil, along with other foodstufs which were the right of all Iraqi citizens under the evil saddam regeme.

This and the distruction of farms and orchards is a sure set up for famine.

[DuctapeFatwa]

78. Yes, that's the UN program. Bremer says it is socialist

Some huge % of Iraqis depend on it, obviously more than ever since the Crusaders trashed the place.

[maggrwaggr]

8. I am ashamed

The man said:

"It is as if someone cut off my hands and you asked me how much my hands were worth."

This is worse than anything the Russians did in Afghanistan

[bemildred]

10. Can you say VietNam?

Stupid stupid stupid.

[The Magistrate]

12. Perhaps There Is Not Yet Sufficient Opposition There, My Friend

This is sure to create a few more resistance fighters....

[bemildred]

13. Heh.

:hi:

[Mikimouse]

14. Magistrate, I am so glad to see that you are around!

Does this thread remind you of the last such, when you were getting flamed right and left? I think that this type of insanity on our part simply underscores the necessity of what you were arguing at the time. I don't have a link to the discussion, but feel confident that you remember it. :hi: :hippie:

[Book Lover]

11. But I'm supposed to blindly "support our troops" (nm)

[It was not a pretzel]

15. Eastern Front 1942

What are they going to do when they come back next week and ask again? Destroy the villages? Shoot every tenth person?

[burrowowl]

17. Shoot

every 5th, put the rest in shackles to work in the oil fields, etc.
The destruction of the farms is a war crime, I think. Anyone know?

[fizzana]

16. I'm sure this violates a bunch of Internatinal laws as well as

the Geneva Convention.

[kayell]

31. Geneva Conventions Protical 1, Article 54

2 and 4 would seem to apply.

Art. 54. Protection of objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population

1. Starvation of civilians as a method of warfare is prohibited.

2. It is prohibited to attack, destroy, remove or render useless objects indispensable to the survival of the civilian population, such as food-stuffs, agricultural areas for the production of foodstuffs, crops, livestock, drinking water installations and supplies and irrigation works, for the specific purpose of denying them for their sustenance value to the civilian population or to the adverse Party, whatever the motive, whether in order to starve out civilians, to cause them to move away, or for any other motive.

3. The prohibitions in paragraph 2 shall not apply to such of the objects covered by it as are used by an adverse Party: (a) as sustenance solely for the members of its armed forces; or (b) if not as sustenance, then in direct support of military action, provided, however, that in no event shall actions against these objects be taken which may be expected to leave the civilian population with such inadequate food or water as to cause its starvation or force its movement.

4. These objects shall not be made the object of reprisals.

5. In recognition of the vital requirements of any Party to the conflict in the defence of its national territory against invasion, derogation from the prohibitions contained in paragraph 2 may be made by a Party to the conflict within such territory under its own control where required by imperative military necessity.


Added: Found this index to the Geneva Conventions here. http://www.globalissuesgroup.com/geneva/definitions2.html

[teryang]

51. Reprisals, that will make it worse

The morans are in charge. Civil affairs neo con style. The officer commanding that unit should be dismissed.


Thanks for the reference.

[Pastiche423]

58. Do you know

how far up those types of orders go? Or IOW, at what level does the command start w/?

I know zilch about the string of commands.

[teryang]

91. As a matter of fact, I don't know but....

One would have to wonder if some dumb ass platoon leader or company commander is extemporizing his own idiotic policy on the spot, or whether some battalion or brigade commander came up with it. I don't think you could become a general by being this stupid. Who knows?

Someone in the chain is responsible as a matter of fact. Either by affirmative act or by negligence. ROE, training and operations are all implicated. One possibility is that the attempt to extort cooperation was a command decision at some tactical level and not a policy established by higher level commanders. If a platoon sergeant came up with this his lieutenant would reap the appropriate penalties. Perhaps even the company commander. If the company commander came up with it, his battalion commander should go down with him. If the Battalion commander came up with it as a plan. His boss at the brigade level might have to go to for failure to create the correct command atmosphere in dealing with the civilians. And so on up the chain.

Of course I note here that there is a general inability among troops in combat areas to perceive the negative ramifications of such acts. They view it as self defense. After all, they could have killed or brutalized someone instead of just destroying their property and livelihood. Personally, I would have rather taken a beating or worse than lose the way I put bread on the table for my family.

[Malikshah]

88. Thanks.

Am bookmarking link and linking to story. Will have at work on door.

[htuttle]

104. Collective Punishment is also a war crime

Prohibited in Part 3, Section I, Art. 33.

No protected person may be punished for an offence he or she has not personally committed. Collective penalties and likewise all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited.

It seems that the commander of that unit is openly calling it a 'new policy of collective punishment.' That's an open confession of a criminal policy.

[Ouabache]

106. all measures of intimidation or of terrorism are prohibited

We have met the terrorist, and he is us, in this case.

[rocktivity]

98. Don't you know that under Bush Regime, the Geneva Convention doesn't apply

unless the ENEMY is violating it?


rocknation

On edit: Check out today's Baghdad Burning:

...Dhuluaya is an area...popular for its wonderful date palms, citrus trees and grape vines. The majority of the people who live in the area are simple landowners who have been making a living off of the orchards they’ve been cultivating for decades.

...Every bit of a palm is an investment. The fronds and leaves are dried and used (for)...baskets, brooms, mats, bags, hats, wall hangings and even...roofing. The...thick, heavy wood at their ends...are used to make lovely, seemingly delicate furniture similar to the bamboo chairs and tables of the Far East. The low-quality dates...are used as animal feed for cows and sheep. Some of the date pits are the source of a sort of ‘date oil’ that can be used for cooking...

Palm trees are often planted...(to)...provide shade for citrus trees, which whither under the Iraqi sun. Depending on the type...it takes an average of 5-7 years for most palms to bear fruit...(Thus)...the death of a palm tree is taken very seriously...I remember one wrinkled (farmer's) face holding up 4 oranges from the ground...and screaming at the camera “Is this freedom? Is this democracy?!”

[BeFree]

18. Iraq is Free! Right?

But.... free nations wouldn't destroy other free nation's groves, would they?. Sheesh..

[eileen_d]

22. Rumsfield's famous "Iraq has 100 newspapers" quote

looks pretty shoddy in this light:

When a reporter from the newspaper Iraq Today attempted to take a photograph of the bulldozers at work a soldier grabbed his camera and tried to smash it.

But honestly that is probably the least atrocious thing about the events reported in this article. :mad:

Edit: Here is Rumsfeld's quote:
"You know I just came in from Baghdad, and there are now 100 newspapers in the free press in Iraq - in the free Iraq - where people are able to say whatever they wish, people are debating, people are discussing, something they had not done for decades," he said.

http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,7231404%255E1702,00.html

[fizzana]

23. A letter in today's LA Times

Reading about Commander A's complaint that U.S. forces degrade Iraqis made me think about the young U.S. Marine I met last Sunday in the lobby of the Palm Springs Hilton Hotel. He said that he had just arrived from Iraq three days earlier, and with surprising enthusiasm told me: "I can't wait to get back!" I could sense the rush of adrenaline flowing throughout his body as he demonstrated for me the new language he had learned.

After blurting out a phrase in Arabic, he translated it: "Get down on the ground, !" Another burst, then, "Get up, !" I couldn't help but wonder how many "terrorists" we are creating ourselves. God bless and watch over our troops.

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/letters/la-le-kubeck11oct11,1,7534602.story?coll=la-news-comment-letters

This says it all.

[bahrbearian]

27. How much money is the V.A. going to need to Straight'en out this one

[Walt Starr]

25. Didn't the Germans practice this sort of crap in the 1930's and 40's?

Seriously, we are losing this war!

[BiggJawn]

49. Yes they did. What's next? Machine-Gun every 10th old man?

Raze a village so completely you can't tell there was ever a village there?
Let's see, what else did the SS do to keep the "stupid fucking pigs" in line?

Oh, here's a little gem I dug up:
"...The NAZIs did not just kill Jews. The NAZI goal in the East was to Germanize it. One of their methods was to simply kill the people already there. Those who remained were to be an educated slave population for the German Reich... The Germans would round up civilians that they deemed "uncooperative" and simply shoot them. Not overt act was needed to be seized by the Germans...The Germans were particularly brutal in the Ukraine and Crimea because of their desire to seize the rsources and safeguard transportation lines to the oil fields of the Caucauses..."

"Safeguard transportation lines to the OIL FIELDS..."

Hitler's chief architect of the policy of brutal reprisals was one Reihard Heydrich, a thug whom I believe that Doenitz kicked out of the Kriegsmarine for immoral conduct involving a staff officer's daughter. When he finally "got his" in 1942...

"...In May, 1942, Heydrich was shot by Czech resistance fighters living in exile. A few days later, Heydrich, who had been "Reichsprotektor" of Bohemia and Moravia, died from his injuries. As a result, the SS took possession of the czech village Lidice and killed all male inhabitants over the age of 16 years. Meanwhile, 1,331 Czechs, among them more than 200 women, were executed in Prague."

So how long before Bremer isn't satisfied with bulldozing just trees belonging to "uncooperative" Iraqis?

[arcane1]

26. anyone see Frontline the other night? A similar incedent..

but caught on film: about 4 Iraqis and a child were in a car, with about 20 pcs of wood, 3 ft long, strapped on top ofthe car. US forces said they were looting the wood, so as punishment for looting, they shoot the car full of bullet holes, then SMASH it with a tank, TWICE! Soldier says that's what they get for looting..

the owner of the car was a taxi driver, the car was his livelihood


:grr:


this might be available at pbs.org

[minkyboodle]

36. I was thinking the same thing arcane1

I hate to say this but it seemed like the US soldier
interviewed during the process was enjoying it. The
whole thing just didn't make much sense.
Scott

[Lorien]

28. "winning hearts and minds"?

This horrific behavior will only lead to MORE attacks and terrorism.I can't imagine the injustice of theses acts being lost on anyone from EITHER side! What have we become? I'm at the point where I no longer want to call myself an American. :-( :grr:

[cosmicdot]

29. palm trees, some 70 years old

yeah, that should bring normalcy to Iraq

so, is this part of Condi's new team effort?

[UpInArms]

30. here's another link and

a picture


Iraqi farms razed by U.S. forces

http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-10/10/article11.shtml

[qanda]

34. Oh God, please help these people

That is so sad!

[mbperrin]

39. Now, THAT's how to win the

hearts and minds of......EVIL FUCKERS like Rummy and Sharon!!!!

No, wait, shouldn't we be trying to.....never mind!

[spooked]

66. Different REASON given for the Bulldozing in this article!!

In the islam-online article link you posted, the REAL REASON given for the bulldozing is NOT retaliation:

"Claiming his lush date and orange groves provide camouflage for resistance fighters, the U.S. occupation forces leveled Khalil's plantations."


It's because they provide CAMOUFLAGE for resistance fighters! Now, we can understand our "MORAL HIGH GROUND"....at least we're not using NAPALM, right??!!



http://www.islam-online.net/English/News/2003-10/10/article11.shtml

[maggrwaggr]

32. I can't quit thinking about this. This is the WORST karma

we could possibly hope to have.

This is right up there with the Taliban bombing the Buddha statues.

This is so incredibly wrong.

I'm gonna have trouble sleeping over this one.

[PennyLane]

61. That's Right

We are heading down a dangerous road, by pulling this kind of atrocity. They keep trying to paint this rosy picture of how the Iraqis love us, but how can they?

[qanda]

33. Well, at least one soldier

Had enough of a heart left to cry. Maybe it will be safer for America if those soldiers, who have been carrying out these heartless orders, stay in Iraq. They won't be worth much socially after performing such cruel deeds. How are they supposed to come back here and be normal after having to do these things?

[Lindacooks]

35. Every single goddamn time

the repukes are on the wrong side of an issue. EVERY TIME! No morals, no conscience, no thoughts except greed and cruelty.

[rocktivity]

37. Ain't liberation great?

This must be the progress that Pickles and Cheney was talking about. By the way, how do they know that the farmers knows who the guerillas are? Haven't the troops been the victims of bad intelligence often enough?


rocknation

[okieinpain]

38. we just lost the war, there will be no let up now. how could

anyone be so stupid, those trees probably go back generations, and we just destroyed them. they will all turn against us, and fight without question.

[foreigncorrespondent]

40. Iraq is not the 51st state of America.

They have no rights to do this period! I am so disgusted I am lost for words.

[dbt]

41. Bad enough what we're doing to the Iraqi people

and now we've got to start pissing off Mother Earth. When the Lightning does strike us, it's going to be fierce!

:scared:
dbt

[Shakespeare]

42. That's one of the worst acts of animosity in that part of the world...

I recall watching a national geographic piece a year or so ago with Sebastian Junger on the situation in Afghanistan. A village was in an uproar, because an elderly man's fruit tree had been cut down by his enemies.

After interviewing several Afghans, he reported that because of the desert-like climate, it takes DECADES for a fruit tree to reach maturity and produce fruit, and a family fortunate enough to have such a tree values it highly. To destroy such a tree is considered a shocking act of insult and aggression.

I'm sickened by our actions over there.

[2cents]

43. You mean to tell me...

...they're not outsourcing the dozing? Wait till Haliburton hears about this. <sarcasm>

It's unnecessarily cruel to force folks to choose between losing their crops or possibly losing their lives by ratting out their countrymen.

Seems to me you'd catch more flies with honey.

[Dr Fate]

44. Now I see why they "hate our freedom"...

...with "freedom" like this, who needs Saddam...

[R Hickey]

46. Bush cuts down Iraq's orchards while asking for billions to rebuild

In the PNAC game-plan, the US is supposed to act billigerent and encourage hostile action, to "Bring them on."

Retribution by irate Iraqi's means esclation by the US, which is what the PNAC plan calls for.

Bush's flippant UN speech with its red-herring about 'sex-tourism' is so irrelevant as to be insulting to most delegate's intelligence, and makes sense only to those who suspect that Bush was behind the UN headquaters bombing. The PNAC wants the UN out of Iraq. The other simular big bomb, killing the political cleric at a mosque, looks a little like Bush's bomb, too.

Whether it's blasting carloads of Iraqi police or mowing down crowds of peacefull Iraqi demonstrators, or even the simple vandalism of drunken GI's killing a caged tiger in the Baghdad Zoo, whether we're cutting down ancient orchards or allowing historical museums and libraries to be looted and burned, these actions may seem counter-productive to the Fox-News and Clear-Channel-duped US taxpayers, taxpayers ordered to ante up billions to rebuild Iraq. But there is a good reason that Bush doesn't care, and the reason is because all this is written out in his PNAC play-book.

It is all going fine for Halliburton. Bush's friends own the media, they control Congress and the Courts, Arnold will be on the ticket in the VP spot, and Bush's contributers will supply as many hundreds of millions of dollars as it takes to get him re-selected. Everything is going to plan.

[leesa]

48. Gosh, they are learning so quickly from Israel!

How to win the hearts and minds....

[eridani]

52. Let's starve 'em while we're at it

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1058867,00.html

A more substantial assault on Saddam's legacy is under way in the Republican Palace, where the occupation authority is making preparations to dismantle the food distribution system which gave free rations of flour, rice, cooking oil and other staples to every Iraqi.

Described by the UN as the world's most efficient food network, the system still keeps Iraqis from going hungry. But the US civilian administrator of Iraq, Paul Bremer, views it as a dangerous socialist anachronism. The coalition provisional authority (CPA) is planning to abolish it in January, despite warnings from its own technical experts that this could lead to hunger and riots.

[Zhade]

63. THIS IS GENOCIDE.

Deliberately cutting off food supplies is tantamount to sentencing thousands--MILLIONS--to death!

THIS MUST BE STOPPED! We are becoming the new Nazi Germany! We have to stop these madmen!

[DuctapeFatwa]

79. Yes, you are correct. It is genocide and Iraq is only the beginning

The other nations of the world have two choices: Form their own coalition of the willing and liberate US or sit quietly and wait to be exterminated.

[Zhade]

82. We haven't given them much incentive to liberate us.

I only hope we give them more of an incentive.

This is insanity. I never, ever thought I'd see this in my lifetime. But I'm ready to fight against it with all that I have.

[DuctapeFatwa]

85. You are right. Sadly, most of the affluent voting class supports it

Those who don't tend to be the marginalized, voiceless majority so eloquently noted by Rev. Sharpton in the recent "debate" infotainment special.

[hussar]

53. Thank God I'm a soft British guy

I can't believe this is allowed to happen, you know when people ask me "do you believe in God" I just turn around and say how the fuck can I when shit like this is allowed to happen.

BTW Brit vet, 2 tours aiming to be a counselor

[dbt]

67. Thank God(dess) Britain has a Free Press!

:evilgrin:
dbt

[0007]

77. No free press here, 'eh?

Just pigs and pig shit and sheep.

[eridani]

54. And point guns at kids peeing by the side of the road

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0929-09.htm

A little Iraqi girl -- no more than eight years old -- squatted beside the road with tears of humiliation streaming down her cheeks. Six meters away, three American soldiers had their rifles aimed at her as she was forced to relieve herself in full view of a long line of parked cars. From inside their vehicles, the Iraqi onlookers screamed their rage at the U.S. troops. Whenever one of the Iraqis ventured to step out of his vehicle, an American officer bellowed, "Get back in the car, a--hole!" and the .50-caliber machinegun mounted on the U.S. Hummer would swing menacingly towards the protester.

The terrified little girl was weeping uncontrollably by the time she dropped her skirt and ran back to her mother.
Two days after the incident at the Samara-Kirkuk roadblock, I was given a personal taste of Iraqi animosity towards Americans.
I had felt the sharp jolt immediately, but only as the pain registered in my forearm did I realize that I had been struck by a rock. I turned in time to see a young boy throw a second stone, which narrowly missed my head. The boy then ran back to a crowded pickup truck where his family was cheering him on.

I had been filming the traffic backlog on the Baghdad-Mosul highway when the incident occurred, and all along the densely packed roadway, Iraqis began honking their horns and screaming anti-American phrases at me.

[maggrwaggr]

56. I just wrote to the Dean campaign, the Clark campaign, and two

newspapers about this.

This HAS to be reported. This story HAS to get out there.

C'mon, everybody, shout this story out to everybody you can think of.

[Dover]

59. Well now this sounds very familiar.....Remember this?

Bushco wants to be just like Sharon...

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/october01/0110015.html

If All Rabbis Were Like Arik Ascherman, Middle East Peace Would Be Attainable

By Pat McDonnell Twair

Viewers of CNN news probably are familiar with Rabbi Arik Ascherman, the tall, thin bearded man who places himself before Israeli bulldozers on their way to demolish Palestinian homes or olive groves. There he stands—until Israeli soldiers drag him away.

The American-born, Harvard-educated idealist explains that he had an epiphany during the sixth and seventh months of the current intifada. It was then that he graduated from protesting the war against civilians to performing acts of resistance, such as defying bulldozers and trying to refill ditches blockading Palestinian villages.

“I’ve moved to a different space,” he said recently in Los Angeles, which he visited as part of a nationwide American tour. “I am trying to get through to the average Israeli, to make him understand the wholesale war that is being waged against the non-combatant Palestinian population.”....>>

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/october01/0110015.html

[Zhade]

62. Remind me WHY we are supposed to support the troops again???

This is INSANE!

[Judi Lynn]

64. Thanks for informing us of this new level of cruelty in Iraq

Do you remember that in the last couple of weeks Bush officials and other Republican talking heads all joined in a campaign to tell the American people that our own media only show the most negative aspects of the war and occupation?

This campaign had them all coming out at the same time, bringing the same message, that if the American people don't approve of what they're doing, it's because we are being shown only the most distorted, garish incidents, and are NOT being shown the WONDERFUL progress they are making.

Looks like they wanted to try to beat down, warn the media, to discourage them from telling us about new "negative" actions our officials will be implementing in Iraq and elsewhere.

[dbt]

65. JudiLyn, this AIN'T our own media

It belongs totally, wholly and willfully to George W. Bush's puppet masters. It sees the truth and chooses not to tell it.

It is content to have King George blame it for helping ruin the economy, through its incessant "March To War" mantra of the last 13 (what an intersting number) months. It feels justified somehow to have the King scold it for "protecting its sources."

It will die trying to show these late atrocities (and there's no other word that fits!) in an "upbeat" manner.

With its last breath, US Media will murmur to its lover/murderer bu$h:

"Sodom me."

:hurts:
dbt

[VLC98]

89. I just e-mailed CNN

to ask why they haven't reported on this. (Sticking my neck out a bit because I haven't actually watched CNN today, but it wasn't mentioned on their website). I doubt I'll receive a response, but they may report me to the secret police, so I'll be packing a suitcase in a minute.

[spooked]

68. DIFFERENT REASON given for Bulldozing in IslamOnline article!

Check my post #66...Bulldozing as retaliation is NOT the REAL REASON for this atrocity.

[Judi Lynn]

69. Isn't that the reason the Israeli's gave for bulldozing the olive orchards

the Palestinian farmers used for their livelihood in areas near the settlements?

[Dover]

72. Yes...that is EXACTLY what the Israeli troops said was the reason

they destroyed Palestinian orchards.

[truthisfreedom]

70. please provide a link to

your post.

[spooked]

71. link...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=162226&mesg_id=162793&page=

[quaker bill]

73. A fine way

To win the "hearts and minds" of the people. This thing is unravelling in a very dramatic way.

We need to get this kind of news out to the masses as much as possible.

[psychopomp]

74. WTF?

This is soooo stupid. And on top of the obvious barbaric qualities, they had to use JAZZ, thus besmirching one of the few, great, original contributions of the United States to world culture.

Dumb, really dumb.

[0007]

75. Who gave this order?

Will junior ever hear of this deed? If so, how will he justify it to the world and most importantly to the embarrassment of the American people.

This act just brought more terrorist into the fight.

[Robb]

76. Thank Koresh for our Free Press

...Everyone writing their letters to U.S. media outlets?

[calm_blue_ocean]

80. Harry Shearer of LeShow (NPR) . . .

read this story on his show just now.

I have a heard time imagining soldiers who would do that listening to music as intellectually sophisticated as jazz.

I hope jazz becomes the new protest music of Iraq.

[Voltaire99]

81. America, hang your guilty head in shame!

"They said that one American soldier broke down and cried during the operation."

At least one had a functioning moral imagination. But it was apparently just fine for the other Stormtroopers.

Let those Democrats who have supportedthis immoral operation and still hide behind the feeble excuse of "oh, I don't like it, but we've got no choice now" - you know who you are - lead the apologies.

[DoYouEverWonder]

83. This is why Iraq needs UN Peacekeepers

Now!

[SOS]

84. Collective punishment

is simply immoral and unjustifiable.
Maybe the US should bulldoze the McVeigh family home, set fire to the the yard, arrest the parents and give them life sentences without a trial.
After all, if Tim McVeigh came home for Christmas, they were harboring a terrorist!

[farmbo]

86. 100 years to grow...15 minutes to destroy: the Bush Doctrine at work

Doesn't this just make you swell up with red, white & blue pride?

:puke:

[saskatoon]

90. Do you know how long it takes

for a tree to bear fruit! And then can you imaGINE THAT POOR LITTLE SOLDIER breaking down and crying--I'm sitting here with tears in my eyes and imagining him as a US farm boy who loves the land and knows what it takes to raise fruit trees and other crops and knows how cruel and unfeeling this is. I feel so sorry for that poor kid.

[Dhalgren]

103. Misplaced simpathy.

Feel sorry for the poor people the soldier was crying for. His tears were aimed in the right place.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

105. Well said. Also, I fear...

...that soldier is going to take flak for his "deviant" sympathy for the "enemy". I hope not.

By the way, this post is doubling as a KICK.

[Barrett808]

92. Riverbend has a bit more

http://riverbendblog.blogspot.com

Soon after the occupation, many of the palms on these streets were hacked down by troops for ‘security reasons’. We watched, horrified, as they were chopped down and dragged away to be laid side by side in mass graves overflowing with brown and wilting green. Although these trees were beautiful, no one considered them their livelihood. Unlike the trees Patrick Cockburn describes in Dhuluaya.

Several orchards in Dhuluaya are being cut down… except it’s not only Dhuluaya… it’s also Ba’aquba, the outskirts of Baghdad and several other areas. The trees are bulldozed and trampled beneath heavy machinery. We see the residents and keepers of these orchards begging the troops to spare the trees, holding up crushed branches, leaves and fruit- not yet ripe- from the ground littered with a green massacre. The faces of the farmers are crushed and amazed at the atrocity. I remember one wrinkled face holding up 4 oranges from the ground, still green (our citrus fruit ripens in the winter) and screaming at the camera- “Is this freedom? Is this democracy?!” And his son, who was about 10, stood there with tears of rage streaming down his cheeks and quietly said, “We want 5 troops dead for each tree they cut down… five troops.” A “terrorist”, perhaps? Or a terrorized child who had to watch his family’s future hacked down in the name of democracy and freedom?

Patrick Cockburn says that Dhuluaya is a Sunni area- which is true. Sunnis dominate Dhuluaya. What he doesn’t mention is that the Khazraji tribe, whose orchards were assaulted, are a prominent Shi’a tribe in Iraq.

For those not interested in reading the article, the first line summarizes it perfectly, “US soldiers driving bulldozers, with jazz blaring from loudspeakers, have uprooted ancient groves of date palms as well as orange and lemon trees in central Iraq as part of a new policy of collective punishment of farmers who do not give information about guerrillas attacking US troops.”

…which reminds me of another line from an article brought to my attention yesterday…
“A dozen years after Saddam Hussein ordered the vast marshes of southeastern Iraq drained, transforming idyllic wetlands into a barren moonscape to eliminate a hiding place for Shiite Muslim political opponents…”

Déjà vu, perhaps? Or maybe the orchards differ from the marshlands in that Saddam wasn’t playing jazz when he dried up the marshlands…

[DoYouEverWonder]

93. We have no idea

How terrifying it must be to live in Iraq.

We've got their oil, why can't we just leave these for people alone.

Thanks for the link. This story just gets worse and worse.

[Matilda]

94. Kick!

[OldEurope]

95. uh, are these the guys that believe in Jesus? And the christian

values?

:scared:

[DoYouEverWonder]

97. You know what they say

By their deeds ye shall know them.

Wasn't the antichrist suppose to deceive everyone into believing he was the christ? Gee and after 9-11, didn't W tell his staff that he had been selected by god? So here's the world's biggest christian with a direct link to the almighty, who in reality is anything but a christian? Mmm?

[Occulus]

107. You're not the only one

who shares that eerie feeling.

Brrrr.

[VolcanoJen]

96. Kick!

:dem:

[DemonFighterLives]

99. Thanks Volcano Jen

I should have known the wonderful DU'ers would be up in arms over this. I created a dupe thread when I got the article from my brother. We grew up on a farm and this really tears at our hearts and it must really be rough on the Iraqis.
A caller came on Cspan and just read some of the article. Amazing thing happened. They cut away to listen to monkeyman rattle on about columbus day. Bush discovers America. Bring em on.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

100. If RW whackos had a heart

They could turn it into excellent pro-Administration propaganda: find out the units responsible, throw the entire book on them, hang them out to dry. Send some units there to replant their land and issue a humble apology, in the most public way possible.

Yes, the repugs would profit greatly from this, and it wouldn't be so expensive... but they'd have to have a heart.

[rman]

101. Vietnam and Israel all rolled into one. nt

-

[Aristus]

102. Oh Lordy!

'Ve heff vays to make you tock!' has been replaced with 'We got ourselves ways ta make y'all talk, now, ya hear?'

God, this is Fascism, pure and simple.

[Undemcided]

108. Hardly a good way to win 'Hearts & minds'.

n/t

[jayfish]

109. Kick!

Not allowed to die just yet.

Jay