Clark's rise in military impressed and rankled observers

[wyldwolf]

Article gives both positive and somewhat negative viewpoints of Clark's military career. The most telling quotes, though, are Any problem Clark had with higher-ups in the Pentagon was due to "professional jealousy" by officials who had trouble with a highly intelligent man who made his case with solid evidence and debated vigorously...

and

At the root of this conflict, Taylor said, was jealousy of a "superstar" by Clark's superiors at the Pentagon. "Shelton and Cohen didn't like Wes being direct with them, arguing his case," Taylor said. "They wanted someone they could tell what to do."

-----------------------
After prosecuting NATO's first war by uniting its 19 countries and defeating the Yugoslav Army with no alliance casualties, the four-star general had ruffled enough feathers at the Pentagon that his career abruptly ended.

"Wes could not possibly be a better leader," Taylor said. "I really respect Wes in a very special way for his brilliance. But he's also a man of real character and high personal values."

Any problem Clark had with higher-ups in the Pentagon was due to "professional jealousy" by officials who had trouble with a highly intelligent man who made his case with solid evidence and debated vigorously, Taylor said.

"The guy, when he starts doing something, is exhaustively focused on achieving the mission," said retired Gen. Barry McCaffrey, who has known Clark since the two taught at West Point decades ago. He preceded Clark as commander of U.S. Southern Command.

The tension with Washington stemmed partly from the failure of bureaucrats to give Clark resources he needed as the commander on the scene, Grange said.

During and after the conflict there was friction between Clark and his superiors, Joint Chiefs of Staff Chairman Gen. Hugh Shelton and Defense Secretary William Cohen, apparently over Clark's high-profile persona and his willingness to challenge them.

At the root of this conflict, Taylor said, was jealousy of a "superstar" by Clark's superiors at the Pentagon. "Shelton and Cohen didn't like Wes being direct with them, arguing his case," Taylor said. "They wanted someone they could tell what to do."

more...

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/News/Nation/AB925B9C76D6B82686256DBC00375519?OpenDocument&Headline=Clark's+rise+in+military+impressed+and+rankled+observers

[xultar]

1. Clark Supporter Here!

I love Clark. Let me tell you! He has moved me to particiapte like no other candidate has. He is handsome, smart, and he has the military background to beat W into the ground. The only problems I see right now is whether or not his campaign staff can help him get his message out. Plus I fear they will make the same mistakes that they made with the Gore campaign.

[lindashaw]

3. Maybe they will know the pitfalls better and won't make the same

mistakes the next time around. They may be the best for the job. :)

[Eloriel]

9. Oh, good

The Clark Invasion continues.

I'm sooooo freakin' happy.

Welcome to DU.

Eloriel

[wyldwolf]

14. We know you are, Eloriel

heee heee...

[DemCam]

2. My, my what a contrast from Taylor

to Shelton's vague "character issues".

"But he's also a man of real character and high personal values."

As someone said...an officer and a gentleman...but one with spine and ferocity it seems so far.

[JackSwift]

5. Shelton wouldn't know what character is

because no one with character publicly disrespects someone who used to be a subordinate who achieved results without breaking the law. I have no respect for a creep who slanders a supposed co-worker with a vague "character" charge.

[Rowdyboy]

4. Kerry, Edwards, Lieberman are all senators...

Half the senate would say bad things about them. Gephart and Kucinich are members of the House. They'd get lousy Reviews from the rethugs in the House. Dean is a Democratic governor. How would GOP governors describe him though?

Well, its the same with Wes Clark. The institution he represents is largely conservative and doesn't like those who think about human loss. Clark does. He also moved through the ranks of the military at a fantastic pace-sure to draw attention from jealous losers. Many of his fellow officers do not like him but many more do.

The quality of his supporters FAR overshadows the quality of his detractors.

[catforclark2004]

6. It appears as in "1984" ......

that history is being rewritten....check out the 1999 articles from various source here:

U.S. News Online
Outlook 8/9/99
the real reason for Clark's ouster may be that the famously political general was impolitic. Pentagon insiders say Clark's frequent and public complaint that politicians had tied his hands during the Kosovo war irked his boss, Defense Secretary William Cohen. Cohen reportedly also was none too pleased that Clark's aides called him "Senator Cohen," a mocking reference to his past as an elected official. The bottom line, says one Pentagon official: "You don't piss off your boss and get away with it-

1999 UNIVERSAL PRESS SYNDICATE
No wonder these generals and admirals in what once was called the War Department got rid of the one genuine military thinker and hero we have, Gen. Wesley K. Clark. What did he think he was doing, insisting upon winning?

The simple truth right now is that nobody says that Clark was wrong. In fact, the respected German Gen. Klaus Naumann, just-retired head of the NATO military committee, told a group of us here recently, in his review of the still-unresolved conflict, that "the reluctance to use overwhelming force allowed Slobodan Milosevic to calculate his risks. ... I would press harder for visible preparations and visible planning."

But it was the "go-slow" guys, the "they'll give in with a just little more punishment" chaps (in fact, the very same mentality that gave us Vietnam!), the ones who would rewrite all of the dictums of von Clausewitz and Sun Tzu about the need to strike hard, fast and unrelentingly, who were unquestionably and provably wrong -- and whose political caution cost tens of thousands of lives and came close to losing the war for NATO.

So who goes? Wesley Clark!


Levin Statement on Departure of General Wesley Clark
July 28, 1999
WASHINGTON Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., issued the following statement today following the announcement that General Wesley Clark would step down as NATO supreme commander in April, 2000:

"I have known and worked with General Wes Clark for many years. He is an outstanding military officer. We all owe him a debt of gratitude for his tremendous leadership of NATO's military forces during the recent Kosovo conflict. I look forward to working closely with General Clark through the end of his term as SACEUR."


By: EDWARD N. LUTTWAK
Published in the LA Times August 6, 1999
Edward N. Luttwak is a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington

Defeated generals are sent home in disgrace, but it is most unusual to dismiss victorious ones. Whatever the future may hold for Kosovo--and it looks rather grim at present--there is no doubt that NATO's war against Serbia ended in victory. Nor is it in doubt that its military commander, Gen. Wesley K. Clark, was very much the victorious general of that war.

NewsWeek
By John Barry and Christopher Dickey,
Aug. 9, 1999

Gen. Wesley Clark, supreme Allied Commander in Europe, waged and won NATO's campaign for Kosovo without losing a single soldier in action. For the U.S. military, the victory was uniquely—historically—bloodless. Last week Clark learned it was also thankless.

In a midnight call from Washington, Clark was told he'd be relieved of his command at NATO next April, a few months earlier than he'd anticipated. The chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Hugh Shelton, presented the decision as a simple matter of giving the post to another deserving officer. Clark, who got the call in the middle of a quick trip to the Baltic republics, was caught off balance. He'd seen Shelton in the United States just the week before. Not a word had been breathed of his replacement. According to one source privy to the conversation, Clark told Shelton the move would be read as a vote of no-confidence in his leadership.

Shelton, brisk and businesslike, said there was no way around it. His replacement—Air Force Gen. Joseph Ralston, vice chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff—would be forced by law to retire if he weren't given a new slot by April. Clark wasn't buying it. In two conversations that night and again the next day, sources say, he argued that his replacement would be a blow to U.S. efforts to reshape NATO. Shelton wasn't moved. Clark, the 54-year-old warrior, was going to have to step aside for Ralston, the 55-year-old Washington insider.

there's more articles from Wash Post/Dana Priestly, Seattle times, etc...
http://wesleyclark.h1.ru/departure.htm

[wyldwolf]

7. Now THAT is a great resource! And I'll add this info again..

Thanks!

I'll post this again:

We've all heard the story by now. A few weeks back, Gen. Hugh Shelton, the former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, was at a forum in California where he was asked, "What do you think of Gen. Wesley Clark, and would you support him as a presidential candidate?"

"I've known Wes for a long time. I will tell you the reason he came out of Europe early had to do with integrity and character issues, things that are very near and dear to my heart. I'm not going to say whether I'm a Republican or a Democrat. I'll just say Wes won't get my vote." Shelton replied.

There are two problems with that statent. The first is unless Shelton reveals what those "integrity and character issues" are, the charges are meaningless and they show a lack of integrity unto themselves. Afterall, how can Wesley Clark possibly rebutt them if he doesn't know what the issues are? This is like someone telling you on your wedding day, "I wouldn't marry him/her if I were you... I'm not going to say why... just trust me..." Huh? How does one respond to that?

The second problem is the assertion that Clark came out of Europe early based on the mysterious and vague charges of "integrity and character" issues. In all actuality, Clark was relieved of duty based on personal vendettas carried by General Hugh Shelton and Admiral Leighton (Snuffy) Smith. It was Shelton who called Clark to inform him that his nato assignment would end early. (According to Waging Modern War, Shelton would not even show Clark the courtesy of extending the phone call a few minutes to work out a face-saving exit.) President Clinton privately told Clark, "I had nothing to do with it." http://www.farcaster.com/mhonarchive/hauserreport/msg00467.html

So what drove General Shelton to the decision to recall a very successful General from the field after executing a very successful war?

He directly crossed Admiral Leighton Smith, the four-star commander of Mediterranean nato forces. Although nato demanded a full Serb withdrawal from the besieged city of Sarajevo, Smith urged that a brief bombing pause in early September be extended indefinitely, since, as he explained to Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, he thought the United States had no business intervening. But Clark, then still a three-star, insisted in a heated telephone call that the bombing should continue as planned. As Holbrooke writes in To End A War, "I could tell from the noises emanating from Clark's cell phone that he was being scolded by a very angry, very senior American naval commander." Smith--who quickly alerted his superiors to Clark's insolence--had the inclinations of nato policymakers on his side; after all, heads of state had neglected Bosnia as long as was politically tolerable. But Clark was right, and he won: The bombing resumed and caused the Bosnian Serbs to withdraw from Sarajevo within two weeks of Clark's clash with Smith. That November, the warring parties met at Dayton to negotiate a peace accord. Clark was soon afterward awarded his fourth star--despite ferocious resistance from the Army, which would have preferred his retirement. http://www.farcaster.com/mhonarchive/hauserreport/msg00467.html

During the above-mention events, President Clinton seethed, privately calling Smith insubordinate, and eventually forcing the admiral to resume action. http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/books/2001/0109.thompson.html

So, we see, Clark defied Admiral Smith, won Clinton's backing, and resumed the campaign. The intervention ended less than two weeks later.

So here's the setup. Clark defied Admiral Smith. Smith alerted his superiors to Clark's "insolence" (but apparantly not Bill Clinton, who agreed with Clark and disagreed with Smith.) Those superiors were most likely Richard Cohen and General Shelton.

Shelton, Smith, and Cohen were angry. Not only had they been defied, but they were proven wrong and were not backed by their Commander in Chief.

They fought Clark being awared his Fourth star - wanting him retired instead. They had been out manuervered by Wesley Clark and Clark won the Kosovo intervention. Embarassing to be sure.

I don't know how thick Admiral Leighton W. Smith and General Shelton were during the Kosovo conflict, before it, or after it, but they have both been guest speakers at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Commerce.

http://www.uky.edu/RGS/Patterson/faculty.htm

I would suspect their association goes back a bit further.

As for Clark and his "character issues," he "risked his career to confront the uniformed reluctance to use force in defense of human rights."

Clark was disliked (even hated?) by the upper Pentagon brass because...

1. Such liberal/progressive views like humanitarian missions and nation building for the military made the Pentagon uneasy...

Despite his credentials as a warrior - 34 years in the Army, including a Silver Star, two Bronze Stars and a Purple Heart earned in Vietnam - {Clark} argues that the U.S. military must learn how to perform such nontraditional functions as peacekeeping and even nation-building, because that's what it will be doing in the 21st century, like it or not. And, since it's no small task to turn gung-ho soldiers into order-keeping policers, it's all the more urgent that the entire military start rethinking its doctrine immediately.

Paradigm-shifting views such as these did not make Clark popular with his superiors at the Pentagon, including former Secretary of Defense William Cohen.

http://www.newamerica.net/index.cfm?pg=article&pubID=528

2. Wesley Clark welcomes homosexuals in the military

I'm not sure that I'd be in favor of policy. I supported that policy. That was a policy that was given. I don't think it works. It works better in some circumstances than it does in others. But essentially we've got a lot of gay people in the armed forces, always have had, always will have. And I think that, you know, we should welcome people that want to serve. - MSNBC

Former NATO supreme commander Wesley Clark says it is time for the ban on gays in the military to be lifted. - gayPASG


3. Clark was/is too intelligent for the military "culture."

...General Barry McCaffrey told the Washington Post: "This is no insult to army culture ... but he was way too bright, way too articulate, way too good looking and perceived to be way too wired to fit in with our culture."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1044318,00.html

I would say these sound like integrity and character issues I admire.

[WesWinger]

8. Glad this news finally got out

Hi all, Wes Winger here!

Wes is truly an impressive individual - both sides of the aisle have to agree about that. But what makes this guy special is that he brings integrity and honesty to the process. All one has to do is view the C-Span archives of Wes Clark to prove this point. He IS a man of conviction and hardly a flopasaurus like some would like you to believe about him.
We need a SMART GUY in the White House and Wes fits the bill perfectly. He is also the only Democratic candidate that has the ability to attract the Republican vote in any meaningful way. No other person running for the Dems can make this claim. That is why this guy is especially dangerous to the chickhawk White House neocons.
The media has been discounting Clark's chances on a regular basis by saying that he just doesn't have the political experience to make it far. I guess they were too young to remember Eisenhower...
Shame on them - good on us!
And Wes fans - don't worry too much about the people surrounding Clark...most of them put Clinton into the White House in 1992 and 1996. Look for more of this in the future.

Your friend,
WesWinger

:smoke:

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Pastiche423]

11. Both sides of the aisle?

It appears to me, that the side of the aisle that is most excited about him, is the opposite side that I have been w/for over thirty years.

I do hope he continues w/the same staff and supporters he has now. They have already proven how prepared and loyal he is to his party.

[wyldwolf]

15. You mean you've been on the Republican side for over 30 years?

Because I have seen ZERO excitement about Clark from the republicans.

[Pastiche423]

20. To be precise

I have been a registered Democrat and a Democratic activist for thirty one years plus five months.

clark has been one for, what, thirteen days?

[jbm]

12. reading this thread...

has just turned me into a Clark supporter. The military has never been a place that encouraged independent thought...that Clark exhibited the traits of independent thought and still managed to rise in the military tells me that he's someone deserving of respect.

[wyldwolf]

13. Welcome aboard!

[BeHereNow]

16. "Wesley Clark" and "Frank Carlucci"...

Try that combo in your search engines
and get back to me about the biggest liar
to manipulate the voting public yet.
We are so screwed.
Bush or Clark?
Now there's a choice given that they are
in bed with the same master.
Oh boo-hoo, say it isn't true!
"Shame on you BeHereNow for raining on the parade!"

BHN

[wyldwolf]

17. Oh, looky! Clark sits on a board with a bunch of other people..

...including Frank Carlucci.

Did you google the bios of the others there?

Well, now look - Frank Carlucci was appointed deputy director of the CIA by... Jimmy Carter! Now the name association connects Jimmy Carter and Wesley Clark!

WAIT! Carlucci sits on the MCI board, too! I used to use MCI! Shit! I'M connected to Carlucci, Carter, and Clark!

Oh, no, I have a friend who worked for MCI!

[Julien Sorel]

18. WOW

That was some powerful stuff there. You know, Clark also served in the military with Colin Powell. I think this is the link we've been looking for. Do a Google on General Clark and Colin Powell, and you'll see that rain is nothing -- we'll have hail the size of boulders coming down on that parade!

[wyldwolf]

19. WAIT! They BOTH served together during Clinton's first term!

Does that make Clinton a republican operative or Powell a democrat?

[truthisfreedom]

21. both, apparently.

ANYONE BUT bUSH!

[BeHereNow]

22. Well then...

Try a search on Clark and Sirva Corporation.
Sirva specializes in outsourcing jobs for multi national corporations.
Ever heard a a "stalking horse" in politics?
Clark is that- make no mistake, Bush will win a second term.
Democrats have lost the ability to research just who their
pied piper REALLY is. All they hear is,
"Oh, he's pro abortion/gay/women/ whatever..."
Oh really?
Just because he says it, it's true?
Better take a second look folks.

Clark says he cares about the American worker?
When he works for the number one company that facilitates
over seas corporatism?
He runs with James Baker, Frank Carlucci, and the CFR?
Mark my words, Bush will have a second term.
Thanks to Wesley Clark and the gullible democrats
who actually believe him.

BHN

[democracyindanger]

23. Sirva? LMAO.

"Sirva specializes in outsourcing jobs for multi national corporations."

You know what Sirva really does?

IT'S A MOVING COMPANY.

I Googled 'sirva' and 'outsourcing.' Looked through dozens of pages. And I couldn't find any article, any editorial that says Sirva does what you suggest it does. Sirva, simply put, is a RELOCATION company. It moves employees, handles their home sales, etc. As this posting on an Indiana U. job board explains:

"We are a global leader in providing relocation, moving, logistics and related financial services. The Company is a global network manager of agents, owners/operators and company-owned branches with locations in 21 countries. Our premier brands include SIRVA Relocations, naLogistics, North American Van Lines, Allied Van Lines, Global Van Lines, Pickfords, and TransGuard Insurance, providing services to a diversified customer base including many Fortune 500 and FTSE-100 companies, private transferees, and government entities worldwide."

http://bpo.indiana.edu/cgi-bin/newCSJ/CSJArchives/2003_csj/csjb0704.html

The way you put it, you suggest multinationals go to Sirva to set them up with Indian tech reps or Guatemalan textile workers, when that's not even close to what it does. A visit to Sirva's homepage would've told you that. Nowhere, on any page, is the word 'outsourcing.' Seems if they specialized in it, they'd use the word at least ONCE, don't you think?

How's THAT for research?

Geez, this tinfoil hat stuff is so easy to knock down.

[BeHereNow]

24. Wanna have a look at

Clark and Acxiom?
Acxiom, the company that Kissinger Associates has as a client?
Acxiom who was contracted by Darpa and Poindexters' TIA?
Yep, Wes just left their Board, three days ago.
and just why do you think Wes is leaving all of these boards?
Could it be something like the reason Cheney retired form Halliburton?
You bet.
Oh and by the way, Sirva is more than a "moving company."
Who do they move?
Multi-national corporate workers.
Outsourced employees.
Do you REALLY not get what is happening?
If so, then you deserve what's coming.
Please remember I tried to warn you.

BHN

[wyldwolf]

25. ok! Let's knock another one down!

(Hillary Clinton is)already friendly with Acxiom Corporation, referred to recently as "the largest data-mining company in America." Its executives have been heavy supporters of Democrats, including Bill Clinton.

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0030/harkavy.php

Uh oh! Now Bill and Hillary Clinton, as well as other democrats, are involved in your tinfoil conspiracy!

Charles Ward, a big Democratic insider in Arkansas, founded the company in 1969, three years after Winthrop Rockefeller, one of the first candidates anywhere to use computers to target and woo voters, became the first Republican since the Reconstruction to win the Arkansas statehouse. Mr. Ward decided to do the same for Democrats with his new company, then named Demographics.

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:AlGuqZ0J5LgJ:www.redherring.com/industries/2001/0118/ind-mag-90-informant011801.html+Acxiom+democrats&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

Acxiom was FOUNDED for Democrats! Uh oh! How many democrats have used their services? How many have benefited?

Google that! Then I expect you to condemn EVERY democrat with any dealings with Acxiom.

You know what else Acxiom does? It works with retail outlets, doing studies on how often and with how much they should stock their shelves!

They're hired by States to do education surveys...

http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:heyBxegnE3wJ:www.nwaonline.net/pdfarchive/2000/August/14/8-14-00%2520A11.pdf+Acxiom+democrats&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

But you know what? Anything sinister you read into Acxiom and Poindexter's Total Awareness began after 9/11 and the US government was just one more client.

..and Clark is no longer with Acxiom. How many other democrats still benefit from them?

Honestly, Beherenow, if I had more time, I'd track down all the democrats who have worked or accepted campaign funding from Axciom (close to $20,000 in the 2002 election cycle.)

But dubunking silly rightwing Carl Rove type talking points isn't how I want to spend my time.

But look on the bright side! Rove is bound to run out of Clark conspiracy material soon. He'll have nothing left to try and sway public opinion with - leaving Clark wide open for the nomination and the presidency.

Call Carl up and say, "Hey, these Clark folks on DU are pretty smart! What else have you got?"

Next?

[WesWinger]

27. TeamFranken

Nice work wyldwolf! TeamFranken could use you on his next edition of "Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them."
Some Republicans begin frothing at the mere mention of Wes Clark's name. Why? Because he is the only man who can beat Dubya. The other side of the aisle is already on the smear campaign - they must feel awfully threatened...heh, heh.

WesWinger

:smoke:

[eileen_d]

26. Wait a minute - Clark's in the MILITARY?

:evilgrin:

I heard he actually pledged allegiance to the flag too!