Eight arrests in US polygamy sect

[Eugene]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4676093.stm

Last Updated: Tuesday, 12 July, 2005, 16:41 GMT 17:41 UK

Eight arrests in US polygamy sect

Eight members of a polygamous community have been indicted in
connection with cases of alleged sexual misconduct with minors, US
prosecutors say.

The charges follow an investigation into communities of the
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (FLDS) in
Arizona and Utah.

Warren Jeffs, who is reputed to have 70 wives, was charged by
authorities in Arizona with conspiring to commit sexual misconduct
with a minor.

Mr Jeffs, 49, took over the leadership of the church after his father
Rulon died in 2002, and has not been seen for more than a year.

more...

[Barrett808]

1. Weren't these folks getting ready for Armageddon a few months ago?

Iirc, they were all flocking to the Texas compound.

[napi21]

2. I will never understand why somebody would want all those wives!

From what I can tell, ONE at a time is more than most men can handle! But these folks don't seem to bother anybody outside of their own tight knit sect so why is this AZ prosecutor bothering with them?

[AllegroRondo]

4. I think the 'misconduct with minors' part is what the prosecutor is after

[blondeatlast]

39. Exactly; and they plan to make a case for welfare fraud as well. nt

[LostinVA]

6. Because they engage in child rape, kidnapping, incest

And many other felonies, It's not a bunch of adult women wanting to marry men. Some men marry their own nieces, stepdaughters, etc. Plus, women are used as chattel/spoils of war -- they are taken away from one man who falls out of favor with the Prophet and given to another man... along with his children. The majority of young men,many minors, are thrown out of town. etc. These are evil people. The Mayor and law enforcement are in on this, too.

Plus, they take joy in "Bleeding the Beast" -- they get enormous amounts of welfare, food stamps, etc., because all but the first wives are legally single mothers.

Every single damned one should be put in prison forever.

[pinerow]

7. The fact is that they coerce young women into these

so-called 'marriages', denying them a life away from what can only be described as forced servitude
You have dirty old men living their greatest fantasy under the guise of religion...sick bastards.

[NuConvert]

18. Eeeewww

Never mind all the WIVES...who wants all those mothers-in-law......

[LisaM]

30. Power and lots of offspring

also, child abuse and pedophilia. Some of the 'wives' are about 13 years old.

[WhiteTara]

35. it is about power over others eom

[lovuian]

3. 70 wives OMG!!!

now thats slavery and the religions promotes this!!!

[GracieM]

5. How many Mormons have you met?

I can say I've only ever met 2 that I knew were Mormon. Both seemed very normal.

Anyone have more experience? The only weird Mormons I see seem to have a seat of power. For some reason "Catholic Priest" keeps popping up in my head...

Do you think it's a case of power corrupting people? Does anyone know how the "rank and file" Mormons react to this type of news? I don't remember many "rank and file" Catholics defending child molesters. Of course, Catholicism doesn't endorse molestation either.

I'm just sort of dumbfounded that people follow religious leaders exhibiting this kind of behavior...

[napi21]

8. I've met 2 members of the church of the Later Day Saints.

I guess that's the same church being discussed here.

One was renting a house a few dorrs down from us, and seemed very nice. She invited me to a luncheon once where all the mothers brought their under schoolage kids. It was fine, and nobody tried to promote any teachings or anything. They just ahd a table with a lot of different pamphlets on, but I didn't bother with any of them.

The other was a guy I worked with. He was OK, but made me very uncomfortable because he got very upset if he heard any swearing around the office, and there were sure times I'm sure he cringed in the corner after hearing some of the stuff coming out of my office!!!

But both only had one wife/husband, and seemed like OK people.

[bitchkitty]

11. This is an offshoot of the church.

Mormons are Latter Day Saints.

[Dulcinea]

16. The polygamists are the ultra-fundies of the Mormon church.

I don't think mainstream Mormonism allows polygamy anymore.

If memory serves, Utah was turned down for statehood 6 times until they officially outlawed polygamy. It is illegal.

[Bhaisahab]

17. napi, who did they vote for in 2004? n/t

[FlaGranny]

24. Went to high school

nearly 50 years ago with a Mormon girl. She became one of my good friends. She was religious but didn't push it and seemed very normal to me. Her father only had one wife that I know of.

[Momgonepostal]

31. It's not the same church

I'm a Mormon, or rather a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The people in the article call themselves FUNDAMENTALIST Mormons. They split from the main body of the church in the 1800's and called their branch something with FUNDAMENTALIST in the title. They are the ones that still practice polygamy.

Most mainstream Mormons live mainstream lifestyles, which is why the people you knew seemed relatively normal.

I find these Jeffs guys very upsetting, because I think their lifestyle victimizes women and girls AND they live off the government by collecting welfare checks to support all their dozens of children by different women AND that people think they represent and are members of my church. They are not!

[Frances]

10. I know 2 different people whose

grandparents were Mormons. Their parents left the religion because it was too fundamentalist. The Mormon beliefs about their 1800s prophet are incredible to me.

I have read accounts in reputable newspapers about the polygamists, who are a minority of the Mormons today. But most Mormons whose ancestors were born in Utah are descended from polygamists.

The wives of the polygamists get welfare to raise their children. The young girls are not educated but are given to older men for sexual reasons. The teen boys are often forced to leave the community because the older men don't want competition for the young girls.

Pretty sick.

[Moose_head]

21. the South Park episode where they "explain" mormon beliefs is FUNNY!

especially the stuff about the guy looking into the hat...

they must have pretty strong kool-aid up there in utah.

[GracieM]

13. It kinda makes my stomach churn...

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

15. The first Mormons I met explained me their version of the "Mark of Cain"

They said it's the dark skin, and blacks are black because of this "curse".

LDS officials are trying hard to expunge this little bit from their mythology, but when the religion was founded (19th century) it was completely acceptable.

My rather nordic apperance obviously made those "elders" think I'd be receptive to such drivel.

[GracieM]

20. Obviously....

There's no way environment could have any effect on the color of people's skin. Dark skin must be from a curse....

[LostinVA]

23. I had a Mormon bishop inform me both this and polygamy are

Still part of official Mormon doctrine. He personally found polygamy very acceptable, but said the LDS leadership chose to follow the rules of the US. He also told me he believes individual Mormons must follow their hearts, and if God tells them to have plural wives, then they should. He did say he believed men should only marry women (ie over 18).

He was very uncomfortable discussing black people, and refused to discuss it when I started quoting scripture.

I guess my point in that I'm not saying the LDS church is any worse than any other patriarchal religion, but the leadership seems to want to hide the truth beneath layers of Donny & Marie and clean-cut kids. WEird.

I found "Under the Banner of Heaven" very good in that it showed how both Mormon history and current Mormon culture lead to this extremism.


(FYI: my best friend in high school was Mormon. This was her bishop who told me this, at her wedding reception.)

[djg21]

33. There is a distinction that must be made.

The "sect" in question is fundamentalist Morman sect, the members of which have been excommunicated by the mainstream Mormon church. They are considered an embarrassment by "mainstream" Mormons.

Jon Krakauer's book Under the Banner of Heaven: A Story of Violent Faith is well worth a read if you are interested in learning a little more about Moromonism and the polygamist Mormon cults in Colorado City, AZ and Bountiful,BC. It is a very scary book, that I could not put down once I started!

[blondeatlast]

41. This cult is NOT associated in any way, shape, or form with

the Church of Latter Day Saints, which has been publicly critical of te cult.

[against all enemies]

9. Probably voted for Sen Hatch - Republican family values.

[lanlady]

12. it's about time

for TX, AZ and UT to go after this sect, which is nothing but a child sex ring cloaked in so-called religion. They "marry" girls as young as 13 and 14 & keep them enslaved.

[GracieM]

14. Punishment

Maybe the men should be castrated. Maybe I could accept corporal punishment for a short time...

[AngryAmish]

19. These folks are NOT mainstream Mormons

I recently read "Under the Banner of Heaven" by that guy who wrote "Into Thin Air". They are an offshoot who never accepted the decision of the mainline LDS church's decision in the 1890s to renounce polygamy. (They did it because the Fed'l gov't had seized all Mormon property and only got it back when they renounced polygamy.)

Anyway, these people are completely nuts and definitely commit incest, child rape, welfare fraud and possibly infanticide.

The Mormons I have met (not many and not well) seemed perfectly polite if a bit too sober for my likes.

[senaca]

29. Warren Jeffs was written about in "Under the Banner of Heaven"

When Uncle Rulon died, Warren decided he was head Prophet of his particular sect of fundamentalism. Aren't the fundamentalists basically excommunicated from the LDS church? At any rate the book was a rare look into polygamy as the violent "crazy aunt" of the LDS church and was interesting. I hope that this case will lead to more convictions.

[anotherdrew]

22. babyland

http://scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0503/S00014.htm

[patcox2]

25. Mainstream mormons officially accepted the equality of blacks in 1970s.

And that was only "officially," mind you. Institutionalized racism as part of their doctrine until the 1970s, its mind-boggling.

[LostinVA]

26. I had a Mormon bishop tell me this is STILL their doctrine

And many Mormons reject black men being allowed to be in the priesthood. He told me it is officially declared and accepted, but that the doctrine hasn't changed and is still written as such, just as the doctrine of polygamy is still on the books.

[patcox2]

27. When Mormons die they become God over their own personal universe.

Its true.

[LostinVA]

28. Nope -- only the men

That's why they need all of those wives, to have sex and make spirit babies.

I am so not making this up, gang.

[Megahurtz]

32. EW!

Pervs!:freak::freak::freak::freak::freak::freak::freak::freak:

[FreeState]

34. Im LDS (Mormon) answering some questions for you

First off I should not I was born into the church - I have been a member my whole life. I am no longer active or a believer but I am still a member. You have to ask for your name to be removed from the records, something I have not done for family reasons.

First the FLDS church is not the Mormon church you think of (this has been pointed out).

Yes it is church doctrine that those that are black are descendants of Cain (cursed with black skin for killing Able).

The LDS church does not practice polygamy now. However they believe that if you are married and you wife dies and you remarry you will have both wives in the next life. (Applies to men only).

The church teaches that if you are faithful you will inherit all that the Father has. Father referring to God, not Jesus. The church teaches that the godhead is made up of three individual Gods (God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost). So basically if you live a life that is up to par with the teachings you will become as God The Father (i.e. have your own universe/planets give birth to your own son that will play the part of jesus in your world etc). It is the church's belief that this has been going on for ever and God has a God that did the same thing and lived a life similar to ours (as did his father and hist father etc.)

The above are considered deep doctrines and most likely will not be discussed with you if you ask a missionary or member. As a missionary I was taught milk before meat.

Okay end of my little rant

[Momgonepostal]

37. I'm active LDS and don't get the Cain thing

How is it even possible?

If one takes the bible literally, one would have to believe all the descendants of Cain were drowned in the flood. Are they saying Noah was also a descendant of Cain?

[VegasWolf]

36. Bobby has 70 mommies and his religion is good with it! Libary shelves now!

[Maddy McCall]

38. They have built a huge commune in El Dorado, Texas.

They are a major "end-times" group. I think they are dangerous--in that they could be provoking another Waco-type confrontation with the Feds.

[xilet]

40. A little more info.

Also keep in mind what these people practice is not polygamy, it is polygyny. Sorry I am just the kind of person that wants to help educate those unfamiliar with the difference. Polygamy is having multiple spouses. These sects would not take too kindly to one of the "wives" saying she wanted to get another husband. It is purely the practice of one man having many wives.

I should disclaimer this by saying I am in an open relationship (polyamory) which is exclusively open, totally consensual adults.

But when Utah was first colonized polygamy made sense. The more wives a man had, the more children he could bear which was a necessity for getting help on the farm. Also due to the childbirth death rate of both mother and child having more then one wife could be incredibly important.

There are still places where this is not a bad thing to have. I have massive problems with any place that enforced polygyny or polyandry because of the inherent gender inequalities presented. Any these sects that enslave women, regularly practice incest, rape, child molestation, and in many operate entirely outside of the law I think are some of the sickest perversions in America.

[SemperEadem]

42. these are the people Dobson needs to be railing against,

not gays who marry. This branch of the LDS do more to destroy the sanctity of marriage than a legion of gays with marriage licenses. Why doesn't he ever speak to that? Just as they want to throw out "marriage is between one man and one woman...", what needs to be thrown out is "and the emphasis is on the word ONE".

[DiverDave]

43. Rape and incest...Children have no rights in this country.

Throw their pedophile asses in jail.
Sickening, just despicable.

Oh, joe smith was a LIAR