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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 11:39 PM
Original message
IBM Takes Broadband to Power Lines
IBM Takes Broadband to Power Lines

Jay Wrolstad, cio-today.com
Tue Jul 12, 1:33 PM ET

IBM (NYSE: IBM - news) is partnering with a Texas utility to deliver broadband over power line (BPL) technology in the Houston area, joining the small but growing number of companies rolling out high-speed Internet service using standard home and business wiring.
...
BPL technology is touted as a way not only to provide broadband access to areas lacking DSL or cable connections, but also to improve power service and reliability. Using a BPL modem, consumers can plug a computer into any home or office outlet and receive high-speed access.

"With more bandwidth available, utilities can improve their delivery systems through the development of smart grid technologies, such as automated meter reading, real time system monitoring, preventive maintenance and outage detection," said Raymond Blair, vice president of broadband over power initiatives at IBM.
...
"Everyone has electric power, but that's not necessarily true with DSL or cable," said Blair. Among the possible BPL-based services are Voice over Internet Protocol (VoIP), Video on Demand (VOD), home environment management and security monitoring.
...
This technology is being used today in Europe and other parts of the world. In the U.S., BPL providers include Current Communications, which last week announced investments from Internet search leader Google (Nasdaq: GOOG - news), communications conglomerate Hearst and financial services firm Goldman Sachs.
...

--------------------------------

Yet again, the USA is the LAST in the world to get the technologies that will provide cheap service to the masses.
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. what about disruption to HAM radio operators?
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Before it can be adopted, it has to be proven that it won't interfere
with any signals. The modems would be considered unlicensed devices and therefore can't interfere with any licensed signals.

It won't happen until interference is not a problem anymore. I have no doubt that this can be accomplished... It will just take creative thinking.
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #4
17. It's not the modems, it's the power lines... and the FCC is negligent
...Because power lines are not designed to prevent radiation of RF energy, BPL represents a significant potential interference source for all radio services using this frequency range, including the Amateur Radio Service. Overhead electrical power lines and residential wiring act as antennas that unintentionally radiate the broadband signals as radio signals throughout entire neighborhoods and along roadsides.

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/bpl-deployment.html

..."What was astounding was the FCC essentially ignored over 5000 comments against BPL, failed to address numerous concerns, and paved the way for BPL to continue . Even more suspicious was that the FCC failed to wait for the NTIA to release its study, something that was seen by most to be a deciding factor."

http://www.gobpl.com/primer.html

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Occulus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #17
35. Whaaaa?
"that unintentionally radiate the broadband signals as radio signals"

Isn't this a MAJOR security issue for BPL? If the signal is being radiated out as a radio signal, well, can't it be converted back into machine-readable form- similar to what can be done in a wireless hotspot?

Maybe I'm not being as clear as I would like. TechTV, I think it may have been "The Screensavers", did a report where they drove through a city's financial districtm, and were able to pull account numbers, balances, and a whole bunch of other things right out of the air, because the data wasn't being secured when moving over a wireless network.

Wouldn't BPL have the same problem, if what you say is true?
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Encryption...
... would solve that problem.

As an Amateur Radio operator, I'm not too happy about this because IMHO there is little chance that this technology won't generate tons of RF interference.
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #38
41. Worldwide RF interference
One point which I don't think has been raised in this thread so far:

Radio signals at HF (the proposed BPL frequencies) propagate via the ionosphere and a low level radio signal can propagate at very strong signal strength to other parts of the world. In fact, this is a large attraction for amateur radio use of HF frequencies - communicating worldwide with only a few watts of output, as hams have done for about a hundred years.

It is quite common for received radio signals at HF frequencies to be stronger from thousands of miles away than it is for a ground propagated signal from 10 or 100 miles away - this is an everyday phenomenon of ham and shortwave radio and to a lesser extent, the AM broadcast band at night.

There is nothing to stop the unwanted leakage of BPL HF signals from power lines from propagating to other parts of the world and interfering with shortwave radio reception. It's a certainty that at least some of the BPL leakage would be detectable as RF pollution in other parts of the world.

If BPL is adopted on the scale being pursued by the Bush administration, the result could be global RF hash throughout the HF radio spectrum currently used by hams and shortwave broadcasters.

See post #36 for Shrub's speech peddling Broadband over Power Lines.

BPL is not a political issue - it's an open and shut case - but the Bush administration and republican controlled FCC willfully ignoring a large body of objective technical evidence to favor their cronies' commercial interests has made it a political issue of global proportions.

BPL = Broadband over Power Lines = Bush Peddling Lies.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 11:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. Except....this could knock out AM radio AND SHORTWAVE which
Edited on Tue Jul-12-05 11:55 PM by Gloria
is the way the masses get info....including me! The interference from this CRAP could be devastating and the onus is on ME to PROVE these bastards are screwing around with the frequencies....and it could affect broadcasts coming in via shortwave from other countries, all over the world.

This has the potential to be a mess...and many countries in Europe, and Japan, have backed off this....

Tests done in a few East Coast communities have created problems....
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Shielding might solve the interference problems.
It might not be practical to retrofit existing power lines.

This could be useful in rural areas. It might also eliminate the need to run a dedicated phone line.

The developing world might find it useful.

----------
Nortel Networks developed this before the tech boom. It got eclipsed by the fiber optics rage and other things. I thought that they had worked out the bugs and installed in the UK years ago.
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. From the BBC and Ofcom re UK BPL
Plans to offer the internet using mains electricity cables could cause so much interference that new digital radio stations could be obliterated, a broadcasting conference has been told.
...
If power line internet transmission is introduced, then international broadcasting on shortwave may also be consigned to history due to the interference from data travelling over mains electricity cables.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3652202.stm

NEWINGTON, CT, May 11, 2005--Ofcom, the UK's telecommunications regulatory agency, has concluded that Amperion BPL equipment deployed in a field trial in Scotland "as tested is not and cannot be FCC Part 15 compliant above 30 MHz." Ofcom today released a study, "Amperion PLT Measurements in Crieff," which summarizes measurements it took at the site in Scotland. PLT is another term for BPL. Ofcom's investigation also demonstrated the limitations of Amperion's "notching" capabilities to mitigate interference to radio reception. ARRL CEO David Sumner, K1ZZ, says Ofcom's study reflects what the League and others have known all along about BPL.

"Ofcom's measurements and conclusions are consistent with ours, and with what we have been saying all along about BPL in general and Amperion in particular," Sumner said. "It's a shame that we have to look overseas to find a regulator who will say what truly needs to be said: Medium voltage power lines are no place for HF broadband data."

http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2005/05/11/2/
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:30 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Do cable companies fund ARRL?
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:00 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. American Radio Relay League
Founded 1914. Exclusive purpose is to represent the interests of ham radio operators and other radio enthusiasts.

Non profit. Non-politcal.

Funded principally by ham radio operators membership dues, donations and sales of publications and magazines concerning radio and electronics.

About the ARRL...
http://www.arrl.org/aarrl.html


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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. Shielding WOULD solve the problems, no doubt about it.
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reprobate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:51 AM
Response to Reply #24
25. Maybe, but the cost of shielding power lines would be astronomical.


Remember that power lines are mostly bare copper with no shielding at all. They would all have to be replaced with either braided shielding or solid shields and no power company would spend that much for it.
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sendero Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. The cost to ..
... rewire the entire physical plant would be beyond astronomical.

Not only that, but shielding a high-voltage line like you see 30 feet in the air would be doubly-expensive - that's why they use a cheap insulator (air) now.
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-12-05 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
3. Right after they announced...
IBM to cut 13K jobs in the US while creating 14K jobs in India?

Phuck IBM, their outsourcing and their broadband.

I'm not going to buy IBM broadband.
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zapp Donating Member (617 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:39 AM
Response to Original message
5. Shocking!
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:51 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. Very punny :-)
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:49 AM
Response to Original message
6. Price competion for telecoms? I predict a PR campaign smeering this.
Cable companies are pissed that they won't own the fattest cable into people's homes.

(And what about community wireless networks???)
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merwin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Community wireless networks are the best way to piss off the RIAA.
It's MUCH harder to track down the people downloading songs when hundreds of people are using the same random wireless access points. Can't sue the entire city!
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. I hope the ease of stealing music doesn't become the measure of
good public telecom policy!
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msongs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 10:31 PM
Response to Reply #9
45. thieves will say anything to justify their crime n/t
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:05 AM
Response to Original message
10. BPL is a darling of the GOP/Big Business
In spite of overwhelming evidence of pollution to radio spectrum, including amateur radio, shortwave and emergency radio communications, Colin Powell's son Michael shilled shamelessly for BPL throughout his tenure as FCC Chairman, dismissing even the FCC's own independent engineering studies on interference in favor of the commercial interests pushing BPL. Replacement FCC Chairman Kevin Martin -- who worked on the Bush presidential campaigns in Florida :eyes: -- will probably be even worse.

There are 'RF clean' alternatives to BPL, but they are not as attractive to the big power and communication companies which have shills like Powell in their pockets - I believe that Powell Junior's new job post-FCC involves promoting BPL - at least he's not doing it on taxpayer dollars now.

For information on the harmful interference caused to amateur radio (public radio spectrum) see here...

http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/

To see a shining example of why nepotism is bad, watch this fascinating "interview" with outgoing chairman Powell - he cites the wonderful free speech power of internet bloggers to keep checks on nasty big business like CBS (a reference to the takedown of Rather over AWOL).

http://msnbc.msn.com/ID/6852019/

Powell the lesser's sanctimony is galling. He and Shrub have a lot in common. Both riding the coattails of their daddies to shill for their daddies' cronies.

Don't buy BPL.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Yet Collin Powell is one of largest shareholders of AOL
which owns a cable network.

BPL would compete with that network, which would lower prices and profits for AOL.
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:21 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. AOL in for a slice of the BPL pie...
For BPL,

The following business models are actively being explored:

Wholesale – Where electric utility maintains the line in a type of “landlord model” but ISPs manage the services.

Conjoined (mixed) – utility owns half of the service and ISP owns the other half

Owner – Where the electric utility becomes an Exempt Telecommunications Company (ETC)

The wholesale model has become the dominant business model thus far. It is anticipated that AOL and Earthlink will buy up these opportunities.

http://www.birds-eye.net/article_archive/broadband_over_power_lines_bpl.htm

The FCC push the idea that BPL will foster competition in the cable market. In reality BPL is complementary to the growth of big providers like AOL and there is no talk of TV going over power lines.


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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #13
14. The utilities own those lines. I don't see AOL buying all the utility
cos in America.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:14 PM
Response to Reply #10
32. GOP = (POS - Party of Shills): FCC, FDA ...
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 01:24 PM by BrightKnight
There appears to be a disturbing pattern here.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
37. See post #36 for Bush's speech on this...
Ever hear this interference?? The AARL site has audio of it...I listened to some of it from a place in JAPAN....it completely OBLITERATES normal AM radio.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
11. self delete
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 01:09 AM by BrightKnight
self delete

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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
15. As an electrical engineer I can give the proper technical term for this.
Clusterfuck.

Stupid idea all around. Technically non feasible. Politically, PORK PORK PORK. Wonder who has their fingers in this pie?
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truthisfreedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:06 AM
Response to Reply #15
22. heh. like the missle defense program.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #15
26. How so?
I am definately not an EE. I have read previous articles on this in the popular press and it seemed like a good idea to me. But again, I'm not very conversant in this area. Could you explain it to me (hopefully in small words so I can understand it)?

I appreciate it.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Sure!
All electrical signals create a magnetic field which radiate out from the conductors that carry them. The magnetic field is received by radio and television receivers as radio waves. Signals different from what the receiver was intended to receive create interference, the vacuum cleaner or blender effect.

Modern data signals minimize this interference by using twisted pair wires which (mostly) cancel the magnetic radiation or shielding which contain the radiation to a small area within the cable jacket.

Phone and ethernet wires are twisted pair, cable TV is shielded co-axial (wire within wire or sheath) Power cable, mostly plastic Romex is neither.

Power cable is very "lossy" at higher frequencies it loses a lot of the energy it carries as magnetic radiation, effectively becoming a transmitting antenna. To compensate you hit the power line with a higher level of power, thus even more radiation.

The key to DSL (broadband phone line) is tuning the length of cable between the central office and your DSL modem. It takes a week or so to "tune" your individual phone line, that is, they map the frequencies that the phone line resonate at and avoid using those frequencies.

You can not effectively "tune" a common AC power distribution network. People plug and unplug various devices, each with it's own radio frequency characteristics, add circuits, extension cords, christmas lights, etc. Many of those devices create radio frequency energy of their own which couples back to the power line.

Hope this helps, gotta go eat breakfast now.
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AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Very much so
But, does this leakage happen equally across the EM spectrum? If the internet providers only use certain parts of the EM spectrum would that limit the interference?

Also, I have read some about ultrawideband technology (again in the popular press and not very technically). Is this lack of sheilding/interference a reason to limit ultrawideband technology to very low power application? Or does ultrawideband use so much of the spectrum that each discrete unit would cause very little interference?

Thanks again for the info.
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Syncronaut Seven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. The leakage is wholly unpredictable
Which makes it so hard to tune the network. Each segment of wire in the walls or power cord that you plug has a different resonant frequency primarily related to it's length. At that resonant frequency an amplification effect takes place, effectively radiating the RF energy outward as radio waves.

Another key concept is the ability for a small local signal to overpower a more powerful transmitter miles away. That's how the 1 watt LED display in your alarm clock radio at close range (6" or less) can overpower a 50,000 watt transmitter 10 miles away.

Power line broadband would effectively end shortwave listening in the US (unless your off the grid and miles away from civilization). It would also severely curtail night time AM radio reception. Something this administration would be thrilled with I'm sure. Sort of the way that the Russians tried to jam shortwave, except the jammer would have an antenna that virtually surrounded you, right there in your own home.

Ultrawideband technology over any type of wire is not easy, as losses for a different reason (capacitance losses) are very high with high frequencies over wire. Ultrawideband is best suited for fiber optics and a fiber network could be implemented with the same hassles that brought us cable TV. They'd have to dig up everyones streets and gardens but it's highly do-able.

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Solon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:41 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. Plus, not all houses, even in the same area, have the same wiring...
Aluminum has different electrical properties than copper, but both are used in wiring homes. I could only imagine the nightmare if certain people find out that to use this service, they need the house rewired, assuming its possible at all of course. I remember, back when I was a kid, we got the poor man's version of an intercom unit. There were two units, with only a power cord for each, and they had 3 buttons each, talk, beep, and a release button(talk button locked). All I remember was that it was single plex, don't know the right word, phone communication is full duplex, talk and listen at same time. In other words, if you talked into it, then you couldn't listen to the guy on the other side, and vice versa. Also, it was limited to within the same house, and intereference was severe. Could be a limitation of technology of the time(mid 80's) but it could also be that power lines, both in and out of the house, were never intended to be used to transmit information.
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cthrumatrix Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. MAYBE they have to go this route.... HAARP has an impact on
many things...
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 01:36 AM
Response to Original message
18. Not everyone has well paying jobs as well. Will IBM help with that?
Of course not, they recently offshored 14000 jobs to you-know-where (not the US or Europe...)
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dbt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 06:49 AM
Response to Original message
23. Kick!
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
27. how about just run another shielded line along the power lines?
This is such a stupid pipe dream, our power system is decaying under private ownership as it is.
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BrightKnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #27
31. Running fiber with transmission lines has been done.
They don't appear to be very interested in bringing fiber to the home.
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Gloria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
36. 5/04--FCC Set to End Our Right to Listen to Foreign Broadcasts & More
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 03:02 PM by Gloria
http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/04/05/con04238.html

May 26, 2004
I wrote this article, which was also picked by DW World...

FCC Set to End Our Right to Listen to Foreign Broadcasts . . . and More

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION
by Gloria R. Lalumia

...Shortwave radio is in many ways the last of our untarnished resources. As Americans, we have always been taught and told that it is our freedom that makes us strong and separates us from everybody else. When it comes to news and information, our desire to have the freedom to choose from a wide array of media and media channels is no different.

Shortwave radio represents a cost-effective and easily accessible means for all Americans to get global news straight from the source, a claim that no other technology can make. If this access was denied or impeded in any way, and Americans left with less media choices or channels, then our right to freedom of the press would be unfairly and unacceptably compromised...

--Eton/Grundig Corporation statement on FCC’s Broadband-Over-Powerline Policy, November 14, 2003

* * *

The Bush Administration’s love of all things that pollute is about to take it’s toll on the radio spectrum as the FCC is poised to open the floodgates of broadband transmission via existing power lines. And although I, as a shortwave radio listener, am fearful of losing my access to foreign broadcasts, the ramifications of broadband-over-powerline extend into many other areas of the radio spectrum and communications industries.

What is BPL?

BPL is a technology that allows the transmission of "broadband over power lines." However, the problem is not just in the overhead power lines. If a home user plugs into a BPL modem, then that home can become a source of BPL interference radiation spreading throughout the neighborhood. At this point it seems likely that the system will cause interference that it will destroy the SW bands, ham bands, mobile, emergency bands, and AM radio. DSL lines have already been affected in test areas. There is concern that even military and aircraft communications will be subject to crippling interference.

Once billed as a way to reach inaccessible areas, the fear now is that companies will quickly roll out the technology in big cities within one to two years. President Bush, in a speech on April 21, declared his intent to "clear the underbrush of regulation" and push BPL ahead quickly with BPL across the country by 2007 (excerpt below) 2. The BPL industry is already looking for taxpayer subsidies. (See article #4, below, report on the May 19, 2004 hearing of the Subcommittee on Telecommunications & the Internet.)

Anything in the bands from 2mhz to 80mhz can be affected. Supposedly, companies are able to "notch out" certain bands but this assertion has been questioned. Home filters, if any are effective, have not been mandated. The National Telecommunications and Information Administration of the Commerce Department (http://www.ntia.doc.gov/) has issued a report with warnings about BPL. BPL has been shut down in Japan, UK, Switzerland, Austria, Netherlands, and other countries. But not here in the USA because BPL is viewed, in many circles, as a payoff to the electric power transmission industry.

The Political Stage

In a February 24, 2004 article at Zdnet.com/AnchorDesk, a leading technology/business site, Executive Editor David Coursey states:

"Since last we visited the issue of transmitting the Internet over power lines (the big electric company kind, not the wires in your walls), the Federal Communications Commission, lapdog to the monied interests, has issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), the second step in making broadband over power lines (BPL) a reality.

In a rare moment of governmental clarity, an NPRM is precisely what it seems to be: Advance notice of how the FCC is going to give zillionaires what they want at the expense of us ordinary folks."3

Out in the land of the "ordinary folks" Steve Waldee, retired broadcast consultant, AM-FM transmitter engineer, and audio specialist and a shortwave listener since the early 1950’s, offers excellent, easy-to-understand explanations of the impact of BPL as well as insight into the imprecise language of the FCC proposal which offers very little assurance of protection. As for the politics of the situation, he writes in a May 21, 2004 addendum to his page "Our ‘Take’ on BPL: Broadband Internet over Powerlines" (http://www.home.earthlink.net/~srw-swling/bpl.htm):

"Just found out that Quest has told the FCC that BPL will disrupt DSL service over phone lines in some installations where power service runs near telephone drops. Yet, the FCC has blithely ignored this in favor of BPL.

That makes me smell a BIG RAT. If the goal of the Bush Administration is ‘universal broadband’ then why deploy a service that would actually cause a deterioration of reliability in EXISTING broadband?"

Why indeed??? And what about AM radio and all those Clear Channel stations? Why is the electrical power transmission industry the most favored of all by the Bush Administration? Is this Enron revisited?

The Current Battle

As mentioned above, Quest has already filed complaints about BPL affecting their underground DSL.

Ham operators been fighting via their organization, the ARRL (American Radio Relay League). Their specific concerns extend beyond interference. They also fear that if BPL companies demand more frequencies for transmission, the FCC will take them from the ham frequencies. Another fear is that ham operators, operating within their legal limits, will interfere with BPL users, and that the hams will be the ones to lose. The BPL industry and FCC claim that no hams have been bothered in the various test areas. But the ARRL has found that in these small, selected test areas, NO hams actually lived in the affected areas!

Shortwave listeners will have the toughest time. While the ARRL has mentioned shortwave at times, they are focused on their own concerns. Since shortwave is by nature "free to the masses" without any central organization, they have no lobbying clout. The FCC proposals stipulate that the burden of proving that BPL is causing a problem is on the complainant...so, guess who wins if a shortwave listener suddenly turns on his/her radio and no longer can listen to the BBC?

Polluting the World’s Radio Communications

Both Coursey and Waldee discuss the impact of BPL in the United States on world radio communications. BPL can disrupt foreign broadcasts all over the globe. Coursey in his AnchorDesk piece writes:

"WHY SHOULD YOU CARE about all this? Because BPL could have a negative impact on the entire world of radio communication. Remember what I said earlier about the radio waves flying off into space? Even the low-power signals BPL would employ can, under the right conditions, travel around the globe. That means BPL systems in the United States could cause interference in places far removed from whatever benefit BPL is supposed to provide.

Interference is pollution and, once it starts, can prove impossible to stop. If not properly managed, BPL has the potential to ruin large portions of the shortwave radio spectrum. Like old-growth forests, radio spectrum is precious and for much the same reason: They just aren't making any more of it. What we have needs to be wisely managed for the greatest public benefit.

BPL needs to be watched carefully to make sure a technology we don't really need -- isn't there enough broadband out there already? -- doesn't cause problems we'll never be able to resolve."

A BUZZFLASH GUEST CONTRIBUTION

* * *

Key Information

The ARRL web page devoted to BPL is crammed with information and news stories about BPL. Explore this whole page---industry links, reports, tests, and news stories about the test areas here in the US. This page will offer the reader a clear understanding of the ramifications of BPL.
http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc

* *

This page also has a section of Audio examples of the type of interference BPL causes from the US and overseas tests. I’ve included one easy to use link to audio studies in Japan (uses RealPlayer). The samples are taken from tests run in apartments and houses. Listening to these audio examples are truly "ear-opening."
http://www.jarl.or.jp/English/0-2.htm

* *

The NTIA (National Telecommunications & Information Administration, Dept. of Commerce) and the Subcommittee on Telecommunications & the Internet

The NTIA is the President’s principal advisor on telecom and information policy. Its warnings about BLP are apparently being ignored, which is par for the course.

The last day for comment is June 1.
Direct Link to FCC comment page on BPL
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/ecfs/Upload?hot_docket=1008700826%7C04-37%7CB...

REPORT on the May 19, 2004 hearing from AARL4
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/20/1 /
BPL Industry Official Disputes NTIA Report in Congressional Hearing

Excerpt:

"Responding to a question from New Hampshire Republican Charles Bass, Birnbaum said the BPL industry would be pleased if Congress could provide tax or financial incentives, especially for improving the power grid. He said utilities have not explored the broadband market in the past because some companies had bad experiences and the technology was not feasible five years ago.

Birnbaum suggested, too, that while utilities are slow to act, they will begin to deploy BPL systems over the next year or two. The biggest issue, he said, is the incentive for utilities to invest in broadband technology."

* *

Members, Subcommittee on Telecommunications & the Internet
http://energycommerce.house.gov/108/subcommittees/Telecommunica...

Fred Upton, Michigan
Chairman

Michael Bilirakis, Florida
Cliff Stearns, Florida, Vice Chairman
Paul E. Gillmor, Ohio
Christopher Cox, California
Nathan Deal, Georgia
Ed Whitfield, Kentucky
Barbara Cubin, Wyoming
John Shimkus, Illinois
Heather Wilson, New Mexico
Charles "Chip" Pickering, Mississippi
Vito Fossella, New York
Steve Buyer, Indiana
Charles F. Bass, New Hampshire
Mary Bono, California
Greg Walden, Oregon (his is a ham operator; may be a good contact)
Lee Terry, Nebraska
Joe Barton, Texas (Ex Officio)
Edward J. Markey, Massachusetts, Ranking Member
Albert R. Wynn, Maryland
Karen McCarthy, Missouri
Michael F. Doyle, Pennsylvania
Jim Davis, Florida
Charles A. Gonzalez, Texas
Rick Boucher, Virginia
Edolphus Towns, New York
Bart Gordon, Tennessee
Peter Deutsch, Florida
Bobby L. Rush, Illinois
Anna G. Eshoo, California
Bart Stupak, Michigan
Eliot L. Engel, New York
John D. Dingell, Michigan (Ex Officio)

* * *

CITED ARTICLES

1 Comments on the Federal Communications Commission’s Broadband-Over-Powerline Policy, Etón Corporation, November 14, 2003
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:4SSgByu12bQJ:www.grundigradio.com...

This is the html version of the file http://www.grundigradio.com/bpl/FCCBPLcomments.pdf

Etón Corporation
Comments on the Federal Communications Commission’s
Broadband-Over-Powerline Policy
November 14, 2003

Recently the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) began the process of changing the regulations that govern radio frequency interference. These changes are aimed at paving the way for the FCC to introduce a new technology known as broadband-over-powerline (BPL).

According to the FCC, BPL would bring broadband to "previously unserved communities" and be the catalyst for a "robustly competitive and diversified marketplace" that would lead to a "broadband Nirvana" in America.* While its proposal may be well intentioned, the FCC’s support of this emerging technology threatens the existence of an established technology – Shortwave radio. Shortwave radio technology, though not as cutting-edge and as commercialized as BPL, is important to America because it represents our most basic freedoms guaranteed by the First Amendment.

BPL technology is based on using 2-80 MHz of the radio frequency spectrum to transmit data over existing powerlines. According to the latest research done by the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) and the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), BPL threatens to create so much "noise" in this frequency range that Shortwave radio, the original operator in this frequency spectrum, would be effectively drowned out. Without any proposed plans or remedies by the FCC to safeguard Shortwave broadcasting, BPL poses a real and imminent threat to this
medium.

To the majority of Americans who have never listened to worldband radio, the loss of Shortwave may appear to be acceptable compared to the benefits of faster and expanded internet services.

But to Shortwave enthusiasts and radio users, Shortwave is indispensable for its ability to transmit international broadcasts from around the world. On the surface, this may appear to be only marginally valuable in this day and age of 24/7 news channels on television and internet access. Upon closer inspection however, Shortwave is markedly different from those other mediums and especially significant for its ability to broadcast news and information directly from other countries at no cost or low cost. As Americans, we have become accustomed to receiving our news in pre-packaged sound bites, selected and served by the mainstream media, biased opinions and perspectives mixed in. Shortwave allows its listeners to hear and its broadcasters to report news and information with a clarity and transparency unmatched by most domestic media.

Shortwave radio is in many ways the last of our untarnished resources. As Americans, we have always been taught and told that it is our freedom that makes us strong and separates us from everybody else. When it comes to news and information, our desire to have the freedom to choose from a wide array of media and media channels is no different.

Shortwave radio represents a cost-effective and easily accessible means for all Americans to get global news straight from the source, a claim that no other technology can make. If this access was denied or impeded in any way, and Americans left with less media choices or channels, then our right to freedom of the press would be unfairly and unacceptably compromised.

The FCC recently voted to allow media conglomerates the ability to increase their holdings in television stations and newspapers, another signal that fewer and fewer companies will end up controlling more and more of what we hear, see, and read. Ironically post 9/11, global news is more salient than ever. In today’s political climate, Americans are seeking international news, culture, and perspectives like never before in efforts to better understand the rest of the world.

We need more media choices to quench our thirst for information, not less. Shortwave is not just another vehicle, but arguably one of the best vehicles to bring the perspectives of foreign countries and cultures into our homes easily and inexpensively. At a time when the FCC seems content on letting BPL eclipse Shortwave, its value and significance is brighter than ever.

In fact, Shortwave’s value reaches beyond America’s shores to touch nearly every country in the world. Without a spectrum to operate from, even outbound American Shortwave programming that is currently accessible to millions and millions around the globe will be eerily silent. In short order, the global exchange of thoughts and ideas, the underlying premise of both radio and our right to free speech, will be brought to a screeching halt. To see the potential damage this can have on the world, we only need to study history. In 1989, the Velvet Revolution paved the way for democracy as Communism fell in Czechoslovakia when Václav Havel was elected as President. Havel, a long-standing and outspoken critic of Communism, cited Voice of Free Europe, a Shortwave institution, as one of his sources of strength and inspiration during his struggle for democracy. Though it may be hyperbole to attribute the demise of Communism in Eastern Europe to radio, it is clear that its reach is broad, and its influences deep. It would be a potential foreign policy failure for the United States if Shortwave radio disappeared. If the elixir of Shortwave could help just one country or even one community, then Shortwave’s existence would
be justified by helping bring hope and inspiration, and under the right circumstances, even democracy.

What the FCC is proposing with BPL is not so much poor technology as it is poorly planned technology. In its current form, the social costs of BPL exceed its social benefits. Ubiquitous broadband is a noble goal that FCC should have in its sights on. The issue here is to find a way to apply this technology somewhere or somehow that does not impact Shortwave radio. Isn’t there bandwidth somewhere else in the radio frequency spectrum for BPL to occupy? Since 1994, the FCC has auctioned and sold off hundreds of frequencies for billions of dollars.

Granted, the United States government has generated significant revenue from these sales, but money cannot buy freedom. It is perplexing that the FCC, the landowner of the airwaves, cannot find a plot of frequency for BPL without encroaching the boundaries of Shortwave.

The FCC’s BPL proposal threatens to set this country down a slippery slope where new technology displaces existing technology without regard for its impacts on citizens and society. The FCC needs to find a way to promote BPL while preserving the freedoms of Americans.

Technology should be a tool for society to improve the lives of its people. If and when this promise is broken, then that technology needs to be reevaluated, rethought, or reapplied until it works properly.

* "Reaching Broadband Nirvana", Kathleen Q. Abernathy, FCC Commissioner, United PowerLine Council Annual Conference, September 22, 2003,
(http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DOC-239079A1.doc)

2 Excerpt from Bush’s April 21, 2004 speech
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040426-6.html

President Unveils Tech Initiatives for Energy, Health Care, Internet
Remarks by the President at American Association of Community Colleges Annual Convention
Minneapolis Convention Center
Minneapolis, Minnesota
.....
The third goal is to make sure that we have access to the information that is transforming our economy through broadband technology. I'm talking about broadband technology in every part of our country. I was the governor of Texas for a while. I remember talking about access to information and there was always a group of people saying, that's fine, big cities get it but rural people don't. I'm talking about broadband technology to every corner of our country by the year 2007 with competition shortly thereafter. (Applause.)

Educators understand the great value of broadband technology. I mean, the -- I'm not surprised that people involved in the community college system, when you mention broadband technology nod their heads. It's the flow of information and the flow of knowledge which will help transform America and keep us on the leading edge of change. And we've got to make sure that flow is strong and modern and vibrant. And by the way, we've got to make sure that there's competition for your -- for your demand. We need more than just one provider available for not only community colleges but also for consumers. In our society, the more providers there are, the better the quality will be and the better the pricing mechanism will be.

Central Piedmont Community College in Charlotte is using broadband to conduct classes for students all across their state. You know, one of the interesting opportunities for the community college system is to provide education opportunities for people who work out of their home, for example. And the expansion of broadband technology will mean education literally will head into the living rooms of students. That will even make the system more flexible and more available and more affordable.

Same with health care. Again, if you're from a state where there's a lot of rural people, there's nothing better than to be able to transfer information quickly from a rural doc to a hospital for analysis in order to save lives. It's happening all around our country. The ability to send an x-ray image in seven seconds and have a response back in ten minutes with a preliminary analysis oftentimes will save lives. But you hear us talk about making sure health care is accessible and affordable. One way to do so is to hook up communities and homes to broadband. It's going to be a really good way for us to make sure the health care system works better and the education system works better. And it also is going to be an important way to make sure that we're an innovative society.

Now, the use of broadband has tripled since 2000 from 7 million subscriber lines to 24 million. That's good. But that's way short of the goal for 2007. And so -- by the way, we rank 10th amongst the industrialized world in broadband technology and its availability. That's not good enough for America. Tenth is 10 spots too low as far as I'm concerned. (Applause.)

Broadband technology must be affordable. In order to make sure it gets spread to all corners of the country, it must be affordable. We must not tax broadband access. If you want broadband access throughout the society, Congress must ban taxes on access. (Applause.)

Secondly, a proper role for the government is to clear regulatory hurdles so those who are going to make investments do so. Broadband is going to spread because it's going to make sense for private sector companies to spread it so long as the regulatory burden is reduced -- in other words, so long as policy at the government level encourages people to invest, not discourages investment.

And so here are some smart things to do: One, increase access to federal land for fiberoptic cables and transmission towers. That makes sense. As you're trying to get broadband spread throughout the company, make sure it's easy to build across federal lands. One sure way to hold things up is that the federal lands say, you can't build on us. So how is some guy in remote Wyoming going to get any broadband technology? Regulatory policy has got to be wise and smart as we encourage the spread of this important technology. There needs to be technical standards to make possible new broadband technologies, such as the use of high-speed communication directly over power lines. Power lines were for electricity; power lines can be used for broadband technology. So the technical standards need to be changed to encourage that.

And we need to open up more federally controlled wireless spectrum to auction in free public use, to make wireless broadband more accessible, reliable, and affordable. Listen, one of the technologies that's coming is wireless. And if you're living out in -- I should -- I was going to say Crawford, Texas, but it's not -- maybe not nearly as remote. (Laughter.) How about Terlingua, Texas? There's not a lot of wires out there. But wireless technology is going to change all that so long as government policy makes sense.

And we're going to continue to support the Federal Communications Commission. Michael Powell -- Chairman Michael Powell, under his leadership, his decision to eliminate burdensome regulations on new broadband networks availability to homes. In other words, clearing out the underbrush of regulation, and we'll get the spread of broadband technology, and America will be better for it. (Applause.) ....

3 Why Broadband Over Power Lines Is a Bad Idea
By David Coursey: Executive Editor, AnchorDesk
Thursday, February 26, 2004
http://reviews-zdnet.com.com/4520-7298-5123406.html

Since last we visited the issue of transmitting the Internet over power lines (the big electric company kind, not the wires in your walls), the Federal Communications Commission, lapdog to the monied interests, has issued a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM), the second step in making broadband over power lines (BPL) a reality.
In a rare moment of governmental clarity, an NPRM is precisely what it seems to be: Advance notice of how the FCC is going to give zillionaires what they want at the expense of us ordinary folks. The NPRM follows a Notice of Inquiry that was issued last April and generated more than 5,000 comments, many from angry ham radio operators.
HERE'S THE DEAL: BPL is a technology that uses radio waves, transmitted over power lines, to provide broadband Internet or other data connectivity. The problem with BPL is simple physics: Radio waves like to fly off into space. When they do, interference results. In order to get broadband speeds, BPL uses a large number of frequencies, some of which are capable of traveling literally around the world even on the small transmitter power that BPL systems use.

BPL would operate as an unlicensed radio service under Part 15 of the FCC's rules. This is the same section that allows most of the unlicensed devices used in home and business. All of these devices are supposed to operate in such a way that they don't interfere with licensed radio services.

Among the leaders in the fight against BPL is the amateur radio community. Ham radio operators, including myself, see BPL as a potentially huge source of communications-disrupting interference. The hams have found an ally in the National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA), the Commerce Department agency charged with coordinating the federal government's own radio systems.

The NTIA has warned the FCC that, unless it's carefully regulated, BPL could cause significant interference to government users of shortwave radio frequencies. The NTIA is conducting its own BPL study, though it has not yet been released. Another study, by ARRL, the national organization for amateur radio, is also due to be released in the next few weeks to months.

WHY SHOULD YOU CARE about all this? Because BPL could have a negative impact on the entire world of radio communication. Remember what I said earlier about the radio waves flying off into space? Even the low-power signals BPL would employ can, under the right conditions, travel around the globe. That means BPL systems in the United States could cause interference in places far removed from whatever benefit BPL is supposed to provide.

Interference is pollution and, once it starts, can prove impossible to stop. If not properly managed, BPL has the potential to ruin large portions of the shortwave radio spectrum. Like old-growth forests, radio spectrum is precious and for much the same reason: They just aren't making any more of it. What we have needs to be wisely managed for the greatest public benefit.

BPL needs to be watched carefully to make sure a technology we don't really need--isn't there enough broadband out there already?--doesn't cause problems we'll never be able to resolve.

If you're interested in this issue, please read some of the documents available and make your feelings known to the FCC.

4 BPL Industry Official Disputes NTIA Report in Congressional Hearing
http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2004/05/20/1/

NEWINGTON, CT, May 20, 2004--A BPL industry witness told a House Subcommittee on Telecommunications and the Internet hearing May 19 that the extensive National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) broadband over power line interference study draws "generalized conclusions," some of which are inaccurate. Jay Birnbaum, vice president and general counsel of BPL provider Current Communications Group LLC was among those answering lawmakers' questions during the hearing, "Competition in the Communications Marketplace: How Convergence Is Blurring the Lines Between Voice, Video, and Data Services." ARRL CEO David Sumner said he found it "interesting" that a BPL spokesperson would try to downplay the significance of the NTIA's findings.

"Clearly, the report has the BPL industry worried--as well it should," Sumner said. "Anyone who gets past the introduction and actually reads the body of the NTIA study can only conclude that NTIA's findings are devastating to the case for BPL."

Among other observations, the NTIA acknowledged that BPL signals "unintentionally radiate" from power lines, but said there's "substantial disagreement as to the strength of the emissions and their potential for causing interference to licensed radio systems."

Rep Greg Walden, W7EQI (R-OR).

The subcommittee members questioning Birnbaum included Oregon Republican Greg Walden, W7EQI, one of two amateur licensees in the US House. Walden asked Birnbaum to address the BPL interference issues that the NTIA report and the amateur community have raised.

Birnbaum responded that he thinks interference concerns about BPL are unfounded and that the FCC agrees. BPL emissions from power lines, he asserted, are at very low levels and dissipate very quickly with distance. Current Technologies is field testing a BPL system in Potomac, Maryland, and has a 50-50 partnership with Cinergy to deploy a full-blown BPL system in the Cincinnati area. The Maryland system employs the HomePlug Alliance standard, which notches all HF amateur bands except 60 meters. It uses orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM) technology.

The ARRL documented a visit to the Potomac test area on its Web site. The Potomac site is identified as "Trial Area #1" under "Video showing results of ARRL testing in MD, VA, PA and NY." BPL interference heard outside amateur bands at the Potomac site sounds like severe, irregular pulse-type noise.

Walden also questioned Birnbaum regarding how far away BPL interference might be detected. Birnbaum indicated that while there's disagreement on the issue, it's "literally undetectable" tens of meters away. He said FCC and NTIA engineers have found signal levels too low to measure. He also told Walden that a lot of complaints about BPL are based on outdated data and technology. Walden said he just wants the interference addressed technically--"especially driving under power lines."

The NTIA, which conducted measurements at three different BPL field trial sites, said that while radiated power "decreased with increasing distance," the decay was not always predictable. At one measurement location with a number of BPL devices, the NTIA said, "appreciable BPL signal levels (ie, at least 5 dB higher than ambient noise) were observed beyond 500 meters from the nearest BPL-energized power lines."

A BPL "extractor" on a power line in the Raleigh, North Carolina, area, where Progress Energy and Amperion have partnered to field test a BPL system.

The NTIA study further calculated that interference "is likely" to mobile stations in areas extending to 30 meters and to fixed stations in areas extending to 55 meters from a single BPL device and the power lines to which it's connected. Interference to systems with "low to moderate desired signal levels," such as those common in ham radio, is likely within areas extending to 75 meters for mobiles and 460 meters for fixed stations, the NTIA study said.

Responding to a question from New Hampshire Republican Charles Bass, Birnbaum said the BPL industry would be pleased if Congress could provide tax or financial incentives, especially for improving the power grid. He said utilities have not explored the broadband market in the past because some companies had bad experiences and the technology was not feasible five years ago.

Birnbaum suggested, too, that while utilities are slow to act, they will begin to deploy BPL systems over the next year or two. The biggest issue, he said, is the incentive for utilities to invest in broadband technology.

* * *

Gloria Lalumia is the author of World Media Watch, exclusively available on BuzzFlash.com.

Copyright 2004, Gloria R. Lalumia
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BiggJawn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
40. We're the last to get it. and the LAST to REJECT it.
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 03:12 PM by BiggJawn
It's been either outlawed or voluntarily stopped because of interference to other services in every European country to try it.

this is bullshit snake-oil that was pushed into exisitence in this country because Mikey Powell got a LOT of under the table money for the GOP shoved into his hands while he was head of the FCC.

FACT: BPL does NOT povide an "economical way" to speread DSL to cornfield country. BPL is "Last Mile" technology. First, you have to bring a fiber out to the area where you want to distribute BPL. You can't put the DSL on the power lines and send it 30 miles, doesn't work that way. so, if you have to run 29 miles of fiber already, why not run the last mile as fiber and give the folks out in the boonies REAL speed.

FACT: BPL is effectively RF energy being sent down a distibution system designed and engineered for 60 Hz current. What happens when you impose a 10 Mhz bit-rate signal on a system meant for 60 Hz? it acts like, at best, a LEAKY transmission line, and at WORST, an ANTENNA.

Could "shielding" help? Sure it could. Who's going to pay for it. Glass fiber is a whole butt-load cheaper than sheilded high-voltage wire, though.

"Cheap DSL for the Masses" is a fib. It's NOT cheap, and it's NOT for the masses, it's for the people who developed this solution looking for a problem to make lots of $$$$ off us.

And we think this is a "Good Thing"...
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Trajan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
42. RE: Shielding ... it wont work ....
Edited on Wed Jul-13-05 08:48 PM by Trajan
These cables are in many cases HUGE and bare ....

Shielding requires separation from the primary conductor by a dialectric material; IE an insulator .... such a dialectric would have to withstand the EXTREMELY high potentials which exist on high tension lines .... greater than 50,000 volts .... It could also leave no gaps, which would require a continuous mesh around each cable that would not interact with the primary .... It is a technological nightmare ....

There is NO WAY these could be shielded after the fact without great expense, and most likely unable to EVER shield for RF EMI ..... arcing would occur immediately after powerup of the line .....
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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:34 PM
Response to Original message
43. I'm not sure it's a problem...
...the power lines only run at 60Hz - analog. The cable signal is digital. Even though the broadband signal is a very high frequency, it's a very low signal level - especially compared to the 14.4KV (or so) as it traverses the community before being dropped down (to 110VAC, 220VAC, 440VAC) to a local level.

If just the inherent noise sourrounding it is cause for concern, then the whole idea of wi-fi communites is bogus - which it is surely not.

Bottom line, if an appliance (TV, radio, etc) is getting noisy from it, a small and cheap filter would fix it. The digital signal is consistent enough to filter literally all of it out. Most low level signal noise is analog, fluctuating levels, and out of phase.

Besides, I'm not going negative on this idea as long as AOL/TIME/WARNER/CNN has a monopoly on the whole cable system - which was recently made stronger by the Supreme Court. We should be willing to help promote alternate technologies so we don't get stuck like we have with fossile fuels.

Just my opinion...
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #43
44. Wi-Fi and BPL are different animals
With BPL it's not a matter of filtering appliances at the receiving or transmitting ends, it's the medium itself (the power cables) which are the problem. They act as antennas at HF frequencies and unintentially propagate the RF signals from BPL transmissions.

Wi-fi is UHF wireless (no medium) with output circuits and tuned antennas designed to minimize spurious emissions - BPL is taking a system of cables designed for mains power and stuffing HF RF down them, with scant regard for the resultant interference to existing HF spectrum users (hams, shortwave, aviation, shipping etc - these use analog modes).

On the cable monopoly, I understand your sentiment, however AOL already plans to buy into BPL (see references at post #13 above).

There are many "clean" alternatives to BPL - WiFi is one of them... more info at link below.

http://www2.arrl.org/tis/info/HTML/plc/alternatives.html

BPL is a polluting technology being window dressed as "broadband for the masses".



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DubyaSux Donating Member (366 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. I don't claim to be well versed..
...and I'm sure you know more, but RF isn't really a digital signal. RF (RF = radio frequency) is typically a high frequency analog signal that runs out of phase with the 60V alternating current and at random levels. That's why it's noise. Sometimes it's hard to get rid of (depending on level and frequency)

Noise isn't just frequency, but a random frequency. There is nothing random about a digital signal. The power line cannot become an antenna for a digitial signal no more than it could become an antenna from the other digital and analog crap transmitting data over the air.

But I could be wrong.
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. I'm not a professional RF guy either...
if we are lucky somebody might chime in on your digital vs. analog points. However there are plenty of references to the fact that BPL does in fact result in the power transmission lines acting as an antenna - here are a few references....

"Power lines tend to radiate the HF frequencies just like a giant 'long-wire' antenna," he said. "It is impossible for the BPL provider to filter all HF frequencies, as this would basically kill the technology, so obviously there is going to be some frequencies radiated from the power lines to be received by nearby receivers.
...
Dunstan labeled proponents of BPL as the modern version of carpet baggers: "They know it causes interference."

http://www.pcworld.idg.com.au/index.php/id;650745972;fp;2;fpid;1


Essentially the power lines - while being used as a transmission method for the Internet signal - can act like a big antenna, radiating the signal in the area where the power lines are. This can have an impact on amateur radio operators in the area, as well as other communications in the 30-Mhz area and below. Interference is possible in the VHF spectrum running between 140 and 180 Mhz when BPL isn't installed properly by the utility or whatever partner company they select.

http://www.networkingsmallbusiness.com/columnists/2005/013105nutter.html


Long high voltage earth return distribution lines, as used in remote Australia, are more akin to a terminated long wire antenna than an RF transmission line.

http://homepages.ihug.com.au/~vk5vka/vk2dkn.htm

As far as I can tell, the fact of the BPL being propagated via the transmission lines is not in question at all. The question is whether or not sufficient suppression of the spurious emissions is possible with BPL installations to prevent extensive RF pollution to the HF spectrum. The answer to this question, from virtually every study carried out to date, seems to be "NO".

Thanks for keeping the discussion alive. I agree with you that cable monopoly is an issue. I just don't think trashing the HF spectrum is the answer, particularly when there are reasonably viable alternatives.
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anotherdrew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 01:28 AM
Response to Original message
48. Kids, don't do BPL, umkay? 'cause it's bad, umkay?
Maybe time for a scare campaign... "with BPL, RIAA will be able to actually electrocute file sharers" "with BPL, the internet can KILL" and no ham radio operator will be able to call for help. It's worst than just that though, and who knows what we're going to find out about EM "pollution" over the next decade?
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oioioi Donating Member (320 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 04:20 AM
Response to Reply #48
49. RF Spectrum is a PUBLIC resource
Yielding to BPL is selling HF spectrum to subsidise the cost structure of US utility companies.

Nobody is using hyperbole to make this point.

What they *are* saying:

- BPL is a poor choice of technology for broadband delivery.

- The FCC is ignoring its responsibility to protect existing public RF spectrum against encroachment

- Serving the interests of big business is apparently far more important to the FCC Chairman than accepting the conclusions of many independent studies regarding harmful interference caused by the technology underlying BPL.

Selling MF and VHF/UHF spectrum for commercial RF use is one thing, but the FCC is not suggesting that the BPL companies pay for the HF spectrum they would be polluting. Why trash a natural public resource for profit when there are viable alternatives?

If the same rules on spectrum sale were applied for the HF spectrum in question for BPL as are applied to other commerical RF users, BPL would not be economically viable at all.
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