Stryker force loads gear for Iraq voyage

[bemildred]

TACOMA -- The Army's faster and more versatile new Stryker brigade,
developed at Fort Lewis, yesterday began loading more than 2,500
combat vehicles and equipment aboard cavernous ships bound for a
monthlong voyage to Iraq.

more

[Dr Fate]

1. What is the "Coalition of the Willing" sending in kind?

I remember when Bush/media SWORE to us that we has a "Coalition of the Willing" that would have our back during this conflict, and that we indeed did have "world support" from places such as "New Europe"...

Id like to know if they are paying for this immoblization, or if US tax payers are...

[LittleApple81]

2. I don't think that they have taken care of all the problems.

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/962548.asp?0cl=c1

Faulty Armor?
By John Barry
NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE


The Army’s prized Stryker wheeled troop carrier is supposed to spearhead America’s lighter, go-anywhere-fast force. But NEWSWEEK has learned that the vehicles may be flawed—and that the military has known about the problem for months

more...

[BiggJawn]

7. Is this that POS that has armour so thin...

..That they built a "cage" around the vehicle to detonate incoming rounds before they hit the skin?

And we're sending our sons, brothers and fathers out in thes things to get RPG's lobbed at them?

Who's the contractor? Halliburton?

[ConcernedCanuk]

3. I Dunno - seems like too little, too late -

>>> More from the Article:

Among them are about 300 of the new Stryker vehicles for which the unit is nicknamed, but whose usefulness and safety were questioned last month after a third of their ceramic armor was found to be defective in live-fire tests.

/snip/

General Dynamics Land Systems, which built the Strykers, rushed several teams of experts to Fort Lewis to strengthen the vehicles within a month after tests at Aberdeen Proving Ground in Maryland revealed that several different tile types could not stop small-arms fire slightly larger than a .50-caliber bullet.

The Strykers, at $1.5 million each, are the Army's first new combat vehicles in 20 years. Swift and smooth riding with better mileage than any tactical armored vehicle, they can carry 11 soldiers each and feature personal computers capable of "seeing" friend and foe.

None of the soldiers who will use them, who helped create them and trained in every kind of scenario from close combat to major engagements, voiced a hint of a concern with the Strykers.

:wtf: ( the guys going are NOT the guys trained on them - is that how that reads?)

For the first time, the Army has fully integrated combined arms at the company level -- a coming together, for example, of soldiers proficient in mortars, artillery, armor and infantry into the smaller unit. And most of this brigade has been together since its inception three years ago.

;wtf: :wtf:

Shouldn't these guys been already over there right after Baghdad "fell" ???

Still fumblin' around - and will be for years to come I figure

(sigh)

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. This will enable the Crusaders to murder many more Iraqis

All loyal Americans will obey the bush decree and be upbeat and positive.

[Voltaire99]

12. Those dead Iraqis will greet them with flowers and parades!

Democracy, however, will require much learning by the dead Iraqis at our feet. Maybe a little Christianity and $5.15/hr will help them understand!

[DuctapeFatwa]

19. LOL voltaire!

upbeat!
positive!

:toast:

[mike_c]

5. what's really striking about this (no pun intended)...

...is that the Army feels it necessary to send one of its most advanced tactical brigades to help suppress a loosely organized irregular force that relies largely on old Soviet weaponry and home-made remote-control mines.

[atreides1]

8. The Problem

Is that both Stryker Brigades, were taken from their parent units. One brigade comes from the 2nd ID in South Korea, and the other brigade comes from the 25ID in Hawaii.

Here's the punchline, this means that the 2ND ID is short one infantry
brigade, as is the 25TH ID, which happens to be the back up division for the 2ND ID. On top of that another brigade sized element of the 25TH ID is scheduled to be sent to Afghanistan.

This means that the 25TH will be short two of its combat brigades, and no offense to the Hawaii National Guard, or Army Reserve, but they
pretty much bite as worth while units.

And one other funny thing, the main gun on the Stryker can only be fired directly to the front, or rear. Attempting to fire it to the right or the left might result in the vehicle being knocked over.

[bemildred]

9. You don't suppose this has anything to do with the

decision to consider promising not to attack N. Korea:

http://www.democraticunderground.org/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=160691

[atreides1]

22. It Might

But when has this administration been truthful. Remember Germany and Russia signed a non-agression pact too, that was so that the Germans could concentrate on Western Europe, without fear of an attack from the Soviets.

But Hitler's plan was to invade Russia as soon as Western Europe had been conquered. Could this be history repeating itself.

I don't think that the North Koreans are buying it. They will continue
to stall so that they can keep building their nuclear weapons. By the time any agreement is on paper, the US won't be able to do anything to
stop the North.

[bemildred]

6. They are being thrown into the breach, so to speak.

I believe these vehicles have actual tires, not treads.

I wonder how they will do when a improvised explosive device
(IED) goes off under them.

I have been party to situations where experts are flown in at
great expense on short notice to fix things that should not be
broken, I have been such an "expert", and it does not fill me
with confidence.

I think this is Rummy's notional ace-in-the-hole, if he lasts
that long.

The fellows riding in them do have my sympathies, I hope its not
as bad as I think.

[LibertyorDeath]

10. Well hell this should solve everything.

Relax everything's under control. "Stryker Force" to the rescue.

[tlb]

11. I am very skeptical of Stryker as a system.

Good overview of this boondoggle can be found at

http://militarycorruption.com/stryker.htm


I'd post highlights but it is a right-click dissabled site.

[TexasPatriot]

14. these things are POS

military types i know have been griping about these things for a while now... but what do you expect when one of the primary purposes of the vehicle was better gas milage (at the expense of troop protection).

Pray for those boys - they're going to need it.

[ConcernedCanuk]

15. ARMY’S NEW CAR IS A “LEMON” STRYKER PROGRAM - A BOONDOGGLE

. . OH - tlb - Windows can't "fight" DOS(Keboard} Commands !!

- Ctrl-A "selects" the whole text/whatever
- Ctrl-C "Copies to the clipbard"
- Open up Notepad for Unformatted text MS Word if you want it "All"
- Ctrl-V - to Paste

and then the rest is normal select/copy and paste !

Anyhoo - From the Article:

THE ARMY’S NEW CAR IS A “LEMON”
STRYKER PROGRAM - A BOONDOGGLE
SHINSEKI AND HEEBNER CRAWL IN
BED WITH GENERAL DYNAMICS
By LONNIE T. SHOULTZ


The M113A3’s could have been refurbished, had digital communications installed, and been field-tested for less than $400,000 each. The wheeled “Stryker” vehicle that Shinseki ultimately approved for purchase is a knockoff of the Swiss MOWAG design, manufactured mainly in Canada (a clear violation of the Berry Amendment that requires the Department of Defense to “Buy American”), costs the U.S. taxpayers $2.8 million dollars each, and is not as survivable as the tracked M113s already in the U.S. Army inventory.

<snip>


Before we leave the subject of Congressional interference in war fighting, the congressman from Alabama’s 3rd District that includes Anniston, went to the Army Depot there, where General Dynamics rents some space to do the final assembly of the Stryker. Rep. Mike Rogers arrived at the Depot full of “fire and fury” and with the press corps in tow. The congressman asked about some rumors he had heard about the Stryker, that only men under five feet five inches tall could get into one. It took me a week of pouring over fact sheets, briefings and other data to even find a reference to the “five feet, five inches” misunderstood quote.
In a Powerpoint presentation prepared by the contractor, General Dynamics, the statement is printed that “due to the amount of electronic gear” the Army wanted stuffed into the operating area of the Stryker, the driver and vehicle commander would have to be drawn from 1-5% of adult men to fit comfortably in the cab area of the vehicle. I don’t know if that is the figure the congressman misinterpreted as only an army of dwarfs being able to ride in the vehicles, but it is the only reference I found to a size limitation for the Stryker. That crew size limitation will also cover the gunners and the main gun operators if that system is ever built by General Dynamics as it contracted to do. Other questions asked by Congressman Rogers were equally as stupid and were asked, of all people, of the contractor’s General Dynamic’s site manager!

MORE

Worth the READ !

- your TAX Dollars at Work/Play

[tlb]

17. Highly obliged for the tip.

Many thanks, that will be useful :)

[tabasco]

21. The M113A3's are definitely better.

And can survive RPGs. But when the contractors start crying for money like a screaming baby, the republicans forget about the best for the troops.

[tlb]

24. Stryker is the legacy of the last administration

so I am not sure I would make this simply yet one more republican bashing talking point. This trivializes the larger issue of the pentagon culture that Gen Shineski represents that produced this boondoggle.

I am no kneejerk opponent of any new military system just because it is military or some contractor makes a profit. I would though like to think it is something that ultimatley strengthens our nation and serves the troops who will man it. Stryker seems to offer neither hope.

All Stryker really seems to have going for it is that it allowed Gen. Shemnski to "make his mark" in the services. Not really a good backround for an upcoming junior senator from Hawaii.

[tabasco]

25. General Dynamics does have fans in both parties

Especially in the states where these vehicles will be based. I can't believe they are using our troops as guinea pigs to test this thing out in urban combat. That is on THIS administration.

[agincourt]

26. It's fast & mobile

but it's no substitute for a tank when the other guy actually shoots back.

[Voltaire99]

13. Is the real destination Iraq?

Iran? Syria?

[Noordam]

16. Online Mail Call

" Alarmed readers wrote to NEWSWEEK in response to Barry’s story, many of them highly informed on military technology. “Your article on the Stryker was great,” wrote a reader from Baltimore. “The Stryker program has many, many, many more problems than this armor problem … The Stryker will kill a lot of soldiers in Iraq.” A Winston-Salem, N.C., reader, however, worried that by drawing attention to flaws in a soon to be unveiled weapon, NEWSWEEK was unwittingly helping Iraqi resistance fighters. “The idea that the U.S. government would try to keep this secret is shocking,” he wrote sarcastically. “Why wouldn’t they want the world to know the weaknesses of our newest weapons It’s not like they were trying to fix the problem or anything"

http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/966025.asp

[DoYouEverWonder]

18. Is this the one, with the big fat tires

So this is the latest, greatest armored vehicle and they didn't even protect the tires? My kid could build a stronger vehicle out of Legos, give me a break.

[TheLastMohican]

27. Looks like Russian BTR-90

and it is known for its acronym "infantry's communal grave".



Did you notice how soldiers always ride on top of the vehicle when travelling in convoys? That's because in case of ambush you have a 50% chance of survival if you are riding on top. If you are inside and an RPG hits the vehicle the crew and all the infantry inside are just burned toasts. Hard lessons learned from Afganistan and Chechnya.:(

[Mari333]

20. and they are sending my sons unit to the Sinai

a bunch of National Guardsmen...and some of his unit to a camp in Indiana..wtf...
Its long overdue for ME to hear the Bush admin accede DEFEAT, bring all the troops home, and beg the Un to take over.....LONG overdue...LONG overdue!!!

[reprobate]

23. Is it true the original designer of this fubar was Artie Johnson?

And the inspiration was his tricycle?

So the defense contractors wanted more profit and the thing won't protect the troops. That's just business as usual.

But the fact that if the main gun was fired to the side the hole thing will be knocked over? What is this, General Dynamics version of cow tipping?

And the sheeple just go on munching their grass in their comfy pastures and whatching survivor. And the troops in their new armored hulk will die. But no one will notice cause the american treasonous media will say not one word about it.

Just business as usual. Canada is looking better and better. This country will implode before long, and I want to stay out of range of the blast effects.